Northern Ireland bears, how did you drive the change in the National teams songbook?

Giantblue said:
Getting back to the original question, the change was driven by the NI fans themselves. In some cases self policing in the stands, can remember one game in particular a song was started and a fan from the back of the stand ran down and told the lads to stop singing that and it faded out.

It will take time but needs to be driven from the ground up, ie from the fans not the club.

What you sing or don’t sing at a football match shouldn’t define who or what you are, I see many of the same faces at NI games as I do travelling for our games.

Change needs to happen and needs to happen relatively quickly, talks need to happen within the fans, the international break coming up would be an ideal time to do something about it.
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Great post
 
One of the biggest challenges we have in Scotland culturally - and as a support - is that we have people socially conditioned into NI history and loyalist culture to the extent where the actual history and the actual culture become second nature to an assumed standpoint which doesn't always match the reality.

Go to a loyalist parade and the surrounding celebrations in Scotland then go to and attend one across the water.

You'll see the difference between perception and reality very, very clearly.

I grew up in Ayrshire but have family (Dad had 7 siblings, Mum had 5, big family) in Belfast, Portadown, Coleraine, Londonderry, Donegal, Cavan, Dublin and Galway.

I've spent half my life in NI/ROI and it's very obvious to see the difference between the two mainlands.

There's a big difference between being a Unionist and being proud of our history and tradition and being a separitist off the back of perception. My papa used to say a true Unionist will try and bring people together to be better, not encourage a separatist mentality.

He was one of the few people I knew to have lived throughout so many crucial points in British and Irish history to the extent where he could see culture shifting differently in the two mainlands and draw very eye opening comparisons.

One of the biggest issues here is the different subjects.

In NI you'll be more likely to meet people who's experiences have dictated they have opinions on different subject matters. Religion, politics, nationalism ,unionism, parlamilatiry movements and general history to name a few. You'll find across the water that these views are independent of the others (that's not to say they don't always align) but in Scotland's it's more of a one size fits all. An opinion in one subject tends to be uniform across them all and that's a problem.

Its ok to disagree with Catholicism fundamentals and values, but have very very close Catholic friends and acquaintances. It's ok to see yourself as British but be accepting of those that don't. It's ok to be disgusted with the IRAs campaign of terror but at the same time understand that not every Irish person supports what they did and have relationships with them accordingly.

When you cross the subjects, some people can be Catholic and completely against a United Ireland. Some can be Protestant but have no interest in Rangers. Unionists can be supportive of the Catholic faith and some Catholics see themselves as British, many ROI citizens see themselves as Unionists and British, especially in Donegal and Cavan.

In Scotland there seems to more of a mentality - especially in younger groups - of being in camp x so y and z are automatically assumed. These generalisations are a problem. (Not all the Scottish loyalist/Unionist community, obviously, but a majority for sure)

In Scotland, we have added two football teams into the mix which just fuels enormous passion and actually makes it easier to be a bucket rather than separate issues.

Socially, there's a big difference between NI and Scotland.

The context here is that what the NI national team and the likes of Linfield have accomplished in eradicating songs from the games will be so much harder for us because of these differences.

But it's not just the responsibility of football, and this is where were being let down. This isn't a football problem, it's a social problem - and it is a problem.

If the Union Bears can embrace positive change and be the megaphone that drowns out anything else than we could hit the ground running here, but there will be instances of falling at the hurdles, as shown by some of the replies on here.

If they don't then hopefully the old guard Blue Order can.

I'd be a huge advocate of Rangers running social cross community working groups across the central belt where education into the differences between a football club and the often consolidated aspects to help the younger generations separate. Not dilute their opinions, but just seperate them.

NI isn't a fragmented community anymore, it's actually more United than seperated but there's a long way still to go obviously. But comparing it to 25 years ago shows tremendous progress.

In Scotland we never had to deal with what our brothers and sisters did across the water and when you detach and look at how they're living their lives today, we could learn a lot from it.

I love this football club, out with my family and close friends, it's the most important thing in my life and it's time for us to change, it's time for us to have difficult conversations, it's time for us to try and educate.

If we don't, then we won't have a stable enough framework and movement in place with enough control and structure to defend against them coming after Derry's Walls because of the word die, or Follow Follow because 7 people sang a line wrong.

And you can bet your arse that's what they're gonna do. It was said 15 years ago that the BB was just the start and it is. We should have organised and mobilised then, now we're 15 years behind schedule - we can't risk adding anymore time to that.

The young team need to see the message they think they're delivering in support of those across the water, doesn't actually have the same defiant need as it did 30 years ago.

Go across the water and reference the IRA as much as you do at a Rangers game and youd get a fucking slap for those letters coming out of your mouth far too bloody often.
 
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BrooklynBlue said:
No one is doing mental gymnastics - we don't need to. 3000 people missing from Thursday inform us of the consequences.

Do you trust elements of the support to stop with the add-ons and quick bursts of tunes? Tomorrow will be very interesting.
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Well they did after 05 so yes I do.
 
After all the hard work that’s been put in to get back to top and we are going to throw it all away and it will happen.
 
unfortunately what we think is right and what we think is wrong means nothing anymore it’s what is harming the club that matters.

I don’t give a %^*& what anyone else sings it doesn’t bother me in the slightest I think people should sing what they want but now that’s irrelevant. We need to look at the bigger picture the club is sufferings and won’t be long before it’s financial harm and that means a lot more than whether I think I should be allowed to sing certain songs.


On a side note I believe singing about dead people to be worse than singing about hating people but that’s just my opinion.
 
Minkia said:
The perception of Rangers identity as a British/Unionist/Loyalist club is well cemented in popular culture and is not going to be eradicated anytime soon. I certainly don't believe is it dependent on the singing of certain songs, going forward.

The Sash My Father Wore may have had resonance at a time when the Orange Order had significantly more political influence and a larger membership (in the bygone days of yore). Is there really a case for it continuing to be heard at a Rangers game in 2019?

Derry's Walls? We can't even get the words right, so I'm not convinced it is quite as totemic as some on here would have you believe.

There is a time and place for all things and, for the singing of the above songs, I'm not convinced it's at a football match.
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I’m not in agreement with you mate or wAnting to debate

But The amount who get the words (really just the one word) wrong to BSOI is annoying as %^*& for me
 
CupidStunt said:
One of the biggest challenges we have in Scotland culturally - and as a support - is that we have people socially conditioned into NI history and loyalist culture to the extent where the actual history and the actual culture become second nature to an assumed standpoint which doesn't always match the reality.

Go to a loyalist parade and the surrounding celebrations in Scotland then go to and attend one across the water.

You'll see the difference between perception and reality very, very clearly.

I grew up in Ayrshire but have family (Dad had 7 siblings, Mum had 5, big family) in Belfast, Portadown, Coleraine, Londonderry, Donegal, Cavan, Dublin and Galway.

I've spent half my life in NI/ROI and it's very obvious to see the difference between the two mainlands.

There's a big difference between being a Unionist and being proud of our history and tradition and being a separitist off the back of perception. My papa used to say a true Unionist will try and bring people together to be better, not encourage a separatist mentality.

He was one of the few people I knew to have lived throughout so many crucial points in British and Irish history to the extent where he could see culture shifting differently in the two mainlands and draw very eye opening comparisons.

One of the biggest issues here is the different subjects.

In NI you'll be more likely to meet people who's experiences have dictated they have opinions on different subject matters. Religion, politics, nationalism ,unionism, parlamilatiry movements and general history to name a few. You'll find across the water that these views are independent of the others (that's not to say they don't always align) but in Scotland's it's more of a one size fits all. An opinion in one subject tends to be uniform across them all and that's a problem.

Its ok to disagree with Catholicism fundamentals and values, but have very very close Catholic friends and acquaintances. It's ok to see yourself as British but be accepting of those that don't. It's ok to be disgusted with the IRAs campaign of terror but at the same time understand that not every Irish person supports what they did and have relationships with them accordingly.

When you cross the subjects, some people can be Catholic and completely against a United Ireland. Some can be Protestant but have no interest in Rangers. Unionists can be supportive of the Catholic faith and some Catholics see themselves as British, many ROI citizens see themselves as Unionists and British, especially in Donegal and Cavan.

In Scotland there seems to more of a mentality - especially in younger groups - of being in camp x so y and z are automatically assumed. These generalisations are a problem. (Not all the Scottish loyalist/Unionist community, obviously, but a majority for sure)

In Scotland, we have added two football teams into the mix which just fuels enormous passion and actually makes it easier to be a bucket rather than separate issues.

Socially, there's a big difference between NI and Scotland.

The context here is that what the NI national team and the likes of Linfield have accomplished in eradicating songs from the games will be so much harder for us because of these differences.

But it's not just the responsibility of football, and this is where were being let down. This isn't a football problem, it's a social problem - and it is a problem.

If the Union Bears can embrace positive change and be the megaphone that drowns out anything else than we could hit the ground running here, but there will be instances of falling at the hurdles, as shown by some of the replies on here.

If they don't then hopefully the old guard Blue Order can.

I'd be a huge advocate of Rangers running social cross community working groups across the central belt where education into the differences between a football club and the often consolidated aspects to help the younger generations separate. Not dilute their opinions, but just seperate them.

NI isn't a fragmented community anymore, it's actually more United than seperated but there's a long way still to go obviously. But comparing it to 25 years ago shows tremendous progress.

In Scotland we never had to deal with what our brothers and sisters did across the water and when you detach and look at how they're living their lives today, we could learn a lot from it.

I love this football club, out with my family and close friends, it's the most important thing in my life and it's time for us to change, it's time for us to have difficult conversations, it's time for us to try and educate.

If we don't, then we won't have a stable enough framework and movement in place with enough control and structure to defend against them coming after Derry's Walls because of the word die, or Follow Follow because 7 people sang a line wrong.

And you can bet your arse that's what they're gonna do. It was said 15 years ago that the BB was just the start and it is. We should have organised and mobilised then, now we're 15 years behind schedule - we can't risk adding anymore time to that.

The young team need to see the message they think they're delivering in support of those across the water, doesn't actually have the same defiant need as it did 30 years ago.

Go across the water and reference the IRA as much as you do at a Rangers game and youd get a fucking slap for those letters coming out of your mouth far too bloody often.
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Appreciate the time and thought you put into that. It deserves to be widely read and digested.
 
But The amount who get the words (really just the one word) wrong to BSOI is annoying as %^*& for me[/QUOTE]
I get more annoyed about the amount of people that don't know the correct words to FF.1 of the best club songs out and people need to add FTP and the Vatican..
 
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It was a response to the negativity that was being shone on the fans and the team due to the songs and the whole Lennon thing. Correction through shame if you will.

Led by supporters and NISC’s they drowned out controversial songs, started new catchy songs and on a handful of occasions a few boneheads who couldn’t get it through their skulls left with a sore face and a clear message they weren’t welcome back.

A successful PR campaign also helped with guys like McAllister and Boyd doing community outreach work funded in part by the fans which got the media on board with praise that helped to mould the positive image.
 
Craig McColl said:
Yes the sash,Derrys walls etc without add ons need to stay plus we've plenty of Rangers chants and if people could get into their head that ftp and the Vatican isn't the proper words for FF and sing the proper version instead of just stop singing at that part then going to next part of song that would be great.If we drop all loyalist songs we just become another club that play in blue imo.
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Totally agree apart from your last point.

We will never be just another club that plays in blue.
 
Craig McColl said:
Yes the sash,Derrys walls etc without add ons need to stay plus we've plenty of Rangers chants and if people could get into their head that ftp and the Vatican isn't the proper words for FF and sing the proper version instead of just stop singing at that part then going to next part of song that would be great.If we drop all loyalist songs we just become another club that play in blue imo.
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If we drop all loyalist songs Rangers become an even greater club in world football. No place for political nonsense at a football match.
 
Doctor Rock said:
From my recollection, at the beginning the singing at NI games was choreographed. Someone with a megaphone started the songs and the crowd joined in. If someone started a sectarian song, the guy with the megaphone would drown them out and start another song. After a while it became ingrained in the support that you just didn't sing certain songs. The megaphone is no longer required. To be fair it was a lot smaller crowd that we have at Ibrox so it was easier to implement. However it could work well at away games. I know someone from the Union Bears does this so the club need to work closely with them to come up with a plan.

The interesting thing is that it spread to most teams in the Irish League. For anyone who watched Linfield playing on Thursday you wouldn't have heard one sectarian song and their supporters are some of the hardest line loyalists around.

Having lived in NI all my life and like many others suffered directly from the troubles, it depresses me to hear songs about the IRA, Bobby Sands, the pope etc. Football is an escape and I love to hear songs about our team. There is also no problem with celebrating our culture.
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Great post from someone who knows more than most. Football is an escape and a football stadium should be a place to escape bigotry.
 
Doctor Rock said:
From my recollection, at the beginning the singing at NI games was choreographed. Someone with a megaphone started the songs and the crowd joined in. If someone started a sectarian song, the guy with the megaphone would drown them out and start another song. After a while it became ingrained in the support that you just didn't sing certain songs. The megaphone is no longer required. To be fair it was a lot smaller crowd that we have at Ibrox so it was easier to implement. However it could work well at away games. I know someone from the Union Bears does this so the club need to work closely with them to come up with a plan.

The interesting thing is that it spread to most teams in the Irish League. For anyone who watched Linfield playing on Thursday you wouldn't have heard one sectarian song and their supporters are some of the hardest line loyalists around.

Having lived in NI all my life and like many others suffered directly from the troubles, it depresses me to hear songs about the IRA, Bobby Sands, the pope etc. Football is an escape and I love to hear songs about our team. There is also no problem with celebrating our culture.
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To be honest this deserves a thread of its own, possibly a sticky ? And sent to the club and union bears .

The time for messing around on this has long gone . Action and urgent action is required .

@mdingwall @Greg Marshall @David Edgar
 
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Craig McColl said:
Coyld you imagine the huddleboard even discussing dropping Irish Republican songs?
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Look at it this way imagine we are winning awards and acclaim everywhere we go and they are still singing about the IRA. Imagine what that would do for our respective reputations.

This would hurt them and our enemies in politics and the media infinitely more than hearing us sing the BB every week, which is what they'd love us to keep doing.
 
spirit_of_93 said:
Look at it this way imagine we are winning awards and acclaim everywhere we go and they are still singing about the IRA. Imagine what that would do for our respective reputations.

This would hurt them and our enemies in politics and the media infinitely more than hearing us sing the BB every week, which is what they'd love us to keep doing.
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We stopped before and guess what they carried on as usual and no 1 said a thing.Will be the same this time I heard all this crap in 05 if we do this then they'll move onto them.It's not going to happen because the same people are in positions of power in the press and it's even worse now than then in politics.And looks like I need to say it for the umpteenth time I'm not advocating singing the BB or anything that goes on about 19th Century Terrorists far from it as that horse bolted in 05 and I'm fully on board with not singing those songs.
 
Craig McColl said:
We stopped before and guess what they carried on as usual and no 1 said a thing.Will be the same this time I heard all this crap in 05 if we do this then they'll move onto them.It's not going to happen because the same people are in positions of power in the press and it's even worse now than then in politics.And looks like I need to say it for the umpteenth time I'm not advocating singing the BB or anything that goes on about 19th Century Terrorists far from it as that horse bolted in 05 and I'm fully on board with not singing those songs.
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The Northern Ireland fans have achieved what you say can't happen despite a similar set of enemies in politics and the media.

There will be a different route for us that doesn't involve dropping everything, but it would require adopting a songbook more in check with the 21st century rather than one for the troubles era. Or we can carry on as now and pretend it's everyone else's fault and nothing can be done. The choice is ours.
 
4204350, member: 200"]Is Northern Ireland just another nation in green?[/QUOTE]
International football is different beast as you well know.Could you see someone telling the Barcelona fans see this Catalonia thing you've always had just do away with it today.Athletc Bilbao the same do away with your identity and culture lads some people are offended by it even when you sing songs that don't have offensive words in it so you've just to do away with it.
 
spirit_of_93 said:
The Northern Ireland fans have achieved what you say can't happen despite a similar set of enemies in politics and the media.

There will be a different route for us that doesn't involve dropping everything, but it would require adopting a songbook more in check with the 21st century rather than one for the troubles era. Or we can carry on as now and pretend it's everyone else's fault and nothing can be done. The choice is ours.
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I think we broadly agree mate tbh.
 
Southpaws said:
And there is that selfish stupidity which is going to destroy our club...The Rangers I love were not founded on religious bigotry nor sectarianism, nope the founding fathers ethos was hijacked and replaced with the politico/religious/paramilitary bullshit which plagues the club today.

How about the principle of less is more;

Supporting our armed forces is a beautiful thing and establishes our loyalty to our nation.

Our colours red, white and blue correspond to the flag of our nation.

Singing the national anthem further cements our loyalty to our nation.

FTP, 19th Century Terrorist, Bobby Sands etc gains us nothing, it shows us as being backward and entirely out of step with the ambitions of our progressive team, management and board who are on the brink of delivering our great club back to where it belongs!

Bigots want to be bigoted because it is inherent and they identify with others whom are bigoted, spare us the whataboutery, the yous are all handwringing appeasers etc. We are not, because we actually put the club first, we are capable of placing our religious, political and cultural leanings on hold when supporting Rangers.

The offending repertoire is ugly and embarrassing and has no place at a football match. It renders us an easy target given the current political situation in terms of nationalism in Scotland and the wider Brexit enmity with Europe. Einstein defines insanity as practicing the same experiment time after time expecting a different set of results...That is where we are if we don’t rap this in!!
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Fantastic post that just nails it!
 
Tagsbear said:
There's no need to drop the loyalist stuff(it doesn't mean much to me personally but I respect it does for many), the likes of Derrys Walls, for example is untouchable and won't get us in bother.

There isn't any need to banish acknowledgement or celebration of the clubs Protestant/Unionist background either, we can do all that whilst dropping the stuff that has us in the situation we're in now.
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There’s been thousands of posts on this forum over the last 24 hrs but this above nails it bang on .
 
spirit_of_93 said:
The Northern Ireland fans have achieved what you say can't happen despite a similar set of enemies in politics and the media.

There will be a different route for us that doesn't involve dropping everything, but it would require adopting a songbook more in check with the 21st century rather than one for the troubles era. Or we can carry on as now and pretend it's everyone else's fault and nothing can be done. The choice is ours.
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I think we broadly agree tbh
 
EndOfDays said:
Last time we did a "what religion are you" poll in the lounge less than 25% voted prod.
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I'm an atheist but my identity is 100% Scottish Protestant. That means I have no religion in votes like that. Last time I tried to identify as an atheistic Protestant on here, l was shouted down by a few of the "real" Protestants.

For right minded,worldly wise people, we aren't quite our worst enemy, but we're shit at sticking together.
 
Southpaws said:
And there is that selfish stupidity which is going to destroy our club...The Rangers I love were not founded on religious bigotry nor sectarianism, nope the founding fathers ethos was hijacked and replaced with the politico/religious/paramilitary bullshit which plagues the club today.

How about the principle of less is more;

Supporting our armed forces is a beautiful thing and establishes our loyalty to our nation.

Our colours red, white and blue correspond to the flag of our nation.

Singing the national anthem further cements our loyalty to our nation.

FTP, 19th Century Terrorist, Bobby Sands etc gains us nothing, it shows us as being backward and entirely out of step with the ambitions of our progressive team, management and board who are on the brink of delivering our great club back to where it belongs!

Bigots want to be bigoted because it is inherent and they identify with others whom are bigoted, spare us the whataboutery, the yous are all handwringing appeasers etc. We are not, because we actually put the club first, we are capable of placing our religious, political and cultural leanings on hold when supporting Rangers.

The offending repertoire is ugly and embarrassing and has no place at a football match. It renders us an easy target given the current political situation in terms of nationalism in Scotland and the wider Brexit enmity with Europe. Einstein defines insanity as practicing the same experiment time after time expecting a different set of results...That is where we are if we don’t rap this in!!
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Outstanding post
 
The NI fans were lauded by the national media in the UK and everyone spoke well of them,also on match of the day by the pundits.
The fact that the ROI pay respects to the NI fan who died in France says we have to get a grip and that goes for all in this country,not just rangers fans.
I said in an other post,that I have sang these songs many times before,but I will stop now as I must put the club first.
Up until the news broke about this yesterday,I was really looking forward to this week,now I'm dreading it.
 
Doctor Rock said:
Having lived in NI all my life and like many others suffered directly from the troubles, it depresses me to hear songs about the IRA, Bobby Sands, the pope etc. Football is an escape and I love to hear songs about our team. There is also no problem with celebrating our culture.
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This is a key point.

If NI Bears aren't interested in this nonsense then it should be a piece of piss for those of us based in Scotland to eradicate ffs
 
Babaganoosh said:
This is a key point.

If NI Bears aren't interested in this nonsense then it should be a piece of piss for those of us based in Scotland to eradicate ffs
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I’m from Northern Ireland, I’m in a loyalist flute band, and have been going to Ibrox and Windsor Park since 87, I have sung those songs at both grounds for most of those years. Northern Ireland matches now are a far better experience since all the hardcore stuff was stamped out. I have no interest singing about the pope or bobby sands now. There is a time and place. We are still as British now as we were before. There is a bigger picture, we have to think Rangers first now. Be loud and proud but think about who we are representing.
 
Clogherbear said:
I’m from Northern Ireland, I’m in a loyalist flute band, and have been going to Ibrox and Windsor Park since 87, I have sung those songs at both grounds for most of those years. Northern Ireland matches now are a far better experience since all the hardcore stuff was stamped out. I have no interest singing about the pope or bobby sands now. There is a time and place. We are still as British now as we were before. There is a bigger picture, we have to think Rangers first now. Be loud and proud but think about who we are representing.
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Very well said.

It's a no brainer for our support to follow the NI supports lead here. It can be done and we can still be a formidable force behind our team.
 
Clogherbear said:
I’m from Northern Ireland, I’m in a loyalist flute band, and have been going to Ibrox and Windsor Park since 87, I have sung those songs at both grounds for most of those years. Northern Ireland matches now are a far better experience since all the hardcore stuff was stamped out. I have no interest singing about the pope or bobby sands now. There is a time and place. We are still as British now as we were before. There is a bigger picture, we have to think Rangers first now. Be loud and proud but think about who we are representing.
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So refreshing to hear mate .

I just hope some of our own can take heed .
 
Eagle Keeper said:
Education, political representation, modernisation and self reflection Is what is needed first and foremost. This “ no one likes us we don’t care “ attitude has to stop immediately. We should bloody care because that’s why we are here now. We as a support need to be much more intelligent going forward and set things in place to overhaul current practices. Most importantly we need to mobilise and strengthen our resources to promote our wonderful attributes, to protect our reputation and integrity and to proactively combat our enemies. I’ve written articles on such issues elsewhere highlighting my complete bewilderment at how weak Rangers fans representations are in places of power and influence and how there is no credible proactive source of defence capable of dealing with attacks on us. There are indeed lessons to be learned from Norn Iron but not just football fans. For all the faults you could aim at Norn iron Protestant civilians what I can categorically state is that we take no shit when it comes to attacks on our communities, culture and heritage etc. We have traditionally always had a strong political backing to combat the enemy either through the media or parliament. We have certain groups and organisations capable of galvanising and mobilising support when required. We have protested and fought all our lives for parity and justice. Why are Rangers fans in Scotland in the position they are in? Everything British/ Protestant/ Orange/ Rangers/ loyalist etc is under attack in Scotland and yet you all continue to sit and do nothing. ? IRAceltic and their republican supporting juggernaut controls everything and occupy or influence most of the positions of power in the country , Media, Sports, policing, government, banking, land etc etc. Why? How? ( Even Lawwell has been on the boards of the SPFL, SFA and now UEFA. It’s crazy, who have Rangers got? This is the real big big problem we all as Rangers fans face. It needs to change now. There is a popular song sung at Norn iron matches - ‘Stand up for the Ulster men’, when is Scotland going to stand up??
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Loads of posts on FF assume that we only have one, rather obvious, enemy. However, as an institution that is the most visible symbol of Unionism in Scotland, Rangers and its support are loathed by the increasing number of nationalists. Moreover, the left-leaning chattering class types who dominate the arts and media also share a distaste for Rangers. To top things off, 'working-class attitudes' are frowned on in an increasingly brainwashed virtue-signalling society.

One major outcome of the changes that have taken place in Scotland over the past half-century is that Rangers lack political nous and awareness at all levels. We have lost the sort the people who provide leadership and can get things done. The history of fan involvement over the past couple of decades shows some very good people being drowned out. Some Celtic fans seemed immediately to understand what the Whyte takeover meant and organised accordingly while most on our side relied on blind faith.

Rangers have essentially lost the professional middle-class. In my view a vicious cycle has developed where those who might naturally be attracted to the club have been scared off by the negative publicity. Much of the publicity is of course unfair given that comparable behaviour by Celtic fans is airbrushed but some isn't. It speaks volumes that we now have a generation of supporters - possibly two generations - who don't know the correct words to 'Follow, Follow', arguably one of the two most historically famous songs in football.

On another thread the majority blamed the support for the current situation and refused to blame the board. I think they're wrong because the club has to lead from the front. It has to recognise the very particular circumstances the club finds itself in and adapt.

I fear Dave King and other board members haven't really got a clue about wider political and social issues. We needed a powerful CEO who would understand that supporters had to become far more part of the club but also be made very much aware that they had a personal responsibility. In other words, a carrot-and-stick approach.

We just haven't had that and I genuinely fear that too much time has now passed.
 
deedle said:
Loads of posts on FF assume that we only have one, rather obvious, enemy. However, as an institution that is the most visible symbol of Unionism in Scotland, Rangers and its support are loathed by the increasing number of nationalists. Moreover, the left-leaning chattering class types who dominate the arts and media also share a distaste for Rangers. To top things off, 'working-class attitudes' are frowned on in an increasingly brainwashed virtue-signalling society.

One major outcome of the changes that have taken place in Scotland over the past half-century is that Rangers lack political nous and awareness at all levels. We have lost the sort the people who provide leadership and can get things done. The history of fan involvement over the past couple of decades shows some very good people being drowned out. Some Celtic fans seemed immediately to understand what the Whyte takeover meant and organised accordingly while most on our side relied on blind faith.

Rangers have essentially lost the professional middle-class. In my view a vicious cycle has developed where those who might naturally be attracted to the club have been scared off by the negative publicity. Much of the publicity is of course unfair given that comparable behaviour by Celtic fans is airbrushed but some isn't. It speaks volumes that we now have a generation of supporters - possibly two generations - who don't know the correct words to 'Follow, Follow', arguably one of the two most historically famous songs in football.

On another thread the majority blamed the support for the current situation and refused to blame the board. I think they're wrong because the club has to lead from the front. It has to recognise the very particular circumstances the club finds itself in and adapt.

I fear Dave King and other board members haven't really got a clue about wider political and social issues. We really needed a powerful CEO who would understand that supporters had to become far more part of the club but also be made very much aware that they had a personal responsibility. In other words, a carrot-and-stick approach.

We just haven't had that and I genuinely fear that too much time has now passed.
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Agree on the CEO ours is lightweight the sort of guy that would find his wife in bed with someone else he would make them both a cup.of tea.
 
EverGer said:
Hardly. Our football clubs have an incredible history that we can celebrate. Not singing about Ulster doesn’t change that. There are people like myself who don’t sing that sort of stuff as it means nothing to me. I’m a rangers supporter and a football fan. I enjoy watching football. I think about tactics and players etc. Not what great war was fought in the old days.
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Do you not find that rangers represent the scottish presbyterian/loyalist then?? Thats a genuine question btw not trying to cause an argument. When talking about history etc i feel the above i have mentioned is part of us
 
HenningBerg said:
I’ve reported you to admin .

8 posts in 2 years all of them in the last two days urging fans to keep singing TBB :rolleyes:
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My last account got banned by admins indefinitely due to me having opinions, this forum is full of happy clappy old bed wetters anyway
 
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