Merch Protestant and Roman Catholic map of Ireland in 1901

I've no idea if this was a valid / accurate statement - but someone told me there was once a time long past - when there were more non rc churches in Dublin than in Belfast

Looking at these maps - suggest it may have been possible - anyone know if this was true ?
Maybe 1900 when Belfast had 75% Protestant and Dublin was 30% Protestant? In 1911 Belfast had more industry than Dublin, it even had a larger population, but Dublin was the focal point of political power, the home to an elite class which ruled the country from Dublin Castle. ----------In 1808, only around 25,000 people lived in Belfast; by 1841, this number had increased to 70,000; and by 1911, it had reached 385,000. That was an increase of 10% from the previous census in 1901. It was now, and by a considerable distance, the largest city in Ireland
 
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I never mentioned Belfast North it was Belfast East what was the reason that Alliance nearly won it again. As I said something is happening Northern Ireland poll shows 45.4% back Irish unity and 46.8% support Union with UK - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
I didn’t say you did to be fair.

Polls are polls, GEs are GEs and referendums are referendums.
Oh, by the way, there are other polls out there which have shown that a UI is extremely unlikely. I’m sure you’ve seen them too.

‘Something’s happening’ ???

If you feel a United Ireland is the way forward, then fair enough but quoting a friend and a random poll from the Belfast Telegraph doesn’t add weight to your aspirations mate.
 
I didn’t say you did to be fair.

Polls are polls, GEs are GEs and referendums are referendums.
Oh, by the way, there are other polls out there which have shown that a UI is extremely unlikely. I’m sure you’ve seen them too.

‘Something’s happening’ ???

If you feel a United Ireland is the way forward, then fair enough but quoting a friend and a random poll from the Belfast Telegraph doesn’t add weight to your aspirations mate.
I never said anything about a UI i was just posting a post after I was called a liar. When did or say pro anything for a UI in fact I am a Unionist but as I said "something is happening" I am more than aware that most polls gives Union the lead I am worried about when Brexit makes things worse then the polls will change
 
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Ireland is currently fourth on the UN's Human Development Index (HDI) ranking, while the UK is at 14th. One component of those HDI rankings is real gross national income (GNI) per capita. ... On this measure, Ireland's income per head at $53,754 (€45,736) is 37 per cent higher than the UK's at $39,116 (€33,279).

It's figures like this that will decide folks views on a United Ireland. Also the RC church's loss of control. The fears of the Unionist population of unification are slowly eroding.
A lot of Irelands income is from multi nationals having their headquarters there although most of their trading is carried out in other countries throughout Europe.Understandably not too many apart from Ireland are happy with the arrangements at present and a big push is on to have equality of tax levels plus taxes paid in the country the trade takes place in and not via an office in Dublin .
The good old Irish eh ,always looking to get level and equal with the big countries but expect to operate a more preferential tax system to the rest .
Last i knew ,it was still going through the Europen courts but no idea the current position on it but can't see the compitition on mainland Europe putting up with it for ever .
Remember also that a major slice of the R O I trade is with mainland Britain who also took a deep breath to bail the celtic tigger out after the collapse in 2008 .
They should remember the hand that feeds them when they are slinging mud over the brexit situation .
 
if a minority group 'A' has on average 5-6 children per family, and the majority group 'B' has just two, then it is just a question that of time, before 'A' inevitably becomes the majority. This is what is happening in NI.

It’s certainly what has been happening but evidence suggests that it’s levelled out now as this generation of catholics aren’t having anywhere near the amount of children previous generations had.
 
One of the main problems for the change in support for unionist parties is quite simple,loads of Protestants from areas in Belfast like the Shankill, East Belfast etc and heartlands like East Antrim won’t get up off their arse and vote but by Christ they do some moaning about Sinn Fein etc and when challenged about it you get ‘What’s the point !’ Apathy pure and simple for a fundamental right,the other lot are getting their Granny on a stretcher down to the polling station and then they wonder how they get in .
 
One of the main problems for the change in support for unionist parties is quite simple,loads of Protestants from areas in Belfast like the Shankill, East Belfast etc and heartlands like East Antrim won’t get up off their arse and vote but by Christ they do some moaning about Sinn Fein etc and when challenged about it you get ‘What’s the point !’ Apathy pure and simple for a fundamental right,the other lot are getting their Granny on a stretcher down to the polling station and then they wonder how they get in .
I agree to a point but East Belfast people did vote and plenty voted Alliance but Belfast South was a real shocker, I thought Claire Hanna MIGHT win that seat but with a 15.4k majority verging on unbelievable
 
I agree to a point but East Belfast people did vote and plenty voted Alliance but Belfast South was a real shocker, I thought Claire Hanna MIGHT win that seat but with a 15.4k majority verging on unbelievable
I agree to a point but East Belfast people did vote and plenty voted Alliance but Belfast South was a real shocker, I thought Claire Hanna MIGHT win that seat but with a 15.4k majority verging on unbelievable
Although South Belfast was a Pro-Remain seat at the Brexit vote. Indeed 70-30 %. On top of this SF (7000 votes at the previous G election) and the Greens (2000 votes at the previous G election) didn’t stand to ensure the Pro- Remain candidate (Claire Hanna) was returned. Hardly a shock really.
 
I've no idea if this was a valid / accurate statement - but someone told me there was once a time long past - when there were more non rc churches in Dublin than in Belfast

Looking at these maps - suggest it may have been possible - anyone know if this was true ?
Over the centuries, particularly rural, churches have changed between RC & CoI.
 
Although South Belfast was a Pro-Remain seat at the Brexit vote. Indeed 70-30 %. On top of this SF (7000 votes at the previous G election) and the Greens (2000 votes at the previous G election) didn’t stand to ensure the Pro- Remain candidate (Claire Hanna) was returned. Hardly a shock really.
So you thought that majority was not a shock--- well it was a shocker to me. So are you saying 6k Unionists voted SDLP because of Brexit. How did Gregory Campbell retain his seat Constituency EU membership referendum*. East Londonderry voted to remain in the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum with 74.32% of the vote. This highlights the sizeable support of the electorate of East Londonderry to remain in the EU with a large majority of 48.64%.
 
So you thought that majority was not a shock--- well it was a shocker to me. So are you saying 6k Unionists voted SDLP because of Brexit. How did Gregory Campbell retain his seat Constituency EU membership referendum*. East Londonderry voted to remain in the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum with 74.32% of the vote. This highlights the sizeable support of the electorate of East Londonderry to remain in the EU with a large majority of 48.64%.
Really? South Belfast returning an SDLP candidate was a shock? Have you looked at the history of voting in that seat?
And no, you wouldn’t need 6000 Unionists to vote for the SDLP to ensure an SDLP majority of 6000.
Unsure how you’ve came to that conclusion?

Not sure I understand your point either about about Gregory Campbell and the East Londonderry seat?
 
As late as the early 1970's Belfast was around 75% Protestant, now it's less than 50%. A seismic change in a generation.
The Protestant population in the South collapsed after partition.
Was it not the largest religious emigration in Europe until Jews started leaving parts of Europe in the 1930s?
 
When I was being taught geography at school in the early 70s the proportion of Protestants to Catholics in Northern Ireland was 65% to 35%.
That sounds about right for 50 years ago.
In fact i thought it would have been say 70/30.
But we all know they breed like rabbits, the pedo in Rome does agree with contraception.
 
A lot of Irelands income is from multi nationals having their headquarters there although most of their trading is carried out in other countries throughout Europe.Understandably not too many apart from Ireland are happy with the arrangements at present and a big push is on to have equality of tax levels plus taxes paid in the country the trade takes place in and not via an office in Dublin .
The good old Irish eh ,always looking to get level and equal with the big countries but expect to operate a more preferential tax system to the rest .
Last i knew ,it was still going through the Europen courts but no idea the current position on it but can't see the compitition on mainland Europe putting up with it for ever .
Remember also that a major slice of the R O I trade is with mainland Britain who also took a deep breath to bail the celtic tigger out after the collapse in 2008 .
They should remember the hand that feeds them when they are slinging mud over the brexit situation .
The UK paid £3.5 billion to Ireland. This was a LOAN. The final repayment is due to be paid by April 2021. Ireland has paid £400 million in interest. So a good deal for both sides.
Your point about taxation is spot on. Why the feck the EU allows Ireland to basically screw other member countries is baffling. So much for fair trading. The EU changed Ireland from a poor backward country to one of the richest member states and this is how they act. It has got to the stage that the European courts have had to force Ireland to take taxes from the multinationals.
 
In Belfast when they knocked down the slum housing in the shankill and parts of east Belfast the loyalist population from those areas moved to places like Bangor,newtonards and lisburn much of that housing wasn’t replaced and hasn’t been till this day.that had a big influence of the changing demographics in Belfast
 
Ireland is currently fourth on the UN's Human Development Index (HDI) ranking, while the UK is at 14th. One component of those HDI rankings is real gross national income (GNI) per capita. ... On this measure, Ireland's income per head at $53,754 (€45,736) is 37 per cent higher than the UK's at $39,116 (€33,279).

It's figures like this that will decide folks views on a United Ireland. Also the RC church's loss of control. The fears of the Unionist population of unification are slowly eroding.
Born and living all my life in ROI, (live in Cavan work in Dublin) it is true that the standard of income and living is decent and probably a bit better than the UK. I live 1 mile from NI so am well able to compare and contrast.
However the truth is that there is still a subtle but strong undertone that is anti Protestant and for that matter anti Rangers. Unfortunately I cannot wear a Rangers top in my local town as I would not bring that level of risk on my family.
There is still a long way to go here in terms of tolerance and understanding particularly in border areas.

None the less there is a small core of bears here, loyal and proud as any other.
 
Born and living all my life in ROI, (live in Cavan work in Dublin) it is true that the standard of income and living is decent and probably a bit better than the UK. I live 1 mile from NI so am well able to compare and contrast.
However the truth is that there is still a subtle but strong undertone that is anti Protestant and for that matter anti Rangers. Unfortunately I cannot wear a Rangers top in my local town as I would not bring that level of risk on my family.
There is still a long way to go here in terms of tolerance and understanding particularly in border areas.

None the less there is a small core of bears here, loyal and proud as any other.
No surrender to the cavanloyal
 
The UK paid £3.5 billion to Ireland. This was a LOAN. The final repayment is due to be paid by April 2021. Ireland has paid £400 million in interest. So a good deal for both sides.
Your point about taxation is spot on. Why the feck the EU allows Ireland to basically screw other member countries is baffling. So much for fair trading. The EU changed Ireland from a poor backward country to one of the richest member states and this is how they act. It has got to the stage that the European courts have had to force Ireland to take taxes from the multinationals.
I bow to your insight on the bail out mate .Not up with it in detail myself but effectively without the UK helping them out they were goosed although i would recognise the importance of the trade for both countries going back and forward. This though just makes it so hard to understand their hardball antics over the brexit talks .
A few facts here lifted off the net on Irelands corporate tax yeild over recent times.
80% of it is paid by foreign firms
they employ 25% of the workforce who themselves contribute 50 % of Irelands salary tax reciets
Foreign firms create 57% of non farm revenue
US corporate firms make up 25 of the top 50 Irish businesses and those 25 businesses account for 70% of corporate tax revenue.
Apple alone are responsible for 25% of Irelands GDP
The country is widely recognised as being a larger tax haven than the Carabbean .

The question then has to be asked as to why the other europen countries put up with it considering their constant bleating to the UK about a level playing field in trade .

If ever an econemy was built on sand it is surely Irelands
 
Belfast was 75% Protestant in 1900 I believe it was 60/40 in 1970
Its now majority RC. Protestant population is now on around 41%. Very similar to what happened in London with the white flight, when whites started to leave the City for places like Essex etc. In Belfast the Prods moved out in numbers to the outskirts or actually left the country altogether, added to the Protestant brain drain where Prod students leave NI to study and dont ever return back to live. Prods are only the majority in 2 of the 6 counties, Antrim and Down.
 
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Born and living all my life in ROI, (live in Cavan work in Dublin) it is true that the standard of income and living is decent and probably a bit better than the UK. I live 1 mile from NI so am well able to compare and contrast.
However the truth is that there is still a subtle but strong undertone that is anti Protestant and for that matter anti Rangers. Unfortunately I cannot wear a Rangers top in my local town as I would not bring that level of risk on my family.
There is still a long way to go here in terms of tolerance and understanding particularly in border areas.

None the less there is a small core of bears here, loyal and proud as any other.

In general, during the course of my interactions with people from the ROI, I have found them to be pleasant and friendly people. Whenever I tactfully raised the subject of NI, partition, or the IRA, they quickly disavowed any sympathies with their countrymen who supported extremism.

But then, as you will know, it's very easy for a religious or ethnic group who are part of an overwhelming majority to appear tolerant and well meaning, because their majority position is such that they are under no possible threat. But the real test of a majority's tolerance is revealed by how they treat their minorities, especially those who vocally and aggressively seek to assert their rights.

My guess is that if the remnants of the Protestant population in the ROI after partition, had at any time attempted to vigorously assert their civil rights they would have been faced
with considerable hostility - a hostility that would likely not have precluded violence.

Stay well bro.
 
The threat of a re-ignition of the Troubles would deter a lot of RCs off voting for a United Ireland.

Let's be realistic about the situation; a sizeable proportion of the PUL wouldn't accept the end of their British identity under any circumstances and a referendum in Northern Ireland within the next few years would be extremely destabilising in my opinion.
Spotlight on bbc iPlayer last night 7500 UVF 5000 UDA membership at the moment I don’t see any all Ireland structure anytime soon despite demographic changes only takes a few to cause havoc as we well know......and the 2 governments do too
 
Born and living all my life in ROI, (live in Cavan work in Dublin) it is true that the standard of income and living is decent and probably a bit better than the UK. I live 1 mile from NI so am well able to compare and contrast.
However the truth is that there is still a subtle but strong undertone that is anti Protestant and for that matter anti Rangers. Unfortunately I cannot wear a Rangers top in my local town as I would not bring that level of risk on my family.
There is still a long way to go here in terms of tolerance and understanding particularly in border areas.

None the less there is a small core of bears here, loyal and proud as any other.
Just out of interest, would you cross the border to use a hospital?
Can that be done?
 
The biggest threat to the uk is the SNP. If Scotland pulls out the whole union will collapse shortly after.
I don't really see it unfolding that way. I hope it never happens of course, but there will have to be a 2-nation type settlement as some will emigrate but those remaining will assert their democratic rights to remain part of the United Kingdom.

I think Scotland will fall apart and Lothian and Borders, Dumfries and Galloway would probably elect to be part of the rest of the UK and the Orkneys and Shetland making a decision on that or Norway.

True Partition might be difficult, and it could put Northern Ireland, which is far more resolute, completely off. Wales won't leave the Union.

Having two nations - Scotland and Northern Ireland - especially with slight majorities -even if they were slight minorities, being forced out of the United Kingdom in short succession, is completely impractical.

We all know the simple solution, which sounds harsh and politically incorrect - but if you don't like the United Kingdom, leave. Don't try and break it up which will lead to nightmare scenarios.
 
Just out of interest, would you cross the border to use a hospital?
Can that be done?
It happens all the time.all childrens heart surgeries are carried out in Dublin.altnagevin(sp) in Londonderry is the main cancer treatment centre for donegal etc.health care staff who work in NI but live in roi will receive the covid vaccine long before most people in the republic will get it .
 
I didn’t realize till I moved over here there’s flute,accordion and pipe bands all along the southern side of the border.i went up a good few years ago to an ulster-scots night in Monaghan to celebrate Burns.the hall was packed and i learned that they ran Scottish country dancing lessons and produced world champions over the years.villages like drum and new bliss in Monaghan still believe they are on the wrong side of the border.
 
It happens all the time.all childrens heart surgeries are carried out in Dublin.altnagevin(sp) in Londonderry is the main cancer treatment centre for donegal etc.health care staff who work in NI but live in roi will receive the covid vaccine long before most people in the republic will get it .
How does this operate with the difference in health organisations and tax arrangements?
Or is there an agreement between both states?
 
After partition many Protestant/unionist faced a dilemma move to NI or keep your head down as the ira had an easy out to target Protestants just say “they were spies for the British” and that gave them a way of explaining away ethnic cleansing in parts of the republic.
 
In general, during the course of my interactions with people from the ROI, I have found them to be pleasant and friendly people. Whenever I tactfully raised the subject of NI, partition, or the IRA, they quickly disavowed any sympathies with their countrymen who supported extremism.

But then, as you will know, it's very easy for a religious or ethnic group who are part of an overwhelming majority to appear tolerant and well meaning, because their majority position is such that they are under no possible threat. But the real test of a majority's tolerance is revealed by how they treat their minorities, especially those who vocally and aggressively seek to assert their rights.

My guess is that if the remnants of the Protestant population in the ROI after partition, had at any time attempted to vigorously assert their civil rights they would have been faced
with considerable hostility - a hostility that would likely not have precluded violence.

Stay well bro.
You are bang on the money mate. It is as you say
Tolerance is afforded as long as there is minimal detraction from the cultural norms as it were. Having said that there is an overall improvement but a long way to go.
Thanks
 
I didn’t realize till I moved over here there’s flute,accordion and pipe bands all along the southern side of the border.i went up a good few years ago to an ulster-scots night in Monaghan to celebrate Burns.the hall was packed and i learned that they ran Scottish country dancing lessons and produced world champions over the years.villages like drum and new bliss in Monaghan still believe they are on the wrong side of the border.
Yes a small but staunch community
 
Ethnically cleansed after partition, Cork was a British naval & administrative base. Anglo names e.g. William, David etc were popular. The State religion was the protestant Church of Ireland. Religion now means little to many in Eire.
I mentioned this before in a post and was shot down, I totally agree.
 
The biggest threat to the uk is the SNP. If Scotland pulls out the whole union will collapse shortly after.
Sadly I think its only a matter of time before this happens. The SNP will landslide next Mays elections and will then demand Indy2. UK Government will imo find it very difficult to refuse such a demand. Hopefully they tell nippy to go and feck herself.
 
Correct, but the vast majority of Republicans couldn’t give a monkies about the actual religion. It’s political to them.
In my experience in Northern Ireland republicans do give a monkies about religion as do loyalists. Things are slowly changing but there is still wide spread sectarian division which will take generations to change.
 
In my experience in Northern Ireland republicans do give a monkies about religion as do loyalists. Things are slowly changing but there is still wide spread sectarian division which will take generations to change.
I’m in NI, are you telling me that SF and their cronies go to chapel every Sunday, as do loyalists to churches?

You only have to see how any thread on religion goes on here, a staunchly Unionist minded forum, to see how religion is a “tag” these days rather than the be all and end all. It’s politically driven.
 
I’m in NI, are you telling me that SF and their cronies go to chapel every Sunday, as do loyalists to churches?

You only have to see how any thread on religion goes on here, a staunchly Unionist minded forum, to see how religion is a “tag” these days rather than the be all and end all. It’s politically driven.
The bottom line is, the problems in NI are based on religious sectarianism. If you believed in your religious beliefs irrespective of your religion you wouldn't commit or condone murder. Political parties are trying to woo people from across the divide which is the reason why I think things are becoming increasingly politically driven as you say.
 
Wow never expected that. History of ireland is quite interesting especially for the free state. We only ever heard from the old ira. Never from the black and tans. I've been to Dublin twice and both times found it very friendly. Alot of people no interest in football. Alot of rugby fans
 
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