Pele claims he was a better player than ‘one skill’ Lionel Messi

Jacrispy said:
Old timers will always claim these old punters were the best. But just watch highlights from Pele’s era, the standard is a joke, it’s embarrassing to be perfectly honest.

And none of these guys had to perform in the modern age where a footballers every move is heavily scrutinised both on and off the pitch.

Far more pressure on players now days than when floppy cock and el junkie were plying their trade.
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Usually your posts are passionate and intelligent, you let yourself down on this one.

Messi is genius as is Ronaldo, I love them both but they have had it easy. Everything about modern football is easier than 50 years ago. I would love to see how those two would have coped with the man’s game of the 1960’s, and the equipment they played with. What I am certain of is that any of the greats given the same pampered status of light boots & shirts, balls that swerve like a drunk, no contact, sports science, good diets, modern defending and teams built around the best players strengths, would have still been the best players today. Let’s see in 30 years if people are still talking about the way Ronaldo or Messi changed the game. I don’t think we will because they haven’t. I can’t think of one thing either of them does that didn’t exist before their career started. Cruyff, Beckenbauer & Pele actually did, and 40-60 years down the track players are still doing what they introduced.
 
Arkansasgerstill said:
Usually your posts are passionate and intelligent, you let yourself down on this one.

Messi is genius as is Ronaldo, I love them both but they have had it easy. Everything about modern football is easier than 50 years ago. I would love to see how those two would have coped with the man’s game of the 1960’s, and the equipment they played with. What I am certain of is that any of the greats given the same pampered status of light boots & shirts, balls that swerve like a drunk, no contact, sports science, good diets, modern defending and teams built around the best players strengths, would have still been the best players today. Let’s see in 30 years if people are still talking about the way Ronaldo or Messi changed the game. I don’t think we will because they haven’t. I can’t think of one thing either of them does that didn’t exist before their career started. Cruyff, Beckenbauer & Pele actually did, and 40-60 years down the track players are still doing what they introduced.
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They only reason they did is because it was 40-60 years ago. Players of Messi’s ilk are rare in the modern game where physicality players such a huge part, that’s why it’s amazing to see him to do what he does in the modern, he’s a throw back to years ago when there were more players reliant on technical abilities.

And by the way, the clumbersome traffic cone defenders you see the likes of Pele and Maradona beating would have the advantage of lighter boots, balls, sports science and all the rest of it too. Football isn’t a non contact sport either is it? And why is there always this suggestion that modern players couldn’t cope with hard tackles? Not only does hard tackling still exist in the game (albeit it’s more far more punishable) but the players of today are proper athletes, ripped up muscular athletes that from a physical stand point, put the likes of Pele and Maradona to shame, to suggest they couldn’t cope with the tackles lesser athletes coped with is frankly preposterous.

I get that old timers don’t want their generation being forgotten about (that’s why Pele says what he says, he’s a guy the new generation don’t give a %^*& about) but sometimes misty eyed nostalgia really does prevent people from looking at and thinking about these things logically. They look at things that benefit modern footballers but completely neglect the things that make it more difficult like the intense media scrutiny etc etc.

And by the way, a guy like Maradona wouldn’t last in the modern game, you need to be dedicated and in top physical condition to survive at the highest level in modern football, and the wee junkie certainly didn’t have that. Fine in the 80’s and 90’s, he’d never get away with it now.
 
BattlefieldBear said:
In 19th century, the FA Cup was the absolute pinnacle of world football, the Champions League, Premier League and World Cup rolled into one. In the first decade of it's inception, Wanderers won the trophy an incredible 7 times. If it's all relative, shall we place some of those Wanderers players up there in 'the greatest ever' lists?

How would Pele have coped with the Old Etonian etiquette, having to balance military duties and also having to represent his county at first-class cricket alongside football commitments? Oh, and wearing long trousers!

How good would the Wanderers' players be having benefitted from the highly advanced 1950s Brazilian training methods, the much more desirable weather conditions in South America, and being able to work full-time on their football skills?

You have to make it a level playing field. That means imagining both in the same timeline.
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It's what makes these questions interesting.
 
Jacrispy said:
They only reason they did is because it was 40-60 years ago. Players of Messi’s ilk are rare in the modern game where physicality players such a huge part, that’s why it’s amazing to see him to do what he does in the modern, he’s a throw back to years ago when there were more players reliant on technical abilities.

And by the way, the clumbersome traffic cone defenders you see the likes of Pele and Maradona beating would have the advantage of lighter boots, balls, sports science and all the rest of it too. Football isn’t a non contact sport either is it? And why is there always this suggestion that modern players couldn’t cope with hard tackles? Not only does hard tackling still exist in the game (albeit it’s more far more punishable) but the players of today are proper athletes, ripped up muscular athletes that from a physical stand point, put the likes of Pele and Maradona to shame, to suggest they couldn’t cope with the tackles lesser athletes coped with is frankly preposterous.

I get that old timers don’t want their generation being forgotten about (that’s why Pele says what he says, he’s a guy the new generation don’t give a %^*& about) but sometimes misty eyed nostalgia really does prevent people from looking at and thinking about these things logically. They look at things that benefit modern footballers but completely neglect the things that make it more difficult like the intense media scrutiny etc etc.

And by the way, a guy like Maradona wouldn’t last in the modern game, you need to be dedicated and in top physical condition to survive at the highest level in modern football, and the wee junkie certainly didn’t have that. Fine in the 80’s and 90’s, he’d never get away with it now.
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I think the only real comparison is how these players stood out in their respective eras - the rest of it is just ifs and buts.

Pele, Maradona and Messi are the three standout performers of their respective generations, players who seemed to be from another planet in terms of ability.

The argument that the game now is so much faster guys like Pele and Maradona wouldn’t be able to survive needs to be viewed in reverse too - how would Messi and Ronaldo fare in years gone by?

If we follow this line of thought we’re basically suggesting someone like Andy Halliday would be one of the best players in the world if you transported him 50 years back in time.
 
Jacrispy said:
They only reason they did is because it was 40-60 years ago. Players of Messi’s ilk are rare in the modern game where physicality players such a huge part, that’s why it’s amazing to see him to do what he does in the modern, he’s a throw back to years ago when there were more players reliant on technical abilities.

And by the way, the clumbersome traffic cone defenders you see the likes of Pele and Maradona beating would have the advantage of lighter boots, balls, sports science and all the rest of it too. Football isn’t a non contact sport either is it? And why is there always this suggestion that modern players couldn’t cope with hard tackles? Not only does hard tackling still exist in the game (albeit it’s more far more punishable) but the players of today are proper athletes, ripped up muscular athletes that from a physical stand point, put the likes of Pele and Maradona to shame, to suggest they couldn’t cope with the tackles lesser athletes coped with is frankly preposterous.

I get that old timers don’t want their generation being forgotten about (that’s why Pele says what he says, he’s a guy the new generation don’t give a %^*& about) but sometimes misty eyed nostalgia really does prevent people from looking at and thinking about these things logically. They look at things that benefit modern footballers but completely neglect the things that make it more difficult like the intense media scrutiny etc etc.

And by the way, a guy like Maradona wouldn’t last in the modern game, you need to be dedicated and in top physical condition to survive at the highest level in modern football, and the wee junkie certainly didn’t have that. Fine in the 80’s and 90’s, he’d never get away with it now.
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What a crock of shite.
 
Think Pele was a better player and I'd pick Ronaldo before Messi too .
Saying Messi is a one trick player is unkind ,he is a fantastic player who has always been surrounded by other brilliant players like Iniesta and Xavi.
However Maradonna is the best individual player I've seem .
 
Deek said:
Senile old lady's front bottom
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Think you have hit the nail on he head. Pele may well be the best player of all time but to rubbish Messi is incredulous.
At times Pele gives the impression he is a little concerned about retaining his own status as the greatest of all time in the beautiful game.
 
Very difficult to compare - suffice to say that Messi, Maradona and Pele were/are undisputedly the best players of their respective era.

I've always thought of Maradona as the greatest but I am probably biased in that he was the best when I was in my formative years. Messi is incredible, but how would he have coped with the pitches / disciplinary conditions of the late 70s / 80s? Possibly very well, but Maradona actually did it and came out of it as an icon of the sport for all time.
 
Probably the most stupid comment on this thread is by Pele himself saying Messi only has one skill.

He’s the best dribbler of a ball I’ve seen.
He can score goals including long range and dead ball free kicks
He is a great passer of the ball
His control is fantastic, the way he took the ball down for his goal in the World Cup was sublime
 
When Pele was about, not a lot of his games were televised live or even had highlights, whereas just about every game Messi plays is analysed and viewed by millions. I'm an old timer and remember Pele being a legend but, other than World Cups, can't remember seeing him play much.
Seen plenty of Messi and if I had to pick a 30 years old Messi or a 30 years old Pele for my team it would be Messi every day of the week.
 
Jaws II said:
I agree with him on Maradona.

Messi has done all his stuff mostly for one club who have top class players in all positions.
He has also done nothing at international level, unlike Pele or Maradona.
They are all ridiculously good but I think Maradona is the best footballer ever.
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I agree
 
a_weir said:
Some amount of madness in this thread.

Pelé was utterly streets ahead of everyone at the time. Notably, at the time.

In terms of footballing talent, I’d suggest Morelos is close to what Pelé was. Like, if you got a time machine and sent Morelos back or Pelé forward, there wouldn’t be a huge gulf in it.

Thus, Messi is the most technically gifted and best footballer to ever walk this earth. Undeniable.

I’d walk in to an international team from 1958 ffs. Just do a Cruyff turn and blow everyone’s minds.

The problem is is half of people just greatness on achievements and half of them judge it on ability.
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Quite possibly the most ridiculous post ever on FF!
 
Pele is the best I've ever seen.

He's right

Lights fuse. Slopes quietly off thread :D
 
Alex Venters said:
He played regularly against the greatest back four in the history of the game.

Defences in Serie A at that time were more organised that any you care to mention today.
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Ssshhhhhhh that's too truthful and butt hurt's some people :D
 
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omegaman said:
I think the only real comparison is how these players stood out in their respective eras - the rest of it is just ifs and buts.

Pele, Maradona and Messi are the three standout performers of their respective generations, players who seemed to be from another planet in terms of ability.

The argument that the game now is so much faster guys like Pele and Maradona wouldn’t be able to survive needs to be viewed in reverse too - how would Messi and Ronaldo fare in years gone by?

If we follow this line of thought we’re basically suggesting someone like Andy Halliday would be one of the best players in the world if you transported him 50 years back in time.
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You’re right but I’m not merely talking about taking modern players and facing them up against old timers as they were with old training methods etc.

My point about Maradona stands though, I know it’s sacrilege on here because everyone’s got their tongue up his arse, but he doesn’t/didn’t have the discipline or sense to be the best in the world in the modern game and he’s lucky his time was the 80’s.
 
Jacrispy said:
You’re right but I’m not merely talking about taking modern players and facing them up against old timers as they were with old training methods etc.

My point about Maradona stands though, I know it’s sacrilege on here because everyone’s got their tongue up his arse, but he doesn’t/didn’t have the discipline or sense to be the best in the world in the modern game and he’s lucky his time was the 80’s.
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You fail to point out Maradona regularly done it week in week out in the Best league in the world with the best, most organised, most brutal defenders on the planet along with playing on parks that wouldn't be out of place on a farm.

Add into it dragging his nation on his own practically to win the WC. Just for starters.

Messi is good but couldn't lace Maradona's boots.

Easy sitting in Catalonia playing in a team surrounded by Superstars in an era where the slightest touch is a foul on parks like bowling greens.

Sorry it doesn't fit the young agenda.
 
govwalker said:
You fail to point out Maradona regularly done it week in week out in the Best league in the world with the best, most organised, most brutal defenders on the planet along with playing on parks that wouldn't be out of place on a farm.

Add into it dragging his nation on his own practically to win the WC. Just for starters.

Messi is good but couldn't lace Maradona's boots.

Easy sitting in Catalonia playing in a team surrounded by Superstars in an era where the slightest touch is a foul on parks like bowling greens.

Sorry it doesn't fit the young agenda.
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I’ve already debunked all of that. Maradona did that in the 80’s, he couldn’t do it in the modern game. I dread to think how a character like him would cope with the intense scrutiny from fans and media alike too, he’d crack up.

Maybe if Maradona had the mentality to be more than a big fish in a small pond he could have surrounded himself with better players and won a fraction of what Messi’s won. Although he was playing with big money signings at Napoli, which is often overlooked in favour of the misty eyed nostalgic “won it all on his own” nonsense. I think we also need to remember that people’s access to Maradona’s games was severely restricted too where in the modern age you can watch every game and watch a detailed analysis of everything that happens. So most of what you misty eyed pensioners are going on is highlight reels and about 14 WC games.
 
Jacrispy said:
You’re right but I’m not merely talking about taking modern players and facing them up against old timers as they were with old training methods etc.

My point about Maradona stands though, I know it’s sacrilege on here because everyone’s got their tongue up his arse, but he doesn’t/didn’t have the discipline or sense to be the best in the world in the modern game and he’s lucky his time was the 80’s.
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You’re probably right, but then how would Messi, a timid little chap compared to his Argie idol, have fared against the hatchet men of La Liga and Serie A back in the ‘80s?
 
Jacrispy said:
I’ve already debunked all of that. Maradona did that in the 80’s, he couldn’t do it in the modern game. I dread to think how a character like him would cope with the intense scrutiny from fans and media alike too, he’d crack up.

Maybe if Maradona had the mentality to be more than a big fish in a small pond he could have surrounded himself with better players and won a fraction of what Messi’s won. Although he was playing with big money signings at Napoli, which is often overlooked in favour of the misty eyed nostalgic “won it all on his own” nonsense. I think we also need to remember that people’s access to Maradona’s games was severely restricted too where in the modern age you can watch every game and watch a detailed analysis of everything that happens. So most of what you misty eyed pensioners are going on is highlight reels and about 14 WC games.
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Utter drivel.

As for Messi then. He wouldn't survive two mins in Maradona's era.
 
govwalker said:
Utter drivel.

As for Messi then. He wouldn't survive two mins in Maradona's era.
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You must have no self awareness at all. I’ve reasoned by thoughts out, you have done nothing but retort with “utter drivel” before following it up with, somewhat ironically, utter drivel. Explain to me why Messi wouldn’t last in Maradona’s era.....

I can’t wait for this. I’ve already got a video ready, jam packed with assaults on Messi, for when you attempt to claim that attackers don’t receive any rough treatment in the modern game.

But instead of merely giving it “ehhh that’s drivel young one”, you need to start backing up your opinions with factual evidence or at least some logical reasoning. I’ve already presented you with a multitude of factors and some evidence to back up my points and you’ve merely swerved them all in favour of the “utter drivel” retorts.
 
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Folk on here saying “Messi couldn’t lace Pele or Diego’s boots”...I mean seriously? Have you been watching Messi the past 14 years?

To not think he is the greatest is fair enough, but to suggest he is no where near it is ridiculous.

Almost to a man the major figures in world football have openly said that Messi is the best. That’ll do for me :D
 
Xavi Hernandez said:
Folk on here saying “Messi couldn’t lace Pele or Diego’s boots”...I mean seriously? Have you been watching Messi the past 14 years?

To not think he is the greatest is fair enough, but to suggest he is no where near it is ridiculous.

Almost to a man the major figures in world football have openly said that Messi is the best. That’ll do for me :D
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They’ll tell us we’re taking shite and we can’t comment because we don’t have a grey pube, yet folks like Lineker and Souness who not only saw Maradona but performed on the same pitch as him, will tell you Messi is better :D

And that’s the same Gary Lineker that was on the pitch when Maradona scored his most famous goal (the one where yellow carded England players are scared to put a tackle in so Shilton ends up being just about the first one to make a serious attempt at getting the ball). Somewhat ironic given that was supposed to be the era of ruthless hard tackling :D
 
Bonnyloyal said:
Brazilian football legend Pele has launched an astonishing attack on Barcelona star Lionel Messi by claiming he has just ‘one-skill’.

The three-time World Cup winner claimed he was the better player because he was a more complete performer than the Argentina forward.

Pele also added that Diego Maradona was a ‘much better’ player than the five-time Ballon D’Or winner as he addressed a wave of assessments of the current crop of the world’s best players

“How can you make a comparison between a guy who heads the ball well, shoots with the left, shoots with the right and another who only shoots with one leg, only has one skill and doesn’t head the ball well?” Pele told Folha de Sao Paulo when asked about Messi.

“How can you compare? To compare with Pele, it has to be someone who shoots well with the left, shoots well with the right, and scores headers.”

He also dismissed any claims that there are similarities between Messi and Maradona, who he believes is one of the greatest players of all time.

"As far as I’m concerned, Maradona was one of the best players ever. If you ask me, 'Was he better than Messi?' Yes, he was. Much better. [Franz] Beckenbauer, [Johan] Cruyff were also excellent players."
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The man's not wrong,anyone who doubts this,watch the Boys From Brazil 1970 World Cup Final.
 
If only Messi played back in the 70s when the defenders dived in at every opportunity. Most of the defending is embarrassing.

People seem to equate aggressive/no nonsense tackling as difficult to play against. It's really not.
 
Jacrispy said:
You must have no self awareness at all. I’ve reasoned by thoughts out, you have done nothing but retort with “utter drivel” before following it up with, somewhat ironically, utter drivel. Explain to me why Messi wouldn’t last in Maradona’s era.....

I can’t wait for this. I’ve already got a video ready, jam packed with assaults on Messi, for when you attempt to claim that attackers don’t receive any rough treatment in the modern game.

But instead of merely giving it “ehhh that’s drivel young one”, you need to start backing up your opinions with factual evidence or at least some logical reasoning. I’ve already presented you with a multitude of factors and some evidence to back up my points and you’ve merely swerved them all in favour of the “utter drivel” retorts.
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The same token you said Maradona wouldn't last in today's game. That is utter claptrap. He'd more than likely excel even more so.
 
In terms of sheer footballing ability the top players today are light years ahead of players from 30/40 years ago. Pele would be utterly out his depth in a top match just now.

In terms of sheer talent then it's a different story. There's nothing to suggest Messi is more talented than Pele or vice versa. They both dominated their respective Eras. Messi has benefit from better training/fitness and everything that comes with being a modern footballer. Impossible to say how good Pele/Maradona would have been in today's game had they been born now but they'd have been up there of course.
 
Jacrispy said:
They’ll tell us we’re taking shite and we can’t comment because we don’t have a grey pube, yet folks like Lineker and Souness who not only saw Maradona but performed on the same pitch as him, will tell you Messi is better :D

And that’s the same Gary Lineker that was on the pitch when Maradona scored his most famous goal (the one where yellow carded England players are scared to put a tackle in so Shilton ends up being just about the first one to make a serious attempt at getting the ball). Somewhat ironic given that was supposed to be the era of ruthless hard tackling :D
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Its called being in a WC quarter final on a yellow card with the chance of possibly missing playing in a WC semi final which come around like an eclipse for some players.

It's not really hard to understand is it?

Obviously for you it is. It's the same shite all the time from you when this topic flags up.

It's boring now.
 
Jaws II said:
I agree with him on Maradona.

Messi has done all his stuff mostly for one club who have top class players in all positions.
He ahas also done nothing at international level, unlike Pele or Maradona.
They are all ridiculously good but I think Maradona is the best footballer ever.
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Messi is remarkable but he has done it at one club, with a team of outstanding players around him and the team has largely been built around making the most of Messi’s abilities.

Ronaldo has upped sticks and established himself at 3 of the Europe’s biggest, most demanding clubs and has some international achievement to speak of.

Pele and Maradona led their countries to international glory. Maradona led a middling team to win Serie A.

Messi is remarkable but at the end of it all, I think he may regret not testing himself more.
 
govwalker said:
Haha that's the best one yet. He'd be down like a tonne of bricks every time.

He's good but not even in the top 2.
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He'd go down...But he'd get back up since he knew he had to. It's laughable to think Messi (probably the most fouled player in history yet never complains and gets on with it) wouldn't adapt his game to survive back then.
 
WestrayGer said:
He'd go down...But he'd get back up since he knew he had to. It's laughable to think Messi (probably the most fouled player in history yet never complains and gets on with it) wouldn't adapt his game to survive back then.
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Oh dear where do we even begin with this??

There's a foul in Maradona's day ie a REAL hatchet man foul and tapping someone's leg today and them going down like a virgin on a hoor.
 
Messi is the greatest ever for me. Pele is obviously one of the greatest however not quite sure how much anyone on here could have genuinely seen of him considering he was on the tele for a few weeks every 4 years.
 
Pele and Maradona are up there with Messi.
The whole who was 'better' debate is puerile.
It is almost impossible to ascertain due to so many factors.

Pele and Maradona never played their club football alongside a world-class squad assembled from around the world at enormous costs, so straight away anyone dismissing their achievements in comparison to Messi have a flawed comparison.
I would loved to have seen either of the older players playing in Europe alongside a handpicked selection of the best talents from around the entire world.

That said, Messi has been a marvel and there is no doubting his deserved acclaim.

But to show how difficult and ridiculous these comparisons are, I am going to say that Neilly Gibson was better than all three of them.
 
Is the general consensus in Argentina not that Maradona is the GOAT? They rate him above Messi do they not?

Messi is always going to have the accusation leveled against him that he didn't leave his comfort blanket and Barca and his lack of success with the Argies.
 
RabSpackman said:
Messi is remarkable but he has done it at one club, with a team of outstanding players around him and the team has largely been built around making the most of Messi’s abilities.

Ronaldo has upped sticks and established himself at 3 of the Europe’s biggest, most demanding clubs and has some international achievement to speak of.

Pele and Maradona led their countries to international glory. Maradona led a middling team to win Serie A.

Messi is remarkable but at the end of it all, I think he may regret not testing himself more.
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Exactly.

Some could say Ronaldo is even better than Messi if you go by facts and figures. But we won't hurt the Messi Fan Boys.

Maradona is the man. Pele I'm not old enough to know.
 
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