Open letter to the club

babaji

Well-Known Member
Dont agree. The club were warned years ago that something needed done. Simply pleading with fans was not the answer then and it still isnt now.

Robertson gets paid a handsome some and Id expect someone on his salary to do more than smile on camera as he tries to avoid taking responsibility for problems at Ibrox.
What a load of nonsense. How about the offending fans take responsibility for their actions, the time has come when they have to accept that their actions are harming our/their club.
 

cooprfc

Well-Known Member
The club can't do anymore. It's time the fans took responsibility themselves and stopped passing the buck. It really is that simple.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
The Club have stated countless times, for a number of years (decades), in unequivocal terms that sectarian singing isn't welcome at Ibrox. You'd think that people would be responsible enough to take that on board.

The truth is that the club probably do have to engage more with the support which is a damning indictment on the level of intellect among some of our support! First of all in this day and age you wouldn't think that people would need to be told that sectarianism isn't tolerated, but not only have we as a support ignored that message for years we're not at the stage where the club have to 'engage' with UB, supporters clubs etc. It's embarrassing to be honest.

F*cking depressing man, the singing is harming Rangers ffs, it must stop.
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. You never get anywhere if you can’t defend yourself. I find it utterly repugnant that we have fans advocating reporting fellow fans, yet they don’t want to tackle the elephant in the room. It’s positively Spiers-esque.
How do we defend ourselves against this? By attacking our enemies from a position of weakness? Having a business as usual attitude? Moon howling?

Until we sort ourselves out we're in no position to defend ourselves especially when some fans are quite happy to drag our reputation through the mud.

As an aside what is this elephant in the room you speak of?
 

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
How do we defend ourselves against this? By attacking our enemies from a position of weakness? Having a business as usual attitude? Moon howling?

Until we sort ourselves out we're in no position to defend ourselves especially when some fans are quite happy to drag our reputation through the mud.

As an aside what is this elephant in the room you speak of?
By asking for the evidence of wrongdoing and getting clarity on the activities of FARE, iewhy they are so ready to attend so many of our games compared to everyone else.

The elephant is the consistently appalling behaviour of Celtc fans and why UEFA are unwilling to take them to task effectively.

We are perfectly entitled to ask for parity, when in the wrong or not. This nonsense about ‘a position of weakness’ that is being trotted out is rubbish. We are in a dialogue with UEFA and have every right to expect transparency,
 

BSPECIAL

Well-Known Member
By asking for the evidence of wrongdoing and getting clarity on the activities of FARE, iewhy they are so ready to attend so many of our games compared to everyone else.

The elephant is the consistently appalling behaviour of Celtc fans and why UEFA are unwilling to take them to task effectively.

We are perfectly entitled to ask for parity, when in the wrong or not. This nonsense about ‘a position of weakness’ that is being trotted out is rubbish. We are in a dialogue with UEFA and have every right to expect transparency,
We should be asking who or what FARE is.Who controls it.Who are their reps.What power do they hold in football,especially uefa. What games they attend and how they pick the games. A very sinister gang of devious people who seem to have a dangerous and discriminate agenda.
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
You're so wrong. Its because I care Im on here.

Does the Sash or Derry's Walls make you "pause for thought"?

What about FF? It mentions Dublin.

What about WATP or Rule Britannia?

My point is we DONT KNOW and the club needs to sort this out now in conjunction with fans.
As a community worker, current or otherwise, I'm sure you'd need to think outside the box, you should maybe give it a try in this instance.
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
Fare already reported us for sectarian signing in 2011 at PSV and it was widely denied by all who were there so I'm not so confident on that point as you are.

I also dont think the club are doing anywhere near enough and not sure going to war with your own fans is the answer.

I think the club needs to engage with the fans and make sure we keep our noses clean in regards to our song book.
 

Gibbonbear

Well-Known Member
What a load of nonsense. How about the offending fans take responsibility for their actions, the time has come when they have to accept that their actions are harming our/their club.
I don't think that there is any doubt that they are harming our club , does anyone seriously imagine that Steven Gerrard will still be here if this continues . Do they think that we will be able to attract sponsors and players if we are to continue with these songs .We are not asking fans to stop singing , but what is wrong with singing Rangers songs without references to the pope or being up to our knees in fenian blood .I have been a Rangers fan for over 60 years and yet I do not know nor do I want to know a word of for instance " build my gallows high" for as far as I am concerned it has f$ck all to do with Rangers or football ,probably the best Rangers song of recent years is " four lads had a dream" for it is evocative of these four lads getting together to play football , not to fight religious battles but just to play football .I would love to go to Ibrox one day and hear the fans singing about Rangers football club and the songbook that Rangers have like follow follow and blue sea of Ibrox and no mentions of the pope or the ira for while I have no time for either of them there is now no place for them at Ibrox
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
Fare already reported us for sectarian signing in 2011 at PSV and it was widely denied by all who were there so I'm not so confident on that point as you are.

I also dont think the club are doing anywhere near enough and not sure going to war with your own fans is the answer.

I think the club needs to engage with the fans and make sure we keep our noses clean in regards to our song book.
The club has engaged with the fans. The majority of fans are adults so they'll know fine well that when the club states that unacceptable singing/behaviour must stop only the hard of thinking will act like children & demand the club gives them specific details of what can/can't be sung.

Considering the sh.it we've been getting over the last 25+years or so wrt songs/chants their stance is laughably pathetic.
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
The Sash, Derry’s Walls and Follow Follow (with no words changed) are fine to sing. None of them fit under those rules that I laid out above.

WATP and Rule Britannia are also fine.

This isn’t difficult. Apply the rules.
I wouldn't reply to this poster again wrt this particular issue as he'll keep asking for you to give him more & more examples when in all likelihood hood he knows what is/isn't acceptable...assuming he's an adult & not a recalcitrant child:)
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
You are part of the problem because you cant see what needs to be done to fix it. Simply banning some fans and appealing for others not to sing certain songs wont work. Havent you noticed? We've been doing this for years and years yet here we are with a stand closed and the message is still the same.

Wake up and smell the coffee.
Lets hear your solution then:)
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
I dont sing bigoted songs. What made you think I did?

Im trying to point out that general statements about 'bigots' isnt helpful. It hasnt worked up till now and it wont in the future.

Rangers need to grasp the nettle. Arrange meetings with fans and sort out whats allowed and what isnt.

If they dont you can look forward to more fines, bans, stadium closures and points docked.
...meanwhile the world inexorably moves on;)
 

BlueLagoonCo

Well-Known Member
The club should be taking leadership by banning fans who sing these songs. It's easy to identify them because there are thousands who do it. Start banning them for it and that will cut it out quickly. There's been mealy mouthed statements and daft initiatives for years and they haven't got through to these numbskulls.
Aye the clubs gonny start banning thousands of supporters. Grow up
 

Luca Stroppi

Well-Known Member
We (NI supporters) stopped it at Windsor Park. Now no one would even think of singing any of these songs at an international. The atmosphere is great and the fans are always praised. There was a lot of work with fan groups to make this happen. Rangers officals should follow this lead.
This is what’s needed and it should have been done long ago. Many Rangers fans with a bit more common sense and who are more consciously aware about the offensive singing issue and thus behave in accordance with the club’s wishes would agree that a serious meaningful dialogue has got to happen between the club and the support to move us forward and put an end to this shit once and for all.

So far it’s just been the club dictating and unwilling to engage with us on the issue, we can fix this and turn it round positively like the Northern Ireland FA and fans did, it’s time to deal with this properly or totally lose the war on Rangers some time down the road which after today’s bombshell is drawing nearer when we are eventually hammered so severely it will be a catastrophe financially, reputation wise and also cause massive splits in a support at war with itself, just look at the discourse on here tonight!

Our enemies are absolutely loving this! I will state this clearly and desperately hope someone in our club is paying attention, myself and thousands of other supporters do already refrain from partaking in the harmful songs but if the people running the club think for one minute I am going to personally chin fellow fans for singing or go grassing people up to stewards and police then they can f@ck right off! I am sure that goes for the vast majority of our fans regarding this. Engage now with the support and let’s get on top of this before it’s too late!
 

TNT

Well-Known Member
Every European tie has a UEFA observer. It is due to this observer that the filth have had numerous fines.

Needless to say, our matches also have UEFA observers.

This has NOT come from an independent observer. This has come from basically a hater within our own country.

I know it should be pretty obvious what the offending chant is - BUT, it needs to be laid out in black and white. Not so much to tell the fans what they have to stop - but, so we know what the goalposts are. Surely NONE of us would trust FARE not to move their goalposts?

Don't forget, the bouncy is about jumping on catholics heads - and the red tops on our black socks relates to fenian blood..............

Just remember, we live in a hate filled little backwater where the Hokey Cokey is deemed sectarian!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/singing-the-hokey-cokey-could-land-1002751
 
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Northampton_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
This is not a simple issue, at all, and just having the board stamping their foot down hard will not fix it. There needs to be clear leadership and the board need to engage the entire support in order to see us come out of the situation ahead. We need to address board worries as a support, absolutely, but we also need the board to start to address our worries and I fear that while they maintain a strict division between board and punter, we are weakening any chance we have of seeing this through.
 

Maturebear63

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
YOU need to address this, you need to get ahead of it and you need to show some leadership.

We have supporters who are stuck in the past, we have others who are frustrated and we have all of us who are suffering a skewed and imbalanced level of reporting and sanction.

We have a sizeable number of supporters who will not stop the behaviour that is landing us in bother because they are well aware of the double standards that are at play and see themselves not as bigots, but as people taking a stand against the bigotry they face.

Through all of my time supporting the club, well over 30 years, we have not once had a sensible and adult discussion that involves the club and the support, a forum where you can tell us explicitly, in plain English, what is not acceptable (although I agree 100% if you point out that it should be bloody obvious to anyone with half a brain) and where the support can tell you explicitly what our issues are and the double standards we face.

If you want the singing to stop, you need to engage our support, you need to talk to us and you need to ask us a simple question: what can we do to help you. If you treat this as an 'us and them' situation, you will simply find people retreating further behind their lines, carrying on their behaviour, but if you ask them what needs to happen for them to stop, you might find a healthier relationship with the support and far better results. I think you will also be shocked at the answers you get.

We need you to work with us, not sit in your tower and try to dictate. It did not work for ANY previous board and it will not work for you. You need to work with us here, stand up for us far more than you do.
I agree with most of what you say, but I am a supporter who is not "Stuck in the Past" as you put it.

I am however a defender of free-speech and free-thought without fear of punishment.
Tell me why it was deemed ok to say FTP throughout the years, until the PC brigade came to power? Words cannot hurt you, physical actions can.
As I have stated on previous posts. I will refrain from singing these songs which I like singing when in Ibrox, to protect the club I Love.
Older Bears like me are "Not Stuck In the Past" we just lived during a time when life was less politically driven by those with an evil agenda.
Nothing more Nothing less.
 

Arminius

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The club really do need to open up a public discussion, accepting that we will change, but openly starting the debate about the way our fans are treated and reported compared to fans of all other clubs.

The casual use of h**s (even from media pundits and politicians) and orange bas****s going without consequence or even mention.

It is undoubtedly part of this that our fans feel "why should we bother about sectarianism when fans of other clubs are free to aim anti protestant slurs and sectarian chanting at us with apparent impunity. That is where the club and prominent and educated fans (that's you I'm talking about Chris Graham) really have a place to play in that discussion and public debate
 
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joseph

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
N
Aye the clubs gonny start banning thousands of supporters. Grow up
No I don’t think the club will ban thousands of supporters - but Eufa can and have.
Rangers can and probably have addressed part of the problem by default with the no reprint of tickets for season tickets being sold to random people when the season ticket holder cannot attend- the club has the name and address details of season ticket holders and where they sit on a match day and they are held accountable for their actions- whereas random punters have no footprint in the purchase of tickets from season ticket holders either by reprint or mates rates and don’t have the same degree of accountability for their actions.
As I said some of the random people around me at cup games etc are definitely part of the problem as they see visiting ibrox as one big sash bash with the added bonus of a football match, and Rangers may have by default of implementing the no reprint of tickets policy may have addressed a small part of the problem regarding accountability by being able to identify who has actually purchased the tickets.
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
Your not really expecting the fans to just suddenly stop singing these unspecified songs are you?

As for fan engagement. You're hardly scratching the surface. How many fans have you met and what was the outcome?

Im talking about the club developing a network of contacts/reps that reach and meet on a regular basis with the vast majority of fans. Not a few one off focus groups. The purpose of this network would be to discuss and develop a strategy for dealing with songs and the way we're being targeted unfairly by the authorities.

To be honest Im sick of the shit we get thrown at us and Im sick of the lip service and excuses coming out of Ibrox claiming that something is being done. You cant fool all the people all of the time. Its time club took responsibility and showed some leadership.
Generally speaking Rangers fans don't do committees, agenda driven blazer chasers & any other taunt that some fans can think up & absolutely no one will listen to them.

We have club1872 so that should be the only conduit between club & fans.

There are fans, I'd imagine, that have no time & despise their very existence but all I'd say that is tough fkn sh.it so we don't need to set up any more talking shops, club1872 is the go to organisation for both parties imo
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
The club really do need to open up a public discussion, accepting that we will change, but openly starting the debate about the eay our fans are treated and reported compared to fans of all other clubs.

The casual use of h**s (even from media pundits and politicians) and orange bas****s going without consequence or even mention.

It is undoubtedly part of this that our fans feel "why should we bother about sectarianism when fans of other clubs are free to aim anti protestant slurs and sectarian chanting at us with apparent impunity. That is where the club and prominent and educated fans (that's you I'm talking about Chris Graham) really have a place to play in that discussion and public debate
Can you remember the outrage after o'donnell, of kilmarnock, called a Rangers player an orange b'stard when they met up for a scotland international?...me neither.

What i can imagine is if a Rangers player had referred to someone who plays for the paedos as a fenian b'stard at an international meet up he, in all likelihood, would never play for his country again
 

babaji

Well-Known Member
By asking for the evidence of wrongdoing and getting clarity on the activities of FARE, iewhy they are so ready to attend so many of our games compared to everyone else.

The elephant is the consistently appalling behaviour of Celtc fans and why UEFA are unwilling to take them to task effectively.

We are perfectly entitled to ask for parity, when in the wrong or not. This nonsense about ‘a position of weakness’ that is being trotted out is rubbish. We are in a dialogue with UEFA and have every right to expect transparency,
Their get out of jail card is the well known bigot delaney who is/was head of the fai.
 

Albertzzz

Active Member
The club should be taking leadership by banning fans who sing these songs. It's easy to identify them because there are thousands who do it. Start banning them for it and that will cut it out quickly. There's been mealy mouthed statements and daft initiatives for years and they haven't got through to these numbskulls.
Well 49k will be banned 1st sept
 

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what you say, but I am a supporter who is not "Stuck in the Past" as you put it.

I am however a defender of free-speech and free-thought without fear of punishment.
Tell me why it was deemed ok to say FTP throughout the years, until the PC brigade came to power? Words cannot hurt you, physical actions can.
As I have stated on previous posts. I will refrain from singing these songs which I like singing when in Ibrox, to protect the club I Love.
Older Bears like me are "Not Stuck In the Past" we just lived during a time when life was less politically driven by those with an evil agenda.
Nothing more Nothing less.
Excellent post and one which highlights the true dynamics of the situation.
 

Northampton_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
The UB's statement today tells us nothing other than working together is absolutely pivotal. While we have our most vocal group at odds with the board, no resolution will happen. The board of Rangers need to start working alongside any group of supporters who will sit in the same room and the UB could and should be at the forefront of that.
 

ecossebear

Well-Known Member
While I was of the opinion the club didn’t need to spell out and we all know, it maybe is worth addressing as it is a bit of a grey area. My take was TBB with ANY lyrics, and any mention of the pope or fenian was banned. Everything else including Derry’s Walls, The Sash and Super Rangers minus the last two lines were all okay. But I guess that’s just my interpretation and UEFA May have different views. Stopping some of those may be more difficult and then you get into the grey area of why is it okay to be sending the English homewards to think again but not sing Derry’s walls? It would be nice if we could get an answer of “only fenian and pope” are banned rather than leave it to our haters to flag up every single song we sing that is perhaps perfectly acceptable?
 
Said it in another thread as well. Club needs to do more saying dont sing naughty song lyrics is not enough, making a wee video saying we are welcome to all is not enough.

I totally agree the fans are at fault for singing songs deemed offensive. This does not mean that the club are correct also and its not their fault either.

Also regarding others. If we want to be on a level playing field then wee need to act accordingly as fans and a club as well. Complain about everything and anything en mass to Uefa anything you find mildly offensive because that is exactly what happens to us.

We need to get our house in order that is pretty clear. We also need to address the clear agenda against the club or getting our house in order is pointless.
Can I ask what more the club can do? There are two actions here. 1. Stewards, who are paid %^*& all squared and have no legal power, steam into crowd and eject offenders.
2. The police wade into crown and jail offenders.
If we, the support, are too fucking stupid to heed the warnings and now this partial stadium closure then %^*& me.....be as well shutting the doors next week after OF game!
 

Travis Bickle

Well-Known Member
Has UEFA followed their own disciplinary proceedings as no one has seen the citation against the club and giving us a hearing date to listen to charges and mount a defence

It appears UEFA have just unilaterally found us guilty with no hearing and ordered a partial ground closure

Said before UEFA are not above the law but if Rangers just allow this then they are as usual not challenging UEFA

A good lawyer would show the “Fenian Army” banner from 2 weeks ago and ask how can they be offended by a badge of honour that they are proud of
I would like to think that those in power at Ibrox are working behind the scenes on this, gathering evidence of FARE bias against us, compiling a dossier of gb " indiscretions" and hiring a damn fine lawyer..

I would like to think this....but sadly I don't
 

the bridge

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I wont be saying how i really feel about the cronyism that is in and around ibrox now.. i would cop a lifetime ban from ff...
As for the post a few days ago asking if our support has hardened.. id say we have got weaker.. i sometimes dont recognize our support at times especially the online loyal
I say this not antagonistically mate, but you talk of cronyism in and around Ibrox in a way to suggest you absolutely have knowledge to the affect it exists. Do you or is this just an opinion?
 

LOL 133

Well-Known Member
What a load of nonsense. How about the offending fans take responsibility for their actions, the time has come when they have to accept that their actions are harming our/their club.
So what's to be done then? Another statement? A new video? Remove STs? All easy options and all doomed to failure.

Wake up for god's sake. The club needs to get fans on board by talking to them. Didnt you learn anything from the Belfast Agreement?
 

Northampton_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
If the rumour is correct about the board sitting on the news of charges, this becomes even more vital that the club stop approaching this from an authoritarian view and start to work with and engage the support. A shambles if the rumours are true. If.
 

songsofglory

Well-Known Member
I hate those FBs with a passion, but a football match is not the place to vent those, feelings, loved belting out the party tunes in the 60s,70s,80s and into the 90s but the world has moved on and so must we.
Willie Waddell was asking fans not to sing certain songs and start behaving in the 70's, did you ignore him then?
 

jimmybluebeak

Active Member
Offending fans need to make up their minds what they want,if it’s sectarian singing they want sit at home and watch the game on tv,get pushed and sing your wee hearts out,but if you are like me and love Rangers and want to roar on a successful team,cut out the bad singing we are a football club not a sectarian choir.
 
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