Proper hard (but also good) players?

archimedes

Well-Known Member
Is there such a thing any more?

I'm thinking this is what we need in the middle of the park, someone who takes no shit but also has the ability to control a game (a Souness type player - obviously not necessarily his level, maybe an Ian Ferguson?).

I hoped Ryan Jack would be that player, but if he's not on the treatment table he doesn't seem to be able to play that role.

Sands, while full of energy doesn't seem to fit the bill, Kamara, Aribo and Arfield don't either.
Davis can dictate play, but he's not dominant enough.

Who could we sign that could fill that role?

Any suggestions?
 

WinkieWATP

Well-Known Member
In general? Yes it is. Kovačić at Chelsea is the fist one that comes to mind.

For us I think Jack certainly is one.
Good technical footballer but I would not describe him as a tough tackler etc that the OP refers too.

Plus might just be out of our budget also.
 

El Chapo

Well-Known Member
Keane and Vieira were both outstanding players. It’s not something you really get these days when you look at the majority of top teams.
 

RabSpackman

Well-Known Member
The role just doesn’t exist any longer. Football is more & more about technique and ability… that’s what the FAs have been promoting in youth football for 20yrs now and you see it with the emerging talent.
Kids football is all about passing and control - that’s what the academies preach & practice. You just won’t get anywhere near a decent level if your game is in any way about tackling. The ball transition all happens from interceptions rather than going and taking it.

The concept of winning the physical battle to get the right & the space to play football is dying out.
The tackle to go and get the ball has always been part of football but it is becoming less prevalent.

I’m mixed about it - it’s nice to see the technique take over but I am definitely of a generation where a crunching tackle gets you on your feet.
 

WinkieWATP

Well-Known Member
The role just doesn’t exist any longer. Football is more & more about technique and ability… that’s what the FAs have been promoting in youth football for 20yrs now and you see it with the emerging talent.
Kids football is all about passing and control - that’s what the academies preach & practice. You just won’t get anywhere near a decent level if your game is in any way about tackling. The ball transition all happens from interceptions rather than going and taking it.

The concept of winning the physical battle to get the right & the space to play football is dying out.
The tackle to go and get the ball has always been part of football but it is becoming less prevalent.

I’m mixed about it - it’s nice to see the technique take over but I am definitely of a generation where a crunching tackle gets you on your feet.
Yet we have Alan Power hanging about the SPL like a bad smell. A fucking diddy that has zero footballing ability at all.
 

brain

Well-Known Member
Best chance of finding that kind of player now is probably African players or players of African descent in France/Belgium.
 

TheFrenchTank

Well-Known Member
Due to the nature of the modern-day game, proper hard players are a thing of the past. The slightest bit of contact, and someone goes down like a sack of crap or looks to the referee like a wounded animal wanting a card or a free kick off him.

The days of Hurlock, Souey, Dunc, and even a player like Amoruso or Gattuso are over.
 

RabSpackman

Well-Known Member
Yet we have Alan Power hanging about the SPL like a bad smell. A fucking diddy that has zero footballing ability at all.
It’ll take time to filter through, especially in the leagues like Scotland where there is a cultural bias towards having someone in the midfield who can “sort out” fancy opponents.

Possibly this takes until the current players in their 20s are coaching themselves.

Look at the EPL as an example though - the success of the top sides is all built on technique and speed.
 

BigTinder86

Well-Known Member
It’s not a hard/ dirty player we need.

It’s some who is physically powerful, is aggressive off the ball and on the ball, be that tackling, passing, closing down, forcing the play or driving the team forward and telling other players what to do and where to be.

We don’t have that.

I have been caned before for suggesting Ferguson, but that’s the closest there is in Scotland to it. Players that carry out this role at a higher level - Henderson, Declan Rice, Kovacic, Kalvin Phillips, Mctominay, Rodri, etc etc.
 
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Midfield General

Well-Known Member
The role just doesn’t exist any longer. Football is more & more about technique and ability… that’s what the FAs have been promoting in youth football for 20yrs now and you see it with the emerging talent.
Kids football is all about passing and control - that’s what the academies preach & practice. You just won’t get anywhere near a decent level if your game is in any way about tackling. The ball transition all happens from interceptions rather than going and taking it.

The concept of winning the physical battle to get the right & the space to play football is dying out.
The tackle to go and get the ball has always been part of football but it is becoming less prevalent.

I’m mixed about it - it’s nice to see the technique take over but I am definitely of a generation where a crunching tackle gets you on your feet.
Not to sure about that mate,I don't see much technique or ability in most of the teams we play in our league.We normally have to battle to show our better quality.
 

tumsheeheed

Well-Known Member
Think John Greig would definitely come into the category of hard man that could play and Souness you just don’t get players like those two anymore they’d be sent off every week now shame used to love Greigy timing his tackles to perfection reminded him when I met him of the time he broke Bobby Lennox,s leg in the penalty box at Ibrox he laughed and said ‘Aye and the ref gave a goal kick !’ Class .
 

Punpun

Well-Known Member
Not a dirty player by any means but Højbjerg from Spurs is the closest thing to that midfield general for me, classic Mourinho player

Dirtiness and late tackles have been stamped out almost fully, best dark arts to use in football now is the art of deception such as diving and the like, has been for nearly a decade now I’d say
 

347golfer

Well-Known Member
The role just doesn’t exist any longer. Football is more & more about technique and ability… that’s what the FAs have been promoting in youth football for 20yrs now and you see it with the emerging talent.
Kids football is all about passing and control - that’s what the academies preach & practice. You just won’t get anywhere near a decent level if your game is in any way about tackling. The ball transition all happens from interceptions rather than going and taking it.

The concept of winning the physical battle to get the right & the space to play football is dying out.
The tackle to go and get the ball has always been part of football but it is becoming less prevalent.

I’m mixed about it - it’s nice to see the technique take over but I am definitely of a generation where a crunching tackle gets you on your feet.
Post of the year 2022
 
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