Nikola Katić – Best CB At Ibrox

I keep telling myself that Gerrard must be seeing something in training that's making him keep Katic out but the more game time Goldson gets, the more inexcusable mistakes he makes & it just makes me wonder wtf big Niko is doing to keep him on the bench. Tbh, I fear he'll ask for a transfer as from where we're sitting, he's not getting the same treatment.

Helander running looks like how I feel in a dream. It's only a matter of time before teams really clock that & exploit us for it.
 
Drop points ( poorly) and we are back to anyone not playing is a world beater. Just saying.

I don't think that's the case mate. It's more like Tav, Goldson and Helander seem undroppable no matter how they play yet Edmunson and Katic watch from afar. These two rarely put a foot wrong when they play but to be fair if they had a run of games, their names could be in a thread like this
 
The longer Katic is out the team the better a player he gets. Gerrard and his backroom staff see him day in day out in training, they obviously know his strengths & weaknesses better than any of us. We have kept 18 clean sheets this season, all we heard last year was need a settled back 4 now after a bad result its drop Helander & Golsdon
 
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?
Helander wins more in the air than Katic.
 
The longer Katic is out the team the better a player he gets. Gerrard and his backroom staff see him day in day out in training, they obviously know his strengths & weaknesses better than any of us. We have kept 18 clean sheets this season, all we heard last year was need a settled back 4 now after a bad result its drop Helander & Golsdon

Nah bollocks to this.

By that logic you're justifying Ojo getting as much game time as he currently is?

He might be offering something in training but he's certainly offering nothing on the park.

The league was lost last year, partly because Gerrard broke up a solid partnership in Goldson and Katic to shoehorn Worrall in.

Same thing is happening again.

Feyenoord's second goal - had that been Katic involved he'd be lucky to even make the 18.

Edouard, Christie, Forrest, Elyounoussi will tear Goldson and Helander apart.
 
SG made a lady's front bottom of it last season with worrel and history is repeating itself this season
 
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?

I also think that he has reasonable pace like Edmondson has.

I’ve been saying for two months that the balance isn’t right in CD. I’d have Niko & Helander as I feel like you on Niko but I’d still prefer one of the experienced two with George to what we have.

Better balance of skill sets.
 
I keep telling myself that Gerrard must be seeing something in training that's making him keep Katic out but the more game time Goldson gets, the more inexcusable mistakes he makes & it just makes me wonder wtf big Niko is doing to keep him on the bench. Tbh, I fear he'll ask for a transfer as from where we're sitting, he's not getting the same treatment.

Helander running looks like how I feel in a dream. It's only a matter of time before teams really clock that & exploit us for it.

Aberdeen clocked it, that’s why Gallagher made runs into his area constantly once they had got over our early bombardment.
 
I would love for you to prove that. Watching the games it certainly doesnt seem that way. Niko would head a brick wall. Helander stands and watches the ball bounce or misses the header altogether so often.
The stats are from Opta.

It's close, but Helander wins more in the air than Katic.
 
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?

Someone will be along in a minute to tell you Goldson is the best centre back in the league.

I agree I don’t even think he’s the best at the club, and arguably their two defenders are both better than him.
 
Such a curious case when it comes to Katic.

Instant hit with the fans and strikes up a partnership with Goldson, dropped for a loanee from Forrest, not seen for weeks / months.
Comes back in has 1 shit game, hooked during the game, not seen for weeks / months.
Starts commanding at the back with the same guy he struck up a partnership with pre-Worral, Helander gets fit, not seen for weeks.
Appears from the wilderness for 4minutes to try and attack a corner (I assume that was the idea) and then has to try and see a game out against Aberdeen away.

In amongst all this Gough, a True Rangers Captain, spends personal time with Katic and cannot sing his praises highly enough.

Something doesn't sit right with me as no one else has been treated that way.
 
Nah bollocks to this.

By that logic you're justifying Ojo getting as much game time as he currently is?

He might be offering something in training but he's certainly offering nothing on the park.

The league was lost last year, partly because Gerrard broke up a solid partnership in Goldson and Katic to shoehorn Worrall in.

Same thing is happening again.

Feyenoord's second goal - had that been Katic involved he'd be lucky to even make the 18.

Edouard, Christie, Forrest, Elyounoussi will tear Goldson and Helander apart.
Nah bollocks to this.

By that logic you're justifying Ojo getting as much game time as he currently is?

He might be offering something in training but he's certainly offering nothing on the park.

The league was lost last year, partly because Gerrard broke up a solid partnership in Goldson and Katic to shoehorn Worrall in.

Same thing is happening again.

Feyenoord's second goal - had that been Katic involved he'd be lucky to even make the 18.

Edouard, Christie, Forrest, Elyounoussi will tear Goldson and Helander apart.
League games this year so far the stats show our best pairing is Goldson & Helander.

Katic & Goldson played 6 league games 1 clean sheet. Dropped points twice (Celtic and hearts)
Helander & Goldson played 8 league games 5 clean sheets. Dropped points once (Aberdeen)

People go on like Gerrard has dropped Katic for no reason. He’s still a young guy who has a lot to learn and improve on. They just gave him and new contract so he’s obviously still in the long term plans.
 
The other aspect is partnership....say what you like about Goldson/Helender but they don't play well together. Neither has pace, and so they seem more hesitant.
Feyenoord, St Johnstone, Ross County, Hearts semi-final, Porto and Livi in the league.

They seemed to play well together in those games.
 
The longer Katic is out the team the better a player he gets. Gerrard and his backroom staff see him day in day out in training, they obviously know his strengths & weaknesses better than any of us. We have kept 18 clean sheets this season, all we heard last year was need a settled back 4 now after a bad result its drop Helander & Golsdon
Absolute nonsense proven by the fact that the thread was started when Katic was playing!
 
Davie Weir was as slow as a turtle but was one of our best ever defenders. Good defenders don't need bags of pace they need to be commanders and intelligent.

He made up for his lack of pace due to his positional sense.
He played alongside defensive beasts like Cuellar and Bougherra and they all complemented each other’s game. They also had great cover in Papac.

Then we had a manager in Walter who if he knew anything about football it was how to organise a defence and grind out wins.
 
I listened to the game on the radio and watched the highlights.
Most of our defenders looked poor last night, ok it's a big game away to Aberdeen but I expected better than that. Even Shagger rushing off his line needlessly aided Aberdeen's goal. Katic is being very hard done by IMO, should play most matches. No panic we got a draw, we are only 2 points behind, all to play for. We must improve our defensive play to win this league.
 
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?
Yes I totally agree...I still don’t understand why he signed an extension to his deal. Worral came in last year & played before him also & was worse than Goldson this year.

I don’t understand Gerard’s thinking here at all...the big man has much better attributes than both Goldson & Helander but is over looked.

The most annoying thing is Gerrard won’t drop Goldson & if by any luck he does Katic would need 3/4 games to get up to match fitness.

It’s no surprise to me over the last 2 seasons when Katic has started out playing through the Europa League Qualifiers we have looked a lot more solid. I’d like to see him on the right hand side of back 4 as he’s naturally right footed.

One word sums it up to me...Frustrating!!!
 
If Katic had been playing every game, the first time we dropped points we'd be reading the exact same threads about whoever wasn't getting a game.
 
Davie Weir was as slow as a turtle but was one of our best ever defenders. Good defenders don't need bags of pace they need to be commanders and intelligent.
It's handy if 1 of the 2 CB's has pace though. Sir David of Weir had King Carlos next to him who was way quicker than either Goldson, never mind Helander. Our FB's at the time weren't Flannigan kinds of slow either.
 
Gerrard has his favourites; for some bizarre reason Goldson is undroppable and he’s a protected species. Katic got dropped for way less than what Goldson’s messed up yet we’re continually told he’s our best CB etc.

Personally I’m unconvinced with Helendar but the fact we made such a large outlay for him has hampered us. Helendar was always going to be a first choice when we paid £3m for him, I don’t agree with it but that’s the way it is. I’d like to see Goldson dropped for 3/4 weeks to take him out the equation as it’s clear he’s struggling - some of the shouts I heard last night were over the top but I can see where fans are coming from.

Goldsons quick to point the finger at others but doesn’t ever seem to learn from mistakes he continually makes.

Katic absolutely deserves another run in the team but we know the chances of that are slim because Gerrard seems to think Goldson/Helendar works
 
Katic seems to get better each game he misses.
The goals last night were down to the collective, not individual errors.
 
I stand by the OP.

Katić is a better option than our current CB pairing.

He's better is the air, is better in the tackle, and is more of a goal threat.

Yet, he gets bombed out for the slightest mistake – and often gets bombed out when he's not even made any mistakes.
Meanwhile, Goldson, in particular, continues to make error after error and is seemingly untouchable.

It's utterly baffling the way Katić is treated.

I keep hearing that the way we're managing him is good for his development.
However, surely his development would be better served by him actually getting regular game time?
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.
 
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.

If Katic had performed the way Goldson or Helander did against Feyenoord he wouldn't even have made the squad last night.
 
I said on another thread last night, if Katic had put in a performance like Goldson and Helander did last night he wouldn't play again this season.

Maybe that's why we haven't seen him then, did you see him in the last OF game absolutely roasted
 
Katic seems to get better each game he misses.
The goals last night were down to the collective, not individual errors.
Ive been watching Goldson and Helander since they have been paired and honestly they are rank and are costing us goals, helander looks like a horse thats getting pulled up in a 3 mile race and Goldson is constantly turning his back in situations where no centre back should do that, both of them are hopeless defending a ball on the ground never mind heading as our last euro tie proved where Goldson was standing holding his hands up like he was being robbed instead of trying to get the ball off the guy, we need younger quicker and more talented guys in which we have sitting on the bench,i know Gerrard will not drop him but it could eventually cost him his job and us another season trophy less.
 
If I’m Katic (that means I’m not a born and bred Rangers fan etc), I’m thinking about asking for a move.

I’d be asking my boss why I get papped to the bench after a few sloppy games and others make bigger errors and keep their starting spot. I’m also asking him how I’m supposed to improve when I’m not playing and will only get game time against naff opposition.

“But he got a new contract”. Yeah but I’m starting to think that’s so we can command a better fee when the inevitable happens and he asks if he can leave.
 
Errrr, the last OF I watched we lost because Goldson gifted them a goal. That’s a hell of a selective memory you’ve got. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the same happen again on Sunday when he thinks he’s Beckenbauer.

It is fuckin amazing how people have turned Goldson fucking up into Katic being roasted!!

It is quite impressive actually, if it wasn’t total bullshit. :))
 
It is fuckin amazing how people have turned Goldson fucking up into Katic being roasted!!

It is quite impressive actually, if it wasn’t total bullshit. :))

A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.
 
A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.

It is frustrating, I think he has done great things with our midfield with not a lot of cash spent. Morelos and Kent are our best players and are great attacking options.
His blindness is with the defence esp on the right hand side and it is this that is stopping us making that wee final push to start winning things
 
A lot of people pick sides and then stick to it. He could slip up a few more times between now and the end of the month and you’d still find a combination of excuses and attempts to shift the blame elsewhere.

I like Goldson and to be honest for most of the last couple of months I felt he sorted himself out and took it up a notch. But that’s a few very costly mistakes in quick succession now, and my main gripe is of course, that he keeps his spot regardless. To me that’s absolute bollocks. Gerrard’s done a lot of great work here, but I genuinely fear his loyalty to one or two in particular is going to bite him on the arse and bite him hard. Because if we get close but ultimately fail to win titles, fans will start to call for change, especially when he’s seems to have favourites with whom he trusts blindly. Missing out on titles and having fans lose patience is surely not worth showing loyalty to one or two? Especially when you’ve done so much good work and are so close to finding a winning formula.

The loyalty to players / blind spot thing never sits easily with me.

Gerrard is far from flawless, but this idea that he deliberately overlooks players simply because he likes others - personally, or whatever it is - strikes me as nonsense.

It's surely worth considering the reasons why he might prefer Goldson and Helander to Katic.

For a start Helander is a natural left sided player so that would explain why he gets a game before everyones' favourite Croat (no disresepct to our man Borna), so really the question is why Katic isn't getting in ahead of Goldson.

Gerrard seems to put great emphasis on training. How many times have we heard him say, "He's trained really well this week so deserves his place"? Perhaps he simply feels Katic doesn't train as well as Goldson?

I also think Gerrard likes his central defenders to be good with the ball at their feet.

Admittedly Goldson has looked suspect on occasion, but at his best - and it's been evident in the Europa League games - he appears more composed with the ball at his feet than Katic has tended to do.

We all love the Croat's blood and snotters approach to defending, but in the modern game centre halves need to have a lot more to their game than that and I can see why Gerrard feels his compatriot is the better option.

Which isn't to say Goldson is perfect, he clearly isn't, but that's why we snapped him up for a mere £3m.
The same can also be said of Helander.

I actually agree with the criticism of both Goldson and Helander's performances of late and always have a slightly uneasy feeling about them, but by and large it's been unfounded.

I think we have four very solid looking centre backs, but they will make mistakes.

The constant criticism of them though does begin to get personal and it would only take a couple of errors from Katic - and there's been more than that from him to date - before half this board would be howling for him to be binned again.
 
The loyalty to players / blind spot thing never sits easily with me.

Gerrard is far from flawless, but this idea that he deliberately overlooks players simply because he likes others - personally, or whatever it is - strikes me as nonsense.

It's surely worth considering the reasons why he might prefer Goldson and Helander to Katic.

For a start Helander is a natural left sided player so that would explain why he gets a game before everyones' favourite Croat (no disresepct to our man Borna), so really the question is why Katic isn't getting in ahead of Goldson.

Gerrard seems to put great emphasis on training. How many times have we heard him say, "He's trained really well this week so deserves his place"? Perhaps he simply feels Katic doesn't train as well as Goldson?

I also think Gerrard likes his central defenders to be good with the ball at their feet.

Admittedly Goldson has looked suspect on occasion, but at his best - and it's been evident in the Europa League games - he appears more composed with the ball at his feet than Katic has tended to do.

We all love the Croat's blood and snotters approach to defending, but in the modern game centre halves need to have a lot more to their game than that and I can see why Gerrard feels his compatriot is the better option.

Which isn't to say Goldson is perfect, he clearly isn't, but that's why we snapped him up for a mere £3m.
The same can also be said of Helander.

I actually agree with the criticism of both Goldson and Helander's performances of late and always have a slightly uneasy feeling about them, but by and large it's been unfounded.

I think we have four very solid looking centre backs, but they will make mistakes.

The constant criticism of them though does begin to get personal and it would only take a couple of errors from Katic - and there's been more than that from him to date - before half this board would be howling for him to be binned again.

That makes Katic sound like a heavily limited battering ram. Of course a big part of his game is his physicality but he’s a little bit more than that; although that physically would have been welcome last night. I’ll tell you what though, if Goldson is Gerrard’s idea of a ball playing centre half then we’re in trouble. Another thing, at Katic’s age he should be improving, you’d think before long he’d actually improve to a point of setting himself apart as the superior defender, he won’t do that picking splinters out his arse or playing the odd game against Hamilton or East Fife. I get why Helander plays and he has a lot of good attributes but he also has a glaring weakness I’m worried they’ll exploit on Sunday, and the way we play sort of leaves them open to exploiting it.

All of ours defenders seem like good defenders on their day, but fact is he has a couple of players he won’t shift and those players have actually cost us dearly in a few very big games this season. This isn’t a trophy winning side yet so we can’t simply swat all of this aside and give them the benefit of the doubt. But above all, having undroppable players just doesn’t send the right message at all.

I’d love to believe that there’s no favouritism, but there’s plenty of evidence for it. Shey Ojo is the perfect example, when you look at how often he starts, or is Gerrard’s go to guy from the bench, you really have to ask questions of what is going on, especially lately when Hearts appearance aside, his productivity has been little to nothing.
 
That makes Katic sound like a heavily limited battering ram. Of course a big part of his game is his physicality but he’s a little bit more than that; although that physically would have been welcome last night. I’ll tell you what though, if Goldson is Gerrard’s idea of a ball playing centre half then we’re in trouble. Another thing, at Katic’s age he should be improving, you’d think before long he’d actually improve to a point of setting himself apart as the superior defender, he won’t do that picking splinters out his arse or playing the odd game against Hamilton or East Fife. I get why Helander plays and he has a lot of good attributes but he also has a glaring weakness I’m worried they’ll exploit on Sunday, and the way we play sort of leaves them open to exploiting it.

All of ours defenders seem like good defenders on their day, but fact is he has a couple of players he won’t shift and those players have actually cost us dearly in a few very big games this season. This isn’t a trophy winning side yet so we can’t simply swat all of this aside and give them the benefit of the doubt. But above all, having undroppable players just doesn’t send the right message at all.

I’d love to believe that there’s no favouritism, but there’s plenty of evidence for it. Shey Ojo is the perfect example, when you look at how often he starts, or is Gerrard’s go to guy from the bench, you really have to ask questions of what is going on, especially lately when Hearts appearance aside, his productivity has been little to nothing.

Others have mentioned they feel Gerrard sees Katic and Edmundson as our longer term partnership and I think that's probably correct.

I'm pretty sure Gerrard values both players, but right now he feels Goldson and Helander are our best pairing and I think he's right - the best players we've faced all season have been in the Europa League where by and large both have looked excellent.

We need to assume the manager knows what he's doing and I think we'd all agree he's much better placed to make a decision on that than any of us are.

It's the inference that he's employing spurious or petty whims in selecting or omitting some players that gets me.

He's surely worthy of more respect than that?
 
Others have mentioned they feel Gerrard sees Katic and Edmundson as our longer term partnership and I think that's probably correct.

I'm pretty sure Gerrard values both players, but right now he feels Goldson and Helander are our best pairing and I think he's right - the best players we've faced all season have been in the Europa League where by and large both have looked excellent.

We need to assume the manager knows what he's doing and I think we'd all agree he's much better placed to make a decision on that than any of us are.

It's the inference that he's employing spurious or petty whims in selecting or omitting some players that gets me.

He's surely worthy of more respect than that?

Honestly, he’s a rookie manager with no managerial silverware on his CV and still makes some of the same mistakes a year and a half in, so the answer is no, he doesn’t really deserve any more respect than he already gets, which is a lot to be honest. Lesser names than Gerrard would come under a great deal more pressure, particularly last season; with that being said he’s done an excellent job overall. But people are quite right to ask questions about his selection after games like last night. By the way Goldson and Helander were very poor against Feyenoord. Goldson sold the jerseys in the OF game and again last night, big games and traditionally tough games, points dropped in all of them courtesy of his bullet proof number 1 pick.

It’s not uncommon for managers to have favourites or blind spots for certain players, Walter had it with Lee McCulloch. But you don’t get the benefit of the doubt or a free pass until you’re winning things. I suspect if we win on Sunday the nerves, anxieties and criticism will lessen a great deal.
 
He gets my vote. He has the ability to be better than both Goldson & Helandar. He is more than good enough at present to partner either. More game time will only accelerate his growth. So play him. If for no other reason than Goldson/Helandar does not seem to work as a pairing.
 
If Katić was playing like Goldson he would have been dropped weeks ago.

I don't understand how you can drop Katić for poor performances yet Goldson remains in the side every game.

He's a good defender but bloody frustrating. So laboured in possession, too causal, switches off, gets caught in possession and fires too many aimless balls up the park.
 
Errrr, the last OF I watched we lost because Goldson gifted them a goal. That’s a hell of a selective memory you’ve got. I wouldn’t be shocked to see the same happen again on Sunday when he thinks he’s Beckenbauer.

Katic was dreadful in the OF (as was Goldson) mistakes all over the place. The Livingstone game at Ibrox he had a nightmare as well. Just pointing out that there's mistakes in him too and yes I'm worried about Goldson on Sunday, really worried. Would I feel better if he was dropped for Katic ? Not sure.
 
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