Pele claims he was a better player than ‘one skill’ Lionel Messi

Discussion in 'The Bear Pit' started by Bonnyloyal, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Diego Maradona

    Diego Maradona Well-Known Member Official Ticketer

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    Clearly a fake. £30 software
     
  2. govwalker

    govwalker Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense.

    They could KICK anything that moved back then for a start. Nowadays Messi is touched and it's foul while running on pitches like bowling greens compared to Maradona's or Pele's day.

    That's just for starters. Add into it a Barcelona team full of superstars.
     
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  3. Captain Cutlass

    Captain Cutlass Well-Known Member Official Ticketer

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    And that is exactly why I still consider him to be the finest football player to ever grace the game!
     
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  4. Alex Boyce

    Alex Boyce Well-Known Member

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    What messi's hardon?!!!!!
     
  5. Renoranger

    Renoranger Well-Known Member

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    Edson Arantes Do Nascimento - Pele.

    The standard.
     
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  6. Bluerhap

    Bluerhap Active Member

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    Jaerzhino, Revilino, even Felix was a great keeper. Even though I was taken to Ibrox every fortnight since aged four watching that team when I was nine made me fall in love with football.
     
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  7. Square and compass

    Square and compass Well-Known Member

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    Aye and with an overhead kick.
    And escaped too.
    Beat that Steve McQueen
     
  8. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Member

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    Dino Zoff was the best ever.
     
  9. Kinbo

    Kinbo Well-Known Member

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    Be more afraid of the person who practices one move a hundred times than the one who practices a hundred moves one time
     
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  10. Peekaboo

    Peekaboo Active Member

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    Look at the games Pele played in. The score lines were huge compared to nowadays. It was far more open and teams played with more up front than in defense. It is harder to score now.
     
  11. JMCK

    JMCK Well-Known Member

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    I'm too young to know how good Pele or George Best were, but you didn't include Best in that? I remember some people saying Best was the best ever- looking at clips of Best in his prime he looks to have been very similar to Cryuff in some respects.
     
  12. mart22

    mart22 Well-Known Member

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    Pele is qualified to judge. I reckon he is better than Messi. But what did he make of big Hatch?
     
  13. stuart01x

    stuart01x Active Member

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    Nothing wrong wi that!!

    I scored most of my goals against pub teams!!
     
  14. stuart01x

    stuart01x Active Member

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    Wow. Taxi!!!!!!
     
  15. Sam English

    Sam English Well-Known Member

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    I also reckon that Pele was better than Messi,

    Pele was the highlight of many World Cup's when I was younger.
     
  16. mart22

    mart22 Well-Known Member

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    Pele won one of his three world cups with Brazil in Sweden. In Pele's era there was little movement of players between countries. No big transfer fees either. Agents weren't invented yet, and clubs called the shots.
     
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  17. douzpwa

    douzpwa Well-Known Member

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    Tbf the past few decades of players did not have to avoid the kind of tackles opposing players were allowed to get away with back in the day albeit a few tackles against us in today's era in Scotland would not go amis back then but then this is bitter Scotland! Pele is the greatest of all time imo!
     
  18. dt17

    dt17 Well-Known Member

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    Always worth reposting this when people say Maradona won things 'on his own' :rolleyes:

    http://www.averageopposition.com/2012/03/the-myth-of-maradona.html

    Alex Ferguson said it before that great players would've been great players in any era...I'd agree with that. But to say Messi can't be ahead of Pele or Maradona because he hasn't won a World Cup is ludicrous. He's won every other title imaginable (several times) and his consistency sets him apart from anyone else IMO.

    The physical demands are much higher on players nowadays as well. They regularly play twice a week and over 60 games per season...can the same be said back in the Pele / Maradona eras? Fitness was nothing back then.

    In every other sporting field, athlete's today would wipe the floor with athletes of the past...the same would be true with footballers.
     
  19. dh1963

    dh1963 Well-Known Member

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    Coming next.... Ryan Christie is better than Jim Baxter o_O
     
  20. KGer1872

    KGer1872 Well-Known Member

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    See he doesn't talk Ronaldo down. Case settled then...
     
  21. mart22

    mart22 Well-Known Member

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    This post instantly goes down in FF legend! I've never read anything quite like it before:D
     
  22. douzpwa

    douzpwa Well-Known Member

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    He played against the Worlds best players including those who played in Europe and he shone!
     
  23. a_weir

    a_weir Well-Known Member

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    Why? Standard of football was dire 60 years ago.

    Being streets ahead for your time doesn’t make you streets ahead forever.
     
  24. dh1963

    dh1963 Well-Known Member

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    Pele scored international goals against Argentina, Paraguay, Bulgaria, Soviet Union, Wales, France, Sweden, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, England, United Arab Emirates, Denmark, Portugal, Mexico, Czechoslovakia, Holland, West Germany, Italy, Belgium, Algeria, Poland, Scotland, Yugoslavia, Colombia, Venezuela, Austria and Romania.

    77 goals in 95 internationals.

    He didn't need to play in Europe to score against most of their best defenders!
     
  25. govwalker

    govwalker Well-Known Member

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    When talking about the GOAT we are talking about footballing ability etc not just trophies.

    It's pretty easy to win trophies in the comfort of that Barca team for years surrounded by Superstars.

    Maradona won the WC practically dragging his nation too it.

    He's proved himself in the best league in the world with a middle of the road team winning the championship. Those are the cold hard facts. Messi couldn't lace his boots.
     
  26. dt17

    dt17 Well-Known Member

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    Neymar will surpass his goal tally for Brazil, is he better than Pele?

    "in the comfort of that Barca team"

    Aye coz it must be a stroll in the park being the best player in the world, at one of the best teams in the world, for the best part of 15 years...piece of piss. Worth remembering that he moved from his home country at the age of 12/13 and pushed genuine superstars such as Ronaldinho and Eto'o out the way.

    La Liga is also the best league in the world, has been for yonks...how did Maradona get on at Barca?

    I'm not disputing that Pele and Maradona were great, but people remember them for a few games at the World Cup - today's footballers are under the microscope 24/7 with every game being broken down and analysed to death.
     
  27. dh1963

    dh1963 Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    The post was in response to he never played against the best in Europe.
     
  28. a_weir

    a_weir Well-Known Member

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    This thread is about who was/is the better player, not greatness.

    The two are distinct.
     
  29. douzpwa

    douzpwa Well-Known Member

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    A longer and more detailed version of my point, we are in total agreement! ;)
     
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  30. BattlefieldBear

    BattlefieldBear Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly how I feel aswell.

    Watch this 2min clip of Fred Perry winning Wimbledon:



    Just look at those serves. No, that's not the warm up, that's actual play in the final of a Grand Slam event. Fucking look at them!

    The standards in every sport are progressing every generation. Messi, Ronaldo and the likes are light years ahead of Pele.
     
  31. a_weir

    a_weir Well-Known Member

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    Yep! And that footage is sped up.

    People are confusing ‘greatest’ with ‘best’.
     
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  32. pelem

    pelem Well-Known Member

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    Pele disnae need tae claim....He is Simply the Best.

    # Better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone we've ever met #.
     
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  33. mart22

    mart22 Well-Known Member

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    It was the egotism, the time machine, and the total disrespect of player's ability from the 60's and 70's. If you can't play international football today then you sure couldn't play it in the 60's and 70's either.
     
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  34. mart22

    mart22 Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline. Fred Perry coming up in modern era tennis with all its evolution, or Federer coming up as tennis was establishing itself. How would Roger cope working a full time job, using old wooden rackets, old time training methods, and wearing long trousers! It has to be ability v ability, rather than decade v decade.
     
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  35. Mermaid

    Mermaid New Member

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    Best, Pele and Beckenbauer my top three. Like somebody said earlier these guys played when the game was a contact sport. Best would run amok now.
     
  36. BobbyShearer55-65

    BobbyShearer55-65 Well-Known Member

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    I think all that Viagra has went to Pele's big head rather than his little one.

    He obviously has a beef with Messi, but to downplay his skills, abilities and achievements is simply ludicrous and reeks of bitterness.

    Messi, love him or loathe him, is quite rightly regarded as one of the greatest individuals ever to have taken to a football field. To try and diminish that is just moronic.
     
  37. EKBB

    EKBB Well-Known Member Official Ticketer

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    On the other hand if you put Pele in to days modern game he would probably be blowing out his arse after not long such is the higher level of fitness.
     
  38. govwalker

    govwalker Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense comparison. Seriously where do we start?

    Football is by far a different beast altogether than tennis. Pitches like bowling greens compared to cow fields then. Players like Messi tickled and it's a foul compared to right dirty bastard hatchet men when Pele and Maradona played.

    Sitting in the comfort of a Barca team surrounded by Superstars for years is hardly a comparison to what Maradona did and how good he was.

    Unless you are under 30 years old.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  39. Jacrispy

    Jacrispy Well-Known Member

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    Old timers will always claim these old punters were the best. But just watch highlights from Pele’s era, the standard is a joke, it’s embarrassing to be perfectly honest.

    And none of these guys had to perform in the modern age where a footballers every move is heavily scrutinised both on and off the pitch.

    Far more pressure on players now days than when floppy cock and el junkie were plying their trade.
     
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  40. RFCest1872

    RFCest1872 Well-Known Member

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    If Zidane didn't headbutt %^*& outta Materazzi and finish career with another world cup he would be best ever.
    But he did in my generation top 3:
    Messi
    Zidane
    Ronaldinho
     
  41. Cumbernauld gers

    Cumbernauld gers Well-Known Member

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    Pele talking pish again.

    He played in a era of utter pish gks, Messi is playing in the best era for gks and def and how tough the game is.

    Messi would have scored 10 times pele goals in that era.
     
  42. BattlefieldBear

    BattlefieldBear Well-Known Member

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    In 19th century, the FA Cup was the absolute pinnacle of world football, the Champions League, Premier League and World Cup rolled into one. In the first decade of it's inception, Wanderers won the trophy an incredible 7 times. If it's all relative, shall we place some of those Wanderers players up there in 'the greatest ever' lists?

    How would Pele have coped with the Old Etonian etiquette, having to balance military duties and also having to represent his county at first-class cricket alongside football commitments? Oh, and wearing long trousers!

    How good would the Wanderers' players be having benefitted from the highly advanced 1950s Brazilian training methods, the much more desirable weather conditions in South America, and being able to work full-time on their football skills?

    You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline.
     
  43. a_weir

    a_weir Well-Known Member

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    Nothing egotistical about it at all. I am shite at football.

    However, in 1958, everyone else was shite as well. See for yourself:

     
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  44. RFC97

    RFC97 Well-Known Member

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    What an old fanny.
     
  45. The Moon on Mars is Blue

    The Moon on Mars is Blue Well-Known Member

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    Having seen them all, Pele was the best followed by Maradona then Messi/Ronaldo
     
  46. Georgesky01

    Georgesky01 Active Member

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    He wouldn’t have survived in those days, pele was the best
     
  47. Arkansasgerstill

    Arkansasgerstill Well-Known Member

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    All of which may be true, and yet still none of them can match Pele’s goalscoring record. Ah but he didn’t play in Europe...why would he when the players that won 3 World Cups out of 4 in his era didn’t either.
     
  48. Zandermac

    Zandermac Active Member

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    I don't know how anyone on here who seen Pele play can slag him, he was one of the best. We had a true world-class player on our shores as well . George Best was asgood as any one around.
     
  49. Arkansasgerstill

    Arkansasgerstill Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that those pub teams contributed ALL THE PLAYERS that won the World Cup in 58, 62, and 70? Not sure whether you are uneducated in football history. Thank goodness Pele had dreadful misses, can you imagine had he been any good he would have scored even more than a 1000 goals.
     
  50. basiltherat

    basiltherat Well-Known Member

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    It's impossible to compare players across generations as the game is very different in terms of tactics, defensive awareness and fitness
    The games Messi plays in are far more intense than those of the 59s and 60s
    However those dismissing Pele as bitter, senile and floppy cock embarass themselves
    I only really caught the tail end of his career with the 70 World Cup being the first time I saw him play on the telly. I was quite young and there really wasn't much football and certainly not much foreign football seen by a wee boy in a council scheme in darkest Ayrshire in those days
    It was, and remains, the greatest festival of football I have ever seen and Pele was at the pinnacle of it.
    The colour of the strips, the colour of the players (there were very few black players in the UK game at the time - let alone all the shades in between - and that was just Brazil), even the fact that this was coming live from Mexico (on a fairly dodgy signal which only added to the glamou) made this a serious life highlight
    I would imagine it is difficult for anyone under 50 to even begin to understand the impact this could have
    Pele changed perceptions. He rose above the game. He made everyone I knew support Brazil. He did things you never saw in the British game - he bent the ball, he lobbed the keeper from halfway, he dummies the keeper in the most outrageous fashion - he made all of us realise the game could be beautiful. Not alone of course but he was the biggest part of it.
    He did it all whilst being fouled in a fashion unimaginable to the likes of Ronaldo. Apart from a very few notable incidents he did not retaliate.
    He made me love football
    For that reason he'll always be the best to me.
    I am not senile or floppy cocked enough to realise that this is in large part due to the time I happened to be born
    I would be hugely surprised if a football game or tournament ever made me feel that way again. I usually don't even bother watching very much of the World Cup these days
     

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