On this Day 1938: Italy win the World Cup

[drgriffen]

Italy defeat Hungary to become the first team to retain the World Cup:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_FIFA_World_Cup_Final

 

[Ticketybloo]

Read an article yonks ago basically saying that Mussolini had a big part in Italy winning the World cup.
If so just goes to show corruption ain't no new thing in the world of Footy.

 

[omegaman]

Read an article yonks ago basically saying that Mussolini had a big part in Italy winning the World cup.
If so just goes to show corruption ain't no new thing in the world of Footy.

Great documentary on Mussolini and other fascist dictators using football as a tool to promote the supremacy of their regimes and ideologies.

 

[PalefaceRedskin]

Read an article yonks ago basically saying that Mussolini had a big part in Italy winning the World cup.
If so just goes to show corruption ain't no new thing in the world of Footy.

Not sure he would have had much to do with the retention in 38. A big part in making sure the WC came to Italy in 34 and then a big part in making sure the big decisions went their way, at least according to legend. It was even claimed an Italian ref was given the second semi final and ensured the Italians got their preferred opponents, the Czechs.

Mussolini is obviously and quite rightly hated (except by the enablers very own Di Canio). I’m never sure though when I read accounts of this WC how much is truth and how much comes from journos who feel they are entitled to exaggerate or even fabricate because Mussolini was such a scumball.

 

[Unicorn]

World events had a big impact on this tournament - unsurprisingly in 1938.

Spain pulled out because of the civil war and ongoing fallout. Austria qualified but withdrew after being annexed by Nazi Germany. Most of the Austrian squad played for Germany who got papped out early. Shame.

Argentina and Uruguay refused to participate because it was the 2nd time in a row the competition would be held in Europe. Consequently only 3 non-European teams entered including the Dutch East Indies.

 

[omegaman]

World events had a big impact on this tournament - unsurprisingly in 1938.

Spain pulled out because of the civil war and ongoing fallout. Austria qualified but withdrew after being annexed by Nazi Germany. Most of the Austrian squad played for Germany who got papped out early. Shame.

Argentina and Uruguay refused to participate because it was the 2nd time in a row the competition would be held in Europe. Consequently only 3 non-European teams entered including the Dutch East Indies.

In the documentary I posted further up the page it talks about the Austrian Wunderteam and how they were one of the favourites for the title until their players were forced to play for Germany instead.

Matthias Sindelar, arguably the best player in the world at the time, refused and was later found dead in mysterious circumstances.

 

[drgriffen]

In the documentary I posted further up the page it talks about the Austrian Wunderteam and how they were one of the favourites for the title until their players were forced to play for Germany instead.

Matthias Sindelar, arguably the best player in the world at the time, refused and was later found dead in mysterious circumstances.

Article about Sindelar and his death:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/apr/03/sport.comment3

 

[Superrangers]

Great documentary on Mussolini and other fascist dictators using football as a tool to promote the supremacy of their regimes and ideologies.

Happening in the modern day with Man City and PSG.

 

[Superrangers]

Not sure he would have had much to do with the retention in 38. A big part in making sure the WC came to Italy in 34 and then a big part in making sure the big decisions went their way, at least according to legend. It was even claimed an Italian ref was given the second semi final and ensured the Italians got their preferred opponents, the Czechs.

Mussolini is obviously and quite rightly hated (except by the enablers very own Di Canio). I’m never sure though when I read accounts of this WC how much is truth and how much comes from journos who feel they are entitled to exaggerate or even fabricate because Mussolini was such a scumball.

Always hard to tell, as you say. Much comes down to the narrator and evidence is probably scant so long down the line.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Happening in the modern day with Man City and PSG.

I can't agree with you there.

Now only watched the first couple of minutes of that film/documentary but to equate these two clubs with the actions of the three fascist scum takes us off the map.

 

[Superrangers]

I can't agree with you there.

Now only watched the first couple of minutes of that film/documentary but to equate these two clubs with the actions of the three fascist scum takes us off the map.

Maybe you should watch some of the documentaries about human rights and politics in Qatar and the UAE. The BBC documentary about the kidnapping of Sheikh Mohammed’s daughters for daring to want freedom is probably a place to start and Dubai is seen as the most westernised of the Emirates.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Maybe you should watch some of the documentaries about human rights and politics in Qatar and the UAE. The BBC documentary about the kidnapping of Sheikh Mohammed’s daughters for daring to want freedom is probably a place to start and Dubai is seen as the most westernised of the Emirates.

Well, that's were you have me at a disadvantage as I haven't watched these docs.

But are you not something of a Liverpool fan too?

 

[Superrangers]

Well, that's were you have me at a disadvantage as I haven't watched these docs.

But are you not something of a Liverpool fan too?

Mate, I like Dubai as a tourist destination, never been to Abu Dhabi or Qatar but one of my uni flat mates lived all of his life as a Brit in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Bahrain and Qatar and he still lives in Dubai. He regards it as home, having only been to the UK for University and he has many local friends there but he paints a very black picture. Endemic corruption, appalling human rights, absolute control of the political agenda and media. He says people
in the West would be horrified at what goes on but you just don’t hear about. They play a very clever PR game, befriending the West but no-one should be fooled.

His wife is a teacher, teaching at some private school that is a mix of ex-pat kids and rich locals. One day, guys turned up to ‘collect’ a child after school. The kids were all going outside to be picked up. A teacher smelled a rat as these people weren’t the parents or family and it became apparent that is was an attempted kidnapping. Quickly they got the kids back into the school and the would be kidnappers left.

The school quickly got a letter or email out to parents to advise them of the event and warn them of the dangers.

Next day the Head and Deputy head were summoned to the government ministry, grilled about it and told they were being deported for sullying the name of Dubai. They were lucky that’s all they got.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Mate, I like Dubai as a tourist destination, never been to Abu Dhabi or Qatar but one of my uni flat mates lived all of his life as a Brit in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Bahrain and Qatar and he still lives in Dubai. He regards it as home, having only been to the UK for University and he has many local friends there but he paints a very black picture. Endemic corruption, appalling human rights, absolute control of the political agenda and media. He says people
in the West would be horrified at what goes on but you just don’t hear about. They play a very clever PR game, befriending the West but no-one should be fooled.

His wife is a teacher, teaching at some private school that is a mix of ex-pat kids and rich locals. One day, guys turned up to ‘collect’ a child after school. The kids were all going outside to be picked up. A teacher smelled a rat as these people weren’t the parents or family and it became apparent that is was an attempted kidnapping. Quickly they got the kids back into the school and the would be kidnappers left.

The school quickly got a letter or email out to parents to advise them of the event and warn them of the dangers.

Next day the Head and Deputy head were summoned to the government ministry, grilled about it and told they were being deported for sullying the name of Dubai. They were lucky that’s all they got.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. One of my things still to do is go to Israel, so I wouldn't be allowed into these countries in the first place.

However, getting back to football, I don't think there's any teams in Europe given the chance of an Arab sheik etc, as a sugar daddy, would knock them back. That's just a horrible, modern day fact of life.

 

[Superrangers]

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. One of my things still to do is go to Israel, so I wouldn't be allowed into these countries in the first place.

However, getting back to football, I don't think there's any teams in Europe given the chance of an Arab sheik etc, as a sugar daddy, would knock them back. That's just a horrible, modern day fact of life.

Do you mean the club itself (owners and staff) or the fans?

I genuinely don’t think Liverpool would swap their owners for a Sheikh and the German structure wouldn’t enable it to happen. Not sure what their fans opinion would be? Are they not strong on fan ownership? Same with Madrid and Barcelona? I guess clubs that are achieving nothing, like say a man city, would bite their hands off and sell their soul.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Do you mean the club itself (owners and staff) or the fans?

I genuinely don’t think Liverpool would swap their owners for a Sheikh and the German structure wouldn’t enable it to happen. Not sure what their fans opinion would be? Are they not strong on fan ownership? Same with Madrid and Barcelona? I guess clubs that are achieving nothing, like say a man city, would bite their hands off and sell their soul.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but are Liverpool and Man Utd not owned by yanks?

So the yanks have a great history in race relations?

And the two of these cities profited greatly one way or another from the slave trade? (As did Glasgow, probably)

What I'm trying to get across here, is where do we stop with the moralising?

Anyway neither of these clubs have a choice if their owners decide to bail out to some sheik or a Russian billionaire etc, etc.

As we have found out to decidedly the flip side of that coin.

 

[Superrangers]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but are Liverpool and Man Utd not owned by yanks?

So the yanks have a great history in race relations?

And the two of these cities profited greatly one way or another from the slave trade? (As did Glasgow, probably)

What I'm trying to get across here, is where do we stop with the moralising?

Anyway neither of these clubs have a choice if their owners decide to bail out to some sheik or a Russian billionaire etc, etc.

As we have found out to decidedly the flip side of that coin.

I don’t think you can equate ordinary people of a country necessarily to their leaders. The owners of city and PSG are responsible for what goes on in their countries. The Glazers and FSG are merely rich business people.

Anyway it should be down to the FA, UEFA and FIFA for controlling the ownership of clubs, although as they have shown, they cannot exactly be relied upon.

The thing is, it’s sport and there are rightly rules. They should be enforced and football clubs should not be used as political playthings or as a means of legitimising money, etc. The widespread allegations against Man City are appalling. They should face the stiffest of punishments if found guilty. When you think of what happened to us, over far less and being the victims of (potential) fraud, they should be kicked out of football.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

I don’t think you can equate ordinary people of a country necessarily to their leaders. The owners of city and PSG are responsible for what goes on in their countries. The Glazers and FSG are merely rich business people.

Anyway it should be down to the FA, UEFA and FIFA for controlling the ownership of clubs, although as they have shown, they cannot exactly be relied upon.

The thing is, it’s sport and there are rightly rules. They should be enforced and football clubs should not be used as political playthings or as a means of legitimising money, etc. The widespread allegations against Man City are appalling. They should face the stiffest of punishments if found guilty. When you think of what happened to us, over far less and being the victims of (potential) fraud, they should be kicked out of football.

You hit the nail firmly on the head there, UEFA and FIFA are corrupt to the core.

Another thing, after 2012, I make no bones about it my enjoyment of the game in general has gone and I'll never get it back. (So I don't know all about the allegations made against Man City)

All I can think about is revenge up here.

Which I suppose rules me out of football threads in general.

So time to shut my gob I suppose.

But I guess I'm still lacking in that dep't. ;-)

 

[Superrangers]

You hit the nail firmly on the head there, UEFA and FIFA are corrupt to the core.

Another thing, after 2012, I make no bones about it my enjoyment of the game in general has gone and I'll never get it back. (So I don't know all about the allegations made against Man City)

All I can think about is revenge up here.

Which I suppose rules me out of football threads in general.

So time to shut my gob I suppose.

But I guess I'm still lacking in that dep't. ;-)

It’s certainly not the game we all grew up loving, which is sad. Money has changed the game and not in a good way.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

It’s certainly not the game we all grew up loving, which is sad. Money has changed the game and not in a good way.

Spot on. However I suppose in a way because of religious (possibly political) reasons we and the filth have had an unfair advantage up here. But not to the scale it is elsewhere in the modern game.

The difference though between us and the filth is that they revel in having reduced our domestic game to a rubble, whereby us coming back up the leagues has meant no threat to them whatsoever.

You also have the quite extraordinary revamp in the game five years ago when it was decided by the other clubs that the club winning the title lost 240k in prize money but the team finishing second lost 680k. How could provincial clubs have voted for that.

And one of the corrupt cabal that did vote for it, is now the president of the SFA.

Un-fecking.

 

[Superrangers]

Spot on. However I suppose in a way because of religious (possibly political) reasons we and the filth have had an unfair advantage up here. But not to the scale it is elsewhere in the modern game.

The difference though between us and the filth is that they revel in having reduced our domestic game to a rubble, whereby us coming back up the leagues has meant no threat to them whatsoever.

You also have the quite extraordinary revamp in the game five years ago when it was decided by the other clubs that the club winning the title lost 240k in prize money but the team finishing second lost 680k. How could provincial clubs have voted for that.

And one of the corrupt cabal that did vote for it, is now the president of the SFA.

Un-fecking.

How much of our growth was religious or political though and how much was just being the best in the land? Hard to quantify?

The rest of your post is right though, the bheasts don’t care about competition or quality, only about being the best in however poor a set-up.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

How much of our growth was religious or political though and how much was just being the best in the land? Hard to quantify?

The rest of your post is right though, the bheasts don’t care about competition or quality, only about being the best in however poor a set-up.

What we do know is our club was formed for purely sporting reasons, unlike two other clubs.

Their first motive was to compete on an even keel with the likes of Queens Park and the like.

Do I think our club was Protestant in ethos from the get go? Yes and I'm immensely proud of that fact.

Others will be better qualified to date when the religious influence became a more important point of refence for our club.