Need to play loan signings is killing the team.

[Its-Sebo]

Does anyone know for a fact if we HAVE to play them or is it pure conjecture?

Nobody knows fück all mate, as has been established with this same thread with these same posters nearly every other week, so ignore the guys stating anything as fact.

The only thing we know is that Liverpool sometimes have loan clauses that are based on appearances over the season. Rather than the typical loan-fee for loanee's, Liverpool appear to run a system where the loan fee is reduced the more a player gets game time, obviously to offset the lack of development if a player doesn't play.

The example that's used in these threads is Bristol paying a bank-balance shattering £200k for Ryan Kent based on only have 11 appearances (keep in mind Kent & Ejaria have both player 2-3x this already, including European experience – Liverpool will be fücking delighted).

From that, a couple of posters extrapolate the theory that Gerrard picks his line-ups based on the fee's (that might or might not be part of the contract) rather than merit. Ultimately, he's picking what might be a worse team, risking his own job and reputation, to save the club at most a couple hundred K, if anything at all.

The argument falls apart in so many areas it's laughable, yet some guys hang on to it (since the first game of the season) and spit it out as fact.

 

[CaptainObjective]

You 'caught on' in our first game of the season, and like a dog who's determined to keep sniffing its arsehole, you keep finding shîte.

'Most folk have caught on' – utter pîsh Just because you repeat it ad infinitum and get the odd positive response doesn't make it true.

Where was Worrall vs. Aberdeen and Hearts if we're forced to play him? You keep ignoring that one. Why didn't Ejaria and Coulibaly start if we're forced to play them? You keep ignoring that one too. Where is Sadiq? Or does it only apply to the ones you want?

There's been multiple threads appearing recently asking the same question. Everyone is catching on now. Never once did anyone state they HAVE to start every game, but make no mistake about it they WILL be given plenty playing time. Worrall was hopeless today yet he's a shoe in to start on Thursday. Get yer head out of the sand for crying out loud.

 

[Konkey Dong]

I have to agree with you.

I thought the rumour of the loan players having to play was a lot of shite, but it becomes more obvious each week we are being forced to play these players.

I don’t believe Gerrard would constantly play Worrall, Ejaria and Coulibaly if it wasn’t for these loan deals. They have been nothing short of diabolical these past few months.

Only one of those players started today having been left on the bench for recent games. Kinda blows your idiotic theory out the water

 

[Its-Sebo]

There's been multiple threads appearing recently asking the same question. Everyone is catching on now. Never once did anyone state they HAVE to start every game, but make no mistake about it they WILL be given plenty playing time. Worrall was hopeless today yet he's a shoe in to start on Thursday. Get yer head out of the sand for crying out loud.

'Everyone is catching on' – once again, making stuff up. I've yet to get my head around you ignoring facts and common sense in favour of this theory.

Even in this post, you're contradicting yourself. Worrall doesn't HAVE to play yet he's shoo-in even if he's played shîte – does he have to play or not?

We can potentially bank a lot of money on Thursday if we progress. A lot, lot more than the meagre fee that we might or might not have to pay on loan fee's. But yes, you're absolutely right, Gerrard is going to risk that and knowingly play inferior players so he doesn't run the risk of paying a few 100k loan fee. Everyone is catching on.

 

[Its-Sebo]

Only one of those players started today having been left on the bench for recent games. Kinda blows your idiotic theory out the water

His theory is being held together by chewing gum and spit at this point, mate, the guy doesn't deal in common sense. Watch as his goalposts shift to suit the circumstances.

 

[GersFanHutch]

Nobody knows fück all mate, as has been established with this same thread with these same posters nearly every other week, so ignore the guys stating anything as fact.

The only thing we know is that Liverpool sometimes have loan clauses that are based on appearances over the season. Rather than the typical loan-fee for loanee's, Liverpool appear to run a system where the loan fee is reduced the more a player gets game time, obviously to offset the lack of development if a player doesn't play.

The example that's used in these threads is Bristol paying a bank-balance shattering £200k for Ryan Kent based on only have 11 appearances (keep in mind Kent & Ejaria have both player 2-3x this already, including European experience – Liverpool will be fücking delighted).

From that, a couple of posters extrapolate the theory that Gerrard picks his line-ups based on the fee's (that might or might not be part of the contract) rather than merit. Ultimately, he's picking what might be a worse team, risking his own job and reputation, to save the club at most a couple hundred K, if anything at all.

The argument falls apart in so many areas it's laughable, yet some guys hang on to it (since the first game of the season) and spit it out as fact.

Agreed. It’s highly unlikely that the club board and management would let relatively small financial implications have an influence on footballing decisions. That’s if these fees are even in place. I don’t believe for a second that Gerrard is picking the team based on anything other than what he sees on the pitch. A lot of people are just pushing this theory based on nothing but conjecture and unfortunately it’s grown arms and legs.

I also think a lot of fans are just trying to find a straightforward reason for poor results, instead of admitting that there are a number of issues with the team at the moment. The loanees and “tinkering” seem like the target at the moment, despite the reality being much more complicated.

 

[Kirbys House]

There's been multiple threads appearing recently asking the same question. Everyone is catching on now. Never once did anyone state they HAVE to start every game, but make no mistake about it they WILL be given plenty playing time. Worrall was hopeless today yet he's a shoe in to start on Thursday. Get yer head out of the sand for crying out loud.

Are they aye? Or are you just completely making that up to suit your argument?

 

[GOLEADOR]

Am I right in saying Worrall has played in every European game since we signed him? Pretty sure he made his debut vs Villarreal away.

He’s playing on Thursday night, no doubt about it.

 

[BrooklynBlue]

Am I right in saying Worrall has played in every European game since we signed him? Pretty sure he made his debut vs Villarreal away.

He’s playing on Thursday night, no doubt about it.

He didn’t play in Moscow - the game in Europe we lost.

 

[CaptainObjective]

'Everyone is catching on' – once again, making stuff up. I've yet to get my head around you ignoring facts and common sense in favour of this theory.

Even in this post, you're contradicting yourself. Worrall doesn't HAVE to play yet he's shoo-in even if he's played shîte – does he have to play or not?

We can potentially bank a lot of money on Thursday if we progress. A lot, lot more than the meagre fee that we might or might not have to pay on loan fee's. But yes, you're absolutely right, Gerrard is going to risk that and knowingly play inferior players so he doesn't run the risk of paying a few 100k loan fee. Everyone is catching on.

Put it this way.. you are certainly in the minority now. He doesn't have to play.. he's most likely already hit his X number of minutes in Europe but I fancy him to start in Vienna despite him doing his best Russel Martin impersonation today. Loans fees may or may not be a factor but there is a clear obligation for certain loanees to play X number of minutes. It's so easy to fathom out it's laughable, in fact I can't believe I'm still having this argument.

 

[GOLEADOR]

He didn’t play in Moscow - the game in Europe we lost.

The game we made Spartak look like Barca every time they attacked

 

[Its-Sebo]

Put it this way.. you are certainly in the minority now. He doesn't have to play.. he's most likely already hit his X number of minutes in Europe but I fancy him to start in Vienna despite him doing his best Russel Martin impersonation today. Loans fees may or may not be a factor but there is a clear obligation for certain loanees to play X number of minutes. It's so easy to fathom out it's laughable, in fact I can't believe I'm still having this argument.

So much drivel it’s unreal. I’m in no minority at all, anyone with a brain can see what you’re insinuating is a lot of pïsh. Evidenced by the fact that you ignore every single point I or anyone makes and all you come back with us ‘everybody’s agreed with me, honest’ despite the majority saying otherwise.

Gerrard picking teams based on loan fee’s of a maximum couple hundred thousand ffs.

You water down your stance every time as each of your points gets disproved. It’s went from Gerrard is forced to play the loan players, to loan players don’t have to play but they have to reach minutes, to the loan players have to play because Gerrard wants to keep Liverpool happy, to loan fees may or not play a factor.

Now after saying Gerrard will pick Worrall because he has to, you’ve changed it to ‘he’s probably reached his Euro minutes so doesn’t need to, but I think he will anyway’. Covering all outcomes; if he plays, he’s forced to, if he doesn’t, he’s reached his minutes! absolutely brilliant

 

[jackstar]

Our use of the loan system has been absolutely too much and anyone trying to defend it has got the blinkers on

We are a big club going for titles (or supposed to be) and yet we are taking untried untested youngsters

Does that sit right with you cause it doesn't sit right with me.

I suppose in a sense it comes as a relief that they are loan deals and can go back to their clubs.

 

[CaptainObjective]

So much drivel it’s unreal. I’m in no minority at all, anyone with a brain can see what you’re insinuating is a lot of pïsh. Evidenced by the fact that you ignore every single point I or anyone makes and all you come back with us ‘everybody’s agreed with me, honest’ despite the majority saying otherwise.

Gerrard picking teams based on loan fee’s of a maximum couple hundred thousand ffs.

You water down your stance every time as each of your points gets disproved. It’s went from Gerrard is forced to play the loan players, to loan players don’t have to play but they have to reach minutes, to the loan players have to play because Gerrard wants to keep Liverpool happy, to loan fees may or not play a factor.

Now after saying Gerrard will pick Worrall because he has to, you’ve changed it to ‘he’s probably reached his Euro minutes so doesn’t need to, but I think he will anyway’. Covering all outcomes; if he plays, he’s forced to, if he doesn’t, he’s reached his minutes! absolutely brilliant

Your just making stuff up now..

Not once have I stated they have to start games. My view on this has been very consistent since September. Bottom line is as long as they are here they WILL keep getting minutes whether they play well or not. It has already been proven on numerous occasions at this point. Coulibaly for instance has offered nothing since he was injured mid-August yet he's still getting plenty game time.. let that sink in. Ejaria looks like he's playing a game of FIFA street. He's clearly not up for the fight yet will continually receive game time. It's not as if we don't have other options either.

A well known poster on page 1 stated that he also heard from a solid source that certain loans are required to play a certain number of games. Not that it takes a nuclear physician to work out..

 

[Desert Loyal]

I would say that an agreement is in place where they have to play a certain % of games when fit. I would also say it is pretty obvious to anyone on the outside looking in.

Younger players lack consistency and that is the problem we are facing right now & without a proper playmaker (No 10) we go wide every single time....way too predictable.

 

[temperance]

We had two loan players today and one of them everyone on here would have picked.

Not for the first time the op is full of shite

He must be talking about all the game time Sadiq is getting.

 

[uplawmoorbear]

I would say that an agreement is in place where they have to play a certain % of games when fit. I would also say it is pretty obvious to anyone on the outside looking in.

Younger players lack consistency and that is the problem we are facing right now & without a proper playmaker (No 10) we go wide every single time....way too predictable.

It sounds like it's pretty normal for clubs down south to require players to play X% of games or there are financial or other consequences for the loan, e.g. the borrowing club has to pay a higher loan fee or the lending club can recall the player from the loan. This is to be expected when the purpose of a loan is for young players to get first-team experience, not sit on a bench.

There were rumours Forest wanted Worrall back but there is apparently no right of recall. Maybe there's a right of recall if he doesn't play a certain % of matches? Maybe there isn't. No one knows, so it's all purely speculative and don't think there's much point in bears arguing with each other about it.

While I don't think Gerrard would field a deliberately weakened side in a particular match just to comply with a loan agreement, I do think he wants all of these guys to remain in the squad for the whole season and, if that means they must play a certain number of games or they can be recalled, he will want them to play in enough games otherwise he knows he has to replace them. Again, pure speculation on my part.

Totally agree re young players on loan and consistency - you won't win a league with players like that as the core of your side unfortunately.

 

[Anoldranger]

We should be playing Katic and helping him develop rather than playing Worral.

If he makes a few mistakes so be it.

I that will be right! The couple of really bad games he had he was crucified on here

 

[GersFanHutch]

Your just making stuff up now..

Not once have I stated they have to start games. My view on this has been very consistent since September. Bottom line is as long as they are here they WILL keep getting minutes whether they play well or not. It has already been proven on numerous occasions at this point. Coulibaly for instance has offered nothing since he was injured mid-August yet he's still getting plenty game time.. let that sink in. Ejaria looks like he's playing a game of FIFA street. He's clearly not up for the fight yet will continually receive game time. It's not as if we don't have other options either.

A well known poster on page 1 stated that he also heard from a solid source that certain loans are required to play a certain number of games. Not that it takes a nuclear physician to work out..

It’s one thing coming to the conclusion that the loan agreements stipulate a number of games that the player needs to play. In fact, that’s a reasonable assumption to make. A lot of loan deals are structured like this.

However go so far as to claim that Gerrard is picking his team so as to avoid the financial penalties just doesn’t make sense. Why would the club and manager put themselves in that position when the money involved would be so relatively low? As said above, we’re talking hundreds of thousands, not millions. And to put it in context we receive circa £500k for a Europa Group stage win and another £1m for qualifying for the knockouts. Enough to cover these deals multiple times over. If the club can accept and deal with the outlay spent by Caixhina then I’m pretty confident they aren’t putting such severe restrictions on Gerrard to satisfy the requirements of the loan agreements.

It’s much more likely that Gerrard is simply trying to give all the squad game
time so that if (when) we pick up more injuries we don’t have players that haven’t kicked a ball in months stepping in. Is that the right thing to do at this current moment? Maybe not, but at least I’m certain that it is 100% his decision based on the football and nothing else.

 

[songsofglory]

Just going to ignore the two dropped to the bench then aye?

 

[GersFanHutch]

We should also note that a lot of our own players haven’t exactly been setting the heather alight either with recent performances, barring some exceptions. So it’s not as if the loan players are keeping individuals that deserve a place out of the team.

 

[songsofglory]

I that will be right! The couple of really bad games he had he was crucified on here

Exactly. It matters not a jot their age, who owns them, what position or potential. FF has zero patience or tolerance. The giving them a chance thing is baws. It doesn’t happen.

 

[Hank Hill]

Worrall was hopeless today yet he's a shoe in to start on Thursday. Get yer head out of the sand for crying out loud.

How did that "shoe in" work out?

 

[CaptainObjective]

How did that "shoe in" work out?

Do you think we've seen the back of him? Nah me neither..

 

[ICA_86]

The need to pin our problems down to one thing is concerning.

Inevitably when the voices get so loud that the current fix all hot topic happens, we get beat and it’s onto the next proclamation.

There’s no surprise on Cumbernauld Gers talking absolute nonsense.

I wouldn’t concern yourself - he has no evidence to the absolute shite he’s suggesting.

 

[Axelrod]

I predicted it at the start of the season and sadly it’s coming to fruition - these loan deals are all well and good short term, but rarely work out over a full season . For a team with our ambition , it’s not good enough though.

We now have countless examples of loanees who start well but end up either losing form, disillusioned, injured or both .

Ejaria , zelalem, Hyndland, Worral , odujwa , Sadiq, every single one of them and more .

I really do understand we don’t have finances for certain deals and that loans can give us a chance to see a player . Ryan Kent and perhaps Coullibaly are the only two I’d consider buying permanently from the current crop .

For a club who need players to “ do them a turn “ loans are ok , for a club who want to win league titles , it’s crystal clear it’s just not going to work and I’ll say it till I’m blue in the face .