Ousmane Coulibaly, 32, suffers heart attack on pitch

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
I disagree. To compete at a high level you cover every aspect of fitness (more than a football player) and could quite easily clock up more running miles in a week than a pro football player.

The impact on muscles is on a far higher scale.

it's an entirely different type of fitness.

A lot of players concentrate on building muscle. In many cases its a vanity thing. Muscular strength isnt particularly useful to a footballer after a certain point. They'd be far better developing their aerobic fitness. Hitting the weights might make them appear to be really fit and healthy, but they're carrying extra muscle weight that isnt helping them during a 90 minute football game where they're expected to cover as much as 10k, usually in short sharp athletic bursts. Similar to hockey players. They play 45-50 second shifts at a time, but it's really high intensity. Physical strength is clearly important to them, but as important (if not more so) is their athletic and aerobic fitness.

Muscle strength really isnt that important for footballers.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
For what reason & points do you believe pro footballers put there body through more physical damage than high level combat sports?

These people play at high intensity once, maybe twice a week.

Not 5 days a week.

Hockey players play an 80+ game season, often playing 2 or 3 games in the space of 3 days and regularly playing 4 games in a week. They do that whilst also travelling across North America. They could finish a game at 10pm in Montreal and travel for a 5pm game in Colorado the following day.
 

Mr Han

Well-Known Member
Wenger can %^*& off with his plans for extra football. Lads are being pushed on the daily before they're even in double digits age wise.
 

WATP

Well-Known Member
Football is so spiky in terms of intensity and coupled with it lasting 90 minutes it’s a mixture of endurance and power. I’m not convinced the speed of the modern game is good for the human body!
Was it ever shared as to what condition Aguero was diagnosed with that made him retire?
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
Football is so spiky in terms of intensity and coupled with it lasting 90 minutes it’s a mixture of endurance and power. I’m not convinced the speed of the modern game is good for the human body!
Was it ever shared as to what condition Aguero was diagnosed with that made him retire?

I think the game would be better slowed down a little. Imagine a player like Robert Prosineki in the modern era? Or Zvonimir Boban? Hagi? Stoichkov? Players who were great in the 80s or 90s based on their skill but who would be blowing out their arse after half an hour of a modern top flight game.
 

mdingwall

Administrator
I think the game would be better slowed down a little. Imagine a player like Robert Prosineki in the modern era? Or Zvonimir Boban? Hagi? Stoichkov? Players who were great in the 80s or 90s based on their skill but who would be blowing out their arse after half an hour of a modern top flight game.
No they wouldn’t. They would adapt and be trained accordingly.

if you watch the famous Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt game it is played at a vet slow pace - but the skills and close control are fantastic.
 

Teddy bear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
There seems to be lots of these lately in footballers.
Are they just getting reported more, especially since Eriksen and it makes it feel like there's more?
 

Galstonian Oranje

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I disagree. To compete at a high level you cover every aspect of fitness (more than a football player) and could quite easily clock up more running miles in a week than a pro football player.

The impact on muscles is on a far higher scale.
I've found excess running to be counter productive to the mainly anaerobic fitness for fighting. It's completely different. In my experience, I dont think you can have both types of fitness exclusively together
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
No they wouldn’t. They would adapt and be trained accordingly.

if you watch the famous Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt game it is played at a vet slow pace - but the skills and close control are fantastic.

Those skills were great in a game played at a slower pace. They wouldn't transfer to the modern era. It's the same argument with the likes of Messi and Ronaldo - would modern skills players survive in previous eras where the game was different and players regularly made the kind of tackles that would put Messi or Ronaldo in hospital? Or on pitches that often resembled farmers fields?

You could improve Boban or Prosinecki's fitness and the pace they played the game at, but it would be at a cost and would change who they were and what they did as players. The game has changed massively. We're now seeing the impact of those changes and a move to a far more physically demanding form of football that puts different and increased stress on players.
 

Ger77

Active Member
Official Ticketer
There's far too much of this happening these days.

Something is definitely not right. I wonder at times about some of the things these guys are putting in their body to gain that little advantage at the request of their teams/sports scientists.
Yeah it seems to be happening far too often now, I thought players stats were monitored in training and during games etc, surely the monitoring is designed to detect any potential issues and schedule training and recovery sessions accordingly.
 

Helensburgh True Blue

Well-Known Member
Get well soon Ousmane Coulibaly, our thoughts are with your family and friends at this dreadful time. It’s happening too often now, something needs to change. Their obviously training players to their limits everyday, without much rest because of all the competitions nowadays.
 

Born a Barras Hick

Well-Known Member
I sometimes think if it could be that their bodies are getting pushed too much to the limits.

If it was really a case of physical limits being reached, I'd expect to see more of this in other sports. Tennis players, elite triathlon, cycling are just 3 that come immediately to mind as being more demanding.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
No they wouldn’t. They would adapt and be trained accordingly.

if you watch the famous Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt game it is played at a vet slow pace - but the skills and close control are fantastic.

What if their body couldn't cope with the demands of the modern game?

Not everybody can tune their body to those performance levels, otherwise we could all be olympians if we wished to be.
 

Bigbluebear

Well-Known Member
If it was really a case of physical limits being reached, I'd expect to see more of this in other sports. Tennis players, elite triathlon, cycling are just 3 that come immediately to mind as being more demanding.

I think the thing with that is that generally it's people who have the physical requirements for those sports who excel at them.

In football its a talent with a ball that gets people noticed and then the physical aspect can be added after, but not everyone's body is built to deal with that
 

Kathmandu

Well-Known Member
Footballers and heart conditions seem to go together a lot more than you would think. I remember being astounded when the super fit Souness had to have a triple bypass.
 

Kit_

Well-Known Member
Hope he’s on the mend

Stress and isolation can definitely be contributing factors combined with the demands of the modern game.
 

Guerilla

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the strain on these guys compares to the likes of a Tour De France cyclist. Do they die early? I imagine old Lance pushed his heart as far as is humanly possible.
 

ResoluteLoyal73

Well-Known Member
You think professional football pushes 'athletes' bodies to the limit?
Sports nutrition or performance enhancing supplements have been established in football clubs preparations for over twenty years. Think back to Tony Adams talking about Wegner banning alcohol , providing vitamin b12 injections on mass.
I think there are highly potent pro hormone supplements on the market today that footballers may be taking to assist their conditioning.
These are widely available throughout Europe. Looking at the physical conditioning of players, some are like light heavyweight boxers. Obviously it could primarily be CHD/genetics.
The PFA need to challenge reform of the sport if these tragedies continue . The training overload may be damaging these sportsmen.
Get well soon .
 

Bearsdenloyal

Well-Known Member
Or some new stimulant. If anyone has ever used ephedrine for example it can push u beyond your limits. Its a bit old school and probably tested for though but not to say something else isn’t around.
Remember all the Dutch players with nandrolene in the 90s
 

HogieBlueBear

Well-Known Member
Today's sport is full of sports science, clean eating and generally just far higher standards of fitness yet this seems to grow more and and more common. It's almost like clubs should encourage smoking, binge drinking and unhealthy diet.

Has it always been an issue and just not reported on as much?
Used to love a fag at half time..... lol!
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
Think the world we live in now we know more about stuff like this tbf. 15 - 20 years ago we wouldnt know about football in Qatar.
That aside, hope he makes a full recovery.
Yes but what’s changed in only a year, as you rightly pointed out, the internet has brought information from around the world to our screens, realistically in the last 15-20 years, but I wasn’t seeing all of these reports in the last year or two……athletes, sportsmen, referees, and officials, and spectators. There must be a common denominator.
 

coolatballet

Well-Known Member
No they wouldn’t. They would adapt and be trained accordingly.

if you watch the famous Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt game it is played at a vet slow pace - but the skills and close control are fantastic.
I have watched recently.

Honestly, we would have gubbed either team 5 or 6 nil with our 2013 team.

It was like watching 2 pub teams.

Controversial, I know, but look at the defending. It was murder.
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
With the amount of money in football there is probably some very high level doping going on that is outside of testing criteria. Look how cycling managed it with a fraction of the money. Or people pushing their body so far out with its ability that it crashes on them like we see with heart issues.
But that doesn’t account for the growing incidents of spectators also collapsing at matches, unless they all happen to footballers, and it hasn’t been mentioned……which I’m pretty sure they’re not going by age,etc
 

Gibraltar Loyal

Well-Known Member
Yes but what’s changed in only a year, as you rightly pointed out, the internet has brought information from around the world to our screens, realistically in the last 15-20 years, but I wasn’t seeing all of these reports in the last year or two……athletes, sportsmen, referees, and officials, and spectators. There must be a common denominator.
Spectators have always fallen ill at games. This season for whatever reason club physios are getting involved and players taken off. Thats new for this season. Im not sure there is a common denominator as such
 

Das Phantom Tormaschine

Well-Known Member
Spectators have always fallen ill at games. This season for whatever reason club physios are getting involved and players taken off. Thats new for this season. Im not sure there is a common denominator as such
I agree that there several possible reasons for it and not one definitive answer as to why its happening but people should be allowed to talk about what they personally feel about it.
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
If it was really a case of physical limits being reached, I'd expect to see more of this in other sports. Tennis players, elite triathlon, cycling are just 3 that come immediately to mind as being more demanding.
There have been incidents, only recently, in tennis, but there’s been an especially large amount of incidents with cyclists just collapsing…….Spanish scientists from Al Maria university have been documenting it in the videos they produce. But as I mentioned, that theory doesn’t really stand up when you include the increasing amount of spectators collapsing at marches, which is being reported too.
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
Spectators have always fallen ill at games. This season for whatever reason club physios are getting involved and players taken off. Thats new for this season. Im not sure there is a common denominator as such
I agree but the common denominator this year seems to be all the same symptoms, mainly heart problems or fits
 

Louch

Well-Known Member
But that doesn’t account for the growing incidents of spectators also collapsing at matches, unless they all happen to footballers, and it hasn’t been mentioned……which I’m pretty sure they’re not going by age,etc
Used to be tweets all the Time with people asking for updates on people who had taken Ill at games. That players are stopping games for things in the stand is the only new part
 

bear wi nae hair

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't rule it out. EPO was rife in the cycling world, and that was after they had brought in drug testing. They simply didn't know what to test for for years. There's no reason why there isn't some new undetectable drug that is having adverse affects on people.

With all the money in the game, you can certainly see why someone would be willing to take something to give them the edge over others.
Wasn’t the Dr - Fuentes? - who was working with Lance Armstrong and his team found to have worked with the Spanish National team, Barca, Madrid and Nadal?
 

Badger

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t the Dr - Fuentes? - who was working with Lance Armstrong and his team found to have worked with the Spanish National team, Barca, Madrid and Nadal?
Dr Ferrari will the Dr who was working with lance. Well that's the one I know of. Not sure if he worked with others and I certainly wasn't aware of any doping convictions for those you mentioned. I'd need to do some reading.
 

bear wi nae hair

Well-Known Member
Dr Ferrari will the Dr who was working with lance. Well that's the one I know of. Not sure if he worked with others and I certainly wasn't aware of any doping convictions for those you mentioned. I'd need to do some reading.
The article I read years ago was a Dr Fuentes and one of the world doing committees locked down a lab in Spain where it was alleged there were blood samples from all of the above. The Spanish High Court then overruled the decision and everything in the lab was destroyed. It came across as dodgy as hell and was around the time Spain and their club sides were absolutely dominant
 

Badger

Well-Known Member
The article I read years ago had one of the world doing committees lock down a lab in Spain where it was alleged there were blood samples from all of the above. The Spanish High Court then overruled the decision and everything in the lab was destroyed. It came across as dodgy as hell and was around the time Spain and their club sides were absolutely dominant
If it is the same ferrari guy then I would assume he was uo to something. I'll need to dig in to what you're saying to see if I can find out more.

I find the whole moral debate of doping fascinating. I hated Lance until I heard him on a podcast and watched his documentary. Doping is wrong, it's cheating but I understand fully why you would when faced with not being able to compete because those at the top of the sport are doing it.
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
Whatever is causing this, it’s absolutely tragic……and I feel after seeing so many of these threads now, that it’s generally accepted by the majority that it is indeed happening more often (in fact studies have been carried out which gave results of something like a 50% increase in incidents with professional footballers this year alone.) And for those who’ve sadly lost their lives, over participating ina sport they probably loved, I sympathise immensely. On the other side of this, I also feel extremely sorry for them that a lot of voices are suggesting that they may be putting illegal or banned substances into their bodies to gain an advantage, when the majority of them could be just extremely fair sportsmen, and for some, they’ll never have the chance to defend these accusations and suggestions………,very sad.
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
Can you point me in the direction of your data?
I’m purely going by the reports I hear same as everyone else mate, I’m not trying to make this a scientific study, just to say that whenever you hear these reports mentioned it seems to me heart problems in the main…..I’ve seen a few defribs used by the staff etc too
 

Jimbo 1690

Well-Known Member
Used to be tweets all the Time with people asking for updates on people who had taken Ill at games. That players are stopping games for things in the stand is the only new part
But is that not because the incidents were seeing are more serious, requiring defibs and resuscitation etc?
 

bob1873

Well-Known Member
I, like others, wonder if it is just reported more in this era.

Good luck to the lad.
Was about to post that very question. Is it more common? It was certainly something I’d not been aware of when the Bolton lad collapsed at Spurs then Erickson at the Euros but now there seems to be a thread every week about some player collapsing or am I imagining that?
 

bear wi nae hair

Well-Known Member
If it is the same ferrari guy then I would assume he was uo to something. I'll need to dig in to what you're saying to see if I can find out more.

I find the whole moral debate of doping fascinating. I hated Lance until I heard him on a podcast and watched his documentary. Doping is wrong, it's cheating but I understand fully why you would when faced with not being able to compete because those at the top of the sport are doing it.
Definitely Fuentes mate but interesting none the less. Clear links to lots of Spanish teams and sportsmen
 

oranje-viola

Well-Known Member
The article I read years ago was a Dr Fuentes and one of the world doing committees locked down a lab in Spain where it was alleged there were blood samples from all of the above. The Spanish High Court then overruled the decision and everything in the lab was destroyed. It came across as dodgy as hell and was around the time Spain and their club sides were absolutely dominant
Two high-profile Spanish players - one a young star tipped to go onto the very top and the other an established player recently made captain of his side - died of heart attacks around that time of Operation Puerto and EPO being the buzzword in cycling.

Dani jarque - Espanyol captain
Antonio Puerta - Sevilla

According to wiki Puerta’s was a long-term previously dormant and unknown heart issue. Jarque less clear. Spanish football kinda did come from being a 2nd tier national team to being utterly dominant with their tiki-taka by 2008 when they were no-where in 2004-06.

Also the Fiorentina captain died in his sleep a few years ago in another high profile European young healthy footballer death. Going back further you’ve got Miklos Feher of Benfica (2004) and Vivien-Foe in 2003 who sadly both died on the pitch and televised.

But the spate of heart related concerns, injuries, emergencies etc over the last while - especially the last year - has been like nothing I’ve known previously. Yes football is ever more globalised and interconnected hence finding out about these incidents in ever more obscure leagues and places but the trends are concerning
 

90minsofmadness

Well-Known Member
I think a large amount of football players these days will be on stuff to increase their endurance etc.

They’ve been caught in other stuff like the olympics so why not football? Think there’s been a few good articles about PED’s in football.
I'm not saying all are. And obviously there's are many players with heart defects such as our own Connor goldson and the lad who was at wycome last year which are unknown. But I do personally get a feeling it's becoming more and more common due to PED use.
 

TW1988

Well-Known Member
Hope he recovers, football aside just to live a normal life.
Its astounding the rise of these incidents in the last 2-4 years or so.
There has to be a reason and surely it warrants a full and in depth investigation.
 

Gibraltar Loyal

Well-Known Member
I’m purely going by the reports I hear same as everyone else mate, I’m not trying to make this a scientific study, just to say that whenever you hear these reports mentioned it seems to me heart problems in the main…..I’ve seen a few defribs used by the staff etc too
Thats my point, you never really read about these things at other games. There used to be threads on here asking how the guy at a certain area was that was being attended to. Never reported in press but that didnt mean it didnt happen. There was no threads asking why this was happening or what might be causing it. Sadly people fall ill at games all the time, but then it is a stressful situation watching football and id argue that most are of an age where heart issues would be prevalent.
 

Galstonian Oranje

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Another two high profile players identified with heart issues. Serious discussion are needed although Davies looks covid related.


 

Somemightsay

Well-Known Member
There needs to be an independent investigation into heart related incidents in sport.

The regularity of this has gone through the roof.

Potentially it's a long term effect of COVID but none the less, we've gone from one or two incidents a year to what seems like one or two a month.
 
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