Nathan Patterson - The Athletic

strider said:
That's riskier than it sounds on paper.

The only thing I ever remember John Brown saying about our youths when he was in charge of them that I agreed with is that to get chances in and around the squad, they need to be better than the players who are there. The experience of guys like Murphy and Docherty will be valuable even if they are just playing a handful of games.

That's the safer approach in the eyes of a manager. It also allows us to get youngsters out on loan and playing regularly as youth and reserve football isn't enough, which is of far more benefit than hanging around filling squad places with us.
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Couldn't agree more with this.

There are intangibles that the likes of Halliday and Murphy bring to a dressing room that can't be quantified. I was lucky enough to go away with a Champions League club on one of their European games earlier this year and it's only when you're up close with the team you see how hierarchy works and how different the "men" behave compared to the younger lads. It's a nice idea in theory, but I don't think it's feasible for a winning Rangers to have a paper-thin squad buttressed with youngsters who may or may not be good enough.
 
LiviLoyal said:
Glad to hear Patterson is close to signing up till 2022. If Leon King goes down south then all the best to him with his career, but I won’t lose any sleep over it. If he was a big Rangers fan, he wouldn’t be away down south at this stage (see Patterson for proof).

All I ever wanted to do as a child was play for Rangers. No amount of money from United/Chelsea etc would have taken me down south before I realised that dream if I was as highly rated as these boys are. Unfortunately, these situations show who is in the game to fulfil their dreams and make very good money and who’s in it to purely make money.

I’m not having a go at Leon King or Billy Gilmour for that matter btw, if King does go down south, it’s just my views on youngsters and their desires in this day and age.
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see Gilmour for proof
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Couldn't agree more with this.

There are intangibles that the likes of Halliday and Murphy bring to a dressing room that can't be quantified. I was lucky enough to go away with a Champions League club on one of their European games earlier this year and it's only when you're up close with the team you see how hierarchy works and how different the "men" behave compared to the younger lads. It's a nice idea in theory, but I don't think it's feasible for a winning Rangers to have a paper-thin squad buttressed with youngsters who may or may not be good enough.
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If these intangibles cannot be quantified, how can we be sure that the intangibles that these two examples bring are any good?

What is it about Andy Halliday and Jamie Murphy that contribute to a successful team? And how do we know that Nathan Patterson and Josh McPake do not have those same qualities?

In any case, part of the Academy upbringing is installing these intangibles into the kids.
 
elfideldo said:
Of course there is
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you seem an avid follower of the youth team in your opinion would you want your son to sign for the club or take an eye watering contract from abroad or south of the border

why would you want your son to stay or why would you want him to leave honest answer would be appreciated as some think being a big fan is the reason to stay
 
Did we not benefit with NYC with the cross border compensation? If we are losing players this way I hope the club are looking at who we could pick up, if we can offer a better route to first team football .
 
Big Buff said:
I'm not sure I agree that it's riskier tbh.

Between Polster (206), King (69, nice), Halliday (449), Docherty (171) and Murphy (53), there are 948 minutes between them, including friendlies. In the league, that number drops spectacularly (26, 21, 135, ZERO, 53) for a total of minutes across twelve league games. If you project that forward, you're talking about a total of 744 minutes across the season in the league, or 20 minutes a game.

What's the bigger risk, that our league results suffer because we play one of our young kids for 20 minutes a game (bearing in mind that pretty much all of the opportunity will come in games that we're comfortably ahead), or that we risk losing these young prospects altogether and never developing them because they don't have a pathway?

To me, the risk of losing the kids completely is a much bigger risk than us losing a game we're two goals up in because we subbed on a youngster.

Even if Murphy and Docherty are better than the youths right now, if you give the kids time in the first team they will eventually become better than those players. And if you have a really good prospect that you just can't find the time in the team for, that's the player you loan out.
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What develops a young player more though? 5 or 10 games with us, or 40+ at a lower level a season?

The accepted wisdom is the latter, it would seem. So if we're serious about making our young players as good as they can be, keeping them around to pad out the squad is the wrong choice.
 
strider said:
What develops a young player more though? 5 or 10 games with us, or 40+ at a lower level a season?

The accepted wisdom is the latter, it would seem. So if we're serious about making our young players as good as they can be, keeping them around to pad out the squad is the wrong choice.
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starting line up today how does that encourage talent to sign

Fod
Tav Edmunsson Halliday Goldson
Polster King Barjonas
Murphy Defoe Ojo
 
Yankeeger said:
starting line up today how does that encourage talent to sign

Fod
Tav Edmunsson Halliday Goldson
Polster King Barjonas
Murphy Defoe Ojo
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They're all in the 1st team squad mate.

The game has been arranged to give them needed game time.

What's wrong with that?
 
Good, should be doing this for quite a few positions starting next season. In the winter we should be sending King back to Leicester and bumping Docherty and Barjonas up the order as well
 
PortoyMortoy said:
Good, should be doing this for quite a few positions starting next season. In the winter we should be sending King back to Leicester and bumping Docherty and Barjonas up the order as well
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King will offer more than Docherty from now to the end of the season, Docherty isn't the standard required
 
ID10 said:
Unfortunately as much as it’s good news about Patterson, Leon King (who’s an amazing prospect at 15) is being seriously pursued by Chelsea and Man City which means funny money etc

Club are bracing themselves to lose him unfortunately

Can’t blame the lad as deals being discussed are absolutely eye watering and that’s football these days

Hopefully we can persuade him but fair to say we are up against it
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Cheers for posting, although annoyingly you're always pretty accurate so not good news in this case
 
strider said:
What develops a young player more though? 5 or 10 games with us, or 40+ at a lower level a season?

The accepted wisdom is the latter, it would seem. So if we're serious about making our young players as good as they can be, keeping them around to pad out the squad is the wrong choice.
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Doesn’t change anything about whether there’s value in keeping players who clearly aren’t good enough around the squad just in case were devastated by an injury crisis that will never occur.
 
StuartF97 said:
King will offer more than Docherty from now to the end of the season, Docherty isn't the standard required
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Andy King's 70 minutes of football since he got up here has really made a big impact, the fact that a guy like him has hardly been able to get on the pitch suggests he's not "up to the standard" either. He'll be on a bigger wage than Docherty while Docherty still has room to develop. It's a no brainer to send King back
 
PortoyMortoy said:
Andy King's 70 minutes of football since he got up here has really made a big impact, the fact that a guy like him has hardly been able to get on the pitch suggests he's not "up to the standard" either. He'll be on a bigger wage than Docherty while Docherty still has room to develop. It's a no brainer to send King back
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Greg Docherty's inability to even get on the bench suggests he doesn't have enough in him to develop into a Rangers player. Too technically limited, Andy King is a proven winner and has done stuff in his career Doc will only dream of
 
There's been an update to the story this morning, insisting Rangers are confident they're getting much closer to an agreement.
 
I can see both sides. These lads won't reach full potential unless they play, and some of the squad players we have are clearly not trusted and won't feature. There is clearly no harm in promoting (perhaps next season) someone as a deputy to Tav, or as back up in midfield.

BUT we also have to ensure that quality won't drop off and so it would need to be a select few players, and used sparingly. We can't bring in 10-15 kids and slash wage bill.

Is there no way we could investigate making the loan system more productive? Foreign, more technical clubs perhaps? British football is mostly bang/clatter, especially when a team is desperate for points.
 
StuartF97 said:
Greg Docherty's inability to even get on the bench suggests he doesn't have enough in him to develop into a Rangers player. Too technically limited, Andy King is a proven winner and has done stuff in his career Doc will only dream of
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Couldn't care less what he's done in the past, in 2019 almost 2020 he's done nothing to suggest he's a particularly good footballer. He hasn't been in the match day squad since the loss to Young Boys 6 weeks ago. There's zero reason for a 31 year old on loan who's played 70 minutes for us since joining to be given opportunities over guys like Docherty or Barjonas when they have room to actually grow as players whether they take it with both hands or not it's silly to block even the opportunity for them
 
The problem with the loan system is that just about every football club out there is inherently unstable.

Managers are never more than a few weeks away from the sack.

If we could find a stable club to use as a feeder, we’d be laughing. But there are no obvious contenders in the Championship.
 
Big Buff said:
The problem with the loan system is that just about every football club out there is inherently unstable.

Managers are never more than a few weeks away from the sack.

If we could find a stable club to use as a feeder, we’d be laughing. But there are no obvious contenders in the Championship.
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Exactly. A lot of English clubs outwith EPL need fast results and have disgruntled fans. They also 'hit it long' a lot...a tough environment.
 
Yankeeger said:
you seem an avid follower of the youth team in your opinion would you want your son to sign for the club or take an eye watering contract from abroad or south of the border

why would you want your son to stay or why would you want him to leave honest answer would be appreciated as some think being a big fan is the reason to stay
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Its a heart and head question

I don't have a son, but if I did and was in that situation. My heart would say sign for Rangers, I would expect he would be as much of a Rangers fan as me and would have the same difficult decision.

My head would say take the eye watering contract and be set for life, you can always come back and live your dream when you are financially secure.
 
elfideldo said:
Its a heart and head question

I don't have a son, but if I did and was in that situation. My heart would say sign for Rangers, I would expect he would be as much of a Rangers fan as me and would have the same difficult decision.

My head would say take the eye watering contract and be set for life, you can always come back and live your dream when you are financially secure.
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Appreciate reply chief
 
Undoubtedly the worst thing about Leon King leaving us would be that we never got a chance to make up chants for him.

Circle of Life at Ibrox? Heck yeah brother
 
Big Buff said:
Doesn’t change anything about whether there’s value in keeping players who clearly aren’t good enough around the squad just in case were devastated by an injury crisis that will never occur.
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"That will never occur"

We've seen them before.

So let's hope you've not jinxed it!
 
strider said:
"That will never occur"

We've seen them before.

So let's hope you've not jinxed it!
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Mate, if we get an injury crisis that takes out our top five wingers and results in us having to play Jamie Murphy for an extended period of time, then either:
a) throw in the towel because our season is fucked anyway. You're not winning a league playing your fifth choice winger for a lot of games
b) redesign your tactical system to play without wingers
 
Laudrup1 said:
It's good to see us making this move to using the youth players instead of paying a higher wage to the likes of Flanagan to be nothing more than back up.

We could lose 5 guys from the 1st team squad and not really notice them gone when we could put the likes of Mayo, Barjonas and Patterson in to the matchday squad even if they're not going to feature in the 18.

Halliday, Polster, Flanagan, Andy King and Docherty really aren't required at this stage. Even if they're on £4k a week each, that's 20k that could be used from a serious first team starter and all their positions can be taken up by three or four youth products.
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I'd like to see more of it too, but the Rangers fans are so unforgiving that I fear we could ruin a few careers by throwing the youngsters to the wolves!
 
ID10 said:
Unfortunately as much as it’s good news about Patterson, Leon King (who’s an amazing prospect at 15) is being seriously pursued by Chelsea and Man City which means funny money etc

Club are bracing themselves to lose him unfortunately

Can’t blame the lad as deals being discussed are absolutely eye watering and that’s football these days

Hopefully we can persuade him but fair to say we are up against it
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That’s not the greatest news, ID. Hopefully the boys heart leads him to stay with Rangers.
 
ID10 said:
Unfortunately as much as it’s good news about Patterson, Leon King (who’s an amazing prospect at 15) is being seriously pursued by Chelsea and Man City which means funny money etc

Club are bracing themselves to lose him unfortunately

Can’t blame the lad as deals being discussed are absolutely eye watering and that’s football these days

Hopefully we can persuade him but fair to say we are up against it
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Thanks for the update.

In this instance sad to say you are normally spot on with your updates and like Billy it seems we, the Rangers support, have to suffer the lose of a top talent once more with Leon King. I was hoping the SG factor might sway things in our favour but when it comes down to it, money talks.
 
PortoyMortoy said:
Could see Flanagan maybe getting one just because he can play either side but Polster has just been a waste of money, nothing against him because he's hardly had a chance but no way he gets a new deal
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I'll disagree with Flanagan being able to play either side, he's a man down in possession when on the left.
 
barrheadbear said:
Thanks for the update.

In this instance sad to say you are normally spot on with your updates and like Billy it seems we, the Rangers support, have to suffer the lose of a top talent once more with Leon King. I was hoping the SG factor might sway things in our favour but when it comes down to it, money talks.
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This SG factor what is it because it looks like he has no interest in playing youth or even having them on the bench
 
PortoyMortoy said:
Andy King's 70 minutes of football since he got up here has really made a big impact, the fact that a guy like him has hardly been able to get on the pitch suggests he's not "up to the standard" either. He'll be on a bigger wage than Docherty while Docherty still has room to develop. It's a no brainer to send King back
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Andy King has an EPL medal and 50 caps for Wales behind him. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Doc could reach that level.

I think the fact King can't get near the team shows how strong we are, rather than anything else.
 
robroy72 said:
I'd like to see more of it too, but the Rangers fans are so unforgiving that I fear we could ruin a few careers by throwing the youngsters to the wolves!
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We need a change of culture across the whole fans. Signing prospects and younger players will be the way the club does it's business. We need to get behind that and give younger players and new players an opportunity.
 
Necro said:
Patterson and Kelly are two with potential to become regulars for us.

Kai Kennedy is really talented too, I just hope we do actually give them all a chance soon
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Kennedy was outstanding on Saturday, but I think it's too soon for him because of his size. The hammer throwers would destroy the boy.
 
Really liked the look of Patterson on Saturday before he went off injured.

Good news if he's signing a new deal.
 
Necro said:
I'll disagree with Flanagan being able to play either side, he's a man down in possession when on the left.
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Of course but he's also good defensively. All im saying is i wont be upset nor surprised if he's given another year or two on his deal
 
GovanFront4 said:
Andy King has an EPL medal and 50 caps for Wales behind him. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Doc could reach that level.

I think the fact King can't get near the team shows how strong we are, rather than anything else.
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It's not that Docherty could achieve those things, it's a matter of who is better right now and also who benefits us more long term, the fact that King despite having 50 caps and mostly coming off the bench for a PL winning side only has played 70 minutes for us suggests he's actually not that good, there's been times when neither Kamara or Aribo have been firing and he still couldn't break into the team. If neither are going to play very often there's no reason the much younger player that is actually ours should be getting kicked to the curb over a player on loan
 
ID10 said:
We aren’t out of it yet, but with these teams hovering we are fearing the worst

we will see what happens

There’s going to be a lot of deadwood heading out in January and the summer, as many as 8-10 ear marked for the exit door

They won’t be replaced like for like, so we will see if that opens up space and persuades the youngsters there is a pathway
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From what I’ve heard he wants to stay at Rangers. Has big ambitions for his career with us.
 
Tommy WATP said:
From what I’ve heard he wants to stay at Rangers. Has big ambitions for his career with us.
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It's easy to say that until the contract offer from Man City pledging thousands of pounds a week is in front of you.

Hope he stays but we should expect to lose him.
 
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