New penalty rules disaster

Buster

Well-Known Member
#1
Was listening to talk sport about this new rule about a penalty being awarded if the ball hits a defenders arm in his box. Surely this will encourage attacking players to practise flicking the ball to strike the defenders arm deliberately if he sees it leaving his body at any time . This is ridiculous would even say cheating players like Ronaldo and the like could end up winning half a dozen penalties a game.
 

Maturebear63

Well-Known Member
#9
So if the players line up in the box and form a wall to stop a free-kick, and they cover the Haw-Maws and the ball stricks their hand it's a penalty? ffs madness.
 

Dempster

Well-Known Member
#11
This is nonsense, just like the criticism of VAR, there hasn't been a single wrong decision yet - Mane in the CL final?? Sissoko is standing pointing like a fuckin goon in his own box with his arm above his head, of course its a stonewall penalty!
To be fair we all saw it at the time , what the poster is saying is there’s no doubt when you watch it in slow motion that Mane looks up first , sees Sissoko pointing and then deliberately chips the ball onto his arm. It’s a good aim but that shouldn’t be a part of the game , he obviously played for the penalty and it worked .

Do we want to see players chipping the ball towards players arms all season hoping to get a touch and a penalty ?
 

lwl

Well-Known Member
#12
It's been said a million times before, but why do they keep fucking with the game we love (or in my case, used to love)?

The answer is obvious of course - goals, controversy, theatrics, audiences, pay per views, MONEY - we all know that.

The danger (for old timers) is football (if it hasn't already) moving away from being pure sport and becoming 'sports entertainment' - like WWE. In the future, it may just be 'entertainment' with little sport. Maybe that's what the kids of today love.
 
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Papasmurf

Scum Evictor
Official Ticketer
#14
This is nonsense, just like the criticism of VAR, there hasn't been a single wrong decision yet - Mane in the CL final?? Sissoko is standing pointing like a fuckin goon in his own box with his arm above his head, of course its a stonewall penalty!
I don’t like the rule when it comes to this. But sissoko was a muppet and deserved what came his way
 

Bobby Russell

Well-Known Member
#15
If it's within the rules, it isn't cheating. It's clever play and defenders will have to adapt.
How do you adapt to someone kicking the ball at your hand at about 100mph when your half a yard away?

Cut off your arms??

Away and don't talk rubbish. You are the kind of person sitting getting paid for making these ludicrous rules.
 

Teuchterblue

Well-Known Member
#16
I can see this rule being changed or tweaked in coming years. It's what the likes of FIFA & UEFA do: bring in regulations which cause short term havoc to the game - see golden and silver goals, every major tournament for a decade or more undermined by players sent-off at the drop of a hat, off side rule changing every few years etc.
 

Starting Anew

Well-Known Member
#17
This is nonsense, just like the criticism of VAR, there hasn't been a single wrong decision yet - Mane in the CL final?? Sissoko is standing pointing like a fuckin goon in his own box with his arm above his head, of course its a stonewall penalty!
Agree on Sissoko. Genuinely don’t see how anyone defends that under any rule. Arm is miles away from his body, making him bigger. Ball strikes his upper arm, preventing a dangerous cross (which is already a pen in my book) but then rolls down his arm and, to prevent it going free in the box, Sissoko brings his whole arm and hand down to control it and bounces it off his hand into the ground. I would accept that Sissoko was maybe trying to point to give instructions to colleagues rather than deliberately aiming to interfere with play but it was a stupid thing to do and resulted in a utterly incontestable penalty.

However an example of the new rule going wrong was in the Scotland/England woman’s World Cup game. Without getting into the debate on women’s football, the rule there was awful. The Scottish defender had her hands in a wholly normal position. Raised only to around belly button height and clearly in a position only for balance. The ball barely grazes her arm to the extent that it’s flight was altered so little that it took repeated VAR views to see if it had touched her arm at all. No England player claimed for it at all.

I had initially thought that the rule might simplify things and be useful but there are huge risks for us ahead after seeing that woman’s match. We more than any other team will see repeated trial by TV with every single ball in our box scrutinised for the slightest brush of skin on an arm. If VAR ever comes to Scotland then you can bet refs will be reviewing innocuous footage from us in every game while other teams are largely reffed in real time similar to the old rules.
 

Dempster

Well-Known Member
#18
I can see this rule being changed or tweaked in coming years. It's what the likes of FIFA & UEFA do: bring in regulations which cause short term havoc to the game - see golden and silver goals, every major tournament for a decade or more undermined by players sent-off at the drop of a hat, off side rule changing every few years etc.
Agreed . People need to realise players are fly - rather than try and aim for an team mates head 20 yards away with a pinpoint cross , we are now about to see everyone either chipping or blasting the ball straight at the defenders arm area in order to gain a penalty . It must be changed ASAP.
 

Jaws

Well-Known Member
#19
The thing about a penalty kick is that, short of a red card, it is the harshest sanction in the game. Penalty for the ball brushing the hand of a jumping or running defender following nothing more than a speculative cross is harsh!
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
#20
Agree on Sissoko. Genuinely don’t see how anyone defends that under any rule. Arm is miles away from his body, making him bigger. Ball strikes his upper arm, preventing a dangerous cross (which is already a pen in my book) but then rolls down his arm and, to prevent it going free in the box, Sissoko brings his whole arm and hand down to control it and bounces it off his hand into the ground. I would accept that Sissoko was maybe trying to point to give instructions to colleagues rather than deliberately aiming to interfere with play but it was a stupid thing to do and resulted in a utterly incontestable penalty.

However an example of the new rule going wrong was in the Scotland/England woman’s World Cup game. Without getting into the debate on women’s football, the rule there was awful. The Scottish defender had her hands in a wholly normal position. Raised only to around belly button height and clearly in a position only for balance. The ball barely grazes her arm to the extent that it’s flight was altered so little that it took repeated VAR views to see if it had touched her arm at all. No England player claimed for it at all.

I had initially thought that the rule might simplify things and be useful but there are huge risks for us ahead after seeing that woman’s match. We more than any other team will see repeated trial by TV with every single ball in our box scrutinised for the slightest brush of skin on an arm. If VAR ever comes to Scotland then you can bet refs will be reviewing innocuous footage from us in every game while other teams are largely reffed in real time similar to the old rules.
The ball hit his side first. Had his arm been down in a natural position it would still have hit his arm and been no penalty. Was a pish call.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
#21
Some of the penalty calls in the women's WC would have a riot started in an OF game. They are ridiculous. The rule will be changed at the end of this season as the amount of penalties given, especially where VAR is in use, will be astronomical.
 

BrunoseAlves

Well-Known Member
#22
A cop out to remove controversy that will have the opposite effect. Accidental hand ball gifting the opposition a near certain goal is utterly stupid. It will ruin games as a spectacle as it did the CL final.
 

StuGers

Well-Known Member
#24
How do you adapt to someone kicking the ball at your hand at about 100mph when your half a yard away?

Cut off your arms??

Away and don't talk rubbish. You are the kind of person sitting getting paid for making these ludicrous rules.
No, you simply don’t have your arms out.

People seem to be massively misinterpreting the rule change.
 

Alex

Well-Known Member
#27
How do you adapt to someone kicking the ball at your hand at about 100mph when your half a yard away?

Cut off your arms??

Away and don't talk rubbish. You are the kind of person sitting getting paid for making these ludicrous rules.
Keep your arms down by your side and you won’t be penalised.

I wish I got paid hundreds of thousands for devising new laws for the game.
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
#28
Keep your arms down by your side and you won’t be penalised.

I wish I got paid hundreds of thousands for devising new laws for the game.
Good luck playing the game with your hands behind your back at all times and in every circumstance e.g when falling or off balance.

The rule is farcical and I predict will be ditched after a season of farcical penalty awards..
 
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Starting Anew

Well-Known Member
#33
God luck playing the game with your hands behind your back at all times and in every circumstance e.g when falling or off balance.

The rule is farcical and I predict will be ditched after a season of farcical penalty awards..
I think that the problem isn’t so much about the hand position. Just saying “above a certain level” is probably ok. I think waist might be too low. Bottom of rib cage probably makes more sense to allow normal positions for balance etc but is harder for a ref to judge where that is.

The big difference is in the leeway being removed regarding grey areas. Refs no longer having to judge intent but any handball being punishable. Have to admit that I initially thought that this was sensible, removing ambiguity and favouring attackers. But, after seeing it in the women’s World Cup it is unworkable, especially with VAR. You will end up with any goal mouth scramble or cross being called for review and pens given very frequently for things that no one would recognise as a penalty at present. It is also hugely concerning for us as the huge bias within Scotland would see these things reviewed incessantly against us and for Celtic both in real time and in the inevitable trial by Sportscene.

I think a better rule would be “deliberate handball or hand above shoulder”
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
#34
I think that the problem isn’t so much about the hand position. Just saying “above a certain level” is probably ok. I think waist might be too low. Bottom of rib cage probably makes more sense to allow normal positions for balance etc but is harder for a ref to judge where that is.

The big difference is in the leeway being removed regarding grey areas. Refs no longer having to judge intent but any handball being punishable. Have to admit that I initially thought that this was sensible, removing ambiguity and favouring attackers. But, after seeing it in the women’s World Cup it is unworkable, especially with VAR. You will end up with any goal mouth scramble or cross being called for review and pens given very frequently for things that no one would recognise as a penalty at present. It is also hugely concerning for us as the huge bias within Scotland would see these things reviewed incessantly against us and for Celtic both in real time and in the inevitable trial by Sportscene.

I think a better rule would be “deliberate handball or hand above shoulder”
Better still ,if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Oh , you can bet trial by Sportscene will be in over drive come what may .
 

-ZED-

Well-Known Member
#35
The thing is, your arms ARE NOT in a natural position by your sides, they are there for balance and support, anyone that has played football knows that when you slide to block a ball your arms naturally go out for balance and to break your fall.

The new law is a complete joke.
 

StuGers

Well-Known Member
#36
God luck playing the game with your hands behind your back at all times and in every circumstance e.g when falling or off balance.

The rule is farcical and I predict will be ditched after a season of farcical penalty awards..
That’s not the rules though.
Your hands don’t need to be behind your back.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
#38
It hit his side and upper arm at the same time. And if his arms had been at his side he wouldn’t have proceeded to play basketball with it to control it.
If his arm was at his side it would still have hit his arm. Why is it different that his arm was raised when it hit it?

Was a terrible decision.
 

Buster

Well-Known Member
#39
To be fair we all saw it at the time , what the poster is saying is there’s no doubt when you watch it in slow motion that Mane looks up first , sees Sissoko pointing and then deliberately chips the ball onto his arm. It’s a good aim but that shouldn’t be a part of the game , he obviously played for the penalty and it worked .

Do we want to see players chipping the ball towards players arms all season hoping to get a touch and a penalty ?
That's exactly the point I was making just you said it a wee bit clearer. What I was trying to say was a player might intentionally flick the ball at a hand that's moved away from the side of his hip at say a couple of feet giving the defender no chance to move his arm away . Accidental handball is the same as intentional no difference penalty. I played at a good standard and as a centre half I defy anyone to run along side a player who turns quickly in the box and keep your arms tight to your body it can't be done unless you tie your arms to your side . It's a farce and will cause mayhem
 

Buster

Well-Known Member
#40
Pretty sure it’s if the arm is not in a natural position by your side
Rule is mate if the arms are straight done your body touching your sides and ball hits arm no penalty . If an arm moves away from side and ball hits arm penalty does not have to be intentional even if the arms are down and one inch from side penalty does not make any difference if the defender is a foot away or 20 yards away penalty
 

Starting Anew

Well-Known Member
#41
If his arm was at his side it would still have hit his arm. Why is it different that his arm was raised when it hit it?

Was a terrible decision.
Ok. So his arm was in a hugely unnatural position, increasing his area and making it harder to cross. Maybe if his arm was at his side, the cross would have gone where his arm was blocking and led to a goal? Having his arm up highlighted the issue and made it inevitable the decision was given. If he was playing with his arms not blocking crosses, maybe he would have got away with it.

But, even if I give you that the initial contact was not a foul, the ball was still live and deflected off him towards the penalty area where Liverpool players were waiting. He then brought his arm down and, in so doing, controlled the ball along the whole length of his arm and finished with a little basketball dribble off his hand to stop it moving towards goal and deflect it down into a bounce. You cannot watch football and claim that it isn’t a penalty if a defender starts bouncing a ball off his hands in the penalty box!
 

Ponientebear

Well-Known Member
#42
It’s yet another rule that will be a completely grey area with referees having to decide/guess whether it’s deliberate or not, the inconsistencies will be many and given Scottish referees fondness in playing to the Tarrier’s rules then it’s yet another rule that will work against us.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
#43
This is nonsense, just like the criticism of VAR, there hasn't been a single wrong decision yet - Mane in the CL final?? Sissoko is standing pointing like a fuckin goon in his own box with his arm above his head, of course its a stonewall penalty!
No different to the one we got against the sheep, which some in the media were saying wasn't a penalty because McKenna had his arm up to claim for offside. If your arm is up and the ball hits it in the box, then it's a penalty.
 

Buster

Well-Known Member
#44
Mind you this rule has been brought in by FIFA to apply to all teams . The refs book that they seem to use for us might not have this new rule change in it.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
#45
Pretty sure it’s if the arm is not in a natural position by your side
What even is a ''natural position''? Everyone runs differently, some people run with their arms by their side some with their arms swinging about etc.

Football is played at 100mph if you're a defender charging out quickly to try and block a cross / shot coming into the box the last thing on your f*cking mind is ''oh, is my arm in a natural position here?''.

It's a total farce and the game we grew up loving is being ruined by this sh*te.
 

TQ3

Well-Known Member
#46
Add in the rule that a goal won’t count if it hits a hand on the way in, means defenders can turn goalie, at the cost of a yellow and a penalty.
The trouble is, the fat cat uefa Boys have to justify their massive wages and expenses, so a annual rules change does just that. No need to make sense as a rule revert also justifies them being there all year.
It’s a money merry go round, we would all love a seat on!
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
#48
Ok. So his arm was in a hugely unnatural position, increasing his area and making it harder to cross. Maybe if his arm was at his side, the cross would have gone where his arm was blocking and led to a goal? Having his arm up highlighted the issue and made it inevitable the decision was given. If he was playing with his arms not blocking crosses, maybe he would have got away with it.

But, even if I give you that the initial contact was not a foul, the ball was still live and deflected off him towards the penalty area where Liverpool players were waiting. He then brought his arm down and, in so doing, controlled the ball along the whole length of his arm and finished with a little basketball dribble off his hand to stop it moving towards goal and deflect it down into a bounce. You cannot watch football and claim that it isn’t a penalty if a defender starts bouncing a ball off his hands in the penalty box!
It was clearly accidental.
 

bornabluenose

Well-Known Member
#50
That’s not the rules though.
Your hands don’t need to be behind your back.
Whatever the pedantry of the rules do you really think we need more ambiguity in the penalty box , especially here in the land of the shit referee , trial by sportscene and no VAR .

In my opinion they are fucking with the rules for no particular reason
 
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