Pele claims he was a better player than ‘one skill’ Lionel Messi

govwalker

Well-Known Member
A completely hypothetical and unjustified prediction, followed by “I rest my case”. No offence but your case is shite and has collapsed like a house of cards!

What makes you think a stronger, stockier, athlete like Messi wouldn’t be able to take as much punishment as someone like Caniggia?
Listen you're comparisons are utterly stupid and ignorant.

Training back then is absolutely nothing like it is today. Obviously players are going to be physically fitter and stronger.

It's called technology, sports science and evolution ffs.

It's got fck all to do with size etc.

End of the day Messi as good as he is, isn't in the same league as Maradona and Pele.
 

Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
lol house of cards, awrite Dave. You could at least be original.

Messi is a great player and there is no doubt about it. He has faced some hard dirty tackles in his time but he is protected by referees and like most modern footballers is happy to take the freekick rather than stay on his feet.

My personal opinion is I have seen better.

Would he be held in such high esteem if he didn't play for Barcelona? His only real competition for being considered the best of his generation is Ronaldo.

Just my opinion and I am entitled to it as you are entitled to yours.
You haven’t answered my question.

What makes you think the stronger, stockier Messi couldn’t take the same punishment as a comparatively scrawny and more slight Caniggia?
 

Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
Listen you're comparisons are utterly stupid and ignorant.

Training back then is absolutely nothing like it is today. Obviously players are going to be physically fitter and stronger.

It's called technology, sports science and evolution ffs.

It's got fck all to do with size etc.

End of the day Messi as good as he is, isn't in the same league as Maradona and Pele.
Mate I could write what’s you know about football on the back of a fucking stamp with a bingo pen. You keep chiming in but without any substance or real credible arguments. And you already admitted you’re not old enough to
have seen Pele so pipe down.

“Ignorant”, I think you’ve summed yourself up there, running around like a daft wee boy giving it “the older ones wur better just cause they wur men and the baws n boots wur heavier”. At least I can reason out what I’m saying, and I have done, and still you’ve come up with no credible comeback and nothing other than “you’re an idiot, you’re ignorant, Maradona and Pele were better because hard tackles n’at”
 

Nottsranger

New Member
Stats will say Messi or Ronaldo.. The older generations might say Pele. I've seen Maradona play but in my opinion Zidane.made football look easy, really easy
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Mate I could write what’s you know about football on the back of a fucking stamp with a bingo pen. You keep chiming in but without any substance or real credible arguments. And you already admitted you’re not old enough to
have seen Pele so pipe down.

“Ignorant”, I think you’ve summed yourself up there, running around like a daft wee boy giving it “the older ones wur better just cause they wur men and the baws n boots wur heavier”. At least I can reason out what I’m saying, and I have done, and still you’ve come up with no credible comeback and nothing other than “you’re an idiot, you’re ignorant, Maradona and Pele were better because hard tackles n’at”
Haha seriously you should take up comedy.

What I know about football? How far did you make it?

Did you ever play a serious level or you just counting FIFA on the x box as knowing something ffs.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
But surely given the improvements in sports science Tyson Fury would lick Ali every day of the week?
I'd actually say boxing is probably the only / one of the only sports where modern athletes wouldn't beat older ones. For example, back in the day boxers would fight 15 rounds. They'd fight a couple of times a month in some cases (instead of twice a year now) and they were literally fighting for their lives (if you go back far enough).

Ronaldo has upped sticks and established himself at 3 of the Europe’s biggest, most demanding clubs and has some international achievement to speak of.
In all fairness, I could play for Juve and they'd still scoosh the league...they've won 7 in a row so it's hardly a big challenge.


Messi would have went down after the first tackle. I rest my case.
This suggest that you've never actually watched Messi playing. He rarely goes down at tackles and is one of the most honest players about in terms of staying on his feet and playing on.
 

Renoranger

Well-Known Member
Folk on here saying “Messi couldn’t lace Pele or Diego’s boots”...I mean seriously? Have you been watching Messi the past 14 years?

To not think he is the greatest is fair enough, but to suggest he is no where near it is ridiculous.

Almost to a man the major figures in world football have openly said that Messi is the best. That’ll do for me :D
Messi is phenomenal and could play in any era. Same as the other greats including Pele, Puskas, Yashin, Beckenbauer, Best, Garrincha, Maradona & Cruyff to name a few. Growing up the name of Pele was mesmerizing especially with the sheer amount of goals he scored. Powerfully built, no shrinking violet and tougher than many think . An argument that will always end in stalemate.
 

RabSpackman

Well-Known Member
In all fairness, I could play for Juve and they'd still scoosh the league...they've won 7 in a row so it's hardly a big challenge.
He didn’t score in his first 2 games and the knives were out for him though. He has gone into highly pressurised clubs and had to prove himself all over again at Madrid and Juventus after having to be taken seriously as an 18yr old by the likes of Scholes, Keane, Neville, Giggs & Ferdinand.

He isn’t afraid of a challenge... by staying at a club where it is all set up around him, Messi looks less adventurous.
 

Kirbybear

Active Member
This Messi wankfest needs to end now!

Has Pele ever posed with a Celtic strip in his pomp?



Pele might be as bland as pot noodle Re controversy but that's what being a FIFA Ambassador is all about unlike that lady's front bottom Maradona but has he ever been involved with an organsation who refuses to recognize a foreign countries name and who's country invaded it by a fascistic regime?



Has Pele ever got the petted lip and cried "anti-football" at Rangers just cause he or his team mates couldnt score a goal against Rangers?




Naw didnt think so!

So %^*& Messi and %^*& Maradona



And their disrespectful Jesuit bishop of Rome!

Better not say exactly what I think of the bishop of rome and this rubbish.

When were the Falklands ever Argentinian I wonder.
 

Ross_

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Anyone see his 2 free kick goals and his ridiculous assist for Demeble tonight?
He’s been a sensation as usual tonight.

Those 2 free kicks were absolute worldies to my view (I know not everyone agrees) but he’s the greatest of all time.
 

Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
He didn’t score in his first 2 games and the knives were out for him though. He has gone into highly pressurised clubs and had to prove himself all over again at Madrid and Juventus after having to be taken seriously as an 18yr old by the likes of Scholes, Keane, Neville, Giggs & Ferdinand.

He isn’t afraid of a challenge... by staying at a club where it is all set up around him, Messi looks less adventurous.
Going to Juve, a club who romp the league every year with ease? Yeah that’s not really what I would call adventurous. He went from Man Utd to Real Madrid and Madrid to Juve, he wasn’t going to mediocre clubs.
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
He’s been a sensation as usual tonight.

Those 2 free kicks were absolute worldies to my view (I know not everyone agrees) but he’s the greatest of all time.
Apparently he’s now scored more free kicks than any CLUB (not player) in the top 5 leagues in the last 4 years (he now has 19, Juventus are closest with 18)...
 

BunkMoreland

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Going to Juve, a club who romp the league every year with ease? Yeah that’s not really what I would call adventurous. He went from Man Utd to Real Madrid and Madrid to Juve, he wasn’t going to mediocre clubs.
Wasting your time mate.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
He didn’t score in his first 2 games and the knives were out for him though. He has gone into highly pressurised clubs and had to prove himself all over again at Madrid and Juventus after having to be taken seriously as an 18yr old by the likes of Scholes, Keane, Neville, Giggs & Ferdinand.

He isn’t afraid of a challenge... by staying at a club where it is all set up around him, Messi looks less adventurous.
Do you realise how absurd and contradicting that post is?

Ronaldo had the luxury of learning his trade at Sporting Lisbon before joining Man Utd.

Messi made his debut for Barcelona and proceeded to knock guys like Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o etc out of the way. I'd say Barca and Real Madrid are the two biggest clubs in the world in terms of pressure to win so Messi's been doing it there since he was a teenager. Not to mention the fact he moved half way across the world at 12/13 to do so.

To suggest that playing at that level for your entire career is a comfort zone is just nonsense.
 

Bigbluebeard

Well-Known Member
He didn’t score in his first 2 games and the knives were out for him though. He has gone into highly pressurised clubs and had to prove himself all over again at Madrid and Juventus after having to be taken seriously as an 18yr old by the likes of Scholes, Keane, Neville, Giggs & Ferdinand.

He isn’t afraid of a challenge... by staying at a club where it is all set up around him, Messi looks less adventurous.
There's no doubt hes a fantastic player, but he's a Juve because Perez pissed him off, he's said so himself, nothing to do with a new challenge. Although again he's doing fantastic as he should.
 

Thommo2006

Well-Known Member
I love watching Messi and I dont think we will see a player like him again but could you imagine pele or matadonna in today's game with the sports science bowling green pitches etc
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
Messi showing how he can only do one thing again tonight...

Scored two free kicks, took on half the team for an assists and was passing it about like Xavi and Pirlo combined.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Comparisons between Messi and Maradona are futile. Maradona played in a era unrecognisable to the modern player. A wild, violent game then played by the hard bastard hatchet men defenders and opponents.

Maradona is the Most fouled player in W.C. history. 82, 86 & 90.

In one game alone against Italy in the 82 W.C he was fouled 30 plus times. A record even today. And a record for the whole tournament considering his nation was knocked out at the 2nd Round stage.

Another stat. Maradona was only the second player ever to score against every single one of his opposition teams in Serie A. The Best and hardest and toughest league in World Football at that time.

I could go on and on regarding facts about him but I won't. He along with Pele IS football and will still be remembered in 40 plus years time like he is today. Messi will be in the limelight until someone else comes along to take over the baton from him and CR7 etc from this era but they won't be remembered the way Maradona or Pele are.
 

Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
“Toughest, hardest, most violent, Hatchet, men, tackles”

Desperate trying to make it sound like UFC and yet a scrawny 5’4” midget survived it. Same old pish.
 
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gers1978

Well-Known Member
Comparisons between Messi and Maradona are futile. Maradona played in a era unrecognisable to the modern player. A wild, violent game then played by the hard bastard hatchet men defenders and opponents.

Maradona is the Most fouled player in W.C. history. 82, 86 & 90.

In one game alone against Italy in the 82 W.C he was fouled 30 plus times. A record even today. And a record for the whole tournament considering his nation was knocked out at the 2nd Round stage.

Another stat. Maradona was only the second player ever to score against every single one of his opposition teams in Serie A. The Best and hardest and toughest league in World Football at that time.

I could go on and on regarding facts about him but I won't. He along with Pele IS football and will still be remembered in 40 plus years time like he is today. Messi will be in the limelight until someone else comes along to take over the baton from him and CR7 etc from this era but they won't be remembered the way Maradona or Pele are.
That last paragraph especially is utter utter nonsense
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
“Toughest, hardest, most violent, Hatchet, men, tackles”

Desperate trying to make it sound like UFC and yet a scrawny 5’4” midget survived it. Same old pish.
It's a fact. The toughest, best defenders in the world played in Serie A at the same time as Maradona.
Messi is probably world's best player now. However, it's also a fact he'll never be remembered in the same way as Maradona, or Pele. These two are uniquely brilliant in a way Messi can't match.
I don't think it is possible for modern era football to produce a Pele or Maradona again. Talented kids are signed to clubs very young, and they are coached rigorously within a strict system. Individual brilliance, uniqueness, and freedom of expression will always be stifled to an extent in kids who play today. Pele learned tricks playing football with match boxes and oranges. Maradona trained his football mind playing football in the dark. Both played football every day on streets and waste grounds from morning to night. No kid with any ability has to start like that today. The very idea of not having a ball, not having quality facilities, not having highly trained coaches, not earning over 50k a year by sixteen, is unfathomable to today's best kids. Their ambition, hunger, ability and contribution on the pitch are developed in a different way. The lucky few who go onto become the world's best don't lack anything. Their skills, hard work, contribution to the team, it's all there, but without an element of unique individualism gained playing football against every kid on the scheme from morning to night time. Messi has done nothing I haven't seen Maradona do. Maradona has done things I haven't seen Messi do.
The greatest players the world has ever seen are Pele and Maradona. Maybe they will be surpassed in the future. However, the guys who are capable of doing it are not known yet.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
There's some truly mental posts on this thread haha :D

It's quite good fun actually.

It's what I imagine a debate in the 90s to have been like between a separate group of Westlife and Boyzone groupies.
 

Kent's agent

Well-Known Member
If taken on achievement at international level then Messi falls short and this is perhaps his one significant flaw . Pele won the lot and would have been a fantastic player in the modern game power poise ability and goals goals goals. Messi will also be remembered as a fantastic player playing in a side that suits him but Pele shades it for me
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
If taken on achievement at international level then Messi falls short and this is perhaps his one significant flaw . Pele won the lot and would have been a fantastic player in the modern game power poise ability and goals goals goals. Messi will also be remembered as a fantastic player playing in a side that suits him but Pele shades it for me
Why is it Messi has to achieve international success to be up there with Maradona and Pele but Maradona and Pele don't have to match Messi's club success to be considered up there with him?
 

Jacrispy

Well-Known Member
It's a fact. The toughest, best defenders in the world played in Serie A at the same time as Maradona.
Messi is probably world's best player now. However, it's also a fact he'll never be remembered in the same way as Maradona, or Pele. These two are uniquely brilliant in a way Messi can't match.
I don't think it is possible for modern era football to produce a Pele or Maradona again. Talented kids are signed to clubs very young, and they are coached rigorously within a strict system. Individual brilliance, uniqueness, and freedom of expression will always be stifled to an extent in kids who play today. Pele learned tricks playing football with match boxes and oranges. Maradona trained his football mind playing football in the dark. Both played football every day on streets and waste grounds from morning to night. No kid with any ability has to start like that today. The very idea of not having a ball, not having quality facilities, not having highly trained coaches, not earning over 50k a year by sixteen, is unfathomable to today's best kids. Their ambition, hunger, ability and contribution on the pitch are developed in a different way. The lucky few who go onto become the world's best don't lack anything. Their skills, hard work, contribution to the team, it's all there, but without an element of unique individualism gained playing football against every kid on the scheme from morning to night time. Messi has done nothing I haven't seen Maradona do. Maradona has done things I haven't seen Messi do.
The greatest players the world has ever seen are Pele and Maradona. Maybe they will be surpassed in the future. However, the guys who are capable of doing it are not known yet.
Misty eyed nostalgic nonsense mate. And I hate to tell you old timer, but in 15-20 years when that generation are gone, no one will remember them and Messi will very much be the one with the aura, the one who is remembered and hailed, as he actually is by a whole load of old football coaches and players from that era anyway, guys that not only saw him but got to play on the same pitch as Diego and didn’t just seem in a 4 or 5 games every couple of years like you folks, ie the Linekers, Wengers, Souness’s etc.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I know nostalgia plays a big part but when you look at video footage from Pele's time it's absolutely comical. I've seen better games at the juniors.

Not only that, but even later generations (ie. Cruyff doing his famous turn). That skill was revolutionary yet 3 and 4 year olds could do it with relative ease nowadays.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
Why is it Messi has to achieve international success to be up there with Maradona and Pele but Maradona and Pele don't have to match Messi's club success to be considered up there with him?
Because having a decent tournament once every four years is a much better way to measure success.

Apparently.
 

govwalker

Well-Known Member
Misty eyed nostalgic nonsense mate. And I hate to tell you old timer, but in 15-20 years when that generation are gone, no one will remember them and Messi will very much be the one with the aura, the one who is remembered and hailed, as he actually is by a whole load of old football coaches and players from that era anyway, guys that not only saw him but got to play on the same pitch as Diego and didn’t just seem in a 4 or 5 games every couple of years like you folks, ie the Linekers, Wengers, Souness’s etc.
You talk utter pish give up.
 
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