Police Scotland The ScotGov + Rangers

Papatango

Well-Known Member
It would appear that yet again Police Scotland & the Scottish Government are colluding to hide they're strategy towards RFC and Rangers fans by ignoring FOI requests.

The detail in this Scotsman article is beyond worrying.


Police Scotland deny breaching FOI law through 'not for disclosure' markings

Police Scotland have denied routinely marking documents as not disclosable under Freedom of Information (FOI) despite evidence suggesting it may be a regular practice at the force.



in response to a request, Police Scotland said “any such marking/comment would have no basis in law” and insisted there was no routine process whereby officers decide whether documents are disclosable under the legislation or not.

All information held by public bodies is subject to FOI and can only be kept secret if particular conditions and exemptions are met as set out by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act.

However, The Scotsman has evidence of at least one document, a key briefing to the Scottish Government around the policing of the Rangers trophy presentation in May, as being marked as not disclosable under FOI legislation.

Police Scotland claimed any such marking would be “disregarded by the FOI team”, with officials assessing whether to disclose information on a case-by-case basis.



However, it is impossible to know how widespread the practice is at the force after it rejected a request for the number of documents marked as non-disclosable.

Claiming an excessive cost exemption, officials argued the request would require a full search of Police Scotland’s entire database to establish how many documents created in a single week might include a comment on whether it could be disclosed.

It is also not clear whether this practice, widespread or not, has impacted past FOI requests to the force or whether key information is being kept from the public eye.



Police Scotland did not answer how the force benefits from such markings if not to avoid disclosure under FOI, but claimed staff are not asked to mark documents in this manner.



Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "Our highly-trained FOI team process up to 900 requests each quarter in accordance with the FOI legislation.

"There is no Police Scotland policy of marking documents as disclosable or otherwise under FOI and our routine reporting templates do not include the need for this assessment.

“We are aware that some documents, particularly where legacy or local forms are used, are marked in this way. However, our officers and staff are not asked to do this.

"When requests are received, the FOI team assesses all relevant information and responds with all documents which come under the remit of the legislation. Anyone dissatisfied with a response can request a review and, following that, are able to appeal to the Information Commissioner.



Police Scotland is committed to transparency in line with our values of fairness, integrity, respect and a commitment to human rights."

Scottish Conservative community safety spokesperson Russell Findlay said officers should be focused on fighting crime rather than "plotting new ways to keep the public in the dark”.

He said: “This is a worrying glimpse into the inner workings of the SNP’s secret Scotland.

“Since its inception, the noble ideals of Freedom of Information have been corrupted by taxpayer-funded lawyers on behalf of public sector pen-pushers with a pathological hatred of transparency.”





Scottish Labour’s justice spokesperson Pauline McNeill said the revelations raise “serious questions” about how Freedom of Information laws are being applied.

She said: “The proper application of FOI legislation is absolutely crucial to maintaining transparency and openness in Scottish authorities, but it is all too common for public bodies in Scotland to be found best misunderstanding the law and, at worst, ignoring it.

“More must be done to ensure public bodies fully understand and abide by their responsibilities under FOI law, and the legislation itself should be improved by strengthening the presumption in favour of publication.”

Justice spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, Liam McArthur, said: "The Scottish Government have been serial FOI offenders and now it looks like Police Scotland have picked up some of their bad habits.



Every document should be considered on its own merits in line with the Freedom of Information Act. It's important that senior staff are not leaning on FOI staff to improperly prevent information from being released.”
 

TheDerryend

Well-Known Member
It would appear that yet again Police Scotland & the Scottish Government are colluding to hide they're strategy towards RFC and Rangers fans by ignoring FOI requests.

The detail in this Scotsman article is beyond worrying.


Police Scotland deny breaching FOI law through 'not for disclosure' markings

Police Scotland have denied routinely marking documents as not disclosable under Freedom of Information (FOI) despite evidence suggesting it may be a regular practice at the force.



in response to a request, Police Scotland said “any such marking/comment would have no basis in law” and insisted there was no routine process whereby officers decide whether documents are disclosable under the legislation or not.

All information held by public bodies is subject to FOI and can only be kept secret if particular conditions and exemptions are met as set out by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act.

However, The Scotsman has evidence of at least one document, a key briefing to the Scottish Government around the policing of the Rangers trophy presentation in May, as being marked as not disclosable under FOI legislation.

Police Scotland claimed any such marking would be “disregarded by the FOI team”, with officials assessing whether to disclose information on a case-by-case basis.



However, it is impossible to know how widespread the practice is at the force after it rejected a request for the number of documents marked as non-disclosable.

Claiming an excessive cost exemption, officials argued the request would require a full search of Police Scotland’s entire database to establish how many documents created in a single week might include a comment on whether it could be disclosed.

It is also not clear whether this practice, widespread or not, has impacted past FOI requests to the force or whether key information is being kept from the public eye.



Police Scotland did not answer how the force benefits from such markings if not to avoid disclosure under FOI, but claimed staff are not asked to mark documents in this manner.



Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "Our highly-trained FOI team process up to 900 requests each quarter in accordance with the FOI legislation.

"There is no Police Scotland policy of marking documents as disclosable or otherwise under FOI and our routine reporting templates do not include the need for this assessment.

“We are aware that some documents, particularly where legacy or local forms are used, are marked in this way. However, our officers and staff are not asked to do this.

"When requests are received, the FOI team assesses all relevant information and responds with all documents which come under the remit of the legislation. Anyone dissatisfied with a response can request a review and, following that, are able to appeal to the Information Commissioner.



Police Scotland is committed to transparency in line with our values of fairness, integrity, respect and a commitment to human rights."

Scottish Conservative community safety spokesperson Russell Findlay said officers should be focused on fighting crime rather than "plotting new ways to keep the public in the dark”.

He said: “This is a worrying glimpse into the inner workings of the SNP’s secret Scotland.

“Since its inception, the noble ideals of Freedom of Information have been corrupted by taxpayer-funded lawyers on behalf of public sector pen-pushers with a pathological hatred of transparency.”





Scottish Labour’s justice spokesperson Pauline McNeill said the revelations raise “serious questions” about how Freedom of Information laws are being applied.

She said: “The proper application of FOI legislation is absolutely crucial to maintaining transparency and openness in Scottish authorities, but it is all too common for public bodies in Scotland to be found best misunderstanding the law and, at worst, ignoring it.

“More must be done to ensure public bodies fully understand and abide by their responsibilities under FOI law, and the legislation itself should be improved by strengthening the presumption in favour of publication.”

Justice spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, Liam McArthur, said: "The Scottish Government have been serial FOI offenders and now it looks like Police Scotland have picked up some of their bad habits.



Every document should be considered on its own merits in line with the Freedom of Information Act. It's important that senior staff are not leaning on FOI staff to improperly prevent information from being released.”
Good post mate. This is alarming and its good to see it making it onto the msm.
 

SSR

Well-Known Member
It would appear that yet again Police Scotland & the Scottish Government are colluding to hide they're strategy towards RFC and Rangers fans by ignoring FOI requests.

The detail in this Scotsman article is beyond worrying.


Police Scotland deny breaching FOI law through 'not for disclosure' markings

Police Scotland have denied routinely marking documents as not disclosable under Freedom of Information (FOI) despite evidence suggesting it may be a regular practice at the force.



in response to a request, Police Scotland said “any such marking/comment would have no basis in law” and insisted there was no routine process whereby officers decide whether documents are disclosable under the legislation or not.

All information held by public bodies is subject to FOI and can only be kept secret if particular conditions and exemptions are met as set out by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act.

However, The Scotsman has evidence of at least one document, a key briefing to the Scottish Government around the policing of the Rangers trophy presentation in May, as being marked as not disclosable under FOI legislation.

Police Scotland claimed any such marking would be “disregarded by the FOI team”, with officials assessing whether to disclose information on a case-by-case basis.



However, it is impossible to know how widespread the practice is at the force after it rejected a request for the number of documents marked as non-disclosable.

Claiming an excessive cost exemption, officials argued the request would require a full search of Police Scotland’s entire database to establish how many documents created in a single week might include a comment on whether it could be disclosed.

It is also not clear whether this practice, widespread or not, has impacted past FOI requests to the force or whether key information is being kept from the public eye.



Police Scotland did not answer how the force benefits from such markings if not to avoid disclosure under FOI, but claimed staff are not asked to mark documents in this manner.



Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "Our highly-trained FOI team process up to 900 requests each quarter in accordance with the FOI legislation.

"There is no Police Scotland policy of marking documents as disclosable or otherwise under FOI and our routine reporting templates do not include the need for this assessment.

“We are aware that some documents, particularly where legacy or local forms are used, are marked in this way. However, our officers and staff are not asked to do this.

"When requests are received, the FOI team assesses all relevant information and responds with all documents which come under the remit of the legislation. Anyone dissatisfied with a response can request a review and, following that, are able to appeal to the Information Commissioner.



Police Scotland is committed to transparency in line with our values of fairness, integrity, respect and a commitment to human rights."

Scottish Conservative community safety spokesperson Russell Findlay said officers should be focused on fighting crime rather than "plotting new ways to keep the public in the dark”.

He said: “This is a worrying glimpse into the inner workings of the SNP’s secret Scotland.

“Since its inception, the noble ideals of Freedom of Information have been corrupted by taxpayer-funded lawyers on behalf of public sector pen-pushers with a pathological hatred of transparency.”





Scottish Labour’s justice spokesperson Pauline McNeill said the revelations raise “serious questions” about how Freedom of Information laws are being applied.

She said: “The proper application of FOI legislation is absolutely crucial to maintaining transparency and openness in Scottish authorities, but it is all too common for public bodies in Scotland to be found best misunderstanding the law and, at worst, ignoring it.

“More must be done to ensure public bodies fully understand and abide by their responsibilities under FOI law, and the legislation itself should be improved by strengthening the presumption in favour of publication.”

Justice spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, Liam McArthur, said: "The Scottish Government have been serial FOI offenders and now it looks like Police Scotland have picked up some of their bad habits.



Every document should be considered on its own merits in line with the Freedom of Information Act. It's important that senior staff are not leaning on FOI staff to improperly prevent information from being released.”
This is actually quite disturbing.
 

Govanfront

Well-Known Member
Great idea to cost the tax payer more money
If they answered the FOI requests in the first place there would be no need for repeated requests. If the only way to get answers is to hound them then its justified.
Its police Scotland and Scottish Gov who are costing tax payers money by ignoring their legal obligations and potentially covering up wrongdoing and injustice.
 

daven37

Well-Known Member
The ICO is the next logical step.

Is it the case that we actually need someone with experience in law to help us submit these request? Do we need this taking up by right minded msps?

The information is well within the public interest, withholding it is disgraceful.
 

KirkieRanger

Well-Known Member
Police Scotland are in the snp's back pocket.
That is helped by amalgamating all the different police forces into "Police Scotland" where they only have to influence the one top cop instead of all of them as previously. This is obviously much easier now with their puppet placeman. Based on the Lawwell blueprint for controlling Scottish football.:mad:

W.A.T.P.
 

RfcIbrox

Well-Known Member
What they are saying is they will use the FOI excessive cost exemption to stop an FOI into how many FOIs are marked as exempt. That is as corrupt as feck.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
A corrupt government and political police force. Plenty people and unfortunately some who say they’re Rangers fans will happily vote for a corrupt government as long as it’s a group they dislike that the corruption goes against.
 

TheDerryend

Well-Known Member
It would appear that yet again Police Scotland & the Scottish Government are colluding to hide they're strategy towards RFC and Rangers fans by ignoring FOI requests.

The detail in this Scotsman article is beyond worrying.


Police Scotland deny breaching FOI law through 'not for disclosure' markings

Police Scotland have denied routinely marking documents as not disclosable under Freedom of Information (FOI) despite evidence suggesting it may be a regular practice at the force.



in response to a request, Police Scotland said “any such marking/comment would have no basis in law” and insisted there was no routine process whereby officers decide whether documents are disclosable under the legislation or not.

All information held by public bodies is subject to FOI and can only be kept secret if particular conditions and exemptions are met as set out by the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act.

However, The Scotsman has evidence of at least one document, a key briefing to the Scottish Government around the policing of the Rangers trophy presentation in May, as being marked as not disclosable under FOI legislation.

Police Scotland claimed any such marking would be “disregarded by the FOI team”, with officials assessing whether to disclose information on a case-by-case basis.



However, it is impossible to know how widespread the practice is at the force after it rejected a request for the number of documents marked as non-disclosable.

Claiming an excessive cost exemption, officials argued the request would require a full search of Police Scotland’s entire database to establish how many documents created in a single week might include a comment on whether it could be disclosed.

It is also not clear whether this practice, widespread or not, has impacted past FOI requests to the force or whether key information is being kept from the public eye.



Police Scotland did not answer how the force benefits from such markings if not to avoid disclosure under FOI, but claimed staff are not asked to mark documents in this manner.



Assistant Chief Constable Alan Speirs said: "Our highly-trained FOI team process up to 900 requests each quarter

Labour, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats all comment, but nothing from the Snp or the Greens. Who would have thought that Scotland would have a nationalist government controlling the police and barely a word is uttered.
Tells it's own story that mate. To be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised at the comments from the opposition. Anybody need more proof of the green party? Only thing genuine about them, is their chosen colour.
 

KazKoz

Well-Known Member
It did intrigue me when virtually the SNPs first action in power was to create this single Police force.. very much like my naivety when Lawell joined the SPFL board thinking maybe he will understand things better from the inside.. it is about control on a more and more dangerous level..
 

ChildOfGod

Well-Known Member
Needs reported to the U.K. information commissioner as our local people can’t be trusted

Don’t they also have that in hand as there is a Scottish information commissioner ?


seems in 2018-9 certain unnamed bodies destroyed information to avoid disclosure so it’s a serious problem

And it also looks like the public are being failed wrt FOI that is no shock

 
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miraculous

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
it is impossible to know how widespread the practice is at the force after it rejected a request for the number of documents marked as non-disclosable.

welcome to Sturgeon's brave new world
 

RobbieRFC

Well-Known Member
They don’t have a very good ‘database’ if you can’t use simple text searches or filters. Probably cost a fortune as well.

Also, why are a modern national police force using ‘legacy’ & ‘local’ forms? It wouldn’t be to give them an excuse not to reveal information would it?

This response is just typical in snp Scotland, give an answer that nobody can check and hope it just goes away.
 

mart22

Well-Known Member
Great idea to cost the tax payer more money
Police Scotland have salaried staff to deal with FOI requests. It doesn't matter how many FOI's they get, their staff are paid the same amount of money.
This, if you ask me, is more evidence to back up the obvious agenda the Scottish Govt and Scottish public institutions have against Rangers. This is what happens when beast supporters infest the highest levels, and the lowest of our institutions. These guys take their grudges, and their tribalism to work with them.
 

temperance

Well-Known Member
So the FOI team are not instructed to mark the documents as not to be released, so they are just doing it off their own backs? Surely that can’t be right?
 

Midfield General

Well-Known Member
It was done before with the fighting fund. I don't know who organised it but admin could possibly round them up and get donations organised.

We could then try and fathom out the next steps.

I get what you mean mate but nothing will happen unless you either do it yourself or start a movement and involve others to help.
You see a lot of posts saying we should "we"should be doing this or that but what they really mean is they want something done but they want someone else to do it.Not saying this is you by the way. I get annoyed by things that have happened to the fans or the Club but I can think of only two occasions where I actually stood up and did anything so I'm as guilty as anyone else.
Maybe if Club 1872 gets reformed that might be the vehicle to right wrongs rather than individual fans having to do it.
 

GourockBlue50

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I get what you mean mate but nothing will happen unless you either do it yourself or start a movement and involve others to help.
You see a lot of posts saying we should "we"should be doing this or that but what they really mean is they want something done but they want someone else to do it.Not saying this is you by the way. I get annoyed by things that have happened to the fans or the Club but I can think of only two occasions where I actually stood up and did anything so I'm as guilty as anyone else.
Maybe if Club 1872 gets reformed that might be the vehicle to right wrongs rather than individual fans having to do it.
I get what what you are saying but I just wouldn't have the time to organise something like that.
I would defo be wanting someone else organising it and for me just to contribute financially.
 

Corkinator

Well-Known Member
The uk is going down a very Sinatra road with regards to corrupt politicians, police forces, media organisations, etc, but Scotland is well ahead of the curve in this, it’s astonishing and very rarely reported on.
we’re in a very dangerous place just now.
 
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