Nikola Katić – Best CB At Ibrox

gersfan52

Well-Known Member
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.
If Katic had performed the way Goldson or Helander did against Feyenoord he wouldn't even have made the squad last night.
 

crookie_bear

Well-Known Member
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.
Maybe that's why we haven't seen him then, did you see him in the last OF game absolutely roasted
 

standardbarger

Well-Known Member
Katic seems to get better each game he misses.
The goals last night were down to the collective, not individual errors.
Ive been watching Goldson and Helander since they have been paired and honestly they are rank and are costing us goals, helander looks like a horse thats getting pulled up in a 3 mile race and Goldson is constantly turning his back in situations where no centre back should do that, both of them are hopeless defending a ball on the ground never mind heading as our last euro tie proved where Goldson was standing holding his hands up like he was being robbed instead of trying to get the ball off the guy, we need younger quicker and more talented guys in which we have sitting on the bench,i know Gerrard will not drop him but it could eventually cost him his job and us another season trophy less.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
If I’m Katic (that means I’m not a born and bred Rangers fan etc), I’m thinking about asking for a move.

I’d be asking my boss why I get papped to the bench after a few sloppy games and others make bigger errors and keep their starting spot. I’m also asking him how I’m supposed to improve when I’m not playing and will only get game time against naff opposition.

“But he got a new contract”. Yeah but I’m starting to think that’s so we can command a better fee when the inevitable happens and he asks if he can leave.
 

Jaws II

Well-Known Member
Errrr, the last OF I watched we lost because Goldson gifted them a goal. That’s a hell of a selective memory you’ve got. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the same happen again on Sunday when he thinks he’s Beckenbauer.
It is fuckin amazing how people have turned Goldson fucking up into Katic being roasted!!

It is quite impressive actually, if it wasn’t total bullshit. :))
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
It is fuckin amazing how people have turned Goldson fucking up into Katic being roasted!!

It is quite impressive actually, if it wasn’t total bullshit. :))
A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.
 

Jaws II

Well-Known Member
A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.
It is frustrating, I think he has done great things with our midfield with not a lot of cash spent. Morelos and Kent are our best players and are great attacking options.
His blindness is with the defence esp on the right hand side and it is this that is stopping us making that wee final push to start winning things
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.
The loyalty to players / blind spot thing never sits easily with me.

Gerrard is far from flawless, but this idea that he deliberately overlooks players simply because he likes others - personally, or whatever it is - strikes me as nonsense.

It's surely worth considering the reasons why he might prefer Goldson and Helander to Katic.

For a start Helander is a natural left sided player so that would explain why he gets a game before everyones' favourite Croat (no disresepct to our man Borna), so really the question is why Katic isn't getting in ahead of Goldson.

Gerrard seems to put great emphasis on training. How many times have we heard him say, "He's trained really well this week so deserves his place"? Perhaps he simply feels Katic doesn't train as well as Goldson?

I also think Gerrard likes his central defenders to be good with the ball at their feet.

Admittedly Goldson has looked suspect on occasion, but at his best - and it's been evident in the Europa League games - he appears more composed with the ball at his feet than Katic has tended to do.

We all love the Croat's blood and snotters approach to defending, but in the modern game centre halves need to have a lot more to their game than that and I can see why Gerrard feels his compatriot is the better option.

Which isn't to say Goldson is perfect, he clearly isn't, but that's why we snapped him up for a mere £3m.
The same can also be said of Helander.

I actually agree with the criticism of both Goldson and Helander's performances of late and always have a slightly uneasy feeling about them, but by and large it's been unfounded.

I think we have four very solid looking centre backs, but they will make mistakes.

The constant criticism of them though does begin to get personal and it would only take a couple of errors from Katic - and there's been more than that from him to date - before half this board would be howling for him to be binned again.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
The loyalty to players / blind spot thing never sits easily with me.

Gerrard is far from flawless, but this idea that he deliberately overlooks players simply because he likes others - personally, or whatever it is - strikes me as nonsense.

It's surely worth considering the reasons why he might prefer Goldson and Helander to Katic.

For a start Helander is a natural left sided player so that would explain why he gets a game before everyones' favourite Croat (no disresepct to our man Borna), so really the question is why Katic isn't getting in ahead of Goldson.

Gerrard seems to put great emphasis on training. How many times have we heard him say, "He's trained really well this week so deserves his place"? Perhaps he simply feels Katic doesn't train as well as Goldson?

I also think Gerrard likes his central defenders to be good with the ball at their feet.

Admittedly Goldson has looked suspect on occasion, but at his best - and it's been evident in the Europa League games - he appears more composed with the ball at his feet than Katic has tended to do.

We all love the Croat's blood and snotters approach to defending, but in the modern game centre halves need to have a lot more to their game than that and I can see why Gerrard feels his compatriot is the better option.

Which isn't to say Goldson is perfect, he clearly isn't, but that's why we snapped him up for a mere £3m.
The same can also be said of Helander.

I actually agree with the criticism of both Goldson and Helander's performances of late and always have a slightly uneasy feeling about them, but by and large it's been unfounded.

I think we have four very solid looking centre backs, but they will make mistakes.

The constant criticism of them though does begin to get personal and it would only take a couple of errors from Katic - and there's been more than that from him to date - before half this board would be howling for him to be binned again.
That makes Katic sound like a heavily limited battering ram. Of course a big part of his game is his physicality but he’s a little bit more than that; although that physically would have been welcome last night. I’ll tell you what though, if Goldson is Gerrard’s idea of a ball playing centre half then we’re in trouble. Another thing, at Katic’s age he should be improving, you’d think before long he’d actually improve to a point of setting himself apart as the superior defender, he won’t do that picking splinters out his arse or playing the odd game against Hamilton or East Fife. I get why Helander plays and he has a lot of good attributes but he also has a glaring weakness I’m worried they’ll exploit on Sunday, and the way we play sort of leaves them open to exploiting it.

All of ours defenders seem like good defenders on their day, but fact is he has a couple of players he won’t shift and those players have actually cost us dearly in a few very big games this season. This isn’t a trophy winning side yet so we can’t simply swat all of this aside and give them the benefit of the doubt. But above all, having undroppable players just doesn’t send the right message at all.

I’d love to believe that there’s no favouritism, but there’s plenty of evidence for it. Shey Ojo is the perfect example, when you look at how often he starts, or is Gerrard’s go to guy from the bench, you really have to ask questions of what is going on, especially lately when Hearts appearance aside, his productivity has been little to nothing.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
That makes Katic sound like a heavily limited battering ram. Of course a big part of his game is his physicality but he’s a little bit more than that; although that physically would have been welcome last night. I’ll tell you what though, if Goldson is Gerrard’s idea of a ball playing centre half then we’re in trouble. Another thing, at Katic’s age he should be improving, you’d think before long he’d actually improve to a point of setting himself apart as the superior defender, he won’t do that picking splinters out his arse or playing the odd game against Hamilton or East Fife. I get why Helander plays and he has a lot of good attributes but he also has a glaring weakness I’m worried they’ll exploit on Sunday, and the way we play sort of leaves them open to exploiting it.

All of ours defenders seem like good defenders on their day, but fact is he has a couple of players he won’t shift and those players have actually cost us dearly in a few very big games this season. This isn’t a trophy winning side yet so we can’t simply swat all of this aside and give them the benefit of the doubt. But above all, having undroppable players just doesn’t send the right message at all.

I’d love to believe that there’s no favouritism, but there’s plenty of evidence for it. Shey Ojo is the perfect example, when you look at how often he starts, or is Gerrard’s go to guy from the bench, you really have to ask questions of what is going on, especially lately when Hearts appearance aside, his productivity has been little to nothing.
Others have mentioned they feel Gerrard sees Katic and Edmundson as our longer term partnership and I think that's probably correct.

I'm pretty sure Gerrard values both players, but right now he feels Goldson and Helander are our best pairing and I think he's right - the best players we've faced all season have been in the Europa League where by and large both have looked excellent.

We need to assume the manager knows what he's doing and I think we'd all agree he's much better placed to make a decision on that than any of us are.

It's the inference that he's employing spurious or petty whims in selecting or omitting some players that gets me.

He's surely worthy of more respect than that?
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
Others have mentioned they feel Gerrard sees Katic and Edmundson as our longer term partnership and I think that's probably correct.

I'm pretty sure Gerrard values both players, but right now he feels Goldson and Helander are our best pairing and I think he's right - the best players we've faced all season have been in the Europa League where by and large both have looked excellent.

We need to assume the manager knows what he's doing and I think we'd all agree he's much better placed to make a decision on that than any of us are.

It's the inference that he's employing spurious or petty whims in selecting or omitting some players that gets me.

He's surely worthy of more respect than that?
Honestly, he’s a rookie manager with no managerial silverware on his CV and still makes some of the same mistakes a year and a half in, so the answer is no, he doesn’t really deserve any more respect than he already gets, which is a lot to be honest. Lesser names than Gerrard would come under a great deal more pressure, particularly last season; with that being said he’s done an excellent job overall. But people are quite right to ask questions about his selection after games like last night. By the way Goldson and Helander were very poor against Feyenoord. Goldson sold the jerseys in the OF game and again last night, big games and traditionally tough games, points dropped in all of them courtesy of his bullet proof number 1 pick.

It’s not uncommon for managers to have favourites or blind spots for certain players, Walter had it with Lee McCulloch. But you don’t get the benefit of the doubt or a free pass until you’re winning things. I suspect if we win on Sunday the nerves, anxieties and criticism will lessen a great deal.
 

tottie beck

Well-Known Member
He gets my vote. He has the ability to be better than both Goldson & Helandar. He is more than good enough at present to partner either. More game time will only accelerate his growth. So play him. If for no other reason than Goldson/Helandar does not seem to work as a pairing.
 

CaptainCourageous

Well-Known Member
If Katić was playing like Goldson he would have been dropped weeks ago.

I don't understand how you can drop Katić for poor performances yet Goldson remains in the side every game.

He's a good defender but bloody frustrating. So laboured in possession, too causal, switches off, gets caught in possession and fires too many aimless balls up the park.
 

crookie_bear

Well-Known Member
Errrr, the last OF I watched we lost because Goldson gifted them a goal. That’s a hell of a selective memory you’ve got. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the same happen again on Sunday when he thinks he’s Beckenbauer.
Katic was dreadful in the OF (as was Goldson) mistakes all over the place. The Livingstone game at Ibrox he had a nightmare as well. Just pointing out that there's mistakes in him too and yes I'm worried about Goldson on Sunday, really worried. Would I feel better if he was dropped for Katic ? Not sure.
 

Gordon1951

Well-Known Member
Yes I agreed Katic is the best CB at the club. He should be playing with Herlander at the moment. The Chuckle Brothers (Goldson and Tav) should be sold as they are quite mistake prone, but Gerrard loves them and finds them undroppable for some strange reason.
 

Jb85

Active Member
Katic is the best at the club. Should try a pairing of Katic and Edmundson against a lower team and see how they get on. Time for a change.
 

ID10

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I don’t remember us losing such poor goals or give away as many chances with Katic in the team

Just an observation & I don’t agree with the OP
 

Marvin_Andrews_Loyal

Active Member
OP is correct

I got a week ban for slagging Goldson for being incapable of heading a ball half the time after Hamilton game.

Katic is far better and sooner Gerrard realises that Goldson is bang average, we will concede less stupid goals.
 

wayoutwest

Well-Known Member
I don't believe Katic was dropped for poor performances, the management team simply prefer the more experienced pairing of Goldson & Helander, not a big surprise really and for the most part they have paired up well.

But, there's been a lack of clean sheets recently and both CH's have been party to that, don't think either could complain if they were replaced by the Golden Boy, i think they will be given Sunday to redeem themselves though.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
If Katic really is the best centre half at the club, why isn’t he starting?

That’s the question being repeatedly asked in one way or another, and the answer seems to be that Gerrard either:

a) doesn’t see it, in which case we have a manager that has a glaring inability to assess the relative strengths of the individual components that make up his squad

or

b) that he does see it, but for some unknown reason continues to deliberately weaken his starting eleven by playing a player or players he knows to be inferior.

That’s essentially what’s being said here - that Gerrard can’t spot a player.
 

Buster

Well-Known Member
Katic and Edmundson are the future and if SG doesn't sicken any off them and they leave will be one of the great CB pairings in our clubs history .
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
Katic is a fan favourite and his mistakes just get ignored. Last night has been taken as a disaster and therefore we get this level of debate.

It's something that we've seen many times over the years bad results equals we want change. Managers will resist this type of fan pressure for so long if the pressure builds due to lack of success then he will bow to it and Katic will come back in.

He's a young player with plenty of potential but I don't think he is better or more reliable than the current pairing and I'm not alone many FFers agree and so does the manager.
 

Blue Tack

Well-Known Member
Katic is a fan favourite and his mistakes just get ignored. Last night has been taken as a disaster and therefore we get this level of debate.

It's something that we've seen many times over the years bad results equals we want change. Managers will resist this type of fan pressure for so long if the pressure builds due to lack of success then he will bow to it and Katic will come back in.

He's a young player with plenty of potential but I don't think he is better or more reliable than the current pairing and I'm not alone many FFers agree and so does the manager.
I agree .

Katic is decent and has potential ,I’ve seen him turned plenty of times ,he’s good in the air but arent most centre backs .
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
I agree .

Katic is decent and has potential ,I’ve seen him turned plenty of times ,he’s good in the air but arent most centre backs .
There's been games when he's been a bit all over the place and nothing is said.

Fans mainly have pre-determined bias on players beyond the obvious-as such every Goldson error is magnified and every Katic one forgotten. It is what it is-this season was always going to see severe backlash at any setbacks and well if we don't have a successful season I would easily wager SG will consider his future as the criticism will be immense and he will have options to go elsewhere. This is not overstating things-this where we are.
 

Coplandbear

Well-Known Member
I'd be looking at bringing Katic back sooner rather than later something needs to change in defence the goals we are conceding are terrible.
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
There's been games when he's been a bit all over the place and nothing is said.

Fans mainly have pre-determined bias on players beyond the obvious-as such every Goldson error is magnified and every Katic one forgotten. It is what it is-this season was always going to see severe backlash at any setbacks and well if we don't have a successful season I would easily wager SG will consider his future as the criticism will be immense and he will have options to go elsewhere. This is not overstating things-this where we are.
Lose on Sunday and the hysteria is going to be unbearable.

I’ve said all along I still feel we’re a little short of what’s needed to pip a Celtic side which, when all is said and done, are also having a terrific season, but it’s testament to the work Gerrard and his backroom team have put in to date that we’re still more or less neck and neck with them (certainly until the second minute of injury time last night at least) despite the considerable financial advantage they possess.

Unless there’s a complete collapse in the second half of the season I think we will have seen significant improvement this term to make us all believe the trajectory remains determinedly in the ascent and I think that’ll be enough to ensure Gerrard remains fully focussed on the job for another season at least, but that’s unlikely to stop the delusion and insanity on here if come May we finish trophyless once again - the pressure supporters have invested in stopping NIAR at all costs doesn’t do us any favours at all, IMO.
 

WATP

Well-Known Member
I’ve said it repeatedly myself....why Katic is not a first pick is beyond me. The right hand side of our defence is where we mess up repeatedly and Goldson needs rested....Power and Pace is what we need from our CBs.
 

WATP

Well-Known Member
Lose on Sunday and the hysteria is going to be unbearable.

I’ve said all along I still feel we’re a little short of what’s needed to pip a Celtic side which, when all is said and done, are also having a terrific season, but it’s testament to the work Gerrard and his backroom team have put in to date that we’re still more or less neck and neck with them (certainly until the second minute of injury time last night at least) despite the considerable financial advantage they possess.

Unless there’s a complete collapse in the second half of the season I think we will have seen significant improvement this term to make us all believe the trajectory remains determinedly in the ascent and I think that’ll be enough to ensure Gerrard remains fully focussed on the job for another season at least, but that’s unlikely to stop the delusion and insanity on here if come May we finish trophyless once again - the pressure supporters have invested in stopping NIAR at all costs doesn’t do us any favours at all, IMO.
The biggest issue for us is our own belief, I hope I’m wrong but I think we lack a bit of gallusness.
 

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