QotS Chairmans views on the return of football.

Jules Winfield

Well-Known Member
We have far too many senior teams in Scotland. Around 1/2 of them at least need to be eliminated. They add nothing, absolutely nothing, to the game and are a drain on sparse resources. Look at the balloon in the interview, “we can’t afford this, we can’t afford that”, holding out the begging bowl for the Scot govt to pay for their continuing existence. What have QoS EVER given to Scottish football to justify being given taxpayers money?

The only good thing to come out of the Covid pandemic is the likely (please) liquidation of these parasites. They won’t be missed. Best of all would be if enough of them go out of business so as to make the SPFL unviable and we see an amalgamation with the English leagues.
And clubs like this have the same say in decision making
 

L/COLNEYBEAR

Well-Known Member
Prick has got a cheek .

his team were sitting second bottom , 2 points ahead of thistle having played a game more than them , yet thistle are relegated.

he should count himself lucky .
Just like the majority of them, you couldn't mark their neck with a blowtorch. I hope they go under and he takes a financial hit.
 

Harrogate Bluenose

Well-Known Member
Harrogate Town are likely to have a bigger average crowd this season than Scottish championship club QotS. In fact I bet I could name 10 clubs in the national league with higher attendances. The fact these clubs rely on fans for income shows that the professional leagues in scotland has far too many clubs.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
It’s full time clubs like qots that are in trouble if they remain full time.
I get that.
I have a soft spot for QotS (I was going to say ”soft spot for Queens“ there but thought this might be misinterpreted!) but, it doesn’t go as far as bailing them, or anybody else, out.
 

Sir Sasa Papac

Well-Known Member
We have far too many senior teams in Scotland. Around 1/2 of them at least need to be eliminated. They add nothing, absolutely nothing, to the game and are a drain on sparse resources. Look at the balloon in the interview, “we can’t afford this, we can’t afford that”, holding out the begging bowl for the Scot govt to pay for their continuing existence. What have QoS EVER given to Scottish football to justify being given taxpayers money?

The only good thing to come out of the Covid pandemic is the likely (please) liquidation of these parasites. They won’t be missed. Best of all would be if enough of them go out of business so as to make the SPFL unviable and we see an amalgamation with the English leagues.
Well said. This guy wasn’t greeting for Partick or Hearts or Stranraer when he voted them down last month was he?

Cut the cord let’s see if he flies by himself
 

Prod Wallace

Well-Known Member
Will go against the grain here but hope none go out of existence from a purely football view point.
Their love of their club is comparable to anyone’s, think of the guys that support say Arbroath who travel every second week, who are we to take delight in taking that from them.
The machinations taking place by the corrupt SPFL have nothing to do with your average fan, so I hope they survive but think many won’t.
Don't disagree with any of that.

But Arbroath shouldnt have a say in the running of the national game.

These teams can go play football in the Auld Smokies western conference league or the Kipper cup or whatever.

I don't have an issue with football clubs existing and having loyal fans. Its their standing in the professional leagues I have issue with.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
Cutting club numbers isnt going to suddenly attract more people through the turnstiles at other grounds. We need more people to go to games on a Saturday afternoon and not either follow football from their armchairs or follow it on TV.
No it's not going to suddenly attract more people but it's undeniably diluting an already poor total pot available to clubs which feeds directly in to the quality of product and the live experience. Downside is the lack of identification with surviving club and the travel involved. Another upside though could be the chance of not seeing your wee team getting humped so regularly.
 

Sir Sasa Papac

Well-Known Member
I have mates and family back home who support forfar,arbroath and Montrose respectively.i went to Montrose games with my dad and grandad before I started going to see Rangers.they are quite content to win a promotion every so often and maybe a play off place.their is an arrogance saying well you don’t matter and you club isn’t important. the club they support is as important to them as Rangers are to us.
Just merge the teams is an easy answer and it doesn’t really work in terms of support Inverness Caley Thistle is a case in point while it has been a success on the park their are still a sizable number in Inverness who don’t go and watch them who were going to watch Inverness thistle and Caley
These clubs don’t have to end.

but the truth is we are supposed to have a professional league structure. In the space of 3 decades it was went from the vast majority professional teams to probably less than 50%. Because if you take out the old form crowds are dwindling. The young team don’t care about east fife or hearts they’ve got a hundred better games on tv.

it’s only going to get worse

They are essentially amateur teams who are in the wrong leagues and should drop to junior football.
 

Tim Hunter

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Its weird that they keep increasing the number of teams in the league. League 1 and 2 are not professional leagues. they should be outside the SPFL
Regan and Dumbo, at the behest of their puppetmaster, were responsible for bringing them under the same umbrella as the SPL.
It was part of their continuing rape of Rangers.
 

Wugs

Well-Known Member
Following the Scottish Government announcement today on exiting lockdown, Chairman Billy Hewitson has been sharing his thoughts about the return of football. He says clubs across Scotland need to have some kind of financial guarantee before football can return and believes restarting the game without a package in place would be “financial suicide”.

Queens were due to host Ayr United in the Championship the day football was halted with a ban on mass gatherings due to the coronavirus outbreak. Since then the club has been in lockdown with all staff, including management and players furloughed and the Chairman is keen to see the return of match days as soon as possible but insists it can only happen if the financial risks are taken away.

“As we continue to work our way through the current pandemic that has engulfed the country we along with other clubs are seeking clarity from the Scottish Government before we can make plans for the future”.

“There’s a lot of proposals being talked about, including playing behind closed doors. This would only be an option IF there is a financial model in place from the Scottish Government, football authorities or any governing body who will cover the loss of income. If there is no financial model in place then playing games without supporters would be financial suicide for clubs like Queen of the South”.

“You have to have revenue that covers your expenditure, if you have no income then you can’t spend money. For us the biggest expenditure is player’s wages and I’m sure that will be the case for most full time clubs. It might be a less of a risk for part time clubs as players have other employment”.

With no football since March the club's directors have been balancing the books, Queens like other clubs have welcomed the furlough scheme which has helped during a time of limited income. Billy added “during this period and going forward with no supporters we have been and would be looking at running the club on just 30% of our income. So it’s a dilemma for us; could we start up again and train for eight weeks with a view to start playing in August? I thnk the Premiership clubs could just about do it but it’s not clear for other teams and the biggest problem is financial”.

“There are so many questions and a lot of unknown just now so that makes it difficult to say what is going to happen. We want to be able to get back to full stadiums but we have to take Government guidance on that. Match day testing would be impossible due to the number of games being played and the time it would take to get results back. The hefty cost of individual testing machines would rule out clubs purchasing their own equipment so you would have to rely on mobile testing".

One other possibilty could be for clubs to play half a season - would that work for Queens? "It would be a lot less risky as you could hold off signing players etc. but for me the ideal situation would be for the Government to underwrite the season and we can start immediately”.

While he waits for some clarity the Chairman will be taking part in discussions with his counterparts at other Championship clubs to try to find a way forward “over the next couple of weeks the Championship clubs will be setting out their own road map of how they see a return to playing. There are five or six scenarios that could happen, but for me we all need to stick together and come to a collective agreement and come up with a proposal to present to the SPFL Board”.
 

EH47

Well-Known Member
So, let me get this right, his team were 2nd bottom, Thistle were 2 points behind with a game in hand and were simply judged by the SPFL as relegated and to Hell with the rights and wrongs of it, and we're now meant to pass the plate round for him?
Has he and his club not already had their share of the breaks?
 

EH47

Well-Known Member
Cutting club numbers isnt going to suddenly attract more people through the turnstiles at other grounds. We need more people to go to games on a Saturday afternoon and not either follow football from their armchairs or follow it on TV.
Thats true but then there wpuld be less deman
W

Wow ! The first part of your post is arrogant in the extreme. No club has any more (or less) right to exist at their own level than any other.
You probably have a point but then REAL arrogance is this guy sitting on his hands and letting Thistle be relegated in a self serving, highly questionable vote when they were only 2 points behind his club, and with a game in hand.

And now he's gone public and bubbling about tough times and seeking handouts from the general public?

You'd think maybe, just maybe, he'd have the common decency to sit down and keep his big fucking trap closed.
 
Every diddy team has as much right to exist as us but their influence and level within the system should match their clubs stature. There should be a reduction in the number of teams at SPFL level rather than a reduction of teams. Two tier SPFL with between 20-26 teams.

The easy comparison to make is England. 92 senior clubs for a population of 60million gives you roughly 650k people per senior team. We have 42 for 6million at roughly 140k people per senior team. There is no logic to us having 42 senior clubs especially when half of them are part time and get crowds smaller than the juniors get.
 

scoobytwo

Active Member
Sorry but I disagree with a lot. Saying clubs shouldn't exist because they are not providing real competition is absolutely selfish, egotistical bullshit. Clubs exist for more than just winning things, although that will be the aim for all, football teams are a big part of local communities all across the world, bringing families and friends together. Not all fans were born into Rangers supporting families, or are glory hunters who just choose winning teams, some people enjoy supporting smaller clubs for various reasons, who are we to say what's right or wrong just because we have a history of success?

I'd personally be gutted if my local vets team went bust, because I have a great group of friends and it brings us all together. Matches to look forward to, things to talk about and share passions with. We don't compete for trophies, we win the odd game and enjoy the whole social aspect, being underdogs and beating adversity.

A lot of clubs will have to downsize for a period, and some may sadly go bust, but that's the same with more than just football clubs at the moment.
I agree with what you are saying, we don't need to get rid of any clubs. The youth team my son plays for has just joined the pyramid setup with a new adult team and everyone is excited. But i do think we should reduce down from the 42 senior teams we have now. We could easily move 10 of them down to the regional leagues. These teams would probably end up getting bigger crowds due to the better supported teams down there.
 

Valley Bluenose

Well-Known Member
I have no issue with all these clubs 'surviving' but its time they were no longer a part of the SPFL. F*ck them off to the Highland/Lowland League or the Juniors. Losing Leagues 1/2 frees up over £1m in prize money that can be spread more evenly amongst the top two leagues left - whether they comprise of 20, 22, 24 or 28 teams in total.
 

Rudolph Hucker

Well-Known Member
W

Wow ! The first part of your post is arrogant in the extreme. No club has any more (or less) right to exist at their own level than any other.
You’re missing the point. This chairman is openly admitting his club can’t exist without handouts. What has this club (and a number of similar clubs) ever done to deserve a handout? Have they produced great players? Great teams? Great managers? Do they attract large crowds based on the population of their towns? Have they ever done anything to improve the game in this country?

What about governance? They have a say in how the game is run, have they used that wisely? Or have they consistently voted in self interest? Face it, most of these teams offer nothing to the game and indeed are part of the reason Scotland is a footballing backwater. They exist purely to exist, never making any attempt to become better, to achieve anything other than surviving for another season. They should not be rewarded for decades of under-achievement. They either survive under their own steam or go to the wall - this current situation is simply the catalyst for what should have happened years ago (after all, the cartel of senior clubs refused to have promotion to/relegation from the bottom league for decades in an act of appalling self-preservation against competition from hungrier, better-run clubs).
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
not really, we have part time local community clubs that are playing in a so called professional league.
Which doesnt skew the figures how?

Having 2 clubs with a combined total capacity of around 110,000 for home games absolutely skews the figures. Its an entirely different argument as to whether or not we should have a mix of full time and part time professional clubs. Or what would happen if we suddenly culled a number of them.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
You’re missing the point. This chairman is openly admitting his club can’t exist without handouts. What has this club (and a number of similar clubs) ever done to deserve a handout? Have they produced great players? Great teams? Great managers? Do they attract large crowds based on the population of their towns? Have they ever done anything to improve the game in this country?

What about governance? They have a say in how the game is run, have they used that wisely? Or have they consistently voted in self interest? Face it, most of these teams offer nothing to the game and indeed are part of the reason Scotland is a footballing backwater. They exist purely to exist, never making any attempt to become better, to achieve anything other than surviving for another season. They should not be rewarded for decades of under-achievement. They either survive under their own steam or go to the wall - this current situation is simply the catalyst for what should have happened years ago (after all, the cartel of senior clubs refused to have promotion to/relegation from the bottom league for decades in an act of appalling self-preservation against competition from hungrier, better-run clubs).
When was the last great player Rangers produced? Billy Gilmour aside, who will develop at Chelsea rather than Rangers. What have Rangers or Celtic done for the benefit of Scottish football? Other than buy in foreign talent, do the bare minimum to develop youngsters and moan like %^*& about the state of Scottish football?

The arrogance is astounding. How long ago was it that we were arguing that our fight with the SPFL was about improving governance for all? Couple of weeks and we're back to being billy big baws in a footballing backwater, hating the rest of Scottish football as much as we moan about them hating us.
 

Rudolph Hucker

Well-Known Member
When was the last great player Rangers produced? Billy Gilmour aside, who will develop at Chelsea rather than Rangers. What have Rangers or Celtic done for the benefit of Scottish football? Other than buy in foreign talent, do the bare minimum to develop youngsters and moan like %^*& about the state of Scottish football?

The arrogance is astounding. How long ago was it that we were arguing that our fight with the SPFL was about improving governance for all? Couple of weeks and we're back to being billy big baws in a footballing backwater, hating the rest of Scottish football as much as we moan about them hating us.
Are you really that stupid or just trolling?

UEFA cup finals in 2003 & 2008. Countless players for Scotland and other nations. Our European run this season alone, FFS.

It may have escaped your notice but our club was minutes from being obliterated in 2012 and was then taken over by charlatans and spivs, so it is not surprising that our development of young players in recent years hasn’t been what it should have been.

I’m not going to mention the scum since I don’t want to list their achievements (especially since they were at the cost of innocent kids childhoods) but we have achieved so much in our history (unless you want to argue we haven’t?), yet their are league clubs who have had a handful of promotions in their entire history and nothing else. They don’t even have aspirations to be any better. They simply exist, partly on the coat-tails of better run clubs who actually try to be successful.

Their horizons and aspirations are low and they live down to expectations. Sport is a competitive environment, serial failure should not be rewarded. If you can’t see that then you are part of the problem.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
Are you really that stupid or just trolling?

UEFA cup finals in 2003 & 2008. Countless players for Scotland and other nations. Our European run this season alone, FFS.

It may have escaped your notice but our club was minutes from being obliterated in 2012 and was then taken over by charlatans and spivs, so it is not surprising that our development of young players in recent years hasn’t been what it should have been.

I’m not going to mention the scum since I don’t want to list their achievements (especially since they were at the cost of innocent kids childhoods) but we have achieved so much in our history (unless you want to argue we haven’t?), yet their are league clubs who have had a handful of promotions in their entire history and nothing else. They don’t even have aspirations to be any better. They simply exist, partly on the coat-tails of better run clubs who actually try to be successful.

Their horizons and aspirations are low and they live down to expectations. Sport is a competitive environment, serial failure should not be rewarded. If you can’t see that then you are part of the problem.
All of which have done the sum of absolutely nothing for Scottish football.

The UEFA finals? 17 and 12 years ago. Did Scottish football suddenly take a step forward?

Scottish football has been on a downward trend since the late 90s. Rangers and Celtic have done very little to change that. It's a Scottish problem. We don't have enough kids playing football from a young age. We don't have good enough coaching. We don't give enough opportunities for our youngsters to play competitive matches. We'd rather sign foreign squad filler than give our kids a chance in the first team.

As for aspirations - how can smaller clubs have aspirations if the majority of the population who actually attend football matches do so at Ibrox or Celtic Park? Parents don't take their kids along to games at their local ground. Too many people in Scotland can't be arsed going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. We're constantly told that lower league football is utterly worthless.

It's nonsense. All nonsense.

Part of the problem? Part of the problem is Rangers or Celtic fans preaching whats best for Scottish football, consigning historic community clubs to the rubbish heap and believing that somehow thats enough for things to get miraculously better. Scottish football isnt going to get better with the same 50,000 people going to Ibrox or Celtic Park on a Saturday and countless more staying at home to watch football on TV.
 

Mr. T.

Well-Known Member
You’re missing the point. This chairman is openly admitting his club can’t exist without handouts. What has this club (and a number of similar clubs) ever done to deserve a handout? Have they produced great players? Great teams? Great managers? Do they attract large crowds based on the population of their towns? Have they ever done anything to improve the game in this country?

What about governance? They have a say in how the game is run, have they used that wisely? Or have they consistently voted in self interest? Face it, most of these teams offer nothing to the game and indeed are part of the reason Scotland is a footballing backwater. They exist purely to exist, never making any attempt to become better, to achieve anything other than surviving for another season. They should not be rewarded for decades of under-achievement. They either survive under their own steam or go to the wall - this current situation is simply the catalyst for what should have happened years ago (after all, the cartel of senior clubs refused to have promotion to/relegation from the bottom league for decades in an act of appalling self-preservation against competition from hungrier, better-run clubs).
The government at Westminster recognised the part that Rugby League clubs play in their communities when they gave them a cash boost recently. I’d argue that the Scottish Government should be looking at doing the same for exactly the same reason.
 

Mr. T.

Well-Known Member
Thats true but then there wpuld be less deman


You probably have a point but then REAL arrogance is this guy sitting on his hands and letting Thistle be relegated in a self serving, highly questionable vote when they were only 2 points behind his club, and with a game in hand.

And now he's gone public and bubbling about tough times and seeking handouts from the general public?

You'd think maybe, just maybe, he'd have the common decency to sit down and keep his big fucking trap closed.
Now that is a very good point.
 

Harrogate Bluenose

Well-Known Member
Albion Rovers average attendance is around 280

Take away family and friends of the players and you are much nearer 250 fans FFS

How can their vote possibly be a casting vote in any future proposal?

FFS Pollock get more than double Albion Rovers attendance and they are a junior team.

We have to many teams thinking they are a professional outfit and they are NOT

Their ground looks Junior level.

 

Rudolph Hucker

Well-Known Member
It's a Scottish problem. We don't have enough kids playing football from a young age. We don't have good enough coaching. We don't give enough opportunities for our youngsters to play competitive matches.

Parents don't take their kids along to games at their local ground. Too many people in Scotland can't be arsed going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. We're constantly told that lower league football is utterly worthless.
With 42 league clubs there should be plenty of opportunity for young players to play professionally. The fact that NONE of these clubs from the lower leagues ever produces any talent due to their inability to identify, coach or improve players simply proves my point.

If the smaller clubs produced a product worth watching then people would turn up to watch it. They don’t, so people don’t. There is no incentive for these clubs to be better so they are content to simply exist. That does nothing to raise the standard overall and is dinosaur thinking which has been holding the game back for decades.
 

Renfrew@UKGB&NI

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I disagree with a lot. Saying clubs shouldn't exist because they are not providing real competition is absolutely selfish, egotistical bullshit. Clubs exist for more than just winning things, although that will be the aim for all, football teams are a big part of local communities all across the world, bringing families and friends together. Not all fans were born into Rangers supporting families, or are glory hunters who just choose winning teams, some people enjoy supporting smaller clubs for various reasons, who are we to say what's right or wrong just because we have a history of success?

I'd personally be gutted if my local vets team went bust, because I have a great group of friends and it brings us all together. Matches to look forward to, things to talk about and share passions with. We don't compete for trophies, we win the odd game and enjoy the whole social aspect, being underdogs and beating adversity.

A lot of clubs will have to downsize for a period, and some may sadly go bust, but that's the same with more than just football clubs at the moment.
Good post sir. These clubs mean as much to local guys than Rangers mean to you or I. They stick with their local team, knowing fine well they'll never really win anything of note and have my respect for that.
 

bluestory

Well-Known Member
He has no shame whatsoever. He voted to finish the league as his team was in free fall and definitely going down. He is now in the local paper saying it will be great that Hearts are in the same league as them next season because their fans will bring them much needed income
He will be disappointed when no Jambos show up at his midden.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
With 42 league clubs there should be plenty of opportunity for young players to play professionally. The fact that NONE of these clubs from the lower leagues ever produces any talent due to their inability to identify, coach or improve players simply proves my point.

If the smaller clubs produced a product worth watching then people would turn up to watch it. They don’t, so people don’t. There is no incentive for these clubs to be better so they are content to simply exist. That does nothing to raise the standard overall and is dinosaur thinking which has been holding the game back for decades.
That would need the kids to be of the required quality and have the desire to play football. Too many kids in Scotland think that they've made it when they sign for a top flight pro-youth side. The majority aren't good enough and couldn't cope playing lower league football. I've seen plenty of top flight kids go out on loan to the lower leagues and struggle badly. Including those who are on our books.

The best Scottish player of his generation? Got his first taste of senior football at Queens Park.
 

Renfrew@UKGB&NI

Well-Known Member
That would need the kids to be of the required quality and have the desire to play football. Too many kids in Scotland think that they've made it when they sign for a top flight pro-youth side. The majority aren't good enough and couldn't cope playing lower league football. I've seen plenty of top flight kids go out on loan to the lower leagues and struggle badly. Including those who are on our books.

The best Scottish player of his generation? Got his first taste of senior football at Queens Park.
Agree with you mate. The hunger in scotland for playing football has more or less disappeared.

It used to be a way of life. In school and out of school. I dont see many playing football anywhere near the level it used to be. In fact, one of the busiest places in renfrew for the younger ones is now the skatepark.
 

dublinbluenose

Well-Known Member
Good post sir. These clubs mean as much to local guys than Rangers mean to you or I. They stick with their local team, knowing fine well they'll never really win anything of note and have my respect for that.
Growing up in angus with my dad and grandad both Montrose fans and went to games with them.I went to forfar games with my mates at school until I was old enough to go to Rangers games on my own,it’s changed days now but going to those games I saw Davie Cooper playing for clydebank,I watch Archie Knox cut his managerial teeth at forfar where at his hight a 6’000 crowd attended a second leg quarter final at station park v qots bearing in mind the population of forfar was ten thousand.one of my relatives back home runs an arbroath supporters club called the 36-0 asc he hardly misses a game home or away and he’s been doing it for years.i will always have a soft spot for those clubs and as much as they are criticized on here they won’t be the clubs that go to the wall,look further up the leagues for the clubs who will be in bother
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
Agree with you mate. The hunger in scotland for playing football has more or less disappeared.

It used to be a way of life. In school and out of school. I dont see many playing football anywhere near the level it used to be. In fact, one of the busiest places in renfrew for the younger ones is now the skatepark.
Pro Youth has been a monumental failure. Funding is concentrated on a few clubs. Those clubs aren't producing kids with the required ability and then giving them a routeway into first team football. Everybody else is cutting youth football budgets because it wasnt providing first team players or prospects that could be sold.

Scotland is losing it's football culture. Thats the biggest factor in all of this. Fewer people playing the game. Fewer people following the game. We need to arrest that decline.
 

prenzlauerbear

Well-Known Member
Will go against the grain here but hope none go out of existence from a purely football view point.
Their love of their club is comparable to anyone’s, think of the guys that support say Arbroath who travel every second week, who are we to take delight in taking that from them.
The machinations taking place by the corrupt SPFL have nothing to do with your average fan, so I hope they survive but think many won’t.
Nah, they're diddy teams. It's not the same at all.

Merge or find a new club to support. I'm sure they'll survive.
 
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