Pele claims he was a better player than ‘one skill’ Lionel Messi

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, and defences weren't as organised in Maradona's time as they are now .
Nonsense.

They could KICK anything that moved back then for a start. Nowadays Messi is touched and it's foul while running on pitches like bowling greens compared to Maradona's or Pele's day.

That's just for starters. Add into it a Barcelona team full of superstars.
 

Captain Cutlass

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Probably a generation thing, but when I was growing up it seemed the whole football world accepted Pele was the greatest.

Not just the youngest ever to play in the world cup final. At 17, he then scored twice in it including one incredible bit of skill.

I remember the 1970 team, they were football perfection. And Pele was their general, the main man, and a total genius.
And that is exactly why I still consider him to be the finest football player to ever grace the game!
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
Nonsense.

They could KICK anything that moved back then for a start. Nowadays Messi is touched and it's foul while running on pitches like bowling greens compared to Maradona's or Pele's day.

That's just for starters. Add into it a Barcelona team full of superstars.
Look at the games Pele played in. The score lines were huge compared to nowadays. It was far more open and teams played with more up front than in defense. It is harder to score now.
 

JMCK

Well-Known Member
Pele is correct . He and maradona are miles ahead of the rest .

Messi would be 5th or 6th mind you so I think peles comments on him having one skill are frankly ridiculous .

For me it’s Pele, Maradona, Cryff , Michael Laudrup , Messi in that order .
I'm too young to know how good Pele or George Best were, but you didn't include Best in that? I remember some people saying Best was the best ever- looking at clips of Best in his prime he looks to have been very similar to Cryuff in some respects.
 

stuart01x

Well-Known Member
I tend to dismiss anyone's football knowledge if they don't agree that Maradona was the greatest.

That includes the blabbering Pele. Highlight reel full of dreadful misses and a career of goals v pub teams.
Nothing wrong wi that!!

I scored most of my goals against pub teams!!
 

stuart01x

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
Wow. Taxi!!!!!!
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Pele was a great player, but he never played in Europe, unfortunately as he has got older he has become a bit stupid,
Pele won one of his three world cups with Brazil in Sweden. In Pele's era there was little movement of players between countries. No big transfer fees either. Agents weren't invented yet, and clubs called the shots.
 

douzpwa

Well-Known Member
Most goals scored in a season by Maradona - 43
Messi has surpassed this 7 times in the past decade, Messi is the greatest
Tbf the past few decades of players did not have to avoid the kind of tackles opposing players were allowed to get away with back in the day albeit a few tackles against us in today's era in Scotland would not go amis back then but then this is bitter Scotland! Pele is the greatest of all time imo!
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
Always worth reposting this when people say Maradona won things 'on his own' :rolleyes:

http://www.averageopposition.com/2012/03/the-myth-of-maradona.html

Alex Ferguson said it before that great players would've been great players in any era...I'd agree with that. But to say Messi can't be ahead of Pele or Maradona because he hasn't won a World Cup is ludicrous. He's won every other title imaginable (several times) and his consistency sets him apart from anyone else IMO.

The physical demands are much higher on players nowadays as well. They regularly play twice a week and over 60 games per season...can the same be said back in the Pele / Maradona eras? Fitness was nothing back then.

In every other sporting field, athlete's today would wipe the floor with athletes of the past...the same would be true with footballers.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
Coming next.... Ryan Christie is better than Jim Baxter o_O
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
This post instantly goes down in FF legend! I've never read anything quite like it before:D
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
He played against the Worlds best players including those who played in Europe and he shone!
Pele scored international goals against Argentina, Paraguay, Bulgaria, Soviet Union, Wales, France, Sweden, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, England, United Arab Emirates, Denmark, Portugal, Mexico, Czechoslovakia, Holland, West Germany, Italy, Belgium, Algeria, Poland, Scotland, Yugoslavia, Colombia, Venezuela, Austria and Romania.

77 goals in 95 internationals.

He didn't need to play in Europe to score against most of their best defenders!
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Always worth reposting this when people say Maradona won things 'on his own' :rolleyes:

http://www.averageopposition.com/2012/03/the-myth-of-maradona.html

Alex Ferguson said it before that great players would've been great players in any era...I'd agree with that. But to say Messi can't be ahead of Pele or Maradona because he hasn't won a World Cup is ludicrous. He's won every other title imaginable (several times) and his consistency sets him apart from anyone else IMO.

The physical demands are much higher on players nowadays as well. They regularly play twice a week and over 60 games per season...can the same be said back in the Pele / Maradona eras? Fitness was nothing back then.

In every other sporting field, athlete's today would wipe the floor with athletes of the past...the same would be true with footballers.
When talking about the GOAT we are talking about footballing ability etc not just trophies.

It's pretty easy to win trophies in the comfort of that Barca team for years surrounded by Superstars.

Maradona won the WC practically dragging his nation too it.

He's proved himself in the best league in the world with a middle of the road team winning the championship. Those are the cold hard facts. Messi couldn't lace his boots.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
Pele scored international goals against Argentina, Paraguay, Bulgaria, Soviet Union, Wales, France, Sweden, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, England, United Arab Emirates, Denmark, Portugal, Mexico, Czechoslovakia, Holland, West Germany, Italy, Belgium, Algeria, Poland, Scotland, Yugoslavia, Colombia, Venezuela, Austria and Romania.

77 goals in 95 internationals.

He didn't need to play in Europe to score against most of their best defenders!
Neymar will surpass his goal tally for Brazil, is he better than Pele?

When talking about the GOAT we are talking about footballing ability etc not just trophies.

It's pretty easy to win trophies in the comfort of that Barca team for years surrounded by Superstars.

Maradona won the WC practically dragging his nation too it.

He's proved himself in the best league in the world with a middle of the road team winning the championship. Those are the cold hard facts. Messi couldn't lace his boots.
"in the comfort of that Barca team"

Aye coz it must be a stroll in the park being the best player in the world, at one of the best teams in the world, for the best part of 15 years...piece of piss. Worth remembering that he moved from his home country at the age of 12/13 and pushed genuine superstars such as Ronaldinho and Eto'o out the way.

La Liga is also the best league in the world, has been for yonks...how did Maradona get on at Barca?

I'm not disputing that Pele and Maradona were great, but people remember them for a few games at the World Cup - today's footballers are under the microscope 24/7 with every game being broken down and analysed to death.
 

a_weir

Well-Known Member
When talking about the GOAT we are talking about footballing ability etc not just trophies.

It's pretty easy to win trophies in the comfort of that Barca team for years surrounded by Superstars.

Maradona won the WC practically dragging his nation too it.

He's proved himself in the best league in the world with a middle of the road team winning the championship. Those are the cold hard facts. Messi couldn't lace his boots.
This thread is about who was/is the better player, not greatness.

The two are distinct.
 

douzpwa

Well-Known Member
Pele scored international goals against Argentina, Paraguay, Bulgaria, Soviet Union, Wales, France, Sweden, Peru, Chile, Bolivia, Uruguay, England, United Arab Emirates, Denmark, Portugal, Mexico, Czechoslovakia, Holland, West Germany, Italy, Belgium, Algeria, Poland, Scotland, Yugoslavia, Colombia, Venezuela, Austria and Romania.

77 goals in 95 internationals.

He didn't need to play in Europe to score against most of their best defenders!
A longer and more detailed version of my point, we are in total agreement! ;)
 

BattlefieldBear

Well-Known Member
Whenever this thread comes up I try to imagine peak Federer blasting the ball past peak Fred Perry. These guys would look like aliens if they went back in time.
This is exactly how I feel aswell.

Watch this 2min clip of Fred Perry winning Wimbledon:


Just look at those serves. No, that's not the warm up, that's actual play in the final of a Grand Slam event. Fucking look at them!

The standards in every sport are progressing every generation. Messi, Ronaldo and the likes are light years ahead of Pele.
 

a_weir

Well-Known Member
This is exactly how I feel aswell.

Watch this 2min clip of Fred Perry winning Wimbledon:


Just look at those serves. No, that's not the warm up, that's actual play in the final of a Grand Slam event. Fucking look at them!

The standards in every sport are progressing every generation. Messi, Ronaldo and the likes are light years ahead of Pele.
Yep! And that footage is sped up.

People are confusing ‘greatest’ with ‘best’.
 

pelem

Well-Known Member
Brazilian football legend Pele has launched an astonishing attack on Barcelona star Lionel Messi by claiming he has just ‘one-skill’.

The three-time World Cup winner claimed he was the better player because he was a more complete performer than the Argentina forward.

Pele also added that Diego Maradona was a ‘much better’ player than the five-time Ballon D’Or winner as he addressed a wave of assessments of the current crop of the world’s best players

“How can you make a comparison between a guy who heads the ball well, shoots with the left, shoots with the right and another who only shoots with one leg, only has one skill and doesn’t head the ball well?” Pele told Folha de Sao Paulo when asked about Messi.

“How can you compare? To compare with Pele, it has to be someone who shoots well with the left, shoots well with the right, and scores headers.”

He also dismissed any claims that there are similarities between Messi and Maradona, who he believes is one of the greatest players of all time.

"As far as I’m concerned, Maradona was one of the best players ever. If you ask me, 'Was he better than Messi?' Yes, he was. Much better. [Franz] Beckenbauer, [Johan] Cruyff were also excellent players."


Pele disnae need tae claim....He is Simply the Best.

# Better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone we've ever met #.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Why? Standard of football was dire 60 years ago.

Being streets ahead for your time doesn’t make you streets ahead forever.
It was the egotism, the time machine, and the total disrespect of player's ability from the 60's and 70's. If you can't play international football today then you sure couldn't play it in the 60's and 70's either.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Whenever this thread comes up I try to imagine peak Federer blasting the ball past peak Fred Perry. These guys would look like aliens if they went back in time.
Not at all. You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline. Fred Perry coming up in modern era tennis with all its evolution, or Federer coming up as tennis was establishing itself. How would Roger cope working a full time job, using old wooden rackets, old time training methods, and wearing long trousers! It has to be ability v ability, rather than decade v decade.
 
Best, Pele and Beckenbauer my top three. Like somebody said earlier these guys played when the game was a contact sport. Best would run amok now.
 
I think all that Viagra has went to Pele's big head rather than his little one.

He obviously has a beef with Messi, but to downplay his skills, abilities and achievements is simply ludicrous and reeks of bitterness.

Messi, love him or loathe him, is quite rightly regarded as one of the greatest individuals ever to have taken to a football field. To try and diminish that is just moronic.
 

EKBB

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Messi is well protected by modern football rules and referees. If he had to contend with the hatchet-men and professional psychos Pele did he'd never have half the goals he's got.
On the other hand if you put Pele in to days modern game he would probably be blowing out his arse after not long such is the higher level of fitness.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
This is exactly how I feel aswell.

Watch this 2min clip of Fred Perry winning Wimbledon:


Just look at those serves. No, that's not the warm up, that's actual play in the final of a Grand Slam event. Fucking look at them!

The standards in every sport are progressing every generation. Messi, Ronaldo and the likes are light years ahead of Pele.
Nonsense comparison. Seriously where do we start?

Football is by far a different beast altogether than tennis. Pitches like bowling greens compared to cow fields then. Players like Messi tickled and it's a foul compared to right dirty bastard hatchet men when Pele and Maradona played.

Sitting in the comfort of a Barca team surrounded by Superstars for years is hardly a comparison to what Maradona did and how good he was.

Unless you are under 30 years old.
 
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Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
Old timers will always claim these old punters were the best. But just watch highlights from Pele’s era, the standard is a joke, it’s embarrassing to be perfectly honest.

And none of these guys had to perform in the modern age where a footballers every move is heavily scrutinised both on and off the pitch.

Far more pressure on players now days than when floppy cock and el junkie were plying their trade.
 

RFCest1872

Well-Known Member
If Zidane didn't headbutt %^*& outta Materazzi and finish career with another world cup he would be best ever.
But he did in my generation top 3:
Messi
Zidane
Ronaldinho
 
Pele talking pish again.

He played in a era of utter pish gks, Messi is playing in the best era for gks and def and how tough the game is.

Messi would have scored 10 times pele goals in that era.
 

BattlefieldBear

Well-Known Member
Not at all. You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline. Fred Perry coming up in modern era tennis with all its evolution, or Federer coming up as tennis was establishing itself. How would Roger cope working a full time job, using old wooden rackets, old time training methods, and wearing long trousers! It has to be ability v ability, rather than decade v decade.
In 19th century, the FA Cup was the absolute pinnacle of world football, the Champions League, Premier League and World Cup rolled into one. In the first decade of it's inception, Wanderers won the trophy an incredible 7 times. If it's all relative, shall we place some of those Wanderers players up there in 'the greatest ever' lists?

How would Pele have coped with the Old Etonian etiquette, having to balance military duties and also having to represent his county at first-class cricket alongside football commitments? Oh, and wearing long trousers!

How good would the Wanderers' players be having benefitted from the highly advanced 1950s Brazilian training methods, the much more desirable weather conditions in South America, and being able to work full-time on their football skills?

You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline.
 

a_weir

Well-Known Member
It was the egotism, the time machine, and the total disrespect of player's ability from the 60's and 70's. If you can't play international football today then you sure couldn't play it in the 60's and 70's either.
Nothing egotistical about it at all. I am shite at football.

However, in 1958, everyone else was shite as well. See for yourself:

 
Anyone who uses the number racked up by Messi and Ronaldo as proof that they are better players than Maradona or Pele etc. Doesn't understand football. If Pele etc. Played in the game with it's modern rules they'd have insane numbers but the rules were different. Defenders got away with murder. Rules changed to gear the game towards a more attacking style giving forwards all sorts of advantages. I know folk talk about boots, balls and fitness etc. Too but the main factor is the rule changes. You can try to argue otherwise but you'd be wrong and I don't care enough.
All of which may be true, and yet still none of them can match Pele’s goalscoring record. Ah but he didn’t play in Europe...why would he when the players that won 3 World Cups out of 4 in his era didn’t either.
 

Zandermac

Well-Known Member
I don't know how anyone on here who seen Pele play can slag him, he was one of the best. We had a true world-class player on our shores as well . George Best was asgood as any one around.
 
I tend to dismiss anyone's football knowledge if they don't agree that Maradona was the greatest.

That includes the blabbering Pele. Highlight reel full of dreadful misses and a career of goals v pub teams.
You do realise that those pub teams contributed ALL THE PLAYERS that won the World Cup in 58, 62, and 70? Not sure whether you are uneducated in football history. Thank goodness Pele had dreadful misses, can you imagine had he been any good he would have scored even more than a 1000 goals.
 

basiltherat

Well-Known Member
It's impossible to compare players across generations as the game is very different in terms of tactics, defensive awareness and fitness
The games Messi plays in are far more intense than those of the 59s and 60s
However those dismissing Pele as bitter, senile and floppy cock embarass themselves
I only really caught the tail end of his career with the 70 World Cup being the first time I saw him play on the telly. I was quite young and there really wasn't much football and certainly not much foreign football seen by a wee boy in a council scheme in darkest Ayrshire in those days
It was, and remains, the greatest festival of football I have ever seen and Pele was at the pinnacle of it.
The colour of the strips, the colour of the players (there were very few black players in the UK game at the time - let alone all the shades in between - and that was just Brazil), even the fact that this was coming live from Mexico (on a fairly dodgy signal which only added to the glamou) made this a serious life highlight
I would imagine it is difficult for anyone under 50 to even begin to understand the impact this could have
Pele changed perceptions. He rose above the game. He made everyone I knew support Brazil. He did things you never saw in the British game - he bent the ball, he lobbed the keeper from halfway, he dummies the keeper in the most outrageous fashion - he made all of us realise the game could be beautiful. Not alone of course but he was the biggest part of it.
He did it all whilst being fouled in a fashion unimaginable to the likes of Ronaldo. Apart from a very few notable incidents he did not retaliate.
He made me love football
For that reason he'll always be the best to me.
I am not senile or floppy cocked enough to realise that this is in large part due to the time I happened to be born
I would be hugely surprised if a football game or tournament ever made me feel that way again. I usually don't even bother watching very much of the World Cup these days
 
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