Proper rail seats

Being a rather tall chap, standing is a great laugh for me.

90 minutes of getting moaned at by the short arses behind me.

I was forced to stand directly in front of the KP Loyal pillar in the old East Enclosure, and directly behind it if I was late and my spot was already claimed by another lanky bastard.
 
Rover tickets and anything other than 1:1 ratio is never going to be allowed in the UK. Clubs have fought long and hard enough just to get their current standing sections approved.
 
The fan groups really need to pile on the pressure on the board. They are happy to take our money but treating us disgracefuly. We only ask for what fans of other large clubs have. Safe standing, proper disabled facilities and properly maintained toilets.
 
The club quite literally do not care about us! They can send out all the fan engagement info they want and play at it, but ultimately we are not listened too as a support.

Pay your season ticket, shut your mouth and sometimes we’ll give you an away ticket :))

The fans are slowly but surely turning on this board.
 
vicbex said:
Terrible location for SS. For a start an area split down the middle is hopeless. Worse still we'd never see our UB displays on tv or see them in action.
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Who says the UB need to go there? Rather they didn't to be honest! Could do it in that section of the broomloan as well
 
djc1980 said:
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
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That’s why it’d have to be a designated area.
 
vicbex said:
Why are you opposed to it? 90% of the stadium will still be seated so it hardly affects anyone. Do you not think those that want to stand should have the choice?
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Not sure why you picked up on the fact that I was opposed to it when the crux of this post was highlighting the truly shameful way we treat our disabled. better facilities for disabled must come before railed stands by a country mile.

My post stands if railed seating improves their treatment then so good can come of it and it would then be a fair trade off.
 
giogaddi said:
Bottom sentence is the crux of it. There should be a dedicated section for those who wish to stand.

I'm not sure why the Rangers board obfuscate on this so much. I understand there are bigger priorities but they don't appear to have any appetite for installing a section, but won't come out and explicitly say it. If they have no intention of it then just say and put it to bed.
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Perhaps there is no evidence that the majority want it.
 
tazzabear said:
Perhaps there is no evidence that the majority want it.
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But there is definitely an appetite for it amongst a significant section of supporters. It should be about choice and a section should be installed for those who enjoy standing without hindering the view of fans who prefer to sit. I'm not aware of any other clubs taking a vote on it either. Why would a majority need to be in favour of it?
 
Terry Monroe 8&1/4 said:
I spoke with this with Jim Hannah and Kenny Scott 10 years ago I was saying why not make it two to one more fans and more money for the club I never heard anything about it from them
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I asked a similar question to yours, thinking of possibility of overcrowding at time.
The answer I got was safe standing meant “one person per seat” meaning no change to capacity.
 
L&D RSC said:
Or different people have different opinions? Sort of the whole reason for having a forum, no?

You think Rover ticketing would work in a 50k sold out stadium, I think it would be a logistical and probably H&S nightmare.
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Ive no problem with people having different opinions. However, it seems any suggestion for improvements at Ibrox gets hit with non stop objections and problems many of which can be quite easily resolved. Its almost like nothing can be done and everything has to stay exactly as it is.

With regards rover tickets surely you dont think anyone is suggesting 50k rover tickets allowing people to move around the whole stadium? Is that what you think is being suggested?

I'll tell you what. Its hard work trying to explain anything on here.
 
giogaddi said:
But there is definitely an appetite for it amongst a significant section of supporters. It should be about choice and a section should be installed for those who enjoy standing without hindering the view of fans who prefer to sit. I'm not aware of any other clubs taking a vote on it either. Why would a majority need to be in favour of it?
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There is more to it than “I/we want”.
Surely you can understand that.
 
giogaddi said:
But there is definitely an appetite for it amongst a significant section of supporters. It should be about choice and a section should be installed for those who enjoy standing without hindering the view of fans who prefer to sit. I'm not aware of any other clubs taking a vote on it either. Why would a majority need to be in favour of it?
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Its unbelievable isnt it? Im beginning to get the impression those objecting to SS think its 50k rail seats and every single person ie 100% have to be in favour of it.
 
Hank Hill said:
Rover tickets and anything other than 1:1 ratio is never going to be allowed in the UK. Clubs have fought long and hard enough just to get their current standing sections approved.
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I have a fear that 1:1 ratio will be abused very quickly.
Read the very recent thread regarding fans “skipping” in.
It’s not always kids, the two directly before me
(v. USG) we’re both adults.
 
I've been in German stehplatz. There are good points and bad points about them. Good? They can generate atmosphere. Nobody buys a ticket for a standing section without knowing that its a standing section and that its going to be noisier. I always buy stehplatz tickets for the SAP when I'm over for Adler Mannheim games. Unfortunately they're also the cheapest tickets in the stadium. Its what fuels the myth of affordable German football. German football is generally more affordable, but the cheap tickets aren't universal. You might pay 20 Euro for a standing ticket, but a seat at Frankfurt v Schalke in 2017 cost me 55 Euro. Karlsruher v Hannover in Bundesliga 2 in 2019 was near enough 40. There's a cost to the club to install safe standing and usually a cost in cheaper ticket prices.

You'd also need to see fan behaviour change. The standing sections in Mannheim are 402, 401 and 419. There's a certain expectation within those sections. Prime places? First come, first served. But once a fan as secured their standing place then thats theirs. Tie a scarf, flag or a jersey to the railing? Nobody unties it and moves it. You'd normally leave 1 person at the standing area whilst the rest of your group goes for a beer or a snack, but German fans in standing sections generally don't take advantage and move folk. Somehow I can't see British football fans being as honourable. You'd almost certainly see fans arguing - "that's my spot", "I was there first", "I stand here every week", "you spilled my bovril" etc.

They're great places to watch a game and they have their own quirks and rules. I'm not convinced that they'd transfer well to modern football and 2 generations of fans who have grown up with all seater grounds.
 
iaatpies said:
I've been in German stehplatz. There are good points and bad points about them. Good? They can generate atmosphere. Nobody buys a ticket for a standing section without knowing that its a standing section and that its going to be noisier. I always buy stehplatz tickets for the SAP when I'm over for Adler Mannheim games. Unfortunately they're also the cheapest tickets in the stadium. Its what fuels the myth of affordable German football. German football is generally more affordable, but the cheap tickets aren't universal. You might pay 20 Euro for a standing ticket, but a seat at Frankfurt v Schalke in 2017 cost me 55 Euro. Karlsruher v Hannover in Bundesliga 2 in 2019 was near enough 40. There's a cost to the club to install safe standing and usually a cost in cheaper ticket prices.

You'd also need to see fan behaviour change. The standing sections in Mannheim are 402, 401 and 419. There's a certain expectation within those sections. Prime places? First come, first served. But once a fan as secured their standing place then thats theirs. Tie a scarf, flag or a jersey to the railing? Nobody unties it and moves it. You'd normally leave 1 person at the standing area whilst the rest of your group goes for a beer or a snack, but German fans in standing sections generally don't take advantage and move folk. Somehow I can't see British football fans being as honourable. You'd almost certainly see fans arguing - "that's my spot", "I was there first", "I stand here every week", "you spilled my bovril" etc.

They're great places to watch a game and they have their own quirks and rules. I'm not convinced that they'd transfer well to modern football and 2 generations of fans who have grown up with all seater grounds.
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Great summary.
Anybody else have direct experience?
 
tazzabear said:
I asked a similar question to yours, thinking of possibility of overcrowding at time.
The answer I got was safe standing meant “one person per seat” meaning no change to capacity.
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I think there's two issues here getting mixed up.

1st. One person per seat doesnt mean the same number of seats we already have. Rangers could install smaller seats or seats closer together or more rows without safe standing. That could increase capacity.

2nd. In the UK the ratio of seats to standing is 1 to 1 but it isnt restricted elsewhere and maybe the UK will catch up eventually. If they do then Rangers could increase the capacity of any SS areas.
 
vicbex said:
Ive no problem with people having different opinions. However, it seems any suggestion for improvements at Ibrox gets hit with non stop objections and problems many of which can be quite easily resolved. Its almost like nothing can be done and everything has to stay exactly as it is.

With regards rover tickets surely you dont think anyone is suggesting 50k rover tickets allowing people to move around the whole stadium? Is that what you think is being suggested?

I'll tell you what. Its hard work trying to explain anything on here.
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No, that is not what I think. I am perfectly capable of understanding your posts, so no need for the last part.

I even mentioned rover ticket in GF as an example. I think that would be a nightmare and just wouldn't work in a sell out as latecomers would just pile into the area they want, regardless of it being full or not.

Just because something is a great idea in your head, does not mean it is a stadium improvement. Again, its all opinions.
 
djc1980 said:
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
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Nearly the full BF stands already no matter what the game is so it's nothing to do with how important the game is. It needs implemented as it is safer, and those who don't want to stand can request a move, and those elsewhere in the stadium who want to stand can take their space.
 
tazzabear said:
There is more to it than “I/we want”.
Surely you can understand that.
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Just like there's more to it than "I/we don't want".

What I dont understand is we're only talking about less than 10% standing so why cant those who dont want it sit in the other 90% of the stadium?

Give fans a choice.
 
vicbex said:
I think there's two issues here getting mixed up.

1st. One person per seat doesnt mean the same number of seats we already have. Rangers could install smaller seats or seats closer together or more rows without safe standing. That could increase capacity.

2nd. In the UK the ratio of seats to standing is 1 to 1 but it isnt restricted elsewhere and maybe the UK will catch up eventually. If they do then Rangers could increase the capacity of any SS areas.
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On q1, I’m fairly certain that, when planning permission was sought and granted, the size of seat would be a legal requirement, or would have been the legal requirement at the time of installation.
 
L&D RSC said:
No, that is not what I think. I am perfectly capable of understanding your posts, so no need for the last part.

I even mentioned rover ticket in GF as an example. I think that would be a nightmare and just wouldn't work in a sell out as latecomers would just pile into the area they want, regardless of it being full or not.

Just because something is a great idea in your head, does not mean it is a stadium improvement. Again, its all opinions.
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Ive already explained that the club would sell a few tickets less than there were seats so that would make it easier for late comers to find a seat. Of course that immediately gets criticised because we'd be losing money on empty seats.

Another thing to consider is we very rarely if ever have 100% capacity anyway. The club might sell all the tickets but not everyone turns up.

Back to latecomers. It might encourage people to get there on time plus if you're late then that's not the club's fault.
 
tazzabear said:
On q1, I’m fairly certain that, when planning permission was sought and granted, the size of seat would be a legal requirement, or would have been the legal requirement at the time of installation.
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Possibly but things change. New planning proposals can be sought.
 
Coop1872 said:
Not against the idea but I would guess the club and police would be opposed to rover tickets as they like to know who is where in the ground.
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Of course but that isnt a good enough reason to stop them. What about away fans buying tickets? They dont know who's buying them.
 
Neilston Unionist said:
Nearly the full BF stands already no matter what the game is so it's nothing to do with how important the game is. It needs implemented as it is safer, and those who don't want to stand can request a move, and those elsewhere in the stadium who want to stand can take their space.
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Look at some of the objections to it on this thread alone. Its incredible.

Makes me wonder how all these other clubs managed to do it. Celtic have had it for 5 years now and they're increasing it.
 
tazzabear said:
Great summary.
Anybody else have direct experience?
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Like I said earlier in thread I’ve stood at about 30 stadiums in Germany in the last 10 years, been to about 55 throughout the leagues. Every now and again you’ll see a rumpus of some sort of someone nicking a place (usually by accident), I have had it myself at a few places. UB are going down the route of things I’ve seen abroad more and more and I can see both sides to what they want - go some standing ends in Germany in the wrong colour and you’ll get a pull for it, might get thrown out or laid out for taking a photo even.

Standings miles better and I struggle sitting now at Football, especially when it’s sold out. It ain’t all this rail seating in Germany though, loads of proper terraces still in use in Bundesliga.

I’ve also stood at matches in Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Spain, Italy and many other countries this last 10 years. Some well organised and some on a par with how it was in the in Britain back in the 80s. We are just a bit unlucky in a way but the lack of solidarity amongst fans in Britain will always hold us back on these issues - I mean Club to Club there, till that changes a hell of a lot of other topics will never move forward positively for match going supporters as well.
 
PMB1872 said:
Perhaps individuals could use their own.
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Of course. Im responding to another poster saying he doesnt want to be closer to someone with BO. That's why he doesnt want smaller seats so Ive jokingly said the club could provide showers.
 
Wazza said:
Like I said earlier in thread I’ve stood at about 30 stadiums in Germany in the last 10 years, been to about 55 throughout the leagues. Every now and again you’ll see a rumpus of some sort of someone nicking a place (usually by accident), I have had it myself at a few places. UB are going down the route of things I’ve seen abroad more and more and I can see both sides to what they want - go some standing ends in Germany in the wrong colour and you’ll get a pull for it, might get thrown out or laid out for taking a photo even.

Standings miles better and I struggle sitting now at Football, especially when it’s sold out. It ain’t all this rail seating in Germany though, loads of proper terraces still in use in Bundesliga.

I’ve also stood at matches in Sweden, Belgium, Holland, Spain, Italy and many other countries this last 10 years. Some well organised and some on a par with how it was in the in Britain back in the 80s. We are just a bit unlucky in a way but the lack of solidarity amongst fans in Britain will always hold us back on these issues - I mean Club to Club there, till that changes a hell of a lot of other topics will never move forward positively for match going supporters as well.
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Always good to hear of other experiences, especially when the underlying view is different from my own.
 
vicbex said:
1st. One person per seat doesnt mean the same number of seats we already have. Rangers could install smaller seats or seats closer together or more rows without safe standing. That could increase capacity.
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Having sat in most areas at Ibrox I'd certainly place extreme doubt on the chances of being able to install smaller seats or seats closer together.

It's already pretty tight compared to a lot of other grounds on my European travels.
 
vicbex said:
No no no. Imagine Liverpool moving the Kop to an area split in two and positioned below their main stand AND out of view for a tv audience.
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The stands were designed for seats, the enclosure as far as I'm aware was never modernised and was custom built for standing.
 
djc1980 said:
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
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You don’t bash your knees against the seat in front of you? Creates a proper section where the UB & Broomloan Collective can dedicate to cheering the team on for 90 minutes? It’s an absolute no brainer.
 
vicbex said:
Terrible location for SS. For a start an area split down the middle is hopeless. Worse still we'd never see our UB displays on tv or see them in action.
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Definitely would make no sense. It’s nice to have the UB visually on TV with flags etc. Hardly anyone in the Enclosures stand.
 
Korova Milk Bar said:
You don’t bash your knees against the seat in front of you? Creates a proper section where the UB & Broomloan Collective can dedicate to cheering the team on for 90 minutes? It’s an absolute no brainer.
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Exactly. Odd to see so many trying hard to think of reasons not to do it while ignoring the amazing difference it would make to the atmosphere.
 
Hank Hill said:
Having sat in most areas at Ibrox I'd certainly place extreme doubt on the chances of being able to install smaller seats or seats closer together.

It's already pretty tight compared to a lot of other grounds on my European travels.
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Im only trying to point out the difference between the two issues.

Here's another point. In SS sections the seats arent used often. The overwhelming majority of the time the supporters will stand.
 
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