Playing style of Russell Martin

WeeDoddie10

WeeDoddie10

Active Member
It's been suggested that Russell Martin has an approach which involves playing out from the back. Personally, I cringe when I think about it, as it was tried under GVB and for me it just did not work, plus I am not a fan of that style. We did not, and still do not have the players to carry out those instructions. Think back to the re-arranged OF game in February 2021, when Celtic simply attacked our defenders at pace from the first whistle, giving them no time to control and pass the ball. We lost a goal in five minutes. Tavernier and Barisic like a deer in the headlights, constantly being caught in possession at the corner flags and losing the ball. Fartin' around in our penalty box and in the six yard box - what did you think was going to happen? It was excruciating to watch. By half-time we were 0-3 down, and while GVB stopped the rot by withdrawing Barisic and moving Bassey to left back, the damage had been done. It's a simple tactic to combat that style. Press the defenders whilst in possession and don't give them time to move forward - force them into mistakes. If this is the way we are going to play, it fills me with a deep sense of foreboding. If Russell Martin thinks teams are going to sit back and admire us playing out from the back, he will soon earn ire from the stands. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to give him a chance, but unless we have a defence full of the likes of Beckenbauer, Baresi or Maldini, I fear the worst. We do not have this quality of player and we are at the start of yet another rebuild. Time is not on our side. If you have an opinion on this, please pile on. I hope I can be proved wrong.
 
In life there are people who learn from their mistakes. do things differently, keep improving and are successful. Failures keep doing the same thing hoping for different results and continue to fail.
We must hope that Russell Martin has learned that to be pragmatic and that winning must never be sacrificed for principle.
Yes, we all want to watch Rangers play exciting football, but trying to play out from the back must be an option and not mandated.
Let's all wait and see, get behind Russell and hope the board give him the players to make a winning team.
Beating them was not the reason we lost league. it was defensive failures (goals conceded compared to opposition chances) and failure to score given dominant possession but a lack of chance creation that cost us.
 
WeeDoddie10 said:
It's been suggested that Russell Martin has an approach which involves playing out from the back. Personally, I cringe when I think about it, as it was tried under GVB and for me it just did not work, plus I am not a fan of that style. We did not, and still do not have the players to carry out those instructions. Think back to the re-arranged OF game in February 2021, when Celtic simply attacked our defenders at pace from the first whistle, giving them no time to control and pass the ball. We lost a goal in five minutes. Tavernier and Barisic like a deer in the headlights, constantly being caught in possession at the corner flags and losing the ball. Fartin' around in our penalty box and in the six yard box - what did you think was going to happen? It was excruciating to watch. By half-time we were 0-3 down, and while GVB stopped the rot by withdrawing Barisic and moving Bassey to left back, the damage had been done. It's a simple tactic to combat that style. Press the defenders whilst in possession and don't give them time to move forward - force them into mistakes. If this is the way we are going to play, it fills me with a deep sense of foreboding. If Russell Martin thinks teams are going to sit back and admire us playing out from the back, he will soon earn ire from the stands. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to give him a chance, but unless we have a defence full of the likes of Beckenbauer, Baresi or Maldini, I fear the worst. We do not have this quality of player and we are at the start of yet another rebuild. Time is not on our side. If you have an opinion on this, please pile on. I hope I can be proved wrong.
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Because Gio played out from the back doesn’t mean we are destined for the same thing with Martin.

We could get Pep, Slot or Flick and they would play out from the back and they would all do it in a different manner than what Gio and Martin will do it.

How about we wait and see who comes in and how it goes before we allow ptsd and other fears to fester before a balls even kicked.
 
Plenty of teams successfully play out from the back and through the press without players of the quality of Beckenbauer or Baresi. It takes quick, accurate passing, control and movement. Do we currently have the players to do that? I very much doubt it. Certainly not enough of them. However, I assume the style of play and players required would have been discussed at length during what was described as a rigorous recruitment process. I have no problem with it. It’s great to watch when it works. If it's not working, then lessons need to be very quickly learned. Hopefully Martin has taken that onboard from his time at Southampton. I'm going into the new season with a completely open mind and no preconceived ideas of what to expect, so I'm not going to be proved right or wrong on anything.
 
It's fine to play out from the back if you have the players to do it.

The biggest red flag for Warburton's second season was when Clint Hill later said, after his first game at Ibrox, that he'd never touched the ball so much in his life.

It's about signing the players that can do what the manager wants.

This is why your man at Manchester United is struggling so much. He's trying to play 3-4-3 and doesn't have the players to do it.
 
From everything I can gather from listening to RM's interviews - & looking at the few games I saw Southampton play in - I get the impression defence is an after thought or an unnecessary distraction to him
A bit odd seeing as he played in a defensive position

Playing out from the back can be a real gamble - even against fairly poor opponents IMO
- but even if it's done really well - I'm unconvinced of the advantages it brings - apart from maintaining possession- but it's what you do with the possession that matters

Quick attacking switch from defence, to midfield, to attack is often what matters most - & if you can short circuit the process - like midfield to attack - it seems more appropriate to me

I'll be interested to see how this turns out - hopefully it'll be a system our opponents won't be able to live with
 
Gameboy said:
Because Gio played out from the back doesn’t mean we are destined for the same thing with Martin.

We could get Pep, Slot or Flick and they would play out from the back and they would all do it in a different manner than what Gio and Martin will do it.

How about we wait and see who comes in and how it goes before we allow ptsd and other fears to fester before a balls even kicked.
Click to expand...

I must have missed the extreme playing out at the back under Gio.

We’d generally pass it about a bit before someone would hoof it up the park under pressure.
 
WeeDoddie10 said:
It's been suggested that Russell Martin has an approach which involves playing out from the back. Personally, I cringe when I think about it, as it was tried under GVB and for me it just did not work, plus I am not a fan of that style. We did not, and still do not have the players to carry out those instructions. Think back to the re-arranged OF game in February 2021, when Celtic simply attacked our defenders at pace from the first whistle, giving them no time to control and pass the ball. We lost a goal in five minutes. Tavernier and Barisic like a deer in the headlights, constantly being caught in possession at the corner flags and losing the ball. Fartin' around in our penalty box and in the six yard box - what did you think was going to happen? It was excruciating to watch. By half-time we were 0-3 down, and while GVB stopped the rot by withdrawing Barisic and moving Bassey to left back, the damage had been done. It's a simple tactic to combat that style. Press the defenders whilst in possession and don't give them time to move forward - force them into mistakes. If this is the way we are going to play, it fills me with a deep sense of foreboding. If Russell Martin thinks teams are going to sit back and admire us playing out from the back, he will soon earn ire from the stands. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to give him a chance, but unless we have a defence full of the likes of Beckenbauer, Baresi or Maldini, I fear the worst. We do not have this quality of player and we are at the start of yet another rebuild. Time is not on our side. If you have an opinion on this, please pile on. I hope I can be proved wrong.
Click to expand...
It just makes sense to play from the back from goal kicks etc. because it's better for ball retention and building patterns of play that we've practiced.

If teams want to press us high then that's fine, we will tire them out more as they try to match us man for man, and there'll be spaces as the match goes on.

It comes down to recruitment but this isn't an alien concept these days, so many young kids (maybe not in Scotland) are brought up to be comfortable in possession and finding the spare man.

We as a fan base really need to understand that it's a net positive to have control of a game for our practiced patterns and to fatigue our opinions who are chasing shadows all game.
 
Aribo17 said:
Nothing frustrates me more than a keeper lumping it up to a defender and giving possesion away. Keep the ball and play through the lines imo.
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We've had shagger and Butland who have both been brutal for it.

I can't wait to have a goalkeeper who can play the spare man, and just make sure we keep the ball.
 
Leo_Ger said:
I must have missed the extreme playing out at the back under Gio.

We’d generally pass it about a bit before someone would hoof it up the park under pressure.
Click to expand...

There wasn’t much as other managers would like but more than others but his playing from the back was different from others do it as well.

It was a few pass to draw a press and go through or over it. Martin will try and be more of a through and around it than what Gio did.
 
Gameboy said:
There wasn’t much as other managers would like but more than others but his playing from the back was different from others do it as well.

It was a few pass to draw a press and go through or over it. Martin will try and be more of a through and around it than what Gio did.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I’m being a bit reductionist but wasn’t a fan of his build structures and attacking shapes at all.

Think comparisons to Martin are quite flawed as even at MK Dons, their possession stats were huge and focus on finding the free man a lot more specifically evident throughout his career so far.

Ultimately as you’ve said, it’s comparing apples and oranges and much like any analysis of him on here so far ignores much nuance.
 
I just feel that we have employed managers who have a style of play and how they want things done (which is fine), but they are doing it with players who can't do it. At times, it's like square pegs in a round hole with a sledgehammer.

Shouldn't it be that a manager comes in with how he wants to do things, but as he doesn't have the players, he sets them up to play in a way where we get the best from them at the present moment? Over time, players come and go, and the team evolves into the team the manager wants. At the start of the season, all we had was Dessers, so the manager should be thinking up a way to play where it complements our 1 and only fit striker so we get the maximum from him. Same with Tav. If the manager wants Tav to bomb forward, he has to figure out a way of what to do when Tav is out of position.
 
KJ_Rozental said:
It just makes sense to play from the back from goal kicks etc. because it's better for ball retention and building patterns of play that we've practiced.

If teams want to press us high then that's fine, we will tire them out more as they try to match us man for man, and there'll be spaces as the match goes on.

It comes down to recruitment but this isn't an alien concept these days, so many young kids (maybe not in Scotland) are brought up to be comfortable in possession and finding the spare man.

We as a fan base really need to understand that it's a net positive to have control of a game for our practiced patterns and to fatigue our opinions who are chasing shadows all game.
Click to expand...
KJ - I get all that. It all comes down to the quality of player and trust in each other to play out.
 
Gameboy said:
Because Gio played out from the back doesn’t mean we are destined for the same thing with Martin.

We could get Pep, Slot or Flick and they would play out from the back and they would all do it in a different manner than what Gio and Martin will do it.

How about we wait and see who comes in and how it goes before we allow ptsd and other fears to fester before a balls even kicked.
Click to expand...
Sure. Let's see what transpires. As I mentioned, I am open to being proven wrong.
 
WeeDoddie10 said:
It's been suggested that Russell Martin has an approach which involves playing out from the back. Personally, I cringe when I think about it, as it was tried under GVB and for me it just did not work, plus I am not a fan of that style. We did not, and still do not have the players to carry out those instructions. Think back to the re-arranged OF game in February 2021, when Celtic simply attacked our defenders at pace from the first whistle, giving them no time to control and pass the ball. We lost a goal in five minutes. Tavernier and Barisic like a deer in the headlights, constantly being caught in possession at the corner flags and losing the ball. Fartin' around in our penalty box and in the six yard box - what did you think was going to happen? It was excruciating to watch. By half-time we were 0-3 down, and while GVB stopped the rot by withdrawing Barisic and moving Bassey to left back, the damage had been done. It's a simple tactic to combat that style. Press the defenders whilst in possession and don't give them time to move forward - force them into mistakes. If this is the way we are going to play, it fills me with a deep sense of foreboding. If Russell Martin thinks teams are going to sit back and admire us playing out from the back, he will soon earn ire from the stands. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to give him a chance, but unless we have a defence full of the likes of Beckenbauer, Baresi or Maldini, I fear the worst. We do not have this quality of player and we are at the start of yet another rebuild. Time is not on our side. If you have an opinion on this, please pile on. I hope I can be proved wrong.
Click to expand...
One of the fourteen players who played for us that night are still in the squad.... ONE. I really think you're over thinking. We've refreshed the squad twice since then and are about to do it again on a significant scale and build a new squad that will suit what this manager wants.
 
WeeDoddie10 said:
It's been suggested that Russell Martin has an approach which involves playing out from the back. Personally, I cringe when I think about it, as it was tried under GVB and for me it just did not work, plus I am not a fan of that style. We did not, and still do not have the players to carry out those instructions. Think back to the re-arranged OF game in February 2021, when Celtic simply attacked our defenders at pace from the first whistle, giving them no time to control and pass the ball. We lost a goal in five minutes. Tavernier and Barisic like a deer in the headlights, constantly being caught in possession at the corner flags and losing the ball. Fartin' around in our penalty box and in the six yard box - what did you think was going to happen? It was excruciating to watch. By half-time we were 0-3 down, and while GVB stopped the rot by withdrawing Barisic and moving Bassey to left back, the damage had been done. It's a simple tactic to combat that style. Press the defenders whilst in possession and don't give them time to move forward - force them into mistakes. If this is the way we are going to play, it fills me with a deep sense of foreboding. If Russell Martin thinks teams are going to sit back and admire us playing out from the back, he will soon earn ire from the stands. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to give him a chance, but unless we have a defence full of the likes of Beckenbauer, Baresi or Maldini, I fear the worst. We do not have this quality of player and we are at the start of yet another rebuild. Time is not on our side. If you have an opinion on this, please pile on. I hope I can be proved wrong.
Click to expand...
Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

FFS!
 
When it comes to playing it out from the back, it’s absolutely something we should strive for. Look at our goals at Benfica away and home to Galatasaray to see the impact it can have.
 
gersandproud said:
From everything I can gather from listening to RM's interviews - & looking at the few games I saw Southampton play in - I get the impression defence is an after thought or an unnecessary distraction to him
A bit odd seeing as he played in a defensive position

Playing out from the back can be a real gamble - even against fairly poor opponents IMO
- but even if it's done really well - I'm unconvinced of the advantages it brings - apart from maintaining possession- but it's what you do with the possession that matters

Quick attacking switch from defence, to midfield, to attack is often what matters most - & if you can short circuit the process - like midfield to attack - it seems more appropriate to me

I'll be interested to see how this turns out - hopefully it'll be a system our opponents won't be able to live with
Click to expand...
This is what worries me, I watched a podcast with a Swans podder and he said RM couldnt set up his defense
 
Mr tangerineman said:
I can't believe posters on here think they know the game better and can coach better than Pep, Slot, and Amorim......Jesus wept.
You do realise other people can read the pish you post
Click to expand...

You cant believe a lot of things can you








Interesting that you seem to have a better knowledge of how football works than managers, oh and better than our new owners for selecting ex Everton staff

"A canny believe it"
 
Aspley1 Ger said:
In life there are people who learn from their mistakes. do things differently, keep improving and are successful. Failures keep doing the same thing hoping for different results and continue to fail.
We must hope that Russell Martin has learned that to be pragmatic and that winning must never be sacrificed for principle.
Yes, we all want to watch Rangers play exciting football, but trying to play out from the back must be an option and not mandated.
Let's all wait and see, get behind Russell and hope the board give him the players to make a winning team.
Beating them was not the reason we lost league. it was defensive failures (goals conceded compared to opposition chances) and failure to score given dominant possession but a lack of chance creation that cost us.
Click to expand...
Gio’s style and Russel Martin’s are nothing a like, can we please get away from this idea that all possession based football is the same.
 
If we up the quality of the players being brought in, we may, but this shower aren’t up to it. Tav was excellent under Warburton, but sadly time is taking its toll and he can’t get up and down the pitch to the same degree. I will wait to see who we bring in, and remember this is a new regime, they will have a set criteria and target those that suit it.
 
Wilso54 said:
I just feel that we have employed managers who have a style of play and how they want things done (which is fine), but they are doing it with players who can't do it. At times, it's like square pegs in a round hole with a sledgehammer.

Shouldn't it be that a manager comes in with how he wants to do things, but as he doesn't have the players, he sets them up to play in a way where we get the best from them at the present moment? Over time, players come and go, and the team evolves into the team the manager wants. At the start of the season, all we had was Dessers, so the manager should be thinking up a way to play where it complements our 1 and only fit striker so we get the maximum from him. Same with Tav. If the manager wants Tav to bomb forward, he has to figure out a way of what to do when Tav is out of position.
Click to expand...

Martin has already covered that by saying long term the team will play his way until then it’s down to him, his staff and the team to figure out how to win while transferring to his style and his type of players.

With Tav, Gerrard had that sorted until he shoehorned Lundstram into the midfield. You have a CB who was Goldson and a CM/CDM that was Jack that will work together and protect the shape. After watching, listening and reading a lot of his stuff online, he will must likely ask Tav to tuck in to make a three and have Jefte as the attacking wingback, if he is comfortable with Tav going forward and getting back then he will go with a midfielder dropping to make a back three. He’s got quite a few ways of dealing with the problems he has here.
 
His biggest problem by the sounds of previous managers is if he sticks with the core group of players, will they actually do a single thing he asks? Will his style even make it to the field?
 
Aarchie said:
I've read this 4 times and I still don't understand it :oops:
Click to expand...

There wasn’t much playing out from the back under Gio compare to other managers and different managers have different opinions when it comes to how you play out from the back.

Some would say Gio was little in terms of doing it others would say it more than their opinion.

In short playing out from the back isn’t a one size fits all mantra. People have somehow got in their head that a term means one thing and that’s it when it isn’t.
 
I’d far rather we try and play out from the back. We’ve got players who are technically better than all our opponents domestically. Lumping long balls forward plays into the hands of the hammer throwers.

To succeed at it though we need to play with a good tempo and players who will be brave on the ball and looking to go forward rather than playing safe. If we do get it right, we’ll run rings round everyone in the league
 
Outside of when we play the bheasts, our defenders are not going to be pressurised when they have the ball. Motherwell aren't coming to meet us on our own 18 yeard line.
 
this is going to be all the chat for months I think, cos it will take a while to perfect, so in the first few weeks and months we probably will concede a few daft goals from playing out from the back. and people will get angry about it, definitely.

this is why he wants Coady and presumably other ball-playing defenders, because it limits those daft goals, and helps us keep possession at all times (so reducing the amount of defending we need to do overall).

fact is pretty much every top team now wants to dominate possession, and that means not booting it long unless you face intense pressing danger
 
If he gets it working it will be great, but how patient will we be? If we drop points 3 or 4 times early on it could become toxic again.

Hate to compare to the mhanks but would we put up with the start flange had there a few years ago?
 
Martin likes to set up with a 4-1-2-2-1 however isn’t frightened to go with a 3-2-4-1 but sometimes will switch to a 2-3-4-1 if chasing the game or has been known to go to a 5-4-1 if defending a lead but can often set up as a 3-5-2 or standard 4-3-3. Occasionally when chasing a goal he has went 0-5-5 or even 0-0-10

Actually, I have no idea.
 
As Clockwork Orange pointed out, it all depends upon the calibre of players we bring in. I’m not convinced that the level we can afford will bring sufficiently cultured players capable of comfortably playing that style out from the back.
 
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