Police arresting St Johnstone fans this morning

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47blue said:
Highest taxes in the UK to fund bullies arresting kids.
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You know what I was literally having a moan about Tax today, not about funding police but the amount we pay all the same.

Done some overtime this week and have ended up paying £250 Tax and NI, what is the fukim point!! We get absolutely hammered.
 
SSR said:
Agree serious change that usually carries a prison sentence.
I'd get him a decent lawyer pronto.
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Agreed mate. I didn't post it to make a drama, it's a serious offence and to be honest I was surprised that was the charge.
 
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Gold_son said:
Lawyer up, and assuming what he's telling you is accurate, he should be fine.
A complete waste of time and taxpayers money. Pathetic from the police, or whoever is driving this agenda.
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Someone is cashing in on all of these shenanigans.
 
T9 Row said:
21 and at Uni
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That's where it's all wrong. I'll admit we were well overdue when we got charged, as we were no Angel's.

People were hurt that night, but unless they've really lowered the bar on what they deem serious disorder, this seems way over the top. It was a celebration ffs.

As I say mate, advise them to get a lawyer and i mean today, all of them who have been charged.
 
T9 Row said:
Congregated outside the ground celebrating the Cup victory. From the videos l saw at the time online there were some flares but he said he didn’t have or touch any, seems its the pyro that was an issue.

l have no doubt he would have had a few beers and there would be some exuberance but he certainly wouldnt be rioting or trying to attack police if that’s what they’re insinuating with the charges.
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Can you confirm it was after Scottish cup final? A mate, saints fan, thinks it must be for league Cup final. He said there was a cop and steward "hurt" when they went through the shark barriers.
 
HoboUK said:
Arrested for what?

Nvm - saw the update.

The lads committed am offence though, I'm sure he knew he wasn't meant to be part of large scale gatherings when he went. It's not up to the police to decide what crimes they progress and which they don't if there's been a complaint.

Folk need to start taking a bit of personal responsibility for their own decisions.



He's been lifted for a common law offence, one that's an extension of an even older common law offence.

Laws that predate the SNP.

There's no beat level pressure to target certain sets of society based on team or religious affiliation, it's simply not happening.

Do folk like you even think about your conspiracy theories ? Do you think the thousands of protestants or Rangers supporters within the justice system, from Police to Fiscals to JP's and Sheriff's, all are just complicit in a SNP led campaign to demonise them ?

That the only people that can see this blatant attack on us are the folk that (incidentally) are the ones getting lifted/charged for committing an offence ?

I've no problem with folk exercising their free will, but if you go and do something knowing that is an offence, just take your licks if you get caught.
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Celebrating a football team winning a cup or league isn't an offence. I can see your point if all teams fans are prosecuted but that over the years under the SNP hasn't been the case.
 
Gold_son said:
Was anyone injured, or was any damage done to property at the STJ celebrations?
None that I heard of, so why the f*** are the police wasting their time targeting young guys that are really doing no harm to anyone, celebrating a once in a lifetime achievement for their team.
You obviously work in law enforcement. If you cannot see the injustice here, an example of police actions that will likely turn a few more families against the police for their lifetimes, I'd suggest you may be part of the problem. It's overreach and someone should have to explain the selective policing strategies of the justice system at play in Scotland today.
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So you'd be supportive of the police choosing which laws to enforce and when ?

I assume the folk going there knew they were opening themselves up to a bit of bother. Is there to be no personal responsibility from folk ?

The courts can decide if it's in the public interest to prosecute, cops can't turn round and say "nah I'm not dealing with that" if there's been a report made and there's clearly offences been committed.

Seems to be a common misconception here that it's up to the Police to decide if something is worth pursuing, it's not, if a crime is reported then there is no question it needs to be progressed.

It's up to the fiscal to decide if seeking a prosecution is in the public interest.

rabbie73 said:
Celebrating a football team winning a cup or league isn't an offence. I can see your point if all teams fans are prosecuted but that over the years under the SNP hasn't been the case.
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Mass gatherings during a pandemic and throwing pyro about the streets are though.

And again, if as you suggest, the government are putting pressure on who to prosecute or not based on football team affiliation, it's not being directed at beat level cops who are actually dealing with the enquiries.
 
HoboUK said:
Arrested for what?

Nvm - saw the update.

The lads committed am offence though, I'm sure he knew he wasn't meant to be part of large scale gatherings when he went. It's not up to the police to decide what crimes they progress and which they don't if there's been a complaint.

Folk need to start taking a bit of personal responsibility for their own decisions.



He's been lifted for a common law offence, one that's an extension of an even older common law offence.

Laws that predate the SNP.

There's no beat level pressure to target certain sets of society based on team or religious affiliation, it's simply not happening.

Do folk like you even think about your conspiracy theories ? Do you think the thousands of protestants or Rangers supporters within the justice system, from Police to Fiscals to JP's and Sheriff's, all are just complicit in a SNP led campaign to demonise them ?

That the only people that can see this blatant attack on us are the folk that (incidentally) are the ones getting lifted/charged for committing an offence ?

I've no problem with folk exercising their free will, but if you go and do something knowing that is an offence, just take your licks if you get caught.
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There's always a jack mccoy
 
HoboUK said:
Arrested for what?

Nvm - saw the update.

The lads committed am offence though, I'm sure he knew he wasn't meant to be part of large scale gatherings when he went. It's not up to the police to decide what crimes they progress and which they don't if there's been a complaint.

Folk need to start taking a bit of personal responsibility for their own decisions.



He's been lifted for a common law offence, one that's an extension of an even older common law offence.

Laws that predate the SNP.

There's no beat level pressure to target certain sets of society based on team or religious affiliation, it's simply not happening.

Do folk like you even think about your conspiracy theories ? Do you think the thousands of protestants or Rangers supporters within the justice system, from Police to Fiscals to JP's and Sheriff's, all are just complicit in a SNP led campaign to demonise them ?

That the only people that can see this blatant attack on us are the folk that (incidentally) are the ones getting lifted/charged for committing an offence ?

I've no problem with folk exercising their free will, but if you go and do something knowing that is an offence, just take your licks if you get caught.
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All well and good but it’s a political arrest, nothing more and nothing less

What about the BLM protests, the Palestine protest or the Govanhill protest? For the record, I support everyone’s right to attend these but you can’t have 1 rule for football fans and another for other things

What was the crime? Did he fight with police? Was he merely congregating and celebrating with other fans? Need a bit more context but on the face of it, it’s pointing to a 2-tier police approach
 
Was there not a F.O.I request for amount of arrests at the jolly craicsters shark show by a member here?
I'm sure it came back as none!!!
Maybe my memory is wrong.
 
HoboUK said:
Arrested for what?

Nvm - saw the update.

The lads committed am offence though, I'm sure he knew he wasn't meant to be part of large scale gatherings when he went. It's not up to the police to decide what crimes they progress and which they don't if there's been a complaint.

Folk need to start taking a bit of personal responsibility for their own decisions.



He's been lifted for a common law offence, one that's an extension of an even older common law offence.

Laws that predate the SNP.

There's no beat level pressure to target certain sets of society based on team or religious affiliation, it's simply not happening.

Do folk like you even think about your conspiracy theories ? Do you think the thousands of protestants or Rangers supporters within the justice system, from Police to Fiscals to JP's and Sheriff's, all are just complicit in a SNP led campaign to demonise them ?

That the only people that can see this blatant attack on us are the folk that (incidentally) are the ones getting lifted/charged for committing an offence ?

I've no problem with folk exercising their free will, but if you go and do something knowing that is an offence, just take your licks if you get caught.
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So you would charge eveyone that was at Ibrox and George Sq? Would you also charge all those at Kenmure Street and George Sq for the Palestinian gathering?
Can I ask if you have 100% stuck to the cocid restrictions and havent broken or bent them once?
 
Gibraltar Loyal said:
So you would charge eveyone that was at Ibrox and George Sq? Would you also charge all those at Kenmure Street and George Sq for the Palestinian gathering?
Can I ask if you have 100% stuck to the cocid restrictions and havent broken or bent them once?
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For simple attendance, no, it's obviously not in the public interest to do so and is completely unworkable, however if offences are committed while in attendance, then they should be death with.

The OP provided information suggest they think he's been throwing pyro about (which is an offence on it's own) and given they aren't arresting everyone who attended, suggests there may be more to the story.

As to the 2nd part, absolutely none of your business and is not relevant to the conversation, but if I had and it resulted in Police involvement, I wouldn't be thinking I'd been target for my football team or religious affiliation, I'd probably think it was because I'd broken the restrictions.

Aww Skew said:
All well and good but it’s a political arrest, nothing more and nothing less

What about the BLM protests, the Palestine protest or the Govanhill protest? For the record, I support everyone’s right to attend these but you can’t have 1 rule for football fans and another for other things

What was the crime? Did he fight with police? Was he merely congregating and celebrating with other fans? Need a bit more context but on the face of it, it’s pointing to a 2-tier police approach
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Again,

Do you think the 10's of thousands of Protestant/Rangers fans/ Labour or Tory voting folk within the criminal justice system in Scotland are complicit with a national conspiracy to target folk of certain cultural backgrounds ? And in doing so have decided that the best way to enforce this is by targeting a young St Johnstone fan with an minor offence ?
 
WilkinsBullet said:
Yes as St Johnstone fans are notorious for rioting amongst themselves outside McDiarmid Park everytime they win cup doubles. Come on.... innocent until proven guilty.
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I’ve no idea if they did or didn’t. I guess we will see. My point was more that the police don’t tend to kick doors in for minor charges. But yes absolutely innocent till proven guilty.
 
HoboUK said:
For simple attendance, no, it's obviously not in the public interest to do so and is completely unworkable, however if offences are committed while in attendance, then they should be death with.

The OP provided information suggest they think he's been throwing pyro about (which is an offence on it's own) and given they aren't arresting everyone who attended, suggests there may be more to the story.

As to the 2nd part, absolutely none of your business and is not relevant to the conversation, but if I had and it resulted in Police involvement, I wouldn't be thinking I'd been target for my football team or religious affiliation, I'd probably think it was because I'd broken the restrictions.
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Pyro has been used at BLM gatherings and other protests, as far as I’m aware no doors have been put in to arrest those who used them

Why are football fans treated differently? If pyros an issue, hundreds of rangers fans will be due a visit from the police for Ibrox, March to George square, George square
 
Would love to hear bears that are either in PS or have friends in PS opinion on getting the piss ripped out them by corrupt bosses.
 
HoboUK said:
For simple attendance, no, it's obviously not in the public interest to do so and is completely unworkable, however if offences are committed while in attendance, then they should be death with.

The OP provided information suggest they think he's been throwing pyro about (which is an offence on it's own) and given they aren't arresting everyone who attended, suggests there may be more to the story.

As to the 2nd part, absolutely none of your business and is not relevant to the conversation, but if I had and it resulted in Police involvement, I wouldn't be thinking I'd been target for my football team or religious affiliation, I'd probably think it was because I'd broken the restrictions.
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I have no idea of the numbers that were arrested but I understand them to be significant and certainly not him in isolation.

As he has been charged probably best l dont add anything more to a public forum.
 
HoboUK said:
So you'd be supportive of the police choosing which laws to enforce and when ?

I assume the folk going there knew they were opening themselves up to a bit of bother. Is there to be no personal responsibility from folk ?

The courts can decide if it's in the public interest to prosecute, cops can't turn round and say "nah I'm not dealing with that" if there's been a report made and there's clearly offences been committed.

Seems to be a common misconception here that it's up to the Police to decide if something is worth pursuing, it's not, if a crime is reported then there is no question it needs to be progressed.

It's up to the fiscal to decide if seeking a prosecution is in the public interest.



Mass gatherings during a pandemic and throwing pyro about the streets are though.

And again, if as you suggest, the government are putting pressure on who to prosecute or not based on football team affiliation, it's not being directed at beat level cops who are actually dealing with the enquiries.
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Who's reporting a crime based on a few hundred STJ fans celebrating their once in a lifetime achievement? and who's making the decision to investigate these harmless celebrations, let alone arrest people and attempt to prosecute them in this manner.
This is the type of ridiculous behaviour from the justice dept and law enforcement that turns law abiding citizens against the power wielding bullies that sign up to serve and protect the public, who pay their wages.
Scotland appears to be failing at every level of public service.
 
T9 Row said:
I have no idea of the numbers that were arrested but I understand them to be significant and certainly not him in isolation.

As he has been charged probably best l dont add anything more to a public forum.
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Yeah, for sure.

I'm not even arguing that your boy deserves to be lifted, only arguing against this suggestion that it's being done at the command of the SNP. Cops only deal with whatever comes across their desks, if members of the public have made complaints about the gathering then the beat cops can't just dismiss it.

The courts will decide whether or not it's in the public interest to prosecute.

Gold_son said:
Who's reporting a crime based on a few hundred STJ fans celebrating their once in a lifetime achievement? and who's making the decision to investigate these harmless celebrations, let alone arrest people and attempt to prosecute them in this manner.
This is the type of ridiculous behaviour from the justice dept and law enforcement that turns law abiding citizens against the power wielding bullies that sign up to serve and protect the public, who pay their wages.
Scotland appears to be failing at every level of public service.
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The same type of folk that have spent the last year trying to get their neighbours fined for having 1 too many people in their gardens, I think you seriously underestimate the pettiness of the general public.
 
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HoboUK said:
Yeah, for sure.

I'm not even arguing that your boy deserves to be lifted, only arguing against this suggestion that it's being done at the command of the SNP. Cops only deal with whatever comes across their desks, if members of the public have made complaints about the gathering then the beat cops can't just dismiss it.

The courts will decide whether or not it's in the public interest to prosecute
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Al put cash on there been complaints against the pollockshields mob and the scum fans in December.
Not a peep from police squad.
 
Now if petrol bombs were thrown, I might say, mobbing and rioting, but a bit of fun and smoke is no broad water farm.

I dont know the in and outs, but a 21 year old student celebrating st johnstone winning the cup, seems utterly ridiculous.

We had 2 deaths in town last week from bad valium, but hey let's go after these guys. Priorities and that
 
Perth votes conservative. Arrest them.
Pollokshields demonstrators votes SNP. Encourage them.
Rangers fans are unionists. Demonise them.
Tartan army are nationalists. Praise them.
East end of Glasgow around sharkheid votes SNP. Tolerate them.

You really don't have to be a political genius to spot the trends of propaganda in Scotland under this government
 
Kingging said:
Perth votes conservative. Arrest them.
Pollokshields demonstrators votes SNP. Encourage them.
Rangers fans are unionists. Demonise them.
Tartan army are nationalists. Praise them.
East end of Glasgow around sharkheid votes SNP. Tolerate them.

You really don't have to be a political genius to spot the trends of propaganda in Scotland under this government
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Perth voted Conservative once upon a time mate. Not any more.
 
HoboUK said:
For simple attendance, no, it's obviously not in the public interest to do so and is completely unworkable, however if offences are committed while in attendance, then they should be death with.

The OP provided information suggest they think he's been throwing pyro about (which is an offence on it's own) and given they aren't arresting everyone who attended, suggests there may be more to the story.

As to the 2nd part, absolutely none of your business and is not relevant to the conversation, but if I had and it resulted in Police involvement, I wouldn't be thinking I'd been target for my football team or religious affiliation, I'd probably think it was because I'd broken the restrictions.


Again,

Do you think the 10's of thousands of Protestant/Rangers fans/ Labour or Tory voting folk within the criminal justice system in Scotland are complicit with a national conspiracy to target folk of certain cultural backgrounds ? And in doing so have decided that the best way to enforce this is by targeting a young St Johnstone fan with an minor offence ?
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Why is he being charged with mobbing and rioting for allegedly throwing a pyro? Charge doesnt fit the crime. However you have decided he is guilty.
Why should those in attendance be arrested? They broke restrictions too or are you deciding what constitutes a crime.
As for the rest of tour pist it is clear you have broken restrictions and as you have said you have to take the punishment. So off you pop and hand yourself in given you are a paragon of virtue...
 
Gibraltar Loyal said:
Why is he being charged with mobbing and rioting for allegedly throwing a pyro? Charge doesnt fit the crime. However you have decided he is guilty.
Why should those in attendance be arrested? They broke restrictions too or are you deciding what constitutes a crime.
As for the rest of tour pist it is clear you have broken restrictions and as you have said you have to take the punishment. So off you pop and hand yourself in given you are a paragon of virtue...
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Reading comprehension not a strong point mate ? Just pop me on ignore xx
 
Don't you dare mention highest drug death rates in the entire Continent, how very dare you
TheDerryend said:
Now if petrol bombs were thrown, I might say, mobbing and rioting, but a bit of fun and smoke is no broad water farm.

I dont know the in and outs, but a 21 year old student celebrating st johnstone winning the cup, seems utterly ridiculous.

We had 2 deaths in town last week from bad valium, but hey let's go after these guys. Priorities and that
Click to expand...
 
Kingging said:
Perth votes conservative. Arrest them.
Pollokshields demonstrators votes SNP. Encourage them.
Rangers fans are unionists. Demonise them.
Tartan army are nationalists. Praise them.
East end of Glasgow around sharkheid votes SNP. Tolerate them.

You really don't have to be a political genius to spot the trends of propaganda in Scotland under this government
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The media no longer just report news. They are instrumental in creating it.

When the tims sang "sad orange bastard" at Kris Boyd it was all just a bit of fun. Compare and contrast the reaction when Steve Clarke got the same. Andy Walker was interviewed on Sky where he expressed his outrage for one but weeks earlier it was a laugh.

As a matter of interest there were no arrests in the Boyd case despite a number of the bigots being seen clearly on tv. If anyone knows how it would be nice to see video of the incident. See if anyone recognises the offenders.
 
HoboUK said:
Yeah, for sure.

I'm not even arguing that your boy deserves to be lifted, only arguing against this suggestion that it's being done at the command of the SNP. Cops only deal with whatever comes across their desks, if members of the public have made complaints about the gathering then the beat cops can't just dismiss it.

The courts will decide whether or not it's in the public interest to prosecute.



The same type of folk that have spent the last year trying to get their neighbours fined for having 1 too many people in their gardens, I think you seriously underestimate the pettiness of the general public.
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Have a look at the thread on the complaint sent to police re their investigation of the fake Rangers' video. They admit they only investigated it due to enquiries from certain media outlets and exceptional public interest. Pressure is being applied based on certain agendas.
 
T9 Row said:
Yes , date of offence was the Scottish Cup Final.
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I'll say this mate and please pass it on to the lad. When we were charged with this, the lawyers got the mobbing and rioting charge down to a less serious offence and pretty quickly.

Not saying all the charges will go away, but I feel a decent lawyer will get this amended at least. If there had been such a serious incident, we'd all have been aware of it by now in these social media times.
 
LOL 133 said:
Have a look at the thread on the complaint sent to police re their investigation of the fake Rangers' video. They admit they only investigated it due to enquiries from certain media outlets and exceptional public interest. Pressure is being applied based on certain agendas.
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Ok I will...

In addition, we received a number of complaints regarding the footage and the language attributed to some people who appeared in it.
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Emperor Smith said:
This.

We are 'policed by consent' in The UK. We are generally a law abiding society. Hence our police don't need to be routinely armed.

If they (the polis) start acting like the gestapo then that consent could easily be withdrawn and anarchy will ensue.
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Power to the people
 
HoboUK said:
Arrested for what?

Nvm - saw the update.

The lads committed am offence though, I'm sure he knew he wasn't meant to be part of large scale gatherings when he went. It's not up to the police to decide what crimes they progress and which they don't if there's been a complaint.

Folk need to start taking a bit of personal responsibility for their own decisions.



He's been lifted for a common law offence, one that's an extension of an even older common law offence.

Laws that predate the SNP.

There's no beat level pressure to target certain sets of society based on team or religious affiliation, it's simply not happening.

Do folk like you even think about your conspiracy theories ? Do you think the thousands of protestants or Rangers supporters within the justice system, from Police to Fiscals to JP's and Sheriff's, all are just complicit in a SNP led campaign to demonise them ?

That the only people that can see this blatant attack on us are the folk that (incidentally) are the ones getting lifted/charged for committing an offence ?

I've no problem with folk exercising their free will, but if you go and do something knowing that is an offence, just take your licks if you get caught.
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Your point would have some credibility had the police arrested fans outside Hampden at last years cup final, or at the Neil Lennon protests at Celtic park, or the mob that attacked two officers doing their job in Glasgow or the Palestinian protestors.

I could go on but you will get the gist of the point. The police aren’t applying the laws without fear of favour. Somewhere someone in Police Scotland decides which breaches are investigated and which are not.

I feel it is reasonable to ask who makes that decision and what criteria are used. I know I won’t get a straight answer as I have tried. This is what reduces public condfidence in policing and the public services that underpin our democracy.

To charge St J fans with rioting is beyond risible.
 
Lay off the individual police. Most them are decent and do a good job. Its the politicians that have caused this.
 
Wonder if any of the people who thought it was hilarious banter posting "Trouble in Perth as St. Johnstone fans spill tea, leave Jammie Dodger crumbs all over town" type posts on social media after the cup final have anything to say about this, regardless of whether or not these arrests were justified.
 
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