Pele claims he was a better player than ‘one skill’ Lionel Messi

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
What would you say if the guy said fellow ulster Scot George Best. Arguably the best player in the world on his day.

Just cause he didnt play for Brazil or Argentina on the world stage was not hi fault.

Still a world class player.
Of course he was and for me the best player ever produced in Europe.
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
Messi is the GOAT.

I’m still surprised there are people out there that try to argue it these days. Even in a “poor” season by his own incredibly high standards, he still outscored and out assisted everybody in European football (and most likely world football).

The guy should have 8 or 9 Ballon D’ors, it’s a travesty that he only has 5.
Unquestionably the best in the last 25 years.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Anyone who uses the number racked up by Messi and Ronaldo as proof that they are better players than Maradona or Pele etc. Doesn't understand football. If Pele etc. Played in the game with it's modern rules they'd have insane numbers but the rules were different. Defenders got away with murder. Rules changed to gear the game towards a more attacking style giving forwards all sorts of advantages. I know folk talk about boots, balls and fitness etc. Too but the main factor is the rule changes. You can try to argue otherwise but you'd be wrong and I don't care enough.
Ssshhhhhhh.

You can't tell the truth in here or talk sense :p.
 

Grimsdale

Well-Known Member
Senile old floppy cock.

Basically what he’s saying is he could score more with his head and left foot. Given messi’s ridiculous passing, and dribbling ability paired with his vision and penchant for outscoring practically everyone, I seriously doubt floppy cock was a better all rounder.
Pele scored over 1000 goals. Easy then though wasn't it.
 

one rangers one love

Well-Known Member
Messi would more likely protect nazis, the great Pele scored against them with broken/cracked ribs ffs, so no contest really.
That overhead kick against the Bosch, the Cruyff turn and Davie cooper every 2nd saturday was probably the biggest influences for me getting my arse oot the door and play fitbaw as a kid.
 

omegaman

Well-Known Member
Messi is the GOAT.

I’m still surprised there are people out there that try to argue it these days. Even in a “poor” season by his own incredibly high standards, he still outscored and out assisted everybody in European football (and most likely world football).

The guy should have 8 or 9 Ballon D’ors, it’s a travesty that he only has 5.
I think the perspective of time may see Messi at the top of the GOAT tree, but right now he’s still behind Maradona for me, and in all honesty, probably Pele too.

His inability to light up a World Cup in the manner either of those two did (you could add Cruyff into the mix on that front also) will always count against him, IMO.

To say he’s done it more consistently at club level doesn’t fully take into account the way club football has changed in the last twenty odd years.

The CL has engendered the rise of the super club, of which Barcelona are the very epitome - and in doing so has reduced competition to their preserve.

It’s been said before, but if the CL setup was around in the ‘80s we’d have seen a lot more of Maradona in Europe’s premier club event, but he was restricted by the old format and a league that was more competitive than La Liga is now.

Similarly Pele.

These greatest of all time arguments therefore always tend to favour more modern players due to the available TV footage of them in action: Pele - very little; Maradona - a good bit more; Messi - 24 hour saturation point.

And the latter is fresher in the memory, but I still think when he finally hangs up his boots, he’s going to have a lot of sleepless nights replaying that moment in the 2014 final when he had the chance to win it but stuck it just wide of the post.

Had it gone two or three inches the other way, I think the argument would be academic.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
There is always a contrary argument about Pele v Maradona.

Maradona inspired a not too great team to be world champions. That makes him best.
Pele played in the greatest world champion team ever, but every other player without hesitation said he was head and shoulders better than them.

Same debate will still be raging in 100 years!
 

Captain Cutlass

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I've always considered Pele to be the greatest player to ever grace a football pitch but I have to say that I'm a little disappointed in his comments.
I would have expected a player of his stature in the game to appreciate the skills of truly World Class players like Messi rather than attempt to pick holes in his game, they are after all in the same "club" of being one of arguably the top footballers of all time!
It's also quite amusing to hear some obviously young pups declare Pele as nothing more than a senile auld prick!...that's football treason!
:)
 

carlosapicella

Well-Known Member
I think the perspective of time may see Messi at the top of the GOAT tree, but right now he’s still behind Maradona for me, and in all honesty, probably Pele too.

His inability to light up a World Cup in the manner either of those two did (you could add Cruyff into the mix on that front also) will always count against him, IMO.

To say he’s done it more consistently at club level doesn’t fully take into account the way club football has changed in the last twenty odd years.

The CL has engendered the rise of the super club, of which Barcelona are the very epitome - and in doing so has reduced competition to their preserve.

It’s been said before, but if the CL setup was around in the ‘80s we’d have seen a lot more of Maradona in Europe’s premier club event, but he was restricted by the old format and a league that was more competitive than La Liga is now.

Similarly Pele.

These greatest of all time arguments therefore always tend to favour more modern players due to the available TV footage of them in action: Pele - very little; Maradona - a good bit more; Messi - 24 hour saturation point.

And the latter is fresher in the memory, but I still think when he finally hangs up his boots, he’s going to have a lot of sleepless nights replaying that moment in the 2014 final when he had the chance to win it but stuck it just wide of the post.

Had it gone two or three inches the other way, I think the argument would be academic.
Good post mate bet you still get pelters,don't think the young guys have seen half of peles clip,first one I can remember trying to chip the Uruguay goalie from the half way line 1970 and many more,just never showed anywhere now,pity!
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
I've always considered Pele to be the greatest player to ever grace a football pitch but I have to say that I'm a little disappointed in his comments.
I would have expected a player of his stature in the game to appreciate the skills of truly World Class players like Messi rather than attempt to pick holes in his game, they are after all in the same "club" of being one of arguably the top footballers of all time!
It's also quite amusing to hear some obviously young pups declare Pele as nothing more than a senile auld prick!...that's football treason!
:)
Probably a generation thing, but when I was growing up it seemed the whole football world accepted Pele was the greatest.

Not just the youngest ever to play in the world cup final. At 17, he then scored twice in it including one incredible bit of skill.

I remember the 1970 team, they were football perfection. And Pele was their general, the main man, and a total genius.
 

a_weir

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Yes, and defences weren't as organised in Maradona's time as they are now .
Nonsense.

They could KICK anything that moved back then for a start. Nowadays Messi is touched and it's foul while running on pitches like bowling greens compared to Maradona's or Pele's day.

That's just for starters. Add into it a Barcelona team full of superstars.
 

Captain Cutlass

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Probably a generation thing, but when I was growing up it seemed the whole football world accepted Pele was the greatest.

Not just the youngest ever to play in the world cup final. At 17, he then scored twice in it including one incredible bit of skill.

I remember the 1970 team, they were football perfection. And Pele was their general, the main man, and a total genius.
And that is exactly why I still consider him to be the finest football player to ever grace the game!
 

Bluerhap

Well-Known Member
That goal Carlos Alberto scores is simply brilliant, the pass by pele and smashed into the net , brilliant
Jaerzhino, Revilino, even Felix was a great keeper. Even though I was taken to Ibrox every fortnight since aged four watching that team when I was nine made me fall in love with football.
 

Kinbo

Well-Known Member
Be more afraid of the person who practices one move a hundred times than the one who practices a hundred moves one time
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
Nonsense.

They could KICK anything that moved back then for a start. Nowadays Messi is touched and it's foul while running on pitches like bowling greens compared to Maradona's or Pele's day.

That's just for starters. Add into it a Barcelona team full of superstars.
Look at the games Pele played in. The score lines were huge compared to nowadays. It was far more open and teams played with more up front than in defense. It is harder to score now.
 

JMCK

Well-Known Member
Pele is correct . He and maradona are miles ahead of the rest .

Messi would be 5th or 6th mind you so I think peles comments on him having one skill are frankly ridiculous .

For me it’s Pele, Maradona, Cryff , Michael Laudrup , Messi in that order .
I'm too young to know how good Pele or George Best were, but you didn't include Best in that? I remember some people saying Best was the best ever- looking at clips of Best in his prime he looks to have been very similar to Cryuff in some respects.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Pele is qualified to judge. I reckon he is better than Messi. But what did he make of big Hatch?
 

stuart01x

Well-Known Member
I tend to dismiss anyone's football knowledge if they don't agree that Maradona was the greatest.

That includes the blabbering Pele. Highlight reel full of dreadful misses and a career of goals v pub teams.
Nothing wrong wi that!!

I scored most of my goals against pub teams!!
 

stuart01x

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
Wow. Taxi!!!!!!
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Pele was a great player, but he never played in Europe, unfortunately as he has got older he has become a bit stupid,
Pele won one of his three world cups with Brazil in Sweden. In Pele's era there was little movement of players between countries. No big transfer fees either. Agents weren't invented yet, and clubs called the shots.
 

douzpwa

Well-Known Member
Most goals scored in a season by Maradona - 43
Messi has surpassed this 7 times in the past decade, Messi is the greatest
Tbf the past few decades of players did not have to avoid the kind of tackles opposing players were allowed to get away with back in the day albeit a few tackles against us in today's era in Scotland would not go amis back then but then this is bitter Scotland! Pele is the greatest of all time imo!
 

dt17

A mate of mine.....
Always worth reposting this when people say Maradona won things 'on his own' :rolleyes:

http://www.averageopposition.com/2012/03/the-myth-of-maradona.html

Alex Ferguson said it before that great players would've been great players in any era...I'd agree with that. But to say Messi can't be ahead of Pele or Maradona because he hasn't won a World Cup is ludicrous. He's won every other title imaginable (several times) and his consistency sets him apart from anyone else IMO.

The physical demands are much higher on players nowadays as well. They regularly play twice a week and over 60 games per season...can the same be said back in the Pele / Maradona eras? Fitness was nothing back then.

In every other sporting field, athlete's today would wipe the floor with athletes of the past...the same would be true with footballers.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
Coming next.... Ryan Christie is better than Jim Baxter o_O
 
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