Merch Protestant and Roman Catholic map of Ireland in 1901

Little piece of trivia bears. Nearly all street names were changed to names representing Irish heroes such as wolftone, parnell etc and so the previous british influence was airbrushed out.

They forgot one, probably due to ignorance..Nassau Street, Dublin remains..it is named after the house of Nassau from which William of Orange originates!
 
For those in NI.

Do you think demographic shift may be fixed if Scotland was to become independent?

I remember on the day of the referendum saying to the missus that if we lost I wasn't for hanging around here. No idea where the 5 of us would be today.

Do you take atheists? I hate the other lot just as much as you do. :)
 
All Unionists welcome ;)

There’s some very nice places to live in NI, it’s got many good things going. But same as you, if there was ever a change to the constitution I don’t think I’d be around to see it. Not that I believe it will happen in my lifetime or any time soon.
 
It’s done by agreement between the nhs in NI and the HSE in the republic and that will include finance etc.
Do you have to pay to see a GP in ROI? Also, what happens if you collapse in the street and rushed to hospital, is that free or do you have to pay something later?
 
Do you have to pay to see a GP in ROI? Also, what happens if you collapse in the street and rushed to hospital, is that free or do you have to pay something later?
A gp visit costs €50 but that is not all you pay extra for blood tests etc,I’ll give you a personal experience from three years ago.i took ill with an irregular heartbeat,I went to my gp and it was serious enough to send me straight to a&e in an ambulance.while in the gp I had to have an ecg and when I was put into the ambulance my wife who was with me had to pay €70 €50 plus €20 for the ecg before she could leave and follow the ambulance in our car.
It’s €100 for a visit to a&e and €90 per night for the bed.
I was in the hospital for four nights.that bout of illness cost in the region of €600-€700.you get a bill sent to you usually a couple of days after you get home.
This I think is the ace up the sleeve for maintaining the union and let me tell you the nhs far outperforms the hse.thousands of Irish nurses on the second they qualify will apply for nursing jobs in the nhs in NI or GB as the pay and career progression is far better in the nhs
 
For those in NI.

Do you think demographic shift may be fixed if Scotland was to become independent?

I remember on the day of the referendum saying to the missus that if we lost I wasn't for hanging around here. No idea where the 5 of us would be today.

Do you take atheists? I hate the other lot just as much as you do. :)
To be honest if Scotland goes independent I'll lose all heart for the Union.

If for some reason Ireland becomes United i'll be out of here in a heartbeat.
 
I think the role of religion in most conflicts is always overstated. It's a difference, not the difference.

Money, resources, power and nationalism are much bigger factors.
In the context of Ireland, nationalism/republicanism and Catholicism have always been inextricably intertwined.

For eg., at the outset of the 'troubles' in NI circa late 60s, Catholics, despite their claims of being discriminated against, were better off economically than their counterparts in the ROI, because of their access to British welfare and educational benefits whose levels at the time were significantly greater than those available to their co-religionists south of the border.

The nationalists in NI were therefore seeking unity with the ROI, despite knowing that if unity came about, they would be materially less well off.
 
If anyone from outside NI ever gets a chance, take a drive up round South Armagh. The likes of from Newtownhamilton to Crossmaglen via Cullyhanna, then down via Camlough into Newry. Have a look at how “deprived” a majority of the houses on the road look.

They haven’t done too bad out of living in NI......
 
A gp visit costs €50 but that is not all you pay extra for blood tests etc,I’ll give you a personal experience from three years ago.i took ill with an irregular heartbeat,I went to my gp and it was serious enough to send me straight to a&e in an ambulance.while in the gp I had to have an ecg and when I was put into the ambulance my wife who was with me had to pay €70 €50 plus €20 for the ecg before she could leave and follow the ambulance in our car.
It’s €100 for a visit to a&e and €90 per night for the bed.
I was in the hospital for four nights.that bout of illness cost in the region of €600-€700.you get a bill sent to you usually a couple of days after you get home.
This I think is the ace up the sleeve for maintaining the union and let me tell you the nhs far outperforms the hse.thousands of Irish nurses on the second they qualify will apply for nursing jobs in the nhs in NI or GB as the pay and career progression is far better in the nhs
I didn’t know that the Irish health care system has the potential to be so expensive for the patient. That fact alone could be a game changer for any straight thinking RC when voting for an UI. One serious illness and you go bankrupt easily without proper health insurance, which probably costs a bit itself.

In Canada our healthcare system ,although not without problems, is one of the major reasons why we want nothing to do with becoming the 51st state.
 
If anyone from outside NI ever gets a chance, take a drive up round South Armagh. The likes of from Newtownhamilton to Crossmaglen via Cullyhanna, then down via Camlough into Newry. Have a look at how “deprived” a majority of the houses on the road look.

They haven’t done too bad out of living in NI......
Spot on mate.
Im lucky to live in a fairly loyalist wee town in Co. Londonderry but the area just to the south of the town is rife with poets.
Honestly, you'd wonder how they manage to heat and maintain the small castles they live in, what with them being so deprived and downtrodden.
As you rightly say, Norn Iron has been more than kind to these people
 
If anyone from outside NI ever gets a chance, take a drive up round South Armagh. The likes of from Newtownhamilton to Crossmaglen via Cullyhanna, then down via Camlough into Newry. Have a look at how “deprived” a majority of the houses on the road look.

They haven’t done too bad out of living in NI......
You can’t help notice when you drive down the motorway to Dublin that in what was bandit country the houses are huge and back in the day you couldn’t build a new house down there without getting permission from the local Provos.a lot of them are built at the bottom of hills the army had watchtowers on top of.
 
Do you have to pay to see a GP in ROI? Also, what happens if you collapse in the street and rushed to hospital, is that free or do you have to pay something later?
About €60 to see a GP.
Hospital admissions €100 base charge.
Some people have medical cards which covers costs. Otherwise health insurance.
 
You can’t help notice when you drive down the motorway to Dublin that in what was bandit country the houses are huge and back in the day you couldn’t build a new house down there without getting permission from the local Provos.a lot of them are built at the bottom of hills the army had watchtowers on top of.
Reminds you of belfast where there used to be Ruc stations and army bases the poets have fairly got houses built on them now as the likes of short strand where the Ruc station was is has houses on it now and before you go on the westlink there was a police station on the left near newlodge & theres poet houses there now and same in west belfast , The poets don"t hang about claiming the land but i do remember last season heading to londondairy to watch Carrick Rangers and was heading thru poety Dungiven and the old Ruc station on the main street has a Presbyterian hall now and i thought i was seeing things lol as remember there used to be a orange hall on the main street and not there anymore
 
A lot of that is just secularization though.
I was raised protestant but gave it up a long time ago. Over half of the British population don't identify as religious. Christianity as a whole seems to be fading, but catholicism is resisting it better than protestantism. It's more of a tribal thing for them I think. I assume Ireland is still following the same pattern.
 
A lot of Irelands income is from multi nationals having their headquarters there although most of their trading is carried out in other countries throughout Europe.Understandably not too many apart from Ireland are happy with the arrangements at present and a big push is on to have equality of tax levels plus taxes paid in the country the trade takes place in and not via an office in Dublin .
The good old Irish eh ,always looking to get level and equal with the big countries but expect to operate a more preferential tax system to the rest .
Last i knew ,it was still going through the Europen courts but no idea the current position on it but can't see the compitition on mainland Europe putting up with it for ever .
Remember also that a major slice of the R O I trade is with mainland Britain who also took a deep breath to bail the celtic tigger out after the collapse in 2008 .
They should remember the hand that feeds them when they are slinging mud over the brexit situation .
True it was supposed to be
 
I was raised protestant but gave it up a long time ago. Over half of the British population don't identify as religious. Christianity as a whole seems to be fading, but catholicism is resisting it better than protestantism. It's more of a tribal thing for them I think. I assume Ireland is still following the same pattern.
The GAA is their definition of “Irish-ism” these days. They live in O’Neills gear like a uniform.
 
I was raised protestant but gave it up a long time ago. Over half of the British population don't identify as religious. Christianity as a whole seems to be fading, but catholicism is resisting it better than protestantism. It's more of a tribal thing for them I think. I assume Ireland is still following the same pattern.
Scottish regular church attendance, 2017 - 7%

Therefore we segregate kids, presumably based on football team, at 4 years old.

And the SNP's aim, 18 kids per P1 class, made in 2007, continues to be show failure in the local paper's P1 class pics. 20/23/25. (Given Covid it's likely more due to absences)

But, hey, better to have no kids educated properly than to send young Declan in along with a load of DOBs.
 
Scottish regular church attendance, 2017 - 7%

Therefore we segregate kids, presumably based on football team, at 4 years old.

And the SNP's aim, 18 kids per P1 class, made in 2007, continues to be show failure in the local paper's P1 class pics. 20/23/25. (Given Covid it's likely more due to absences)

But, hey, better to have no kids educated properly than to send young Declan in along with a load of DOBs.
The primary school I went to had a catholic school across the road. I remember asking one of the older kids why there were two schools. He said, "they're different from us, they're catholic". We stood there looking across at that school, and saw another couple of kids standing there looking back at us. The bizarreness of it has never left me.
 
Ireland is currently fourth on the UN's Human Development Index (HDI) ranking, while the UK is at 14th. One component of those HDI rankings is real gross national income (GNI) per capita. ... On this measure, Ireland's income per head at $53,754 (€45,736) is 37 per cent higher than the UK's at $39,116 (€33,279).

It's figures like this that will decide folks views on a United Ireland. Also the RC church's loss of control. The fears of the Unionist population of unification are slowly eroding.
Stats like these can be deceptive. Up to one-third of the RoI’s GDP never actually enters the economy - it results from multinationals transferring money via the country. There was a 25% spike in GDP five years ago.

Another issue is sustainability. Countries with relatively young populations like the Republic tend to fare better economically but this factor is ultimately dependent on birth-rate. Germany is going to face major issues within a generation due to its low birth-rate.
 
I didn’t know that the Irish health care system has the potential to be so expensive for the patient. That fact alone could be a game changer for any straight thinking RC when voting for an UI. One serious illness and you go bankrupt easily without proper health insurance, which probably costs a bit itself.

In Canada our healthcare system ,although not without problems, is one of the major reasons why we want nothing to do with becoming the 51st state.
How does the Canadian system work mate,the UK system as it stands is not sustainable without major increases in funding and other country's healthcare could shine a light maybe on a way to improve .
As things stand NI does not have a healthcare system worth the name .
The ROI costs for seeing a doc could well be a way to help as too many go to them for little or no reason.
A & E units are the same too .
I know an ambulance driver very well and he says those A & E dept's are virtually empty now compared to pre covid levels so where are all these serious illnesses.
A big part of A and E turnover of patients has been down to peoples problems getting an doc appointment at the local surgery so they just troop along without having an accident or an emergency and clog the whole system up .
It needs rebuilt from the ground up and that starts with better access to more GP s in my view
 
I was raised protestant but gave it up a long time ago. Over half of the British population don't identify as religious. Christianity as a whole seems to be fading, but catholicism is resisting it better than protestantism. It's more of a tribal thing for them I think. I assume Ireland is still following the same pattern.
Im the exact same as yourself in regard to seeing the light of shunning religion.
The protestant religion has a more independant mind on it ,bourne out by the number of different types of churches .If they don't fancy the goings on where they worship ,they just start a new one :)
catholics have one church or mafia if you will and they close ranks to protect it .
if only they would open their eyes and see its only reason for existance is to control them and safe guard the cult
 
I've no idea if this was a valid / accurate statement - but someone told me there was once a time long past - when there were more non rc churches in Dublin than in Belfast

Looking at these maps - suggest it may have been possible - anyone know if this was true ?
What this maybe relates to is Cathedrals? There are two in Dublin both CoI
 
A & E units are the same too .
I know an ambulance driver very well and he says those A & E dept's are virtually empty now compared to pre covid levels so where are all these serious illnesses.
A big part of A and E turnover of patients has been down to peoples problems getting an doc appointment at the local surgery so they just troop along without having an accident or an emergency and clog the whole system up .
It needs rebuilt from the ground up and that starts with better access to more GP s in my view
I know that this is not the case across the board, and I’ve no doubt there ARE genuine issues being missed - but I have to say this...

The last couple of times I’ve sat in A&E, with young lads having hurt themselves playing sport - there’s quite a few people there who didn’t need to be there quite honestly. The A&E staff would tell you there’s people who use and abuse the system generally and because hospitals aren’t a great place to be right now, that’s way down.

I also know an A&E nurse and she said the majority of people they’re seeing now, at least they know they actually need seen and not just the “users and abusers” they have to waste time and draining resources on.

There’s a happy medium but sadly I know when this is over, the users and abusers will be back at it again.

The NHS system works better if people would use some personal responsibility more and not rip it for all it’s worth.
 
What this maybe relates to is Cathedrals? There are two in Dublin both CoI
As an aside I hadn’t been to church in years. Was over with the wife and my folks for my dads 60th. My mums an elder in the church and had decided she was going to go...I decided to go with her!!!!
 
Out of interest have you always stayed in RoI and if so your ancestors?
I have worked in NI for a few years. Settled back at home now. All my parents siblings were born in ROI border counties but moved to NI. That tells a story in itself.
They would have moved away in the 50s and 60s.
ROI would not have been particularly hospitable for them possibly at that time.
 
I have worked in NI for a few years. Settled back at home now. All my parents siblings were born in ROI border counties but moved to NI. That tells a story in itself.
They would have moved away in the 50s and 60s.
ROI would not have been particularly hospitable for them possibly at that time.
The “creep away” from the border of NI Protestants would be pretty obvious too. Towns like Keady and Newtownhamilton in South Armagh are progressively losing their Protestant minority.

That’s even before incidents of “ethnic cleansing” like Tullyvallen, Darkley and Kingsmills. And lesser known individual incidents like what they did to Willy Meaklim

Twitter - “On This Day” - William Meaklim
 
I actually never knew you had to pay for hospital beds in ireland. Surely you are well worse off than you are here in the uk.
 
I know that this is not the case across the board, and I’ve no doubt there ARE genuine issues being missed - but I have to say this...

The last couple of times I’ve sat in A&E, with young lads having hurt themselves playing sport - there’s quite a few people there who didn’t need to be there quite honestly. The A&E staff would tell you there’s people who use and abuse the system generally and because hospitals aren’t a great place to be right now, that’s way down.

I also know an A&E nurse and she said the majority of people they’re seeing now, at least they know they actually need seen and not just the “users and abusers” they have to waste time and draining resources on.

There’s a happy medium but sadly I know when this is over, the users and abusers will be back at it again.

The NHS system works better if people would use some personal responsibility more and not rip it for all it’s worth.
Spot on but what really needs looked at is the whole health system.
Picture this senario .
Someone with an ongoing pain that fails to mend .
Phone GP and some receptionist tries to tell you whats wrong o_O
2 weeks later no improvement ,phone back ,promised a call back by GP which comes a day later.Prescribes pain killers .Bet you wouldn't have thought of that one yourself
A month later ,no change ,calls again and only now gets an appointment an the surgery treatment room for the nurses to take bloods and actually meet the doctor .
Result is an immediate referral for a scan which in itself takes another 5 weeks plus a couple more to be looked at .
If you had an aggressive cancer you'd be goosed.
Now on the other hand if you visit an a & e dept ,you may have a long wait time but they will be able to do all the tests ,scans and x rays there and then and get to the bottom of it if possible .
Its no wonder people just decide to bypass their GP
 
I’m in NI, are you telling me that SF and their cronies go to chapel every Sunday, as do loyalists to churches?

You only have to see how any thread on religion goes on here, a staunchly Unionist minded forum, to see how religion is a “tag” these days rather than the be all and end all. It’s politically driven.
School are still firmly segregated along religious lines. That makes religion a core divisive issue.
 
The “creep away” from the border of NI Protestants would be pretty obvious too. Towns like Keady and Newtownhamilton in South Armagh are progressively losing their Protestant minority.

That’s even before incidents of “ethnic cleansing” like Tullyvallen, Darkley and Kingsmills. And lesser known individual incidents like what they did to Willy Meaklim

Twitter - “On This Day” - William Meaklim
Aaah yes that's true for sure. Same in south Fermanagh.
 
School are still firmly segregated along religious lines. That makes religion a core divisive issue.
It does, but I know RCs who are quite happy to live in NI and wouldn’t (appear to) be pro-UI.

However, it is sadly the case that once the priests, teachers and GAA get their hands on them (some a tad too literally) - then unfortunately an accident of birth translates itself into a political belief in the majority.
 
I have worked in NI for a few years. Settled back at home now. All my parents siblings were born in ROI border counties but moved to NI. That tells a story in itself.
They would have moved away in the 50s and 60s.
ROI would not have been particularly hospitable for them possibly at that time.
My grand-dad left NI in the late 30s to go and fight in the war. He only ever went back to visit, settling in Scotland when he met my gran.

he grew up in rural Tyrone and said the Catholics in his village used to come out on the 12th and listen to and watch the bands marching past...changed, changed times.
 
My grand-dad left NI in the late 30s to go and fight in the war. He only ever went back to visit, settling in Scotland when he met my gran.

he grew up in rural Tyrone and said the Catholics in his village used to come out on the 12th and listen to and watch the bands marching past...changed, changed times.
Yes, at that time there were 12th July parades in Cavan with no bother. Changed times as you say.
 
to quote someone,brought up in the Falls area that, I know ."everyone's a republican,till they look at health care in the republic."
:)) shows where their priorities lie
As i said in a previous post, some charges might actually help things in NI .
I think it was Simon Hamilton when minister for health but could be wrong, that hinted at introducing a fee for prescriptions across the board and he nearly got crucified .
The fee spoke about was 50 pence , yip 50 pence for everyone ,man woman and child .No exemptions and no reasonable person could argue but he got tore a new one .
Some time, somehow more money will be needed for proper healthcare if thats what people expect from the NHS .Charges for certain things or higher taxes ,who knows but something has to give with all the new treatments,higher population and people living longer .No magic money trees in the world that i can see .
 
Stats like these can be deceptive. Up to one-third of the RoI’s GDP never actually enters the economy - it results from multinationals transferring money via the country. There was a 25% spike in GDP five years ago.

Another issue is sustainability. Countries with relatively young populations like the Republic tend to fare better economically but this factor is ultimately dependent on birth-rate. Germany is going to face major issues within a generation due to its low birth-rate.
To increase the birth rate of Germans one might suggest a policy of tax breaks and State assistance to encourage marriage and larger families instead of relying on a constant stream of immigrants.
However, there is a probability that it would be recent immigrants who would take the most advantage of such policies thus accelerating the replacement of ethnic Germans with these new Germans.
The phrase rock and a hard place is easily conjured up.
 
The population of the modern nation of Ireland - by which I mean Ireland from the 17th to the 20th century - was comprised not of one, but of of three distinct ethic groups. Each had their own particular history and culture which had always stood in an uneasy coexistence with each other.

By far the largest of these, the native Irish Celts, retained a determined adherence to Catholicism, a faith which for over six centuries had became so intertwined with their culture, that for many, Irishness and Catholicism were often viewed as being one and the same. Even today, when asked to describe a ’typical Irishman’ most people around the world will begin by including ‘Catholic’ in their definition,

The smallest, though perhaps the most talented of the three Irish ethnic groups, were the Anglo-Irish’. Centered mostly around the capital Dublin and in southern Cork, their writers went on to make an outsize contribution to English literature, as did the generals and Field Marshall’s who lead the British Army during the height of Victoria’s Empire, the majority of whom were of Anglo-Irish descent.

Then there were the Scots-Irish, or more accurately, the Ulster-Scots. Strict Presbyterians from lowland Scotland they arrived as part of the great Plantation of Ulster in the 17th C. They were different in many respects from their Anglo Irish counterparts in the south. Firstly, by virtue of their numbers, they quickly became a majority in the province and therefore didn’t feel the same need to accommodate themselves to the native Irish culture as did the less numetous Anglicans in the South. Aggressive and feisty by temperament, they took their religion seriously, which made integration with the local Catholic population more difficult. By the late 19th, and during the fifty years of the 20th C, the Ulster-Scots had transformed their part of Ireland into a center of industry that was not replicated to the same extent in any other part of Ireland. Indeed, a walk through Belfast, with Its factories and rows of red-brick houses, you could easily imagine yourself being in an industrial northern English city.

The proximity of east Ulster to Scotland, and the ongoing social and cultural connections between the Ulster-Scots and their lowland Scots cousins, meant that the former group never became at ease being identified as fully ‘Irish’. It was therefore no surprise when at the time of the partition of Ireland, the most strident group opposing Irish unity, were the Ulster-Scots. When partition became a reality in 1921, the border was defined by the six counties of the historic province of Ulster, where the densest concentration of the descendants from the original Scots immigration to Ulster where to be found.






 
Back
Top