Our Manager tactics since start of the season.

The tactics are the same as last season
You seem, relatively, in the know. Has there been a retreat from our use of the high press in favour of a lower block aimed at conserving energy over the season? I've got it into my head that Beale has stated there has but can't find any evidence.
 
He needs to understand changing players is not "changing things" when things aren't working for us. Yesterday was coming from before half time, his job is to change it and prevent that. It reminded me of season one under him, lose a goal, retire to dugout and chew his zip. Make subs like for like and hope for the best.
Sometimes a full shape re-shuffle is required.
 
We’ve not played well during both halves of a match. That and his inability to change at the right time is becoming frustrating.

The substitutions were at the very least, 10 minutes too late.
Was saying this yesterday, you struggle to think of a game where we have been firing in both halves. Continually we play well in one of the 45s and most of the time we get away with it
 
You seem, relatively, in the know. Has there been a retreat from our use of the high press in favour of a lower block aimed at conserving energy over the season? I've got it into my head that Beale has stated there has but can't find any evidence.

I feel like I have heard the same thing.
Or something simialar.

Along the lines of we are using a lot of data and analytics to try and create a situation where we try to avoid the post-New Year burn out of 2018-19 and 2019-20.

I think there is similar thinking with the squad where we want to be able to rotate almost all the time and still get results.

Almost impossible to get to the root of this without asking the manager directly and it would be a bit irresponsible for the management team to give away too much.

Was the plan yesterday to kill the game in the first half and then completely sit back and try to see the game out? I had heard previously that after we beat Legia 1-0 on 2019 we approached the next game, 3 days later, with the idea that we would literally try to just survive and hold the tims to a 0-0 and steal something if we could.

Against Lyon we were quite obviously trying to contain them and hoping to catch them with balls over the top. Hence the constant turning back and playing short passes when in possession. Waiting for the forwards to find the right moment to break off into a run.

Against Alashkert we seemed to try something similar after we went down to 10 men, which worked. In Armenia we quite obviously tried to just see out the game while expending as little energy as possible and then tried to empty the tank in the 2nd half against the tims a few days later.

My feeling is that our way of playing is being dictated by a lot of data and analysis. The problem with that is if you look at last season our individual players were competent, reliable and predictable. If you look at this season there is more of a random or unpredictable element to things. We've lost 5 goals so far in the league and every one of them has come from our own weird defensive quirks. Half cleared balls and moments of lost concentration. It's impossible to build results around data when we have such a level of unpredictability.

We need more urgency, more sharpness and a higher tempo. Game management is not really working for us this season as it did last season. We had a good few lucky escapes last year to be honest.

I'm concerned that we "waste" a lot of time in matches. St Johnstone away, for example, the first half might as well have not existed. We kept them completely quiet but did nothing for ourselves. Then we lost a daft goal but successfully chased the game. Genuinely looks like we try to pick and choose periods of the game when we will give certain levels of effort and periods when we will just keep the ball.

Our approach is a bit strange.
 
We are 12 games games in to season. Probably just over 1/5 of our entire season.

We are yet to have a single convincing performance. Played well in very small parts of games, but it's mostly been turgid with no clue how to hurt teams in final 3rd and about as much a clue as to how to keep them out at other end. It might be enough to see us be successful this season, but that will be reliant as much on as how poor our opposition are.
 
I’d rather our strategy was to ‘chase games’ early, go three goals up and then ‘own the pitch, own the ball’ etc. At least in the way the players seemingly interpret it.
Lyon eg were initially unsure of what they were up against, fifteen minutes of faff from us later they decided they fancied it and started to play.
Win the game first, Mick
 
We are 12 games games in to season. Probably just over 1/5 of our entire season.

We are yet to have a single convincing performance. Played well in very small parts of games, but it's mostly been turgid with no clue how to hurt teams in final 3rd and about as much a clue as to how to keep them out at other end. It might be enough to see us be successful this season, but that will be reliant as much on as how poor our opposition are.

I think we still have the right idea. You want to make yourself has hard to beat as possible. In most of the games so far we have restricted the opposition to only a few opportunities. Even Lyon. Problem is that we lack a bit of sharpness up front.

I think they are a bit naive across the city with this idea of all out attacking football. It's a good way to tire yourselves out and have massive problems with fatigue and injuries etc when winter rolls around and in matches it's an issue when you can't get going and can't score.

It's a bit of a dilemma, really.

As if football is really that simple anyway.
Ah sure, if we just defend brilliantly and score loads of goals too then happy days!
As if it could ever be that easy. Like every team in the world would be the best team ever if it was as easy as that.

I'm seeing tims come out with that stuff just now. If they could just sort out the defence they will be unstoppable. Yeah, just as simple as that eh? :)

Right now it's obvious we are struggling.
We have had injuries. We've had covid cases.
We've had players missing training and matches and we've been so unsettled.
New players haven't quite managed to get up to speed.
It feels like every single little mistake gets punished to the max.

The management and the players can definitely turn it around.
 
It's a multi faceted issue - players, form, injuries, asking Davis to play so much at his age etc.

When all is well it works,

The one concern I've always had is that our style demands good players on good form. Off days always seem to result in numbingly predictable cross balls and the opposition scoring with their only chance. After 3 plus years of that it points to something.
It's worth remembering it's not Alexander Arnold putting balls into the box for Mo Salah, even if the style is the same!
 
What is the game plan when we are sent out?

I genuinely don't know what the plan is. It appears to be we go wide and cross the ball then repeat.

Last season he got it right on so many occasions. You could see his tactics and understand. Of course some mistakes along the way. Players were outstanding.

This season the players are getting questioned for performances which are a good bit off last season. The attitude and intensity.

What does the manager change at this point or do we keep going through the motions till it comes together?

Livingston in cup is coming up on Wednesday night and its shocking that we are still awaiting a performance to settle the support.

Really annoying because in the first half yesterday we weren't doing that. We were playing a lot of intricate passes in and around their box although at times trying to overdo it instead of just pulling the trigger.

Second half you could see the desperation setting in where the ball would be hit out to Barisic or Tav and they'd be firing aimless crosses into the box from 40 yards away.
 
Really annoying because in the first half yesterday we weren't doing that. We were playing a lot of intricate passes in and around their box although at times trying to overdo it instead of just pulling the trigger.

Second half you could see the desperation setting in where the ball would be hit out to Barisic or Tav and they'd be firing aimless crosses into the box from 40 yards away.

Since the start of the season that has been the overall plan I don't see much change on that from last season. Perhaps its that we are not getting the same rewards as teams know this.

I feel we need to be doing more of what you are saying. These sort of changes, however stats will show Beale or whoever where you get most success from. I.e the short corner routine.

As much as on reflection yes the 1st half wasn't bad, we done well for a big chunk v Ross County also.

The panic from the players along side movement has been a big issue this season thats for sure. Players getting it and looking for that square ball.
 
When we were playing at our best last season both fullbacks were bombing on and getting involved in the play in the final 3rd - Tav particularly was seen at his best. Teams eventually worked out you stifle us out wide then there is nothing coming from the midfield in a creative sense and the build up play is painfully slow when they do eventually venture forward.

How we haven't bought somebody who can link the midfield to attack is the biggest mystery when you consider who our manager is and what his role was.
 
The constant 'get it wide' passes really do my nut in. Even when we have been out wide and start to come in to the middle of the park, we then seem to want to play it out even wider. I swear one of these days, we will not be content until Kent or a full back has got the ball out on Edmiston Drive! During the warm up yesterday, you had Defoe laying balls off for the guys to shoot from edge of the box, in a central position. Come game play, we get ourselves into those positions and what do we do.........play the f*cking ball out wide!!!!
 
We don’t have a tall striker/target man, but we keep hitting high crosses into the box. Easy for the big defenders we are up against.
Crosses into the box are only affective to any of our front 3 when it’s between the goalkeeper and the defenders. Anything in the air is no use to us when our tallest striker is no bigger than 5’ 8 approx. Set pieces are different when Goldson/Helander and Balogun can get in amongst it, but in general play they need to be better
 
I love the wee man but when he refused to pass to Sakala in that breakaway I could have killed him.
However, I'd blame the new low-intensity strategy rather than the players.
At 56, I have been playing with the low-intensity strategy for a while now at the 5's. F*cking doesn't work for me either! :rolleyes:
 
I think a lot of our issues would be solved if the players just upped the tempo at which we play. Far too often we play an extra pass that we don't need or take too many touches. When we move the ball quickly teams can't live with us.
 
I honestly feel the manager changed how we played after the new year last year and its continued to now. For the first 6months we pressed teams into submission and ran them all over the park and after rhe new year a few performances apart we seem to sit off the game and allow teams to come on to us hoping to hit on the break but this year our whole team lacks intensity energy and pace if am honest. Am sure beale done an interview saying its not possible to play a pressing game constantly. I think especially with the midfield and how slow we seem to move the ball this season we look like a defensive side
 
What is the game plan when we are sent out?

I genuinely don't know what the plan is. It appears to be we go wide and cross the ball then repeat.

Last season he got it right on so many occasions. You could see his tactics and understand. Of course some mistakes along the way. Players were outstanding.

This season the players are getting questioned for performances which are a good bit off last season. The attitude and intensity.

What does the manager change at this point or do we keep going through the motions till it comes together?

Livingston in cup is coming up on Wednesday night and its shocking that we are still awaiting a performance to settle the support.
Whatever the game plan was, it wasn’t exactly failing in the first half.
How many very decent chances did we create?
I remember Roofe, Tavernier and Sakala have real 100% opportunities.
 
When your main goalscorer is being asked to drop deeper to link play with two goal shy number 10’s we wont win many games…

I’d play them slightly wider and let one of the midfield 3 as a secondary striker when the chance appears, leave Alfie to score the goals up top.
Morelos was a penalty box striker when he came he is now playing deep and laying off its ruined him and also ruining our chance of a decent price when we sell as his goals are drying up, I can see a situation where the likes of him and especially Patterson will become unsettled, it's a good dressing room we need at the moment not an unsettled one.
 
It's like Warburton all over again. Abject refusal to have a crack, no responsibility in the 18 yard box, just passing teams to death.

We need to be more direct and more ruthless, but I'm not entirely sure the tactics are totally to blame. We look totally lethargic and nonplussed.
 
What is the game plan when we are sent out?

I genuinely don't know what the plan is. It appears to be we go wide and cross the ball then repeat.

Last season he got it right on so many occasions. You could see his tactics and understand. Of course some mistakes along the way. Players were outstanding.

This season the players are getting questioned for performances which are a good bit off last season. The attitude and intensity.

What does the manager change at this point or do we keep going through the motions till it comes together?

Livingston in cup is coming up on Wednesday night and its shocking that we are still awaiting a performance to settle the support.
It's essentially a repeat of seasons 1 and 2 under Gerrard as you said get it wide and get it into the box and hope something comes off it's unacceptable.

We rely on our full backs too much to supply the attack.

We have very little coming from midfield we lack mobility, drive, aggression someone who can go advanced and play a killer pass.

We play with two number 10's and we don't use them enough imo they need to bring the creativity and cutting edge and chip in more with goals.

Tactics wise nothing else has changed but we don't look as fit or sharp as last season our intensity and drive hasn't been anywhere near as effective we look devoid of ideas and confidence.

Said it in the summer we needed to freshen up the team not just the squad and nothing I've seen so far has come as a surprise the signs incredibly were noticeable last season despise the brilliant league triumph.

3 players of quality were required this summer to go into the spine of the team we haven't addressed it.

A defender with pace and power.

A creative midfielder who can drive forward and make things happen.

A creative pacey right sided forward with cutting edge.

The above was required for me.

Next summer could see another major rebuild potentially it's a concern.
 
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Maybe some games we could be playing with 2 through the middle as opposed to our constant 4-3-3 although im not as clued up as much as our management and coaching staff.Probably why im posting on here and not in football at that level.
Bring back Pedro ffs
 
Morelos was a penalty box striker when he came he is now playing deep and laying off its ruined him and also ruining our chance of a decent price when we sell as his goals are drying up, I can see a situation where the likes of him and especially Patterson will become unsettled, it's a good dressing room we need at the moment not an unsettled one.

Give me the old Morelos every day of the week. The guy who basically single handedly kept us going for a season or two.

Honestly he used to terrorise defenders...ping the ball up to him and he'd roll defenders for fun and create chances out of nothing.
 
We are far too predictable, slow and cumbersome in our build up.
Too many players going through the motions, we don't take enough chances to get between the lines and no one taking players on
The predictable part especially
Teams now know how to handle us and hurt us
 
This makes it the players to blame, the tactics were fine.
See when he sees the players aren't carrying out the tactical instructions, think the manager should pull a couple of them over and tell them to stop phukking about and do what they've been, in theory, practicing all week?
 
Go to your bed mate we’re 4 clear we’ll pump Livingston! People like you will chase Gerrard away from Ibrox!
He will be away by the end of next season at the latest anyway. I suspect it will be before then though. He’s aged a lot in his time here and more regularly looks fed up than he used to.
 
In the 1st half v Motherwell Aribo Roofe and Wright seemed to have a freedom to wander. There link up play was excellent. 2 nd half they were rigid . Roofe in the middle Wright out left and Aribo right . No one was playing with freedom like the 1st half and they never linked up .
 
Dare I say it, Warburtonesq. No plan b, do
plan a over and over again expecting different results.
 
Plan a was working on Sunday. Ok granted we only scored 1 goal. Chances were created in 1st half. It was 3nd half that we lacked cohesion.
 
What is the game plan when we are sent out?

I genuinely don't know what the plan is. It appears to be we go wide and cross the ball then repeat.

Last season he got it right on so many occasions. You could see his tactics and understand. Of course some mistakes along the way. Players were outstanding.

This season the players are getting questioned for performances which are a good bit off last season. The attitude and intensity.

What does the manager change at this point or do we keep going through the motions till it comes together?

Livingston in cup is coming up on Wednesday night and its shocking that we are still awaiting a performance to settle the support.
Keep the ball, don't lose it sideways, backwards whatever but don't lose posession no matter how slow and in effectual our team looks.
 
We no longer have the pace(and discipline) in our team, Morelos hasn't looked fit for a while, and Roofe doesn’t look like he can run away from anyone.

Look at our best/successful performances in Europe over the past few years. Compact at the back, lightening on the break. Whether folk don’t like them as players you can’t underestimate the impact having genuine pace has.

16 Euro games in a row we had either Middleton, Ojo, or Barker starting, (Jones and Hastie got a start each). A majority on here wouldn’t have had any of them in the team.

When you have a front three of one of them, Morelos, Kent(Candeias previously) no team is pushing up on us the way they have lately.

Our midfield sits too deep, Arfield doesnt have the same bursts as he did, Davis is also less frequent and hasn’t been dominating games as he done. Airbo has no discipline and at times goes 2 forward one back. Hagi has no pace what so ever, Kamara does but doesn’t know what to do when he gets there.

Our system worked when we had the personnel for it too work, time has caught up with too many, Too many square pegs round holes.
 
I have noticed barisic on sunday never comes onto a ball he runs away from it. Few times he could come in and have a go. Instead he draws back and waits for ball to run to him.
 
We no longer have the pace(and discipline) in our team, Morelos hasn't looked fit for a while, and Roofe doesn’t look like he can run away from anyone.

Look at our best/successful performances in Europe over the past few years. Compact at the back, lightening on the break. Whether folk don’t like them as players you can’t underestimate the impact having genuine pace has.

16 Euro games in a row we had either Middleton, Ojo, or Barker starting, (Jones and Hastie got a start each). A majority on here wouldn’t have had any of them in the team.

When you have a front three of one of them, Morelos, Kent(Candeias previously) no team is pushing up on us the way they have lately.

Our midfield sits too deep, Arfield doesnt have the same bursts as he did, Davis is also less frequent and hasn’t been dominating games as he done. Airbo has no discipline and at times goes 2 forward one back. Hagi has no pace what so ever, Kamara does but doesn’t know what to do when he gets there.

Our system worked when we had the personnel for it too work, time has caught up with too many, Too many square pegs round holes.
This is where Sakala is key.

Worth stating that last season (our best in Europe) we played a front 3 generally of Kent, Alfie and one other out of Hagi, Roofe or Aribo, so the lack of pace didn't hinder us too much then. Quick passing and slick interplay can account for lack of pace but that hasn't clicked this season at all really.

I think the problem so far is as others (and yourself) have identified is midfield. Kamara is fine, but we're relying heavily on Davis a further year on, Aribo who is only really suited in there for specific games, Lundstram who has been poor generallyand doesn't seem to have the skills we need, and Arfield who is not really featuring and again is getting on. Won't touch on Jack for now.

A dynamic midfielder had to be the priority for the summer and we don't appear to have that player, unless Bacuna turns out to be that person.

We're still in a good position this season but I'd rather we addressed the concerns from a position of strength and not once we falter further.
 
This is where Sakala is key.

Worth stating that last season (our best in Europe) we played a front 3 generally of Kent, Alfie and one other out of Hagi, Roofe or Aribo, so the lack of pace didn't hinder us too much then. Quick passing and slick interplay can account for lack of pace but that hasn't clicked this season at all really.

I think the problem so far is as others (and yourself) have identified is midfield. Kamara is fine, but we're relying heavily on Davis a further year on, Aribo who is only really suited in there for specific games, Lundstram who has been poor generallyand doesn't seem to have the skills we need, and Arfield who is not really featuring and again is getting on. Won't touch on Jack for now.

A dynamic midfielder had to be the priority for the summer and we don't appear to have that player, unless Bacuna turns out to be that person.

We're still in a good position this season but I'd rather we addressed the concerns from a position of strength and not once we falter further.

To be honest hardly any of them have looked fully fit, particularly Alfie and Kent. Meaning there has been virtually no pace in the team at all. For all they got slated on here at times if Kent wasn’t at it we had other options in wide areas, Candeias, Murphy, Middleton, Ojo, Jones, Barker, even Hastie, now it’s just Wright.

It is probably more evident in Europe where we have won once, an unconvincing 1-0 against Alashkert losing 3 out the other 4, in fact it’s 1 win in our last 7 in Europe scoring only 4 goals. We had gone from 5 defeats in the previous 43, only 1 at home to Leverkusen, to now 3 loses out our last 4 in Europe at home.

It was obvious we weren’t going to reach the heights of last year particularly as 2 of our star men are touching 37 and 40 respectively. Even last year if we needed a goal or someone to lead the line we had Defoe even at 38, he is 39 in about a fortnight and hasn’t been seen his preseason.

It was if 55 was all that was needed, more have left than have come in. I never commented on the Sakala thread as I’ve not seen enough to comment, I don’t know where he fits in. I’ll be honest other than the Celtic 4-1 game I’ve yet to see a front line with Roofe and Morelos being effective, Morelos needs to be the main man with others providing for him. It’s as if we bought Roofe to replace him, then Sakala to replace him but he is still here and we now have square pegs round holes.
 
Just as with Motherwell it was another game of to halves.

Actually think hagi changes the whole game in terms of tactics he wanted to push us forward.

Almost like if put last 2 games together you'd have an excellent performance.
 
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