Our core tactics of negativity

TPP

TPP

Well-Known Member
At our worst, the core philosophy of Beales tactics are horrifically negative and really hard to watch.

against better teams the team is instructed to be passive and withdrawn to the 18 yard line and not engage. It’s suicide. This season it’s been most games however. When we aren’t top of the game any team that presses us will find joy. the Subservient default if really hard to watch and it’s expected now.

the management team cannot continue this or they will destroy the season. They must revert to last years forward press.

Davis is killing us at times also. A lovely footballer but he’s one of the most defensive midfielders I’ve seen. He doesn’t move the midfield line and recycles backwards nearly everytime.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
A little more perspective needed.

I'm all for criticism but this isn't constructive - it's a scatter gun of frustration being shot out where everyone's a target.

We have issues that need addressed but let's be measured.

Beale knows his stuff.

You need to be realistic. If you want to do what Celtic do with Angeball sure we might be a goal up at half time with the waves of attack and playing high up the pitch, but we'll be knackered on 55-minutes and lose 4-1, easily.

We have played the same way in Europe almost from day one under Gerrard and that's soak it up and hit teams on the counter/break.

It won't always work.

In fact it's not really worked at all since Prague away about 6-months ago but to say one of the most revered and respected coaches and tacticians in the game in Beale's tactics are horrific isn't fair.

We can play another way (if someone wants to give us 50-million to spend on 3 or 4 top players that will make the difference in key areas on the park).

We have problems that need addressed - but against Lyon tonight isn't the be-all-end-all.
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It’s not reactionary to the game, I’ve been saying it for a while and on the way over chat amongst us was would we move beyond our own 18yard line and make a tackle at some point Or do the usual and not engage.

it proved to be the case again unfortunately. its drowning us currently and when the team starts to lose a bit of flair and confidence the passiveness is our safe zone. It’s really hard to watch Naturally good and aggressive footballers just give up and withdraw.
 
We need to cut out the middle men in our passing, too often we have an extra pass which is unnecessary and slows play down.

For example Goldson will often have the ball and Tav will be free in loads of space but instead of playing it direct to Tav he’ll pass it into Balogun who then passes it to Tav, by this time the other team have pressed up and we’re forced back again.

That kind of situation happens too much imo
 
Duranman said:
Our transition from box to box is incredibly slow for the most part. 23 touches and we were still forty yards from goal. Lyon took 3 and they were in our box.
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We don’t really transition, we move the ball so far then Davis passes to Goldson. Goldson is actually the player who dictates our play and creativity alongside Tav. It’s why we are so reliant on him.
 
TPP said:
It’s not reactionary to the game, I’ve been saying it for a while and on the way over chat amongst us was would we move beyond our own 18yard line and make a tackle at some point Or do the usual and not engage.

it proved to be the case again unfortunately. its drowning us currently and when the team starts to lose a bit of flair and confidence the passiveness is our safe zone. It’s really hard to watch Naturally good and aggressive footballers just give up and withdraw.
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If you dive into tackles at this level, 1. Your probably getting a yellow, 2. They will play it round you with relative ease, 3. You’ll be shattered at around 60 minutes whilst the other team just picks you off, people need to understand there are various levels of football, which we currently aren’t near.

Lyon could have went up a few gears and had key players missing, bringing guys like shaquiri off the bench, we can’t really compete with your Lyons, Leverkusens etc. Fair enough we got some good results against Porto etc, but that’s football.
 
Duranman said:
Our transition from box to box is incredibly slow for the most part. 23 touches and we were still forty yards from goal. Lyon took 3 and they were in our box.
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Reminded me of the recent Celtic match
.........

Celtic played 30 passes to get the ball into our half, we'd win it and in two passes Morelos, Roofe or Kent would be running onto the ball in space. .....

The reverse kind of happened to us tonight
 
Whats up doc said:
If you dive into tackles at this level, 1. Your probably getting a yellow, 2. They will play it round you with relative ease, 3. You’ll be shattered at around 60 minutes whilst the other team just picks you off, people need to understand there are various levels of football, which we currently aren’t near.

Lyon could have went up a few gears and had key players missing, bringing guys like shaquiri off the bench, we can’t really compete with your Lyons, Leverkusens etc. Fair enough we got some good results against Porto etc, but that’s football.
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Too sensible.
I'm off to bed now.
 
Whats up doc said:
If you dive into tackles at this level, 1. Your probably getting a yellow, 2. They will play it round you with relative ease, 3. You’ll be shattered at around 60 minutes whilst the other team just picks you off, people need to understand there are various levels of football, which we currently aren’t near.

Lyon could have went up a few gears and had key players missing, bringing guys like shaquiri off the bench, we can’t really compete with your Lyons, Leverkusens etc. Fair enough we got some good results against Porto etc, but that’s football.
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Sorry need to disagree with you on we can't compete with Leverkusens and Lyons, aye ok financially and the players they can attract but on the pitch over 90 minutes at Ibrox we definitely can.

Yes they may be better sides but they are completely beatable. 2 individual errors due to poor decision making and execution ultimately cost us that game. Not a gulf in class or ability.

1. You can dive into a tackle and win it cleanly, just don't dive in recklessly and needlessly, only do when required in a risk/reward situation and the decision is sound I.e position, level of threat

2. As for being shattered, correct you will be, m but you don't press for a full game or half, you do so in periods, then drop in and rest, repeat etc

3. As for passing around us, they can't do that if your fellow teammates are pressed against the outball and reduced the options to clearing their lines. Forced errors.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rangers get a result in Lyon. This team are not world beaters.
 
I think our tactics are stale and very predictable. Too often we don't press as a team and can look disjointed.
Upfront, I preferred the old Morelos, combative and hard to play against. I just feel he is much more passive these days. Heading isn't his main asset, yet we play with two of the best crossers of the ball in Scotland.
We had a lot of players who played fantastic last season who just haven't started the season well either.
 
TPP said:
It’s not reactionary to the game, I’ve been saying it for a while and on the way over chat amongst us was would we move beyond our own 18yard line and make a tackle at some point Or do the usual and not engage.

it proved to be the case again unfortunately. its drowning us currently and when the team starts to lose a bit of flair and confidence the passiveness is our safe zone. It’s really hard to watch Naturally good and aggressive footballers just give up and withdraw.
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Thing is we are not a side that makes tackles and to be honest football has changed you saw tonight when your chasing the ball to make tackles the c refs give free kicks straight away

We are a side that closes space gives possession away in areas to hit on the break the issue we have at moment is we have players of form and disrupted pre season because of euros etc

We I think we banking on at least the play off round for the additional money to buy quality that is now going have to wait to see where we get to with the Europa and league position

The players we have are better than they have been showing but they are near the limits of what they can do

We have been spoiled in Europe to an extent with what Gerrard and the tactics have achieved
 
frazz said:
Thing is we are not a side that makes tackles and to be honest football has changed you saw tonight when your chasing the ball to make tackles the c refs give free kicks straight away
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We certainly can’t tackle hard in Europe - will be penalised everytime. Especially when refs are giving freekicks against us when there is actually no contact.
 
ronadamus_prime said:
This is some take mate. They are a class above us, even at our very best. They had gears to go up tonight and a few players missing. I hope you're right, but they controlled the game and kept us to very limited chances.
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I had those thoughts straight after the game and Gerrard mentioned the individual errors costing the goals and the fact on occasions we showed them to much respect. So it's good to see he's thinking the same as me, they they are beatable haha.

They possibly did have gears to go up but I felt we made it easy at times and gave no option in the wide areas beyond Barasic and Tav(especially the 1st half, lost count on the amount Barasic had the ball and couldn't play a forward pass into space as no one was making that run)

Also Lyon passed the ball 6 times out the park. I've saw some really good teams at Ibrox over the years and they didn't jump out as one. Go and have a gander if not already at Lyons Ligue 1 match highlights so far this season, littered with very poor passages of play and defensive errors.
 
gazmac81 said:
I had those thoughts straight after the game and Gerrard mentioned the individual errors costing the goals and the fact on occasions we showed them to much respect. So it's good to see he's thinking the same as me, they they are beatable haha.

They possibly did have gears to go up but I felt we made it easy at times and gave no option in the wide areas beyond Barasic and Tav(especially the 1st half, lost count on the amount Barasic had the ball and couldn't play a forward pass into space as no one was making that run)

Also Lyon passed the ball 6 times out the park. I've saw some really good teams at Ibrox over the years and they didn't jp out toe as one. Go and have a gander if not already at Lyons Ligue 1 match highlights so far this season, littered with very poor passages of play and defensive errors.
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On our best day and on a bad day for them, then aye, they are beatable. Most teams are.

I get what you are saying but the difference in quality was fairly evident to me. They looked calm and composed in possession. More importantly they looked clinical in front of goal. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we disgraced ourselves and if we were on form we likely could have made a better game of it. But they could have gone up a gear or two as well. So it is a moot point really.

I wouldn't read too much into performances in Ligue 1 tbh. They play at a higher level than we do every week. Ligue 1 is highly competitive outwith PSG.
 
TPP said:
At our worst, the core philosophy of Beales tactics are horrifically negative and really hard to watch.

against better teams the team is instructed to be passive and withdrawn to the 18 yard line and not engage. It’s suicide. This season it’s been most games however. When we aren’t top of the game any team that presses us will find joy. the Subservient default if really hard to watch and it’s expected now.

the management team cannot continue this or they will destroy the season. They must revert to last years forward press.

Davis is killing us at times also. A lovely footballer but he’s one of the most defensive midfielders I’ve seen. He doesn’t move the midfield line and recycles backwards nearly everytime.
Click to expand...
Feck me, is there anybody not going to get it tonight?
Sometimes it’s hard not to feckin scream and smash the laptop to bits.
 
Manhattan_Loyalist said:
A little more perspective needed.

I'm all for criticism but this isn't constructive - it's a scatter gun of frustration being shot out where everyone's a target.

We have issues that need addressed but let's be measured.

Beale knows his stuff.

You need to be realistic. If you want to do what Celtic do with Angeball sure we might be a goal up at half time with the waves of attack and playing high up the pitch, but we'll be knackered on 55-minutes and lose 4-1, easily.

We have played the same way in Europe almost from day one under Gerrard and that's soak it up and hit teams on the counter/break.

It won't always work.

In fact it's not really worked at all since Prague away about 6-months ago but to say one of the most revered and respected coaches and tacticians in the game in Beale's tactics are horrific isn't fair.

We can play another way (if someone wants to give us 50-million to spend on 3 or 4 top players that will make the difference in key areas on the park).

We have problems that need addressed - but against Lyon tonight isn't the be-all-end-all.
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Not as much as FF posters.
 
They were a fine side would expect they are shorts odds to win it but i cant help thinking we could have done a bit better had we different ideas or ways to play. We dont its the same way every game, win ball in middle pass around going nowhere until someone can find Kent.

The pressure that lad is under is incredible it is unfair and its not helping him get back to form. We need other options.

The whole aye but its a better league argument is also difficult to take seriously when you could say the same for loads of teams we beat and also folk ignore home advantage which is massive in any euro match.

I think overall, watching all the games this season our tactics are a huge issue, i also think the players do not enjoy the way we play i dont see guys enjoying their football thats not a good sign.

To have all these forwards on big bucks and not get many shots on goal is pretty poor. The players continue to get the blame but maybe it we had a more attacking system and found a way to get Patterson in the side, or start with 2 strikers in the middle, then maybe Kent will get more space and opposition defenders would make more errors.
 
tazzabear said:
Feck me, is there anybody not going to get it tonight?
Sometimes it’s hard not to feckin scream and smash the laptop to bits.
Click to expand...
Our approach and tactics in Europe have in the vast majority been outstanding.
Whats up doc said:
If you dive into tackles at this level, 1. Your probably getting a yellow, 2. They will play it round you with relative ease, 3. You’ll be shattered at around 60 minutes whilst the other team just picks you off, people need to understand there are various levels of football, which we currently aren’t near.

Lyon could have went up a few gears and had key players missing, bringing guys like shaquiri off the bench, we can’t really compete with your Lyons, Leverkusens etc. Fair enough we got some good results against Porto etc, but that’s football.
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I agree on going to ground but we simply never engaged. And rarely do. We don’t fight off the ball and are content to withdraw.

look at the absolute difference in approach last night. It wasn’t about Lyons players on the ball. As soon they lost it they fought for their lives, fouled, hand balled to prevent an attack.
 
TPP said:
At our worst, the core philosophy of Beales tactics are horrifically negative and really hard to watch.

against better teams the team is instructed to be passive and withdrawn to the 18 yard line and not engage. It’s suicide. This season it’s been most games however. When we aren’t top of the game any team that presses us will find joy. the Subservient default if really hard to watch and it’s expected now.

the management team cannot continue this or they will destroy the season. They must revert to last years forward press.

Davis is killing us at times also. A lovely footballer but he’s one of the most defensive midfielders I’ve seen. He doesn’t move the midfield line and recycles backwards nearly everytime.
Click to expand...
Good post and a lot of harsh truth in it. Take the point on Steve Davis too though not the sole culprit. The times Rangers have played well is when we pressed teams high ( at least for spells - I realise this can’t be done for the entire game but if done at the start, it can knock teams out their comfort zone). I’m not talking ‘Angeball’. Our defence is better equipped to deal with the counter and we’re not talking about the full game until we collapse after 60mins.
 
The intensity to our game is gone.
Teams are pressing us all over the pitch and we are struggling to match them, we look flat at the moment and if we don't wake up then every game is going to be an ugly battle for us, especially in the league away from home.
Personally, I'm not getting the same enjoyment watching us as I did at this stage last season.
 
DaveL said:
The intensity to our game is gone.
Teams are pressing us all over the pitch and we are struggling to match them, we look flat at the moment and if we don't wake up then every game is going to be an ugly battle for us, especially in the league away from home.
Personally, I'm not getting the same enjoyment watching us as I did at this stage last season.
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if people are being honest we have been a hard watch for nearly every game this calendar year. The odd game apart it’s been pretty turgid and predictable
 
bar72bear said:
if people are being honest we have been a hard watch for nearly every game this calendar year. The odd game apart it’s been pretty turgid and predictable
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Yep. We played our best football through the EL group stages and up to christmas last season. Then it seemed to be about just getting through each game with a few flashes after that.
 
TPP said:
At our worst, the core philosophy of Beales tactics are horrifically negative and really hard to watch.

against better teams the team is instructed to be passive and withdrawn to the 18 yard line and not engage. It’s suicide. This season it’s been most games however. When we aren’t top of the game any team that presses us will find joy. the Subservient default if really hard to watch and it’s expected now.

the management team cannot continue this or they will destroy the season. They must revert to last years forward press.

Davis is killing us at times also. A lovely footballer but he’s one of the most defensive midfielders I’ve seen. He doesn’t move the midfield line and recycles backwards nearly everytime.
Click to expand...
Watching just now is like looking at SGs first season of style of play, unlike most of last season, fast free flowing football.
 
TPP said:
It’s not reactionary to the game, I’ve been saying it for a while and on the way over chat amongst us was would we move beyond our own 18yard line and make a tackle at some point Or do the usual and not engage.

it proved to be the case again unfortunately. its drowning us currently and when the team starts to lose a bit of flair and confidence the passiveness is our safe zone. It’s really hard to watch Naturally good and aggressive footballers just give up and withdraw.
Click to expand...
Really evident last night, I have said on a few other threads that the Lyon backline were there to be pressed. On the few occasions that we did they either miss placed passes or put the ball out the park.
The fullback (no 17) looked particularly shaky.
 
The lack of high press is strange. Worked exceptionally well last season and I get you can’t do it for 90 mins or you end up blowing out your arse like the mentally challengeds, but, we were so effective with it and now we look so passive. There’s wide open spaces everywhere due to lack of cohesion on closing spaces. Can’t keep blaming euros we’re well into the season now. Just not clicked yet.
 
I’m not surprised we don’t high press a lot. We done it in gerrards first two seasons but the management soon realised that we couldn’t maintain it over a full season. Now we press more when teams cross the half way line and it’s worked for the past season and a bit.
 
DaveL said:
Yep. We played our best football through the EL group stages and up to christmas last season. Then it seemed to be about just getting through each game with a few flashes after that.
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I don't think we've kicked a ball in anger since then. The intensity we had and the pass and move at pace seems to have gone,so it must be down to tactics and yes we're struggling to find our form,but we need to get back to that.
 
Bloody hell. Just wait til Beale is manager then pal
TPP said:
At our worst, the core philosophy of Beales tactics are horrifically negative and really hard to watch.

against better teams the team is instructed to be passive and withdrawn to the 18 yard line and not engage. It’s suicide. This season it’s been most games however. When we aren’t top of the game any team that presses us will find joy. the Subservient default if really hard to watch and it’s expected now.

the management team cannot continue this or they will destroy the season. They must revert to last years forward press.

Davis is killing us at times also. A lovely footballer but he’s one of the most defensive midfielders I’ve seen. He doesn’t move the midfield line and recycles backwards nearly everytime.
Click to expand...
 
rfc_chris_rfc said:
I’m not surprised we don’t high press a lot. We done it in gerrards first two seasons but the management soon realised that we couldn’t maintain it over a full season. Now we press more when teams cross the half way line and it’s worked for the past season and a bit.
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Funny thing is people saying we played with a high press last season when we patently didn't.
 
At the game you sense the restlessness of the support who want it hoofed up the park or players to move at a pace similar to the Flash.
I consider the OP in that group absolutely nothing negative about our play…at all
 
gazmac81 said:
I had those thoughts straight after the game and Gerrard mentioned the individual errors costing the goals and the fact on occasions we showed them to much respect. So it's good to see he's thinking the same as me, they they are beatable haha.

They possibly did have gears to go up but I felt we made it easy at times and gave no option in the wide areas beyond Barasic and Tav(especially the 1st half, lost count on the amount Barasic had the ball and couldn't play a forward pass into space as no one was making that run)

Also Lyon passed the ball 6 times out the park. I've saw some really good teams at Ibrox over the years and they didn't jump out as one. Go and have a gander if not already at Lyons Ligue 1 match highlights so far this season, littered with very poor passages of play and defensive errors.
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Good spot. Angers thrashed Lyon 3-0 and Clermont put 3 past them in their own back yard.
 
Der Hammer1 said:
The lack of high press is strange. Worked exceptionally well last season and I get you can’t do it for 90 mins or you end up blowing out your arse like the mentally challengeds, but, we were so effective with it and now we look so passive. There’s wide open spaces everywhere due to lack of cohesion on closing spaces. Can’t keep blaming euros we’re well into the season now. Just not clicked yet.
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Liverpool manage it. They play in a style that we clearly try to emulate but they press aggressively and win the ball back quickly allowing them to control the pace of the game and tire their opponents out.
 
Der Hammer1 said:
The lack of high press is strange. Worked exceptionally well last season and I get you can’t do it for 90 mins or you end up blowing out your arse like the mentally challengeds, but, we were so effective with it and now we look so passive. There’s wide open spaces everywhere due to lack of cohesion on closing spaces. Can’t keep blaming euros we’re well into the season now. Just not clicked yet.
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You can't high press a team of that quality that we faced last night they would just play round us with ease. Our tactics aren't any different to the last 4 years in Europe stay narrow in the middle and force the teams out wide. Our aim is then to win the ball back and counter attack which we have done so well in Europe over the last few years.
 
It’s tiring the amount of people that don’t understand our style of play and why it’s effective.

We were good last night, they’re just streets ahead of us.

Must have been chaos in here during Smiths tenure when we actually did play negative football.
 
bkerr72 said:
You can't high press a team of that quality that we faced last night they would just play round us with ease. Our tactics aren't any different to the last 4 years in Europe stay narrow in the middle and force the teams out wide. Our aim is then to win the ball back and counter attack which we have done so well in Europe over the last few years.
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We pressed them first 5 minutes and they misplaced at least 5/6 passes ? They ate a good side but they’re not world class, we could have and should have got at them more.
 
Der Hammer1 said:
We pressed them first 5 minutes and they misplaced at least 5/6 passes ? They ate a good side but they’re not world class, we could have and should have got at them more.
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They had a nervy start but once they settled down they showed their class. We got in more about them once chasing the game and got some success but teams of that quality can hurt you. We struggled with the movement of Paquetta and Ekambi all night
 
Some childish, unbelievable pish on here whenever we draw or lose no matter the context or quality of opposition. I’ve been watching us since 1977 and this is the best-coached team we have ever had.

We have punched above our weight in Europe on a consistent basis under Beale and Gerrard. We’re not at our very best at the moment but on another night we go in at half time one up rather than one down to a worldie.

Individual quality, not coaching or shape, was the difference between having a lead to defend and having to force a game v a team that is in reality a CL team.
 
mac2310 said:
It’s tiring the amount of people that don’t understand our style of play and why it’s effective.

We were good last night, they’re just streets ahead of us.

Must have been chaos in here during Smiths tenure when we actually did play negative football.
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you honestly thought we were good last night? What is our style of play as we certainly create very little in nearly every game we play. We moved about like robots scared to try anything different. I get that Lyon are a better team than us but surely you can’t be happy with us plodding about and creating very little at home. I said earlier that I would take the odd beating if we at least had a go. Last night was a free hit
 
I think we realised a high press may be effective but our players struggle later in the season from the physical demands of it so we moved away from that into a sort of hybrid system.
 
bar72bear said:
you honestly thought we were good last night? What is our style of play as we certainly create very little in nearly every game we play. We moved about like robots scared to try anything different. I get that Lyon are a better team than us but surely you can’t be happy with us plodding about and creating very little at home. I said earlier that I would take the odd beating if we at least had a go. Last night was a free hit
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11 shots to their 8 but we created very little? Possession pretty much evenly split. Their only real threat coming from two errors we made.

I don’t know why after all this time people don’t understand that our whole game is built on effective possession, patience and picking when to push.
 
mac2310 said:
11 shots to their 8 but we created very little? Possession pretty much evenly split. Their only real threat coming from two errors we made.

I don’t know why after all this time people don’t understand that our whole game is built on effective possession, patience and picking when to push.
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the problem is that our tactics are the same every game and it’s the reason we are struggling in nearly every game. We’re so slow and predicatable.
In terms of last night we really had one good chance / save the whole game with literally nothing in the second half. If your getting beaten 2-0 at home surely it’s time to mix things up and try something different but our formations and play are so rigid and robotic.
 
I expected to lose last night Lyon are a good team but this season has been really boring, apart from maybe the first 20 on the opening game of the season then the second half v Celtic it’s been a tough old watch. I would love to see us move the ball faster and be more direct but if it hasn’t happened yet I don’t think it will.
 
bar72bear said:
the problem is that our tactics are the same every game and it’s the reason we are struggling in nearly every game. We’re so slow and predicatable.
In terms of last night we really had one good chance / save the whole game with literally nothing in the second half. If your getting beaten 2-0 at home surely it’s time to mix things up and try something different but our formations and play are so rigid and robotic.
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I think what you say at the end fits for 90% of the games we will play this season. Against that level of opposition I think opening up and coming out of the way we were playing would have made it a far bigger defeat.
 
mac2310 said:
I think what you say at the end fits for 90% of the games we will play this season. Against that level of opposition I think opening up and coming out of the way we were playing would have made it a far bigger defeat.
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I think the frustration from my point of view is that we seem to have a blanket formation no matter the opponent.

Motherwell will have spent the last week drilling their players into the shape that will nullify us and we won’t have a way of surprising them and putting them on the back foot.
 
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