Police arresting St Johnstone fans this morning

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Bearsuk said:
Do you honestly think that they want to?
Police Scotland have no choice
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I agree with you to an extent Bearsuk. I feel sorry for rank and file officers now. They have lost all respect and much of the support of the public.
The incident with the illegal immigrants was a perfect example. It brought shame on the officers on the ground through no fault of their own.
Most police officers want to uphold the law in a fair and orderly manner, however it is their superiors who let them down. It is them who have folded to Scot Gov and its the officers on the front line that carry the can.
I know one of the riot officers who was at Pollokshields that day and to say he and his fellow officers were disgusted would be an understatement.
 
GovanFront4 said:
Not sure if it's the same in Scotland but I'm sure there can be up to 5 years in Northern Ireland for gathering to riot (don't know the actual name of the law).

Very serious charge. Although if it's young football fans they will be looking to put the shitters up them.
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Corrext a sentence that carries up to 5 years i’d suggest to the OP gets him a good lawyer and ffs plead not guilty.
 
T9 Row said:
Congregated outside the ground celebrating the Cup victory. From the videos l saw at the time online there were some flares but he said he didn’t have or touch any, seems its the pyro that was an issue.

l have no doubt he would have had a few beers and there would be some exuberance but he certainly wouldnt be rioting or trying to attack police if that’s what they’re insinuating with the charges.
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Did he "rampage" through any flowerbeds or dislodge some statues?
 
HoboUK said:
So you'd be supportive of the police choosing which laws to enforce and when ?

I assume the folk going there knew they were opening themselves up to a bit of bother. Is there to be no personal responsibility from folk ?

The courts can decide if it's in the public interest to prosecute, cops can't turn round and say "nah I'm not dealing with that" if there's been a report made and there's clearly offences been committed.

Seems to be a common misconception here that it's up to the Police to decide if something is worth pursuing, it's not, if a crime is reported then there is no question it needs to be progressed.

It's up to the fiscal to decide if seeking a prosecution is in the public interest.



Mass gatherings during a pandemic and throwing pyro about the streets are though.

And again, if as you suggest, the government are putting pressure on who to prosecute or not based on football team affiliation, it's not being directed at beat level cops who are actually dealing with the enquiries.
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You don’t need to control everyone in an organisation to control it you just need to control the guy who makes the decisions.

Back when we had regional police forces you wouldn’t be able to force them to do your bidding. These days Police Scotland have one commander. So that’s one man the snp need to bully, coerce or intimidate into doing what they want. Same goes for the head of the Judiciary who now literally has a seat on the Government. He’s not just in the pocket of the government he is IN the government. How can that ever be truly independen?
 
HoboUK said:
Yeah, for sure.

I'm not even arguing that your boy deserves to be lifted, only arguing against this suggestion that it's being done at the command of the SNP. Cops only deal with whatever comes across their desks, if members of the public have made complaints about the gathering then the beat cops can't just dismiss it.

The courts will decide whether or not it's in the public interest to prosecute.



The same type of folk that have spent the last year trying to get their neighbours fined for having 1 too many people in their gardens, I think you seriously underestimate the pettiness of the general public.
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HoboUk
I don't have any gripe about most of what you say and as you will see from my previous post I do sympathise with front line police officers.
However I have personal experience of coppers turning a blind eye when I reported to them ( non football related) blatant serious law breaking.
They informed me that they totally agreed with what I was saying but they had been given instructions from their senior officers not to get involved for fear of creating tensions.
So maybe things happening out there that your not quite aware of mate.
 
Sad state of affairs - every young lad has acted the arse as a teenager at the football.. getting arrested, potentially charged for gathering outside a football ground is ridiculous.

As has been pointed out though - people voted for politicians who will happily push through legislation, or the interpretation of legislation that “their” police force enforce.

It is frightening to see what Scotland has sleepwalked into being.

Hope the lad, indeed anyone being picked up for this nonsense, gets through this.


I was arrested at a cup final - police had let a group of Aberdeen casuals wander all round Hampden and at about 2:30 or so they started launching bottles at a crowd of mostly parents, grandparents & kids outside Hampden Cars. I was 17, one of them ran towards me and I had the choice of being knocked into next week or running at him to startle and avoid a smack. I did that, stupidly ran for too long and ended up nose first in someone’s garden with handcuffs on.
Got a dig in the ribs in the police van for sharing the view that if the police had been doing their job then those fans wouldn’t have been able to launch bottles at people!
Charged with Breach of the Peace, fine paid and a lesson or two learned.
 
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They arent arresting the fans who showed up they are arresting the horrible little cunts that cause problems. I have zero issues with the fans celebrating and having fun.
 
Cathcart Bear said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/848149476418236416

Some good advice here. Hopefully he's doing alright
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That advice posted is very good. I had an incident a few years back where as a delivery driver I reversed into someone’s car in a street cause i was blinded by the sun. Anyway left me details ect. Gets a call from the police a week later, can you pop into police station as owner of car claims you left the scene without leaving details. I stupidly do to the station, never been in any bother before very wet behind the ears. Gets interviewed, get asked if I want a free lawyer present but then basically told if you do this will take a while and due to the nature of the incident I’ve nothing to worry about. I say na it’s ok just get on with it. They take my statement I explain I left my details, I deliver in the same street every day and drive a massive van so not exactly hard to spot. They say it will be looked at by the procurator fiscal but not to worry very little chance anything will happen.

Fast forward a month, I’ve been cited to go to court, I was on 6 points at the time and was looking at losing my licence and therefore my job as well. Had to get a specialist solicitor to take my case, cost me two and a half grand to eventually be found not guilty. My solicitor gave me great advice, never under any circumstances speak to the police without a lawyer.
 
Northhiglander said:
This is what Scotland voted for. We have a Police force that is under Political control. That is dangerous for any democracy.

St Johnstone fans are hardly known as a hotbed of ultra violent football fans. Winning two cups for the first time in their history surely a wee bit of exuberance can be allowed.
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Nah, feck them, they probably have a notably high percentage of nicola fan boys in their ranks.
Reap what they sow.
 
bilkobear said:
Pathetic.
The police are making a dangerous environment for themselves.
Eventually if not already, the public will despise them and the implications for an unarmed police service with such a hostile public will rapidly become extremely difficult.
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I've gone full 180 over 20 years from total support and respect to distrust and near loathing.
 
HoboUK said:
So you'd be supportive of the police choosing which laws to enforce and when ?

I assume the folk going there knew they were opening themselves up to a bit of bother. Is there to be no personal responsibility from folk ?

The courts can decide if it's in the public interest to prosecute, cops can't turn round and say "nah I'm not dealing with that" if there's been a report made and there's clearly offences been committed.

Seems to be a common misconception here that it's up to the Police to decide if something is worth pursuing, it's not, if a crime is reported then there is no question it needs to be progressed.

It's up to the fiscal to decide if seeking a prosecution is in the public interest.



Mass gatherings during a pandemic and throwing pyro about the streets are though.

And again, if as you suggest, the government are putting pressure on who to prosecute or not based on football team affiliation, it's not being directed at beat level cops who are actually dealing with the enquiries.
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Problem is PF decides based on the evidence gathered by the police. I still don’t understand who decides which breaches of the law are investigated and which are not. Must be someone in Police Scotland making that decision. Cant see individual area officers acting unilaterally must be some guidance.
 
EH47 said:
Nah, feck them, they probably have a notably high percentage of nicola fan boys in their ranks.
Reap what they sow.
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Perthshire has a far larger percentage of pro Union voters than Glasgow.
 
Canada Loyal said:
There's a good chance that the evidence will be lost
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To me this is a box ticking exercise, designed to suggest an across the board policy. It will probably not see court, or if it does it will be dismissed. The reasoning will be that it was just young guys celebrating after being cooped up for months without an outlet.
All perfectly reasonable.
However, if they were Rangers fans...

Notable though there was no police/mhedia collaboration to track down or clipe on the celtc fans who deliberately broke lockdown to congreagate and riot at The Knew Camp and deliberately attempt to brick the celtc team bus and hurl objects at police lines.
 
The police arrested a man in Fife for breaking into a five pound note?
The Fife judge admonished him with a stern warning, not to do it again?
 
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