Northern Ireland bears, how did you drive the change in the National teams songbook?

Tagsbear

Tagsbear

Well-Known Member
I think we need a bit of advice from you guys on how the Northern Ireland support managed to turn a similarly battered and bruised reputation in one that is rightly praised for being one of the best in the World.

What happened for fans to completely change the songbook? Was it pushed by fan groups, was it just done by word of mouth?
 
FortressVillage said:
I think there's a happy medium, from Northern Ireland myself and I'd hate to see us go full happy clapper if that makes sense?
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Yes the sash,Derrys walls etc without add ons need to stay plus we've plenty of Rangers chants and if people could get into their head that ftp and the Vatican isn't the proper words for FF and sing the proper version instead of just stop singing at that part then going to next part of song that would be great.If we drop all loyalist songs we just become another club that play in blue imo.
 
Tagsbear said:
I think we need a bit of advice from you guys on how the Northern Ireland support managed to turn a similarly battered and bruised reputation in one that is rightly praised for being one of the best in the World.

What happened for fans to completely change the songbook? Was it pushed by fan groups, was it just done by word of mouth?
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Great suggestion, Tags. One the club should adopt.
 
FortressVillage said:
I think there's a happy medium, from Northern Ireland myself and I'd hate to see us go full happy clapper if that makes sense?
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There's no need to drop the loyalist stuff(it doesn't mean much to me personally but I respect it does for many), the likes of Derrys Walls, for example is untouchable and won't get us in bother.

There isn't any need to banish acknowledgement or celebration of the clubs Protestant/Unionist background either, we can do all that whilst dropping the stuff that has us in the situation we're in now.
 
Thing is with northern Ireland games there was a period of time where you couldn't give tickets away for games so it's a lot easier to deal with then than it would've been if it was always packed as it is now
 
Craig McColl said:
It does make sense.What you wanting us to do drop everything associated with Protestant/Loyalist culture even if it doesn't have FTP or mention 19th Century Terrorists?If so we're another club in blue.
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Hardly. Our football clubs have an incredible history that we can celebrate. Not singing about Ulster doesn’t change that. There are people like myself who don’t sing that sort of stuff as it means nothing to me. I’m a rangers supporter and a football fan. I enjoy watching football. I think about tactics and players etc. Not what great war was fought in the old days.
 
Tagsbear said:
I think we need a bit of advice from you guys on how the Northern Ireland support managed to turn a similarly battered and bruised reputation in one that is rightly praised for being one of the best in the World.

What happened for fans to completely change the songbook? Was it pushed by fan groups, was it just done by word of mouth?
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Excellent post . A model we should look at 100%.
 
EverGer said:
Hardly. Our football clubs have an incredible history that we can celebrate. Not singing about Ulster doesn’t change that. There are people like myself who don’t sing that sort of stuff as it means nothing to me. I’m a rangers supporter and a football fan. I enjoy watching football. I think about tactics and players etc. Not what great war was fought in the old days.
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Well that's fine.Others myself included don't want to just bend over and drop everything that's made the club and support for decades.I'm not advocating FTPing or shouting about 19th Century Terrorist b's.Just traditional songs that celebrate loyalist/orange culture that are intertwined with Rangers and the support whether people like yourself like it or not.Coyld you imagine the huddleboard even discussing dropping Irish Republican songs?
 
EverGer said:
Hardly. Our football clubs have an incredible history that we can celebrate. Not singing about Ulster doesn’t change that. There are people like myself who don’t sing that sort of stuff as it means nothing to me. I’m a rangers supporter and a football fan. I enjoy watching football. I think about tactics and players etc. Not what great war was fought in the old days.
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Thats the thing, there is no need to drop everything. Derrys Walls, for example, doesn't get us into bother and it allows folk that want to, to identify with their (and the clubs) roots.
 
Tagsbear said:
There's no need to drop the loyalist stuff(it doesn't mean much to me personally but I respect it does for many), the likes of Derrys Walls, for example is untouchable and won't get us in bother.

There isn't any need to banish acknowledgement or celebration of the clubs Protestant/Unionist background either, we can do all that whilst dropping the stuff that has us in the situation we're in now.
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I agree fully, any mention of the pope or 19th Century Terrorists has to go.
 
Craig McColl said:
So those 2 things have played no part in Rangers history or where we've drawn our support to become the size of club we are?Ok then.Tell you what let's just drop everything we are because people that hate us don't like it.
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For over 100 years we have been the biggest club in Scotland's biggest city. Now the world's most decorated club.We are a club with a Protestant heritage, of course we are, and that identity has increased the number of our support substantially, agreed. But to suggest we're nothing without loyalist songs is just nonsense. I'm not suggesting we totally rip up the song book, but maybe if some were to remember that first and foremost are a football team, we might avoid our haters getting their way, and effectively killing is off. God knows they've been trying for long enough, and guess who's loading the bullets?

Just another team in blue? Give us a break
 
As an ulster bear I don't think we need to stop our ulster culture . We just need to stop the add ons.after all Tbb with an alternative to the word 19th Century Terrorist blood (celtic scum maybe )would still be a great rousing song and the scum would still hear it without us saying it .win win
 
Craig McColl said:
It does make sense.What you wanting us to do drop everything associated with Protestant/Loyalist culture even if it doesn't have FTP or mention 19th Century Terrorists?If so we're another club in blue.
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You think it’s the loyalist/Protestant stuff that makes us special and not just another club in blue.
It sets us apart of that there’s no doubt.

Special? Only to the ones that sing them.
 
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Craig McColl said:
It does make sense.What you wanting us to do drop everything associated with Protestant/Loyalist culture even if it doesn't have FTP or mention 19th Century Terrorists?If so we're another club in blue.
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Aye your right we can keep going as we are, get booted out of europe, lose a big income stream and go back to banter years. If your that desperate to sing go to a sash bash with like minded
 
FortressVillage said:
I think there's a happy medium, from Northern Ireland myself and I'd hate to see us go full happy clapper if that makes sense?
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Happy Clappers!!!, the majority of our fans are not asking for this, they want the party songs cut out and the many songs in the Rangers songbook used instead. Many supports up and down the land manage to create a great atmosphere without resorting to singing sectarian songs or going the full opposite as happy clapppers.
 
GF1872 said:
Aye your right we can keep going as we are, get booted out of europe, lose a big income stream and go back to banter years. If your that desperate to sing go to a sash bash with like minded
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You're really misunderstanding me here.I've said repeatedly that I'm not advocating shouting about 19th Century Terrorist B's and FTPing I haven't done either of those things for years at games.But it seems that some are saying lets throw away our traditional loyalist songs that have no mention of either just because people that hate us anyway don't like them.So throw away the traditions and history the things that have made the club more than a club whether you or others like that fact or not.
 
Craig McColl said:
You're really misunderstanding me here.I've said repeatedly that I'm not advocating shouting about 19th Century Terrorist B's and FTPing I haven't done either of those things for years at games.But it seems that some are saying lets throw away our traditional loyalist songs that have no mention of either just because people that hate us anyway don't like them.So throw away the traditions and history the things that have made the club more than a club whether you or others like that fact or not.
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It’s a PC world now like it or not, either roll with it or get left behind. Simple
 
for this change to take hold and work ,would require every one buying into it and being 100% behind the initiative,its clear that there is a sizeable element in our support who are not up for this no matter what
 
Craig McColl said:
It does make sense.What you wanting us to do drop everything associated with Protestant/Loyalist culture even if it doesn't have FTP or mention 19th Century Terrorists?If so we're another club in blue.
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And there is that selfish stupidity which is going to destroy our club...The Rangers I love were not founded on religious bigotry nor sectarianism, nope the founding fathers ethos was hijacked and replaced with the politico/religious/paramilitary bullshit which plagues the club today.

How about the principle of less is more;

Supporting our armed forces is a beautiful thing and establishes our loyalty to our nation.

Our colours red, white and blue correspond to the flag of our nation.

Singing the national anthem further cements our loyalty to our nation.

FTP, 19th Century Terrorist, Bobby Sands etc gains us nothing, it shows us as being backward and entirely out of step with the ambitions of our progressive team, management and board who are on the brink of delivering our great club back to where it belongs!

Bigots want to be bigoted because it is inherent and they identify with others whom are bigoted, spare us the whataboutery, the yous are all handwringing appeasers etc. We are not, because we actually put the club first, we are capable of placing our religious, political and cultural leanings on hold when supporting Rangers.

The offending repertoire is ugly and embarrassing and has no place at a football match. It renders us an easy target given the current political situation in terms of nationalism in Scotland and the wider Brexit enmity with Europe. Einstein defines insanity as practicing the same experiment time after time expecting a different set of results...That is where we are if we don’t rap this in!!
 
Southpaws said:
And there is that selfish stupidity which is going to destroy our club...The Rangers I love were not founded on religious bigotry nor sectarianism, nope the founding fathers ethos was hijacked and replaced with the politico/religious/paramilitary bullshit which plagues the club today.

How about the principle of less is more;

Supporting our armed forces is a beautiful thing and establishes our loyalty to our nation.

Our colours red, white and blue correspond to the flag of our nation.

Singing the national anthem further cements our loyalty to our nation.

FTP, 19th Century Terrorist, Bobby Sands etc gains us nothing, it shows us as being backward and entirely out of step with the ambitions of our progressive team, management and board who are on the brink of delivering our great club back to where it belongs!

Bigots want to be bigoted because it is inherent and they identify with others whom are bigoted, spare us the whataboutery, the yous are all handwringing appeasers etc. We are not, because we actually put the club first, we are capable of placing our religious, political and cultural leanings on hold when supporting Rangers.

The offending repertoire is ugly and embarrassing and has no place at a football match. It renders us an easy target given the current political situation in terms of nationalism in Scotland and the wider Brexit enmity with Europe. Einstein defines insanity as practicing the same experiment time after time expecting a different set of results...That is where we are if we don’t rap this in!!
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Bingo. Brilliantly put.

Every single one of us should wrap their head around this post.
 
Southpaws said:
And there is that selfish stupidity which is going to destroy our club...The Rangers I love were not founded on religious bigotry nor sectarianism, nope the founding fathers ethos was hijacked and replaced with the politico/religious/paramilitary bullshit which plagues the club today.

How about the principle of less is more;

Supporting our armed forces is a beautiful thing and establishes our loyalty to our nation.

Our colours red, white and blue correspond to the flag of our nation.

Singing the national anthem further cements our loyalty to our nation.

FTP, 19th Century Terrorist, Bobby Sands etc gains us nothing, it shows us as being backward and entirely out of step with the ambitions of our progressive team, management and board who are on the brink of delivering our great club back to where it belongs!

Bigots want to be bigoted because it is inherent and they identify with others whom are bigoted, spare us the whataboutery, the yous are all handwringing appeasers etc. We are not, because we actually put the club first, we are capable of placing our religious, political and cultural leanings on hold when supporting Rangers.

The offending repertoire is ugly and embarrassing and has no place at a football match. It renders us an easy target given the current political situation in terms of nationalism in Scotland and the wider Brexit enmity with Europe. Einstein defines insanity as practicing the same experiment time after time expecting a different set of results...That is where we are if we don’t rap this in!!
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Again people really want to read what I'm saying.I do none of these things at the games that you are saying that I'm trying to support.
 
There was a slow shift at Windsor park. Some fans groups started off with small changes. For example if you heard a chant starting that was going to get fans into trouble groups of guys would start another chant straight away and try to sing over the offending chant. It took a while to be fair the guys over at ourweecountry.com had a fair bit to do with it. Getting the likes of Colin Murray on board was a good help as he promoted the fans and team on national radio every chance he got. There was a fair bit of resistance at the start but it got there in the end. Northern Ireland’s fans are now held in high esteem across Europe and the world and the republican element hate it as there’s now %^*& all they can complain about. Songs wise at least.
 
Education, political representation, modernisation and self reflection Is what is needed first and foremost. This “ no one likes us we don’t care “ attitude has to stop immediately. We should bloody care because that’s why we are here now. We as a support need to be much more intelligent going forward and set things in place to overhaul current practices. Most importantly we need to mobilise and strengthen our resources to promote our wonderful attributes, to protect our reputation and integrity and to proactively combat our enemies. I’ve written articles on such issues elsewhere highlighting my complete bewilderment at how weak Rangers fans representations are in places of power and influence and how there is no credible proactive source of defence capable of dealing with attacks on us. There are indeed lessons to be learned from Norn Iron but not just football fans. For all the faults you could aim at Norn iron Protestant civilians what I can categorically state is that we take no shit when it comes to attacks on our communities, culture and heritage etc. We have traditionally always had a strong political backing to combat the enemy either through the media or parliament. We have certain groups and organisations capable of galvanising and mobilising support when required. We have protested and fought all our lives for parity and justice. Why are Rangers fans in Scotland in the position they are in? Everything British/ Protestant/ Orange/ Rangers/ loyalist etc is under attack in Scotland and yet you all continue to sit and do nothing. ? IRAceltic and their republican supporting juggernaut controls everything and occupy or influence most of the positions of power in the country , Media, Sports, policing, government, banking, land etc etc. Why? How? ( Even Lawwell has been on the boards of the SPFL, SFA and now UEFA. It’s crazy, who have Rangers got? This is the real big big problem we all as Rangers fans face. It needs to change now. There is a popular song sung at Norn iron matches - ‘Stand up for the Ulster men’, when is Scotland going to stand up??
 
crackersbear said:
There was a slow shift at Windsor park. Some fans groups started off with small changes. For example if you heard a chant starting that was going to get fans into trouble groups of guys would start another chant straight away and try to sing over the offending chant. It took a while to be fair the guys over at ourweecountry.com had a fair bit to do with it. Getting the likes of Colin Murray on board was a good help as he promoted the fans and team on national radio every chance he got. There was a fair bit of resistance at the start but it got there in the end. Northern Ireland’s fans are now held in high esteem across Europe and the world and the republican element hate it as there’s now %^*& all they can complain about. Songs wise at least.
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Thanks bud.

Someone on Twitter mentioned Gary McAllister (not our assitant manager) as a guy that played a big part in doing this, are you aware of him? Is he a Rangers fan and if so would he be someone the club should maybe speak to for advice?
 
Araghaidal said:
It's 2019 and you think that singing about an event that happened in a different city, in a different country, 330 years ago is relevant and appropriate in your support of Rangers?
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I'm assuming you'll write to the SFA about the Scots national team anthem.I don't see the problem with it as long as the song doesn't mention another group of people in a derogatory fashion.This is what I and others talk about.24 hours on almost and already people in our own support are trying to move the goalposts on to songs that weren't the problem as far as getting reported.
 
Getting back to the original question, the change was driven by the NI fans themselves. In some cases self policing in the stands, can remember one game in particular a song was started and a fan from the back of the stand ran down and told the lads to stop singing that and it faded out.

It will take time but needs to be driven from the ground up, ie from the fans not the club.

What you sing or don’t sing at a football match shouldn’t define who or what you are, I see many of the same faces at NI games as I do travelling for our games.

Change needs to happen and needs to happen relatively quickly, talks need to happen within the fans, the international break coming up would be an ideal time to do something about it.
 
Craig McColl said:
Well that's fine.Others myself included don't want to just bend over and drop everything that's made the club and support for decades.I'm not advocating FTPing or shouting about 19th Century Terrorist b's.Just traditional songs that celebrate loyalist/orange culture that are intertwined with Rangers and the support whether people like yourself like it or not.Coyld you imagine the huddleboard even discussing dropping Irish Republican songs?
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Who gives a %^*& a out the huddleboard, they're not getting stands closed.
 
HenningBerg said:
Grow up or ship out . The club don’t want the songs , that’s the end of it .
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Aye no bother will hand my season ticket in today.As I've already stated numerous times on this thread I haven't shouted FTP or 19th Century Terrorist B's at the games since the club told us to stop in the 00s.
 
Bowery Boy said:
If you think that loyalism and orangeism is what sets this club apart, then I stand by my comment.
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I obviously don't think that's the only thing.But it's played a large part and for people to say it hasn't is bullshit the same as saying %^*& it we're going to do away with all of that just like that even if songs are only offensive to people that are bigots.
 
From my recollection, at the beginning the singing at NI games was choreographed. Someone with a megaphone started the songs and the crowd joined in. If someone started a sectarian song, the guy with the megaphone would drown them out and start another song. After a while it became ingrained in the support that you just didn't sing certain songs. The megaphone is no longer required. To be fair it was a lot smaller crowd that we have at Ibrox so it was easier to implement. However it could work well at away games. I know someone from the Union Bears does this so the club need to work closely with them to come up with a plan.

The interesting thing is that it spread to most teams in the Irish League. For anyone who watched Linfield playing on Thursday you wouldn't have heard one sectarian song and their supporters are some of the hardest line loyalists around.

Having lived in NI all my life and like many others suffered directly from the troubles, it depresses me to hear songs about the IRA, Bobby Sands, the pope etc. Football is an escape and I love to hear songs about our team. There is also no problem with celebrating our culture.
 
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