Police Scotland

[Sir Sasa Papac]

@Sir Sasa Papac

This might help you some more understand why the police did what they did at the second goal. It is a video of the aftermath of Copenhagen's first goal and the "imaginary bad behaviour" I made up
(found on a timmy vlog via a Copenhagen forum.) It should start at the right time. If it doesn't, skip to 11:25 of the video.

I just watched the video. There’s no misbehaviour at all, just away fans celebrating a goal. Not so much a as a scuffle and nothing afterwards either. You’re talking nonsense

 

[Slim Jim]

This thread is embarrassing, it’s like something from Kerrydale Street and yes I sometimes have a wee look. It’s obvious what happened, a senior police officer got taken out by a Copenhagen player, if it had been a Constable nothing would have been said. Probably the PF will drop the charges. We get posters on here telling us Scotland is a shithole, it’s the SNP etc.etc. Get a grip stop behaving like the tims.

 

[JorgAlbertz]

All this hysterical “what if somebody got crushed” patter is for the bin. The same could be said about any high profile football match where you don’t see 30 plastic hard men in yellow jackets grabbing and jostling players and ruining the experience of away fans. And what good would those polis do anyway if there was a crush in the stand they’re too busy trying to stop away players celebrating.

You act like this is how police behave as a matter of course. It isn’t.
You imply without a million polis in the corner that we were heading for a riot prompted crush. No chance
You seem to think the copper had to grab the goal scorer. He didn’t

Have a day off fs

You can't answer my question because you know that if a bear got injured and the police did nothing you'd be the first to be up in arms about it. <edit just seen your other comment on the vid>

It's not patter for the bin - it's a serious concern at that particular stadium both outside and inside (particularly in our section downstairs - been there as a fan and at work in crushes and it's fucking terrible). Someone already died there at a Scotland game because of the unsafe design and it's a matter of time before it happens again. Hopefully not one of us or your comment will come back to haunt you.

Maybe you're right that it is futile for the police to get involved, but if they do nothing and someone ends up getting hurt they will be criticised more than if they try to do something. I don't see how keeping the players out of the crowd ruins the experience for anyone though. The fans don't need to jump 10 rows forward and crush their fellow fans at the front to make it better. The players don't need to be in the crowd to make it better. All it does is create a risk for safety of players and fans. Yes there's a goal, it's important, we're all excited but FFS you don't need people to potentially get hurt because of it.

You are right as well that it is not a matter of course for police to have to put hands on a player because in the vast majority of games you don't see players running right into the fans. Sometimes they do get caught in the moment though. It's not something that can be trained for or something that they want. They want the players to do what they were told to before the game and within the Laws of the Game. Stay on the pitch.

 

[JorgAlbertz]

I just watched the video. There’s no misbehaviour at all, just away fans celebrating a goal. Not so much a as a scuffle and nothing afterwards either. You’re talking nonsense

You don't see folk surging to the front and jumping down over seats, crushing people in front of them? Or you do see it and think that is OK?

What is it with bears thinking crush situations at Parkhead are acceptable?

That's now been crushes outside at the cemetery side, inside away section concourses and now in the away support section of the stand. The last one is because players can easily run into the fans and there is a large space in front of row A where fans from a good few rows can get to the players.

It is not acceptable and someone will get seriously hurt or worse. What part of this is so hard to understand?

I never said scuffles with fans/police - it was the stewards (not trained, not official stewards by all accounts) who got in scuffles with the police both at the second goal and prior to that which wouldn't be on TV or footage.

 

[Sir Sasa Papac]

You can't answer my question because you know that if a bear got injured and the police did nothing you'd be the first to be up in arms about it. You also showed no contrition for your comments about me making things up which I've shown with that video were true. I'll take it by not mentioning it you accept that I wasn't making anything up.

It's not patter for the bin - it's a serious concern at that particular stadium both outside and inside (particularly in our section downstairs - been there as a fan and at work in crushes and it's fucking terrible). Someone already died there at a Scotland game because of the unsafe design and it's a matter of time before it happens again. Hopefully not one of us or your comment will come back to haunt you.

Maybe you're right that it is futile for the police to get involved, but if they do nothing and someone ends up getting hurt they will be criticised more than if they try to do something. I don't see how keeping the players out of the crowd ruins the experience for anyone though. The fans don't need to jump 10 rows forward and crush their fellow fans at the front to make it better. The players don't need to be in the crowd to make it better. All it does is create a risk for safety of players and fans. Yes there's a goal, it's important, we're all excited but FFS you don't need people to potentially get hurt because of it.

You are right as well that it is not a matter of course for police to have to put hands on a player because in the vast majority of games you don't see players running right into the fans. Sometimes they do get caught in the moment though. It's not something that can be trained for or something that they want. They want the players to do what they were told to before the game and within the Laws of the Game. Stay on the pitch.

You’re an apologist, it’s not you’re fault, you’re a Polis, you’re all the same. It’s not within you to hold a critical view over one of your own. You’ll justify it one way or another however bizarre you’re reasoning.
Your arguments are ridiculous and invariably boil down to “what were we meant to do” or make up some imaginary disturbance to justify shite policing.

You must think most of were born yesterday

 

[Sir Sasa Papac]

You don't see folk surging to the front and jumping down over seats, crushing people in front of them? Or you do see it and think that is OK?

What is it with bears thinking crush situations at Parkhead are acceptable?

That's now been crushes outside at the cemetery side, inside away section concourses and now in the away support section of the stand. The last one is because players can easily run into the fans and there is a large space in front of row A where fans from a good few rows can get to the players.

It is not acceptable and someone will get seriously hurt or worse. What part of this is so hard to understand?

I never said scuffles with fans/police - it was the stewards (not trained, not official stewards by all accounts) who got in scuffles with the police both at the second goal and prior to that which wouldn't be on TV or footage.

You’re actually sticking with your initial shite about their being crowd disturbance? Even though you’ve posted the video and time stampted the point where it clearly shows people rushing to the front of a stand over empty seats. Exactly the same as every away support in the country after a goal.

There is no crush, it’s in your warped justification for your pals making a tit of themselves.

You’re embarrassing yourself

 

[JorgAlbertz]

You’re actually sticking with your initial shite about their being crowd disturbance? Even though you’ve posted the video and time stamp ted the point where it clearly shows people rushing to the front of a stand over empty seats. Exactly the same as every away support in the country after a goal.

There is no crush, it’s in your warped justification for your pals making a tit of themselves.

You’re embarrassing yourself

My "initial shite" if you check back to Post 138 was "At their first goal there was a surge forward which caused a bit of a crush with fans rushing down from behind although nobody got onto the pitch. Some of the stewards ended up physically fighting with the police and had to be removed and at least one I know of was arrested. For the second goal, again the players came off the pitch - going against the instructions they get before the match - and they were trying to stop that happening again and that's when the Inspector got decked."

I never once mentioned 'crowd disturbance' or the fans fighting with anyone. As I said, a bit of a crush.

The stewards (not official or trained stewards) were non compliant with the police and Celtic stewards all night.

After the crush at the first goal, the guys who were there have tried to stop that happening again by keeping the players on the pitch (which the second goalscorer tried to circumvent and get into the fans again). The inspector tried to get between him and the stand and got knocked over by the team mate. The other players were forcibly moved off the track back onto the pitch where they should be. This was done by police because the Copenhagen stewards who were there were not cooperative and the Celtic stewards largely were keeping the fans in the stand, leaving police to control the track.

What do you think would happen if there were no police or stewards there? Probably fans on the track/pitch, swamping players and possibly home fans on too. You might not like the police and you might not understand what is done or the rationale for it but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

Also if you want to believe Parkhead is a safe stadium and doesn't require some additional level of policing and stewarding so be it. I think it's a deathtrap and someone (hopefully not a bear) will end up seriously hurt.

 

[Sir Sasa Papac]

My "initial shite" if you check back to Post 138 was "At their first goal there was a surge forward which caused a bit of a crush with fans rushing down from behind although nobody got onto the pitch. Some of the stewards ended up physically fighting with the police and had to be removed and at least one I know of was arrested. For the second goal, again the players came off the pitch - going against the instructions they get before the match - and they were trying to stop that happening again and that's when the Inspector got decked."

I never once mentioned 'crowd disturbance' or the fans fighting with anyone. As I said, a bit of a crush.

The stewards (not official or trained stewards) were non compliant with the police and Celtic stewards all night.

After the crush at the first goal, the guys who were there have tried to stop that happening again by keeping the players on the pitch (which the second goalscorer tried to circumvent and get into the fans again). The inspector tried to get between him and the stand and got knocked over by the team mate. The other players were forcibly moved off the track back onto the pitch where they should be. This was done by police because the Copenhagen stewards who were there were not cooperative and the Celtic stewards largely were keeping the fans in the stand, leaving police to control the track.

What do you think would happen if there were no police or stewards there? Probably fans on the track/pitch, swamping players and possibly home fans on too. You might not like the police and you might not understand what is done or the rationale for it but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

Also if you want to believe Parkhead is a safe stadium and doesn't require some additional level of policing and stewarding so be it. I think it's a deathtrap and someone (hopefully not a bear) will end up seriously hurt.

Enough, honestly, we get it, the brave police prevented a tragedy and a sure riot by their very useless presence.

We should be proud that one of them grabs somebody then falls on his arse and even more proud that we’re now charging someone for assault.

Very proud

 

[Southernlion]

I find it interesting your comments about the safety of the ground. Is this an official viewpoint or just your own personal take?

 

[JorgAlbertz]

Enough, honestly, we get it, the brave police prevented a tragedy and a sure riot by their very useless presence.

We should be proud that one of them grabs somebody then falls on his arse and even more proud that we’re now charging someone for assault.

Very proud

Look man I've came on here and tried to give some honest answers because there was a lot of people judging what happened on the basis of a 5 second clip that shows virtually nothing of what really happened through the evening and people getting it wildly wrong.

If you can't accept that the police are at games to try and keep people safe and sometimes things go wrong and want to come on here acting the big man slating them and having a go at a fellow bear who is just trying to give some context that's your prerogative. It isn't really what makes for a decent interesting debate but there are bigger things to worry about.

It might not have ended in a tragedy last night, the police might not have got it 100% right. These things happen and everyone should be glad the Danish guys got out of there safely. Lets leave it at that and hope whatever problems there are at the piggery get ironed out before we have to go back there again eh.

 

[Stez64]

This video has now been blocked by uefa

 

[JorgAlbertz]

I find it interesting your comments about the safety of the ground. Is this an official viewpoint or just your own personal take?

You'll only find my personal opinions, imagination, shite, pathetic and blind defending of the police, excuses, hysterical patter, apologist nonsense, ridiculous patter and warped justification here .

Special thanks to Sir Sasa of Papac for such humbling estimations of my contributions tonight.

 

[a_curb_hit]

Not fit for purpose

 

[oranje-viola]

All this hysterical “what if somebody got crushed” patter is for the bin. The same could be said about any high profile football match where you don’t see 30 plastic hard men in yellow jackets grabbing and jostling players and ruining the experience of away fans. And what good would those polis do anyway if there was a crush in the stand they’re too busy trying to stop away players celebrating.

You act like this is how police behave as a matter of course. It isn’t.
You imply without a million polis in the corner that we were heading for a riot prompted crush. No chance
You seem to think the copper had to grab the goal scorer. He didn’t

Have a day off fs

If the ground - the away area in particular - is such a death trap then why isn’t something done about it? The police have the power in terms of issuing safety certificates in conjunction with the local authorities id guess so they can put an end to the requirement for unwieldy and intimidating numbers of police and stewards hemming away fans in like caged animals whilst the rest of the stadium - and every other fkn ground in the country - sees nothing like the sort of hi-vis wearing focus as the away section at the piggery.

The way that section and visiting teams in general are policed and handled at the piggery is dehumanising and likely to aggravate tensions. For example I’ve been waiting - with bated breath I have to admit - for a steward or police to get twatted onto their arse for years now at that corner given the way they conduct themselves when an opposing team scores a goal at that shithole. Even going back to Lafferty in 2010 this aggression and lack of professionalism from those in yellow has been glaring - quite simply you don’t see such blatant and disproportionate ‘control’ of visiting players and fans anywhere else in Scotland or indeed the UK.

As usual, Police have the power to do something (like closing the away section down if it’s a death trap and moving the away section elsewhere and reducing the capacity of that cesspit) about that poisonous and obnoxious club over there but they are too meek, insipid and feart of their political superiors they bury their heads in the sand and do their masters bidding for the sake of ‘one scotland, many cultures’ BS and alllow the wee persecuted ‘Irish’ minority to flaunt every rule in the book whilst protecting them from the merest hint of offence.

Which I’m guessing scoring a goal against their football team at their sty now constitutes an offensive act against the persecuted wee sowels.

 

[georgedoors]

Aah yes it would've been so much better if their players had ran right into their fans and someone got seriously injured in the second crush of the night. Let's just invite all players to carte blanche run into the away support at the deathtrap, it'll be some giggle.

Been good to have some context to the events.
Although I would like to have thought if that part of the ground is such a danger area, why not report as a health n safety matter.

 

[georgedoors]

If the ground - the away area in particular - is such a death trap then why isn’t something done about it? The police have the power in terms of issuing safety certificates in conjunction with the local authorities id guess so they can put an end to the requirement for unwieldy and intimidating numbers of police and stewards hemming away fans in like caged animals whilst the rest of the stadium - and every other fkn ground in the country - sees nothing like the sort of hi-vis wearing focus as the away section at the piggery.

The way that section and visiting teams in general are policed and handled at the piggery is dehumanising and likely to aggravate tensions. For example I’ve been waiting - with bated breath I have to admit - for a steward or police to get twatted onto their arse for years now at that corner given the way they conduct themselves when an opposing team scores a goal at that shithole. Even going back to Lafferty in 2010 this aggression and lack of professionalism from those in yellow has been glaring - quite simply you don’t see such blatant and disproportionate ‘control’ of visiting players and fans anywhere else in Scotland or indeed the UK.

As usual, Police have the power to do something (like closing the away section down if it’s a death trap and moving the away section elsewhere and reducing the capacity of that cesspit) about that poisonous and obnoxious club over there but they are too meek, insipid and feart of their political superiors they bury their heads in the sand and do their masters bidding for the sake of ‘one scotland, many cultures’ BS and alllow the wee persecuted ‘Irish’ minority to flaunt every rule in the book whilst protecting them from the merest hint of offence.

Which I’m guessing scoring a goal against their football team at their sty now constitutes an offensive act against the persecuted wee sowels.

Well said sir

 

[oranje-viola]

You don't see folk surging to the front and jumping down over seats, crushing people in front of them? Or you do see it and think that is OK?

What is it with bears thinking crush situations at Parkhead are acceptable?

That's now been crushes outside at the cemetery side, inside away section concourses and now in the away support section of the stand. The last one is because players can easily run into the fans and there is a large space in front of row A where fans from a good few rows can get to the players.

It is not acceptable and someone will get seriously hurt or worse. What part of this is so hard to understand?

I never said scuffles with fans/police - it was the stewards (not trained, not official stewards by all accounts) who got in scuffles with the police both at the second goal and prior to that which wouldn't be on TV or footage.

With such a recurring trend on a similar theme isn’t it about time the Police then did something about the place and started implementing measures to reduce capacity and make the place safer then?? Worth bearing in mind we’ve also had a death in the stairwell there at the Scotland Ireland game in 2014.

I’d bet that any other sporting venue which obviously raises such concerns for spectator and player safety as the Stydome does would be at least restricted in capacity and more than likely shut down for a bit until such times as plans put in place to alleviate the concerns and hazards.

But as usual the police and other relevant authorities simply run scared of offending that club and their associated ‘community’ and its hard not to have the impression that they are (especially GCC) more on the complicit side of things and actively supporting Celtic getting an easy ride of things.

The way that section is policed, the way opposing players and fans are manhandled and dehumanised is simply out of proportion and sync with how every other sporting event is managed in this country and is symptomatic of the feeling that most of us have that it is one rule for the vermin and they are above the law through a combination of political machinations and being treated with kid gloves by a weak and insipid police force who don’t want to rock the boat in SNP Scotland.

Close the away section at the piggery down and move away fans elsewhere if it’s so dangerous. There’s a start

 

[Edweird]

This video has now been blocked by uefa

polis.MOV

drive.google.com

 

[Presbyterian]

I’ve nearly lost all respect for the police now, totally inept and incompetent from the top down and the rank and file seem to be polluted with unfit brain-dead plebs and 4ft tall women.

Back in the day nearly every copper was near enough 6ft and build like a tank, most of them took no shite off anyone but there was at least an element of respect even though they could be right bastards.

Passed two polis yesterday in Partick who, without a shadow of a doubt, couldn’t have run a hundreds yards if they had been on fire, a couple of old dears at the bus stop just shook their heads as the cops waddled past, sad but true.

 

[nemessis]

This video has now been blocked by uefa

"Big mhankyfeet" Pete Lawwell ?

 

[SimonLeBon]

If a screw told me it was raining outside, I'd open the curtains and check.

 

[blu]

polis.MOV

drive.google.com

the copper clearly trips as the player has both his arms out sideways not even touching him embarassing the fat idiot is even trying to press charges.there should be a full scale inquiry in to exactly what the police were up to.it was pre planned because as soon as the away fans cheer the cops are out like a shot.yet not one comes out when the scum scored.

 

[Bigbluebear]

You don't see folk surging to the front and jumping down over seats, crushing people in front of them? Or you do see it and think that is OK?

What is it with bears thinking crush situations at Parkhead are acceptable?

That's now been crushes outside at the cemetery side, inside away section concourses and now in the away support section of the stand. The last one is because players can easily run into the fans and there is a large space in front of row A where fans from a good few rows can get to the players.

It is not acceptable and someone will get seriously hurt or worse. What part of this is so hard to understand?

I never said scuffles with fans/police - it was the stewards (not trained, not official stewards by all accounts) who got in scuffles with the police both at the second goal and prior to that which wouldn't be on TV or footage.

It is also narrower at the bottom so there is people from a wider area above trying to squeeze into a bottleneck. It also has a high drop at one side due to the tunnel they have there

 

[deedle]

No. The Police iirc submitted a report outlining the circumstances awaiting a decision to charge andthe advice from the Crown was there was insufficient evidence apparently. The Police report the circumstances. The PF or Crown decide whether or not to proceed.

Just because Santos was charged doesn't mean that the PF will proceed.

Essentially that would mean police did not charge Brown and Griffiths but wanted advice from the CPO on whether or not to do so but decided to charge the Danes without waiting on advice from the CPO.

We have no way of knowing how many incidents are treated similarly to the Celtic players but we do know that one Danish player and a steward have been charged.

 

[Bobby Russell]

Nichola's natzi storm troopers. Absolute cretins and not just at football. Anybody thats witnessed the way they treat loyalists at parades compared to the softly softly approach to republicans.

 

[deedle]

We’re being asked to believe:

1. The area allocated to away fans at Parkhead is inherently dangerous from several perspectives.

2. FC Copenhagen fans have a notorious reputation.

3. The response of police and stewards was proportionate and appropriate to the level of anticipated disorder. In other words, the situation would have been worse had they not acted in this way.

4. FC Copenhagen players behaved differently to players of other teams who achieved a famous victory.

5. The decision to charge two Danes - one a player - is sensible.

6. There is no bias within Police Scotland (even tacitly or subconsciously) and no political influence whatsoever (some observers of how sectarian language is treated will raise eyebrows here).


Few on this forum accept this interpretation. There are major problems with Police Scotland, just as there are with the prosecution service and the entire criminal justice system in this country. Indeed, this extends to other key areas like health and education.

There is the unmistakable stench of politicisation and double standards.

 

[oldgregg]

@Sir Sasa Papac - I think your tone is a bit harsh tbh. I'm doing my best to try and give people the full facts. I've been speaking during the day to people who were there and in the thick of it but never mind, I know nothing.

This might help you some more understand why the police did what they did at the second goal. It is a video of the aftermath of Copenhagen's first goal and the "imaginary bad behaviour" I made up
(found on a timmy vlog via a Copenhagen forum.) It should start at the right time. If it doesn't, skip to 11:25 of the video.

So you'll see the first goal and the massive surge forward in their crowd caused by their players getting into the fans.

If you don't think that is something the police should be trying to prevent from happening again, you're sadly wrong.

There are no excuses to make and no reason for contrition. Something dangerous in a stadium happened and they did what they could to stop it happening again.

I've answered a lot of questions but still nobody has answered mine - if that was a young bear at the front who was getting crushed would you want the police to take action to stop it / blame them if they didn't? Perhaps you will.

I love the bit at 10.04 when the tim says 3-1 Then the daft prick next to him can't figure out how many fingers required for that

 

[Bigbluebear]

Apparently the police had bother outside the ground prior to the match with the green brigade involved, who were throwing flares at horses. Don't know if it also involved Copenhagen fans.

Not sure if mentioned elsewhere on this thread.

 

[TynesideTrueBlue]

I’ve got absolutely no respect for the polis the kunt should never of been man handling the player after he scored the goal and it’s not the first time it’s happened either it’s happened to our players at the shithole.
The amount of polis and stewards at that corner is a joke hopefully sense will prevail and nothing will come of it apart from asking why the polis is getting involved manhandling players.

 

[Todd The Prod]

You can't answer my question because you know that if a bear got injured and the police did nothing you'd be the first to be up in arms about it. <edit just seen your other comment on the vid>

It's not patter for the bin - it's a serious concern at that particular stadium both outside and inside (particularly in our section downstairs - been there as a fan and at work in crushes and it's fucking terrible). Someone already died there at a Scotland game because of the unsafe design and it's a matter of time before it happens again. Hopefully not one of us or your comment will come back to haunt you.

Maybe you're right that it is futile for the police to get involved, but if they do nothing and someone ends up getting hurt they will be criticised more than if they try to do something. I don't see how keeping the players out of the crowd ruins the experience for anyone though. The fans don't need to jump 10 rows forward and crush their fellow fans at the front to make it better. The players don't need to be in the crowd to make it better. All it does is create a risk for safety of players and fans. Yes there's a goal, it's important, we're all excited but FFS you don't need people to potentially get hurt because of it.

You are right as well that it is not a matter of course for police to have to put hands on a player because in the vast majority of games you don't see players running right into the fans. Sometimes they do get caught in the moment though. It's not something that can be trained for or something that they want. They want the players to do what they were told to before the game and within the Laws of the Game. Stay on the pitch.

With all due respect, If like you say, and therefore the police say, that there is such a “risk” at that stadium due to the poor design, layout or any other means, and, like you say, a fan has already died there, then, Police Scotland, and the authorities that supply the stadium certificates to allow matches to be played there, should be held accountable for knowing the dangers and risks, knowing the potential consequences of something going wrong, and idly standing by and doing nothing about it.

If the risks are as you say, that stadium should either be:

- Shut down
- Remain open, with a reduced capacity to mitigate the risks aforementioned.

Doing anything other than the 2 above scenarios, is negligence and if anyone were to be injured or die in that stadium, there should be a push to have every single person who knew the risks involved, and done absolutely nothing about them, to face jail time.

 

[Commentator]

Slo mo video

polis.MOV

drive.google.com

I can't get that to play, Ed. Has it been sabotaged?
Edit. I see Ed's post now edited to reflect this.

 

[Todd The Prod]

Look at the number of them spewing out of that tunnel. Why aren't they located around the pitch guarding the real criminals who have a history of pitch invasions, missile throwing, terrorist chanting, pyro and illicit banners.

If they were actually doing their job, that place wouldn’t even exist today for obvious reasons.

Everyone knows it, the evidence is there but the police don’t want to upset the poor wee Irish lambs.

Fucking sickening.

 

[Hateley's Versace Shirt]

For me proof that Police Scotland is politicised is there for all to see. Police Scotland are always pleading poverty regarding their funding but they find money to have the police sign on their vehicles in gaelic.

I shudder to think of the costs involved in this for signage that can only be read by 1.7% of the population. How many vehicles have the force?

Who decided to do this and is it a cost effective way to spend public money and police resources?

For me this was a political decision by the SNP and Police Scotland have complied.

The SNP must have forced it on Scotrail too, every station has two signs one in English and one in gaelic, again what did this cost and is it cost effective for 1.7% of the population to read.

 

[Todd The Prod]

No problem, happy to try and put some of this Lawwell/Sturgeon's SS Natzi jackboot stormtrooper pish to bed. There's a lot of people taking what happened in the context of the short 5 second video of the goal celebrations and not knowing the whole story behind the prematch and what had led up to it. Let's just say there were a lot of sighs of relief when we drew Leverkusen and not this mob coming here again.

When I say fans, these stewards were apparently more like their ultras with a kevlar vest given the steward tabbard pparently. Not from a professional stewarding company like we have traveling with us (although ours may also be bears, but at least they'd be professional and not obstructive to the local cops)

If there's a risk players are coming onto the track or to approach the crowd or of the crowd getting over onto the track they do usually get an instruction to go out and try to stop it happening.

The problem people have that you seem to be missing here is that while what you say makes sense, and we can all reasonably agree with it, what you cannot deny is that there seems to be one rule for them and another for the rest of us.

The numerous examples of such have been listed already in this thread, that is what’s pissing folk off, and that’s why so many of us are so disenfranchised with Police Scotland, because quite frankly, from the outside looking in, its as though you make it up as you go along.

I’ve close relatives in the Police, and going by what they tell me, there is most definitely pressure from above not to upset the scum and to toe the SNP line or else.

 

[Jaws II]

We’re being asked to believe:

1. The area allocated to away fans at Parkhead is inherently dangerous from several perspectives.

2. FC Copenhagen fans have a notorious reputation.

3. The response of police and stewards was proportionate and appropriate to the level of anticipated disorder. In other words, the situation would have been worse had they not acted in this way.

4. FC Copenhagen players behaved differently to players of other teams who achieved a famous victory.

5. The decision to charge two Danes - one a player - is sensible.

6. There is no bias within Police Scotland (even tacitly or subconsciously) and no political influence whatsoever (some observers of how sectarian language is treated will raise eyebrows here).


Few on this forum accept this interpretation. There are major problems with Police Scotland, just as there are with the prosecution service and the entire criminal justice system in this country. Indeed, this extends to other key areas like health and education.

There is the unmistakable stench of politicisation and double standards.

well said mate.

the excuses from Jorg on this thread are feeble and when you see them listed, laughable.

 

[Flyingwinger]

Plod with the gold cap got knocked over, probably got his trousers dirty, pride dented, incident captured on tv, seen by millions of people. Then the player is charged, you just could not make it up. Seen more action at the bus stop on a Saturday Night involving a couple of pensioners. Plod nowadays gets involved in the most tedious incidents possible, for Christ sake shake it off dust yourself down and get on with your real job. Tell me anywhere that doesn’t have a crowd surge, pop concerts the lot. If there is a concern there should be no safety certificate issued, or cut the crowd down further in that area..

 

[Davester]

People on here saying it's paranoia, us going on about SNP run police. It's a fact! The government of this country quite simply need the mentally challenged/republican/Catholic/nationalist demographic to keep them in power. They need to stay in power to get any chance of reaching the promised land of independence ( no laughing). If you critically require that demographic to maintain political power, you'll bend over backwards to keep said community onside.That includes silence on paedophilia, lost evidence, light touch policing, demonisation of opponents i.e us. To me that's really very simple. That's politics. Folk on here laughing at it, baffle me.

 

[lou riccios chipshop]

My "initial shite" if you check back to Post 138 was "At their first goal there was a surge forward which caused a bit of a crush with fans rushing down from behind although nobody got onto the pitch. Some of the stewards ended up physically fighting with the police and had to be removed and at least one I know of was arrested. For the second goal, again the players came off the pitch - going against the instructions they get before the match - and they were trying to stop that happening again and that's when the Inspector got decked."

I never once mentioned 'crowd disturbance' or the fans fighting with anyone. As I said, a bit of a crush.

The stewards (not official or trained stewards) were non compliant with the police and Celtic stewards all night.

After the crush at the first goal, the guys who were there have tried to stop that happening again by keeping the players on the pitch (which the second goalscorer tried to circumvent and get into the fans again). The inspector tried to get between him and the stand and got knocked over by the team mate. The other players were forcibly moved off the track back onto the pitch where they should be. This was done by police because the Copenhagen stewards who were there were not cooperative and the Celtic stewards largely were keeping the fans in the stand, leaving police to control the track.

What do you think would happen if there were no police or stewards there? Probably fans on the track/pitch, swamping players and possibly home fans on too. You might not like the police and you might not understand what is done or the rationale for it but that doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do.

Also if you want to believe Parkhead is a safe stadium and doesn't require some additional level of policing and stewarding so be it. I think it's a deathtrap and someone (hopefully not a bear) will end up seriously hurt.

You said 'massive' surge.

 

[Blue Goose]

Essentially that would mean police did not charge Brown and Griffiths but wanted advice from the CPO on whether or not to do so but decided to charge the Danes without waiting on advice from the CPO.

We have no way of knowing how many incidents are treated similarly to the Celtic players but we do know that one Danish player and a steward have been charged.

FWIW both incidents are essentially different. One,involving Brown and Griffiths was inciteful behaviour, the Copenhagen player assault. What I would say is that the Police would not put their head above the parapet if they thought that the threshold of evidence wasn't sufficient. As I have said earlier, a fiscal may look at the whole thing and decide a warning will suffice. Conversely they may cite him for trial. The Police will also not only have stadium CCTV but will obtain, via a warrant, TV footage that we are not privvy to. I think if we are being honest the player has ran full pelt at the cop as he had grabbed his mate. There's no excuse for that likewise there is no excuse for the two cops pushing the players as they are leaving the area. Copenhagen may complain as a club to both UEFA and Police Scotland but I doubt it as they would be highlighting failings on their own part. I don't think that anyone can apportion blame to one side. There's a lot of culpability by both imo.

 

[Davester]

I’ve got absolutely no respect for the polis the kunt should never of been man handling the player after he scored the goal and it’s not the first time it’s happened either it’s happened to our players at the shithole.
The amount of polis and stewards at that corner is a joke hopefully sense will prevail and nothing will come of it apart from asking why the polis is getting involved manhandling players.

Let's all remember the Legia Warsaw game at Ibrox. Away end full of steroid skinheads, let off dozens of flares. The enclosure bears and Broomloan standers are baying at the cops in the corner to get over and do something. Eventually, they saunter over. When the smoke begins to clear, they're huckling a bear out the stadium to a crescendo of boos. Comical.

 

[giogaddi]

There are plenty of us on here. There is no agenda and it's possibly the most cringeworthy shite you read on here, to think that a cop is going to deliberately go out and manhandle an opponent of Celtic because Peter Lawwell or Nicola Sturgeon ordered us to. Even the guys who support that lot aren't that way inclined.

FWIW I've had orders during an OF before to deal with a certain one of their 'loose cannon' players and make 100% sure if he got ordered off that he went off the quietly, no reactions to Rangers players or the bears in the Enclosure. It was during Walter's second spell in charge and I got to watch the last while of the game from the tunnel and was on Setanta sports at the end. But hey, I didn't enjoy it I was too busy implementing an agenda.

Interesting post.

So who decides that the police deploy so many officers to that side of the ground? Why is it so heavily policed compared to the other corner for example? Why is it only at that particular area of that particular stadium that footballers are continually manhandled by police/stewards?

Also, why did police officers just stand and watch legia warsaw fans light numerous pyro (the game was actually halted!) and literally do nothing about it? Would they stand and watch the Union Bears section do the same?

Why are different supports policed differently and who/where does this direction come from?

 

[Dunnybear]

Whoever the police officer/s are that thinks this was a crime should not be police officers. Sack them before they give Police Scotland an even worse reputation.

 

[honeycandyapples]

You said 'massive' surge.

Not like plod to alter his statement

 

[oleg059]

the copper clearly trips as the player has both his arms out sideways not even touching him embarassing the fat idiot is even trying to press charges.there should be a full scale inquiry in to exactly what the police were up to.it was pre planned because as soon as the away fans cheer the cops are out like a shot.yet not one comes out when the scum scored.

Notice the come out and face the players not the crowd

 

[giogaddi]

I don't want to give him a hard time. I'm sure others will. He's good enough to answer my question and I don't doubt what he says. I didn't watch the game last night so I can only go with what I've seen on here and in the news. I've seen videos of them walking to the park and in the stadium. They had good numbers and I would imagine they've got ultras/hooligans in amongst them.

Copenhagen are no angels. But neither are Osijek and they were given the freedom of the PRW. There is a huge issue with how our support are policed compared to others, the Scottish Cup Final really should have been a watershed moment and we should have taken them to the cleaners. What I witnessed that day from the police was an utter disgrace. Football fans (especially ours) are 2nd class citizens in their eyes.

 

[The Golden God]

Can i ask how Police Scotland managed to not noticed Osijek ultras walking down PRW attacking people until they were a bawhair from the stadium?

Was there too many police located at other places aiming for easier targets? ala a guy having a bear outsie?

 

[RoyalBurghGer72]

Fair play to @JorgAlbertz for at least trying to explain things. I do think youve opened more questions rather than actually given answers tho.
If that area of the ground is unsafe then why is it still open?
If even a guy like me (no social media) knows Copenhagen have troublemakers then why arent these guys held somewhere else?
Why is commonsense not applied when players run towards their own fans? As any fan or player will tell you, that feeling of scoring a late winner is indescribable to anyone who isnt a football fan, fans in any away section know the risks of jumping over seats and some see it as a badge of honour to get bruised doing so. Rarely are kids at the front of this.

 

[giogaddi]

The fact that charges have been brought is a huge embarrassment. Is he a higher ranking officer? He's obviously bristling because he's been made to look stupid. I'm sure the charges will be thrown out.

From reading subsequent posts from @JorgAlbertz, it's interesting that area of the piggery is deemed to be dangerous and that the reason for the manhandling is to prevent injury. If that is the case that area of the ground should be closed until they can guarantee safety. It also makes the non policing of the Legia fans even more baffling.

 

[Joe 90]

People on here saying it's paranoia, us going on about SNP run police. It's a fact! The government of this country quite simply need the mentally challenged/republican/Catholic/nationalist demographic to keep them in power. They need to stay in power to get any chance of reaching the promised land of independence ( no laughing). If you critically require that demographic to maintain political power, you'll bend over backwards to keep said community onside.That includes silence on paedophilia, lost evidence, light touch policing, demonisation of opponents i.e us. To me that's really very simple. That's politics. Folk on here laughing at it, baffle me.

This all day long is the bigger picture being played out in Scotland under the snp.

 

[Joe 90]

JorgAlbertz has tried to explain away the incident from the police point of view but to me he fails to see the wood from the trees.
Rangers fans without doubt are treated differently to any other supporter, that is as clear as the nose on your face and it’s because the police force are politicised and the snp are in bed with the republicans and we as a support are the enemy to them.
Celtic fans being allowed to jump up and down on a police van just sums it all up. They are trampling all over police Scotland knowing nothing will be done.
Even as hibs fans were attacking rangers fans in the disabled section plod stood and filmed the rangers end! Where do you start with this.
I don’t see an end to it unless the snp are kicked out or Hollyrood is shut down.
We could do with an independent investigation from Westminster into how Scotland is being run by the snp, however politically sensitive it may be.
It’s clear from what jorgAlbertz has said that police Scotland know Celtic Park is a death trap but are not doing anything about it so that they don’t upset their masters. This is unacceptable.