Professor Brian Howieson's book on the Rangers administration events

Bordersbear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I have a document in my hand.
That will nail those holy Willie's on the other side of the city to the floor
Nailed to the floor was never ever relating to us on football terms. It is a political or business term, If your feet are nailed to the floor you are in a situation you cannot escape.

Reid's grubby little paws are all over this along with Manus Joseph Fullerton.
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
Nailed to the floor was never ever relating to us on football terms. It is a political or business term, If your feet are nailed to the floor you are in a situation you cannot escape.

Reid's grubby little paws are all over this along with Manus Joseph Fullerton.
Nailed to the floor was never ever relating to us on football terms. It is a political or business term, If your feet are nailed to the floor you are in a situation you cannot escape.

Reid's grubby little paws are all over this along with Manus Joseph Fullerton.
Simply not true
 

Tim Hunter

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
then changed them back so that our punishment couldn’t be replicated on someone else.

Is that true? I can't remember due to so much going on at the time.
Yes it is, I've already telt ye.:p
This link has been posted previously, very informative. It is well worth reading and saving.
 

Tim Hunter

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I have a document in my hand.
That will nail those holy Willie's on the other side of the city to the floor
I am definitely not being argumentative here, but it is my recollection that you have mixed several, unrelated remarks about Rangers, by the mhankies.
"document in my hand", "holy Willies" and ", "will nail them to the floor. "
are all familiar, but not joined as you have said. Googling parts of your statement gives absoutely no results whatsoever.
My main recollection from those early days (as dodgy as the next man's), is reading in a newspaper, John Reid stating that, "I am compiling a document that will blow Scottish football apart."
I then wondered what on earth he was referring to, since nothing was then obvious.
With hindsight he was surely referring to the EBTs, he was the instigator of all that subsequently transpired.
It has not been possible for some years to find any record of this ever happening. Have I got some sort of false memory of this?
 

Coisty09

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
How does it stack up against the other 60,000 books written by beggars on the subject?

Seriously, that period is over, lessons have been learned and we are stronger for it. I won't read another word on the episode.
Unless people realize that Kyle Fox is this lot mark II, lessons may not have been learnt.
 
Last edited:

deedle

Well-Known Member
I am definitely not being argumentative here, but it is my recollection that you have mixed several, unrelated remarks about Rangers, by the mhankies.
"document in my hand", "holy Willies" and ", "will nail them to the floor. "
are all familiar, but not joined as you have said. Googling parts of your statement gives absoutely no results whatsoever.
My main recollection from those early days (as dodgy as the next man's), is reading in a newspaper, John Reid stating that, "I am compiling a document that will blow Scottish football apart."
I then wondered what on earth he was referring to, since nothing was then obvious.
With hindsight he was surely referring to the EBTs, he was the instigator of all that subsequently transpired.
It has not been possible for some years to find any record of this ever happening. Have I got some sort of false memory of this?
I’m pretty sure Reid was alluding to referees. Reid was in charge when the media helped stoked up the campaign against them, leading to the departures of Dallas and McDonald and ultimately the strike.


Celtic knew all about the problems Murray faced following the 2008 financial crash. However, they didn’t have to do anything directly.

A post on a Celtic forum in 2010 mentioned ‘hidden contracts’ and rule violations, so they were well primed to jump into action when Whyte put the club in administration.
 

Bluefin221

Administrator
Staff member
Alarm bells should have been ringing when the club's bankers insisted that Murray stepped down and John McClelland was installed as chairman to sort out the massive debt we'd accumulated.

They were ringing for some fans. Too many others were blinded by the money we were throwing around. At one point the Rangers debt - without any tax case liability - stood at around £80 million, prompting the McClelland appointment. The success under McLeish at a time when the club was undergoing massive financial pain was very much unexpected.

We got the debt down to £6 million at one point. Then Murray came back and we saw that at least quadruple. If I remember correctly we were financially ok up until the late 90s. The failure to secure 10 was the point for me where Murray went into overdrive with his reckless management and where we saw things get completely out of control. It was almost certainly a reaction to Murray's ego taking the hit of missing out on 10iar. From that point on we became far too reckless. That was the start of our downfall.

Murray always found mugs like Joe Lewis (£40m) and Dave King (£20m) to bail him out of his recklessness. It's no surprise he began to believe he could walk on water and something would always turn up. His running of the club from 1997 to 2002 set the tone for everything that was to follow - losses of £100m in five years. He was, to be blunt, a shit businessman who relied on a deal always coming along at the right time until his luck ran out.
 

Tiny_Kilby_Loyal

Well-Known Member
I wonder why DC Thomson pulled out and why they won't tell him why. I would speculate that the book was not going down the path they wanted.

I would certainly agree with him that the story is bigger than just the last 10 years and the story pre-dates the arrival of Whyte. Murray placed the club in serious jeopardy and the actions that lead to 2012 started years before it.
This.
Murray was fully responsible for the shambles.
But seems to have avoided much criticism over it.
 

Tiny_Kilby_Loyal

Well-Known Member
Really? There’s a difference between it happening and accelerating towards it by not paying normal tax and wrecking the club in general.
Some mental comments on this thread
It was Murray who began the debacle.He saw what was coming (his hubris caused our inability to pay taxes and fines).The guy was upto his eyes in debt and mortgaged Rangers to the hilt.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
Minty was an arsehole who thought he knew better than everyone else and who had a reputation of screwing people he did business with. He loved a deal and the EBT wheeze was right up his alley. I'm not sure they came after us because we were Rangers. They may have done it because it was Murray.
One name you need to remember when thinking of this.
John feckin Reid.
He of “teaching George Galloway the whole IRA songbook” fame.
 
Last edited:

jmac312

Well-Known Member
Murray always found mugs like Joe Lewis (£40m) and Dave King (£20m) to bail him out of his recklessness. It's no surprise he began to believe he could walk on water and something would always turn up. His running of the club from 1997 to 2002 set the tone for everything that was to follow - losses of £100m in five years. He was, to be blunt, a shit businessman who relied on a deal always coming along at the right time until his luck ran out.
Scotlands Trump?
My old man used to watch Ross County when Rangers wernt playing and knew plenty folk running the club. I think I'm right in saying County were on their way up to the SPL the close season the vote took place. Roy Macgregor the County owner was hesitant at voting against Rangers, as we were one of the mega attractions of a hard fought promotion from the lower leagues. I'm told Lawell drove to Dingwall to put pressure on him to exclude us. At the time was the story not that we would only go to Div1 just for a year ? Anyway I'm told it was a decision Macgregor later regretted.
So, yes Celtic were definitely up to their neck in our troubles.

My old man never set foot in County's ground since. I'm following his lead.
 

jmac312

Well-Known Member
This.
Murray was fully responsible for the shambles.
But seems to have avoided much criticism over it.
It seems thats only a fraction of the story, the easy bit to follow. Its quite clear from this thread the devil is in the detail and there were many more players out there hell -bent on exploiting Murray's weaknesses.
 

Theportyunionjack

Well-Known Member
He states the football club and the corporate identity are different, he believes the club continued, to this day. He will be pilloried.
The guy's an academic: this is a standard interpretation.

I rember in a business entities lecture when I was a student some sevco asked the aussie professor the question. He advised it very likely came under 'Goodwill' and looked at him like he was a moron. Correctly, obviously.
 

Theportyunionjack

Well-Known Member
It was the duty of the SPL board to decide whether to accept the transfer of Rangers"share" to the new owners, as directors they were not allowed to reject this, since it would have significantly decreased the SPL income. The SPL rules were changed to allow the clubs a vote to reject the transfer of Rangers "share" to the new owners. Then changed them back again after Rangers were excluded.
The SFA advanced Hearts their prize money to avoid an insolvency event, they simply kept Rangers prize money, and distributed it amongst themselves.
The 5 way agreement contained further unwarranted and illegal punishment for the club.
It was not their intention that Rangers would survive, sell out Saturday was just around the corner.
Hibs were liquidated in the early 90s. That's the precedent that want followed. Why?

Add the transfer ban which eas a totally made up, outwith he rules punishment for rangers that was struck down by the court of session and then, after being dine so by the court of session, removed on Rangers shows what an absolute farce and witch hunt went on.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
It was Murray who began the debacle.He saw what was coming (his hubris caused our inability to pay taxes and fines).The guy was upto his eyes in debt and mortgaged Rangers to the hilt.

Not entirely true. The mortgaging bit. The hubris is 100% spot on.

During the 90s we were financially stable. We weren't overpaying for players. We were benefiting from the start of the Champions League era. We didnt really have serious money worries. Missing out on 10iar was a major problem for Murray. Its absolutely no coincidence that the reaction was to go out and hire a high profile manager and to throw money at high profile players. Flo, Kanchelskis and Hendry between them cost the thick end of £25million. Our spending had become so problematic that the banks had to step in and urge some financial constraint. Murray didnt operate in isolation and the timing of the bank intervention wasn't a coincidence. For far too long Gavin Masterton at Bank of Scotland was allowed to make absolutely bonkers lending decisions. Masterton essentially offered Murray whatever finance the club felt it needed. Murray didnt mortgage Rangers. He simply indulged the offer of serious credit by a Bank of Scotland executive who was as guilty of hubris as he was.

There also felt more than a little bit of hubris in the use of EBTs. A questionable solicitor with a side line in adult films was never the most convincing of tax experts. But Murray thought that he knew best and that he was smarter than everybody else. It's a trait common in businessmen who have high profile failures. Their arrogance simply doesnt allow them to entertain the notion of failure or to give consideration to the idea of risk. Murray simply didnt think that tax avoidance was a risky route to pursue.
 

Hillheadbear

Goooooooooaaaaaaaaaaallllllllll
It seems thats only a fraction of the story, the easy bit to follow. Its quite clear from this thread the devil is in the detail and there were many more players out there hell -bent on exploiting Murray's weaknesses.

The structural weakness of MIH was well known and much commented on at the time on FF. It is inconceivable that people in the mhedia and at the SFA/SPL didn't know about it.

Now, maybe they were still taken in by the Murray 'aura', maybe they didn't want to believe that the whole thing could come crashing down one day or maybe many of them were a bit scared of Murray so nothing was ever said or done until after the crash when the 'told you so' mob came out in force.

But we need to separate that from the 'pile on' that happening after the shit hit the fan. The reality is that the footballing authorities and the other clubs - aided and abetted by the mhedia - did their level best to kill us. That they failed says everything about us as a support and is a credit to those Bears - like Dave King - who have brought us back.

We must never forget or forgive. Always remember, the rest of Scottish football hates us. They will stick the boot into us even if it goes against their best interests as we have seen multiple times with SPFL votes. We owe Scottish football nothing and we owe the other clubs nothing. We should always look to the interests of Rangers irrespective of what that means to Scottish football.

And for those who criticise the Board on here, just remember where we were and who has brought us back. Our Board isn't perfect but its a lot better than where we were and, unlike Murray, we know it's composed of Bears.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
Scotlands Trump?
My old man used to watch Ross County when Rangers wernt playing and knew plenty folk running the club. I think I'm right in saying County were on their way up to the SPL the close season the vote took place. Roy Macgregor the County owner was hesitant at voting against Rangers, as we were one of the mega attractions of a hard fought promotion from the lower leagues. I'm told Lawell drove to Dingwall to put pressure on him to exclude us. At the time was the story not that we would only go to Div1 just for a year ? Anyway I'm told it was a decision Macgregor later regretted.
So, yes Celtic were definitely up to their neck in our troubles.

My old man never set foot in County's ground since. I'm following his lead.

Opportunism from Lawell. He saw the opportunity for Celtic to obliterate Rangers. Scottish football chairmen were promised the earth. Far too many of them believed him.
 

Timardim

Well-Known Member
John Reid was the architect , along with other Celtc men ( Lawell in particular )and other Rangers haters , he used his position to convince already eager individuals to prosecute " I'll nail Rangers to the floor " are the words quoted and it should never be forgotten what a vindictive hate filled horrible wee bigot he was/is....
 

muttley

Well-Known Member
Hibs were liquidated in the early 90s. That's the precedent that want followed. Why?

Add the transfer ban which eas a totally made up, outwith he rules punishment for rangers that was struck down by the court of session and then, after being dine so by the court of session, removed on Rangers shows what an absolute farce and witch hunt went on.

A certain Lord Carloway, whose name is synonymous with rulings against Rangers during that time, tried to inflict the illegal transfer ban. I believe he was also on the Scottish Court of Session Panel which ruled in favour of HMRC against Rangers, who had prior lost two tax cases against us, and which finally later went to the Supreme Court.?
 

insanicdrunk

Well-Known Member
Hibs were liquidated in the early 90s. That's the precedent that want followed. Why?

Add the transfer ban which eas a totally made up, outwith he rules punishment for rangers that was struck down by the court of session and then, after being dine so by the court of session, removed on Rangers shows what an absolute farce and witch hunt went on.

Was that the transfer ban that they fuked up and had to bring forward the *shutting* of the transfer window? IIRC the ban was up the day before the last transfer window in the ban closed and they brought the date forward.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
Scotlands Trump?
My old man used to watch Ross County when Rangers wernt playing and knew plenty folk running the club. I think I'm right in saying County were on their way up to the SPL the close season the vote took place. Roy Macgregor the County owner was hesitant at voting against Rangers, as we were one of the mega attractions of a hard fought promotion from the lower leagues. I'm told Lawell drove to Dingwall to put pressure on him to exclude us. At the time was the story not that we would only go to Div1 just for a year ? Anyway I'm told it was a decision Macgregor later regretted.
So, yes Celtic were definitely up to their neck in our troubles.

My old man never set foot in County's ground since. I'm following his lead.
I agree here.
Not just county though.
Each and every one of the back stabbing scumbag clubs deserves the same treatment.
Not a penny more directly from me since admin.
One blight on that is the Ramsdens cup final in Edinburgh.
No away grounds and nothing at Hampden.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
A certain Lord Carloway, whose name is synonymous with rulings against Rangers during that time, tried to inflict the illegal transfer ban. I believe he was also on the Scottish Court of Session Panel which ruled in favour of HMRC against Rangers, who had prior lost two tax cases against us, and which finally later went to the Supreme Court.?
The problem here is that the first two tribunals rulings for Rangers were judged on financial law.
The others were where “common sense” was the deciding factor.
It’s probably the one and only time you’ll here that “common sense” was used to decide court proceedings.
If anything, the opposite applies.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
John Reid was the architect , along with other Celtc men ( Lawell in particular )and other Rangers haters , he used his position to convince already eager individuals to prosecute " I'll nail Rangers to the floor " are the words quoted and it should never be forgotten what a vindictive hate filled horrible wee bigot he was/is....
Unfortunately, it’s still “is”.
 

Tiny_Kilby_Loyal

Well-Known Member
It seems thats only a fraction of the story, the easy bit to follow. Its quite clear from this thread the devil is in the detail and there were many more players out there hell -bent on exploiting Murray's weaknesses.
And he let them,he fleeced us for years.
 

muttley

Well-Known Member
The problem here is that the first two tribunals rulings for Rangers were judged on financial law.
The others were where “common sense” was the deciding factor.
It’s probably the one and only time you’ll here that “common sense” was used to decide court proceedings.
If anything, the opposite applies.

I know what you're saying, mate. Legal rulings or verdicts are supposed to be decided on specific legal precedent or even technicalities. That particular " common sense " ruling is the first and probably last time it'll ever be seen in a Scottish Court.
 

Gauche.

Well-Known Member
A grim time to talk or think about for any Rangers fan.
Has it ever been confirmed who exactly was making the decisions at HMRC during this time?
Surely there must have been a chain of command?
Have HMRC since went after any other company the way they did us for use of EBT? I remember a number quoted at the time that thousands of companies the length and breadth of the UK were using them.
 

Timardim

Well-Known Member
A grim time to talk or think about for any Rangers fan.
Has it ever been confirmed who exactly was making the decisions at HMRC during this time?
Surely there must have been a chain of command?
Have HMRC since went after any other company the way they did us for use of EBT? I remember a number quoted at the time that thousands of companies the length and breadth of the UK were using them.
Including celtc....Juhnino
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
Absolutely! The club was clearly in very bad nick for an asset stripper like Whyte to be interested in the first place. That doesn’t make Whyte blameless I doubt he would have looked if the club had been healthy in the first place.

Murray carries the can for me almost as much as the people who took over.
Strange to think that Murray's knighthood is for services to Scottish business,talk about irony. Alarm bells were ringing for me when we paid 12million for For Andre Flo,I knew then we were getting in far too deep.
 

douzpwa

Well-Known Member
Pretty clear, his credentials as a business academic his observations, in depth research, knowledge and conclusions from a non bias Professor of Organisational leadership and Associate Dean of business engagement is just another intelligent voice amongst others that makes clear our club did not die!

His unbiased conclusion trounces those foghorn mouthpieces from pundits to media, from tabloids to toilet paper writing platform social media idividuals to mass audience with small minded brain cells easily manipulated by a venomous vile hatred of our club!

led them to jump without looking, leapfrog the scenario and ignore any other outcome or have enough restraint, knowledge or education regarding our complex situation proclaiming we were dead based on hate filled newspaper headlines and their new found master of ebt and tax educational credentials!

They forgot to check our pulse blinded by the red rage mist and hate that by the time the truth hit them they didn't want to believe it and became even more deluded and continue to deny the facts, the truth and that we survived!

It's killing them that the proper organisations and others outwith their circle see, know and recognise that we survived as the same club then, now and will be forever!
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
It was Murray who began the debacle.He saw what was coming (his hubris caused our inability to pay taxes and fines).The guy was upto his eyes in debt and mortgaged Rangers to the hilt.

That's not the point that was made though. If you are looking for a root cause it was Murray.

However suggesting Whyte just did what Murray would have did is a tad mental. Murray is responsible for selling to Whyte and starting the chain reaction.

Whyte was a different kind of financial vandal, a real crook.
 

Tiny_Kilby_Loyal

Well-Known Member
That's not the point that was made though. If you are looking for a root cause it was Murray.

However suggesting Whyte just did what Murray would have did is a tad mental. Murray is responsible for selling to Whyte and starting the chain reaction.

Whyte was a different kind of financial vandal, a real crook.
Yea,I see what you’re getting at now.
However,Murray knew exactly who Whyte was,having done business with him and his father previously.
Murray knew exactly what he was doing.
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
Yea,I see what you’re getting at now.
However,Murray knew exactly who Whyte was,having done business with him and his father previously.
Murray knew exactly what he was doing.
I fundamentally agree Whyte never duped Murray-he knew what he was doing when he sold to him.

What was Murray’s mantra? I will only sell to someone who can take the club forward.

Anyone believing Murray thought Whyte was that guy needs their head examined
 

Tiny_Kilby_Loyal

Well-Known Member
I fundamentally agree Whyte never duped Murray-he knew what he was doing when he sold to him.

What was Murray’s mantra? I will only sell to someone who can take the club forward.

Anyone believing Murray thought Whyte was that guy needs their head examined
Absolutely,Murray was only concerned about saving David Murray.
 

justice

Well-Known Member
to this day I’d like to know how Whyte was allowed to buy the club by the powers that be in Scottish football.

The whole point of the fit and proper person test is to ensure shysters like Whyte don’t get their hands on clubs and that the best interests of the club and its fans are looked after.

There was a clear dereliction of duty. Murray obviously had a gun at his head from the bank and would’ve sold to anyone who was willing to take it off his hands..
 

Aragorn

Well-Known Member
Assume this is the same guy who was giving a lecture at Stirling Uni recently?
Assume this is the same guy who was giving a lecture at Stirling Uni recently?

It’s on the 10th of this month…I think a rep from FF and plenty of Bears should go along and listen to what the guy says.
 

Timardim

Well-Known Member

Celtc paid Juninho £ 765,000 in an EBT, which they didn't declare to either the SFA or SPL. They weren't punished either for trying to hide the Juninho EBT from the football authorities.

Correct , as you see in the article they eventually declared it 3 years later after being given the chance to negotiate the tax and given the heads up by Reid that the HMRC were going after Rangers they had no choice other than to pay the tax they were never going to pay initially. Only Celtc would get away with this type of dealings and still remain untouchable...
 

rock lobster

Well-Known Member
Correct , as you see in the article they eventually declared it 3 years later after being given the chance to negotiate the tax and given the heads up by Reid that the HMRC were going after Rangers they had no choice other than to pay the tax they were never going to pay initially. Only Celtc would get away with this type of dealings and still remain untouchable...

The irony being that the SFA and SPL went after us for declaring up front our usage of EBT's, while Celtc hid the Juninho EBT, breaking the rules in the process, and were never punished.
 

derek145

Well-Known Member
It was the duty of the SPL board to decide whether to accept the transfer of Rangers"share" to the new owners, as directors they were not allowed to reject this, since it would have significantly decreased the SPL income. The SPL rules were changed to allow the clubs a vote to reject the transfer of Rangers "share" to the new owners. Then changed them back again after Rangers were excluded.
The SFA advanced Hearts their prize money to avoid an insolvency event, they simply kept Rangers prize money, and distributed it amongst themselves.
The 5 way agreement contained further unwarranted and illegal punishment for the club.
It was not their intention that Rangers would survive, sell out Saturday was just around the corner.
Stolen your post for use elsewhere
 

justice

Well-Known Member
Obviously he didn't do it simultaniously, He offered them the £12m trying to do a deal as they werre demanding £30m, HMRC refused so we went down the road of disputing it. HMRC saw that we were using MIH's scheme so came after us as well.

The reason he sold us for £1 came out in the court case against Whyte, in order that he'd be able to keep his other companies. Rangers were used as leverage against him and he selfishly chose his own businesses.

I'm not defending Murray in any of these posts, what I'm getting at is how HMRC acted in all of this. I think the only words of truth that ever came out of Whyte's mouth was that HMRC had told him they were going to appeal, appeal and appeal again until they got what they wanted. That's what they did. Where has is got them? Wasted a sh!t ton of public money to end up getting buttons in the end.
Even if it didn’t kill us, It got Celtic 8.75 virtually uncontested titles and runs at the CL money. They must be spewing that we’re back competing so soon. I hope karma gets them what they deserve… if it came via the FBI and huge damages for child molestation that would seem about right
 

justice

Well-Known Member
In all of this I keep coming back to the same thing. Our accounts and use of EBTs were approved & signed off by a big 4 accountancy practice. No-one at the time batted an eyelid until HMRC decided to retrospectively change the rules. So How was it our fault (we’re not an accountancy firm) and Why are they not liable for all the damage that was done?
 
Top