Questions I have posed to club 1872 prior to considering becoming a legacy member

C

Coisty09

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I thought it might be worth sharing four questions below that I have posed to Club 1872.
I have had some past experience in these matters and was involved in a successful share raise of £7m for a plc some 20 years ago.
Here is the email to which I am seeking a response. .


Dear Laura and team,
I am currently a member of Club 1872.
I am considering switching to a legacy membership.
However, given the level of extra investment, I would like to find out more about your plans as to how Club 1872 is to be run going forward.
I have the following questions.
1. Do you have plans to propose the appointment of remunerated professional directors to the board?
2. If so, will such individuals be regulated/members of a professional financial body?
3. What are your plans in respect of audit of the larger Club 1872?
4. Will Club 1872, as the largest shareholder in RIFC, have a director sitting on the main board of the football club? If so, can you advise on a proposed process for a selection of that individual(s).
Once I have your responses to these questions, I will make a decision as to whether I intend to take up the legacy membership opportunity.
 
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
 
@Coisty09 this, from their FAQ, may help towards answering at least some of your questions. Not them all, obviously.

Given what’s said in there, the Club 1872 rep on the Board could easily be the likes of Paul Murray, Walter Smith or even Dave King. If Club 1872 want to push this Legacy thing properly then they need to make that clear - and also get some figureheads on board with them - Gough? McCoist? - to mount the media campaign.


Will Club 1872 be involved in the day to day running of Rangers?

No. Club 1872 is a major shareholder but is not directly involved in the day to day running of the club. With a large shareholding, Club 1872 will be in a position to scrutinise the decisions made by the Executives and the Board of Rangers and work with them to grow and develop the club whilst representing the views and concerns of our members. As we grow our shareholding we will also, in line with the wishes of our members, seek formal representation on the Rangers Board. It will remain the job of the Executive Team to run Rangers on a day to day basis and make operational decisions.

How would Club 1872 be represented on the Rangers board?

As we build our shareholding and grow our membership through legacy donations, Club 1872 will re-enter discussions with Rangers about representation on the RIFC Board. It is important to stress that it will not be Club 1872 Directors who take up an RIFC Board position. The Directors will identify candidates who can not only represent Club 1872 but also make an important contribution to the RIFC board through their expertise and experience. The chosen candidate will then represent the organisation’s shareholding on the board and ensure that the views of Club 1872 members are represented at all times. This will not change the way Rangers Football Club is run on a day to day basis. Club 1872 would not be involved in day to day decision making at Rangers, but rather would retain oversight of that process through regular interaction with the Rangers Board and Executive Team
 
I was a member pre 2012. Didn't give Green etc any of my money then.

Keen to find out if C1872 will be set up for this venture. I'm not sending £650 to anyone without absolute certainty of its full worth! Will looking in as best I can to see if its worthwhile.
 
vinnie said:
I was a member pre 2012. Didn't give Green etc any of my money then.

Keen to find out if C1872 will be set up for this venture. I'm not sending £650 to anyone without absolute certainty of its full worth! Will looking in as best I can to see if its worthwhile.
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This ^^^^

If anyone thinks that I'm going to write a large cheque to Club 1872, no questions asked, is clearly smoking something not quite legal.
 
How would Club 1872 be represented on the Rangers board?

As we build our shareholding and grow our membership through legacy donations, Club 1872 will re-enter discussions with Rangers about representation on the RIFC Board. It is important to stress that it will not be Club 1872 Directors who take up an RIFC Board position. The Directors will identify candidates who can not only represent Club 1872 but also make an important contribution to the RIFC board through their expertise and experience. The chosen candidate will then represent the organisation’s shareholding on the board and ensure that the views of Club 1872 members are represented at all times. This will not change the way Rangers Football Club is run on a day to day basis. Club 1872 would not be involved in day to day decision making at Rangers, but rather would retain oversight of that process through regular interaction with the Rangers Board and Executive Team
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This is the most important paragraph, which should hopefully kill the accusations of 'blazer chasing'
 
Porto Loyal said:
This is the most important paragraph, which should hopefully kill the accusations of 'blazer chasing'
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Most appear to be missing that mate - or choose to ‘miss’ it. As I’ve said, Club 1872 could appoint Paul Murray, Walter Smith or even Dave King to represent them on the Board. There are endless options. It specifically states it will not be one of the Directors of Club 1872.
 
Having read some of those helpful posts above, I remain very concerned about the actual structure of club 1872 itself going forward.
I want the reassurance of the board members having professional financial qualifications and appropriate standards of compliance being applied on a daily basis.
I also want the appointment of recognized professional auditors so there is confidence the organization is being properly run.
We certainly don’t want to see anything similar to what has happened today at St Boo.
I want to make the investment but not hand money of that ilk over to well intentioned amateurs.
I got my financial fingers burnt by big hands Charlie and it was sickening to think I was one of thousands he robbed.
 
No doubt they mean well but can’t see the fans buying into this. I am a member of C1872 but will not be changing to a legacy member. As someone pointed out on another post if I was using that money to buy shares I’d want them in my name
 
I have been a member contributing since the RST days, they have had in excess of £1000.00 from me. I have nothing to show for that except the satisfaction of knowing I helped my club by contributing towards purchasing shares, when there was a share issue.

More importantly buying the Fatman's shares, and ridding the club of him.

As for waiting on big investors to stump up money towards this project, it aint going to happen. No one pumping money big into a project like this will be looking for a return on their investment.

No this will be down to the real honest fans like myself who have contributed, and asked for nothing in return to take up this offer.

The alternative is Dave King sells his shares on the open market, he gets his money back, the big money men buy his shares, and we are at their mercy.
 
Hillheadbear said:
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
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I totally agree.
I am basically in the same boat, in 2012 lost shares that had been in the family for many years I inherited, plus shares I bought including if I remember correctly when Murray did fund raising and I invested in the Green fundraising round. Life member of Club 1872 via the RST where I joined at first meeting, so very much in favour of an element at least of fan ownership in principle.
My concern is the transparency and governance of Club 1872. I don’t feel I get or have nearly enough information to put money into this at this point.
The FAQs that should have been sent with the email to members give some further information but not nearly enough.

Having retired not long ago from a career in running audit, risk and governance functions mainly in investment management I would expect far more than the emails this morning and brief documents on website before parting with cash.
I know it can be difficult to run something like Club 1872 as a director on a volunteer basis, but they need to ensure enough directors and volunteers with appropriate skills for what they are trying to do.
They also need to learn to communicate more effectively and have video meetings not just due to Covid but for us many Bears outside Glasgow who may want to buy into this plan.
It is good the FAQ makes clear that any Rangers Board Seat will be a nominated individual and not a Board Member of Club 1872. It is key that this person has the experience and gravitas to operate effectively at Board level and deal with the personal scrutiny that will no doubt ensue as a result.
 
Hillheadbear said:
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
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Fully agree with all of this.
I'm a lifetime member (or whatever it's called) of Club 1872 but don't contribute monthly as I wasn't clear in what they were actually doing, which is possibly my own fault for not investigating further. The fans cannot be expected to fire thousands into the pot without a much clearer plan with proper controls and governance.
I think the announcement and emails requesting cash were too hasty.
They need to pause, figure out a proper, professional and transparent roll out and they'll have a chance at raising significant funds, 13M I'm not so sure in the current economic climate.
 
Hillheadbear said:
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
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I agree totally. Carrying on as they have done and expecting the fans to lob in £13m I woudn’t think will happen. C1872 needs to professionalise its output and answer clearly and coherently the well founded questions and concerns that the fans have. If they don’t then I don’t see this coming anywhere close to working.
 
Arkyblue said:
No doubt they mean well but can’t see the fans buying into this. I am a member of C1872 but will not be changing to a legacy member. As someone pointed out on another post if I was using that money to buy shares I’d want them in my name
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If you are a member of club 1872 surely your money is already going into buying shares that are in club 1872's name, and not yours.
 
surfbear said:
I totally agree.
I am basically in the same boat, in 2012 lost shares that had been in the family for many years I inherited, plus shares I bought including if I remember correctly when Murray did fund raising and I invested in the Green fundraising round. Life member of Club 1872 via the RST where I joined at first meeting, so very much in favour of an element at least of fan ownership in principle.
My concern is the transparency and governance of Club 1872. I don’t feel I get or have nearly enough information to put money into this at this point.
The FAQs that should have been sent with the email to members give some further information but not nearly enough.

Having retired not long ago from a career in running audit, risk and governance functions mainly in investment management I would expect far more than the emails this morning and brief documents on website before parting with cash.
I know it can be difficult to run something like Club 1872 as a director on a volunteer basis, but they need to ensure enough directors and volunteers with appropriate skills for what they are trying to do.
They also need to learn to communicate more effectively and have video meetings not just due to Covid but for us many Bears outside Glasgow who may want to buy into this plan.
It is good the FAQ makes clear that any Rangers Board Seat will be a nominated individual and not a Board Member of Club 1872. It is key that this person has the experience and gravitas to operate effectively at Board level and deal with the personal scrutiny that will no doubt ensue as a result.
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There must be a good few retired (& working) bears that have this kind of experience. Maybe Club 1872 should ask for volunteers with the necessary skills to help run the organisation, in parallel with their employing the professional auditors and management that will be required.
 
Hillheadbear said:
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
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I agree. I also think they would get some decent traction from facility in allowing fans to buy the shares directly at that price. Would be much better if re-listed or plans to be re-listed.

I would buy more shares and happily proxy vote to Club 1872.
 
The Meik's Crombie said:
Like @Hillheadbear, I was a shareholder pre 2012. I did not take up the share offer under the blunt talking Yorkshireman and am not a member of Club 1872. However I would be willing to invest if Club 1872 can prove to be installing professional people (who are Bluenoses) to provide a central control to the divergent views of the broader membership.
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Almost exactly my position except I did invest under Green. So on the basis of once bitten (or twice bitten) twice shy. I‘d want trustworthy professional people to run this not ‘fans’ no disrespect intended.
 
The way it seems to me is like Real or Barca appointing a President. We'll appoint a President to represent us.
 
Hillheadbear said:
This ^^^^

If anyone thinks that I'm going to write a large cheque to Club 1872, no questions asked, is clearly smoking something not quite legal.
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Same here. I was an RST member originally contributing a decent monthly amount for some time. I need to know more before I plough in here.
 
Spent my life working in the financial world and at age 79 now retired and just a supporter of our great club. However I am never in favour of any club holding a majority share holding in any type of business and would like to see the shares held by a Rangers supporting investor who can buy immediately and then have further funds to put into the club.
We will need further investment at some point and our fans are already investing by buying STs and by other means which is sufficient without being asked for more.
 
surfbear said:
I totally agree.
I am basically in the same boat, in 2012 lost shares that had been in the family for many years I inherited, plus shares I bought including if I remember correctly when Murray did fund raising and I invested in the Green fundraising round. Life member of Club 1872 via the RST where I joined at first meeting, so very much in favour of an element at least of fan ownership in principle.
My concern is the transparency and governance of Club 1872. I don’t feel I get or have nearly enough information to put money into this at this point.
The FAQs that should have been sent with the email to members give some further information but not nearly enough.

Having retired not long ago from a career in running audit, risk and governance functions mainly in investment management I would expect far more than the emails this morning and brief documents on website before parting with cash.
I know it can be difficult to run something like Club 1872 as a director on a volunteer basis, but they need to ensure enough directors and volunteers with appropriate skills for what they are trying to do.
They also need to learn to communicate more effectively and have video meetings not just due to Covid but for us many Bears outside Glasgow who may want to buy into this plan.
It is good the FAQ makes clear that any Rangers Board Seat will be a nominated individual and not a Board Member of Club 1872. It is key that this person has the experience and gravitas to operate effectively at Board level and deal with the personal scrutiny that will no doubt ensue as a result.
Click to expand...

Like you, I also have an audit background. As a result, I have seen a lot of companies, some very well run, some not so much and most somewhere in the middle.

With ambitions to own 25% of the club, this isn't a supporters club on steroids that we are talking about. We are now getting into real business and we need real governance and a proper corporate structure.

Even though I'm a member of C1872 - life member via the RST - I haven't really paid too much attention partly because I'm overseas and partly because, in the grand scheme of Rangers, they didn't matter too much. That, however, is about to change.

When you have 25% of the shares, then you want to have - must have - a seat on the board. So you need a clear strategic vision of what you want to achieve as a major shareholder and that vision must be shared by the membership. The idea that, somehow, a C1872 director on the Rangers Board is independent of C1872 is nonsense.

Then there is how the investment is structured. If I put in £5,000 (for example), I want that investment recognised in voting rights and I want to be sure that I don't get 'blocked', 'ignored' or 'expelled' from C1872 at some time in the future. I also want to know what happens when I pass on. Does my investment die with me? Does C1872 get to keep the cash and nothing for me kids? If I don't like what C1872 are doing, am I allowed to withdraw and get my investment back? Would C1872 have rights of pre-emption over my investment?

That's a lot of questions and just scratching the surface. It is why C1872 needs professional advisors for a transaction of this size and type so that the dot the 'i's and cross the 't's just right.
 
Arkyblue said:
No doubt they mean well but can’t see the fans buying into this. I am a member of C1872 but will not be changing to a legacy member. As someone pointed out on another post if I was using that money to buy shares I’d want them in my name
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Then perhaps it should be shares in c1872 that are bought and its used as a vehicle to purchase Rangers shares? So you own shares in the company that owns shares in Rangers. Bit complicated to do it that way but it would ease the unknown quantities as we all like to "hold" something we've bought.
 
CheltBlue said:
Then perhaps it should be shares in c1872 that are bought and its used as a vehicle to purchase Rangers shares? So you own shares in the company that owns shares in Rangers. Bit complicated to do it that way but it would ease the unknown quantities as we all like to "hold" something we've bought.
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Actually, that would probably be the best way to structure this.
 
Hillheadbear said:
Like you, I also have an audit background. As a result, I have seen a lot of companies, some very well run, some not so much and most somewhere in the middle.

With ambitions to own 25% of the club, this isn't a supporters club on steroids that we are talking about. We are now getting into real business and we need real governance and a proper corporate structure.

Even though I'm a member of C1872 - life member via the RST - I haven't really paid too much attention partly because I'm overseas and partly because, in the grand scheme of Rangers, they didn't matter too much. That, however, is about to change.

When you have 25% of the shares, then you want to have - must have - a seat on the board. So you need a clear strategic vision of what you want to achieve as a major shareholder and that vision must be shared by the membership. The idea that, somehow, a C1872 director on the Rangers Board is independent of C1872 is nonsense.

Then there is how the investment is structured. If I put in £5,000 (for example), I want that investment recognised in voting rights and I want to be sure that I don't get 'blocked', 'ignored' or 'expelled' from C1872 at some time in the future. I also want to know what happens when I pass on. Does my investment die with me? Does C1872 get to keep the cash and nothing for me kids? If I don't like what C1872 are doing, am I allowed to withdraw and get my investment back? Would C1872 have rights of pre-emption over my investment?

That's a lot of questions and just scratching the surface. It is why C1872 needs professional advisors for a transaction of this size and type so that the dot the 'i's and cross the 't's just right.
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Totally agree.
They should be moving this to a professional basis before trying to collect the money for this potential purchase.
 
I'm a member from when RF transferred over but only at £5 per month and not currently in a position to switch to Legacy member.
This is due to a currently precarious employment situation that I hope will stabilise within the next 6 months.
If it does, I'll sign up in a heartbeat because I think this is a great initiative and the best way to prevent another episode of the banter years.
 
Coisty09 said:
I thought it might be worth sharing four questions below that I have posed to Club 1872.
I have had some past experience in these matters and was involved in a successful share raise of £7m for a plc some 20 years ago.
Here is the email to which I am seeking a response. .


Dear Laura and team,
I am currently a member of Club 1872.
I am considering switching to a legacy membership.
However, given the level of extra investment, I would like to find out more about your plans as to how Club 1872 is to be run going forward.
I have the following questions.
1. Do you have plans to propose the appointment of remunerated professional directors to the board?
2. If so, will such individuals be regulated/members of a professional financial body?
3. What are your plans in respect of audit of the larger Club 1872?
4. Will Club 1872, as the largest shareholder in RIFC, have a director sitting on the main board of the football club? If so, can you advise on a proposed process for a selection of that individual(s).
Once I have your responses to these questions, I will make a decision as to whether I intend to take up the legacy membership opportunity.
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I would definitely li,e to help but like many other fans I would like some answers regarding how club 1872 would be run as at the present time I don’t get very much information from them as at the present time just how many paces on the board are filled as there are supposed to be seven members on the board and I don’t know the last time the board had seven members on it I know we had two members have retired recently but I have not heard if those places have been filled to me there seems to be people working hard but not much professional action showing to get information-it out to the members it seem to me far to much is taken for granted by the directors from the membership as over the last few years the membership has been going down as members are saying they just take our money and know information is coming out to the members on a regular press release from the directors of club 1872 so I am willing to put money in but they need to give me a good business plan that they have going forward I don’t think thats to hard to ask for from the directors of club 1872. Albert Oribine.
 
I know this is asking a lot at this stage but I would like an option to own the shares myself and then proxy the vote to C1872. I’m not that keen on the idea where I get a peice of paper that basically says thanks for the £650.
 
We had videos and interviews galore with all our prominent message boards, podcasts, bloggers when it was Castore and involved getting a free hoodie. I've said before but this requires big boy conversations and as it involves fans I would hope the excellent fan led media have something in the pipeline to raise any concerns but also highlight the pros
 
roffey said:
I know this is asking a lot at this stage but I would like an option to own the shares myself and then proxy the vote to C1872. I’m not that keen on the idea where I get a peice of paper that basically says thanks for the £650.
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Doesn't stop the horror period happening again though, you can hold individual shares but it's the collective that is being offered by King as he feels this is the only way to never let the past be repeated.
 
Like others lost shares, bonds following the HMRC debacle, Paid £500 to Rangers First as fully paid up for life, they unified with Club1872 to which I have given further £480, to which .last month cancelled my DD, I wait to get further detail of what structure will take place as information given outfrom them has been minimal over past 18 months
 
This may have been covered so apologies if it has. But if Club 1872 don’t get the full amount, are they still going to buy the shares, but less of them? So say they get 10 mil, will Dave King still sell them that amount or does it have to be the full amount or nothing?
 
The Meik's Crombie said:
Like @Hillheadbear, I was a shareholder pre 2012. I did not take up the share offer under the blunt talking Yorkshireman and am not a member of Club 1872. However I would be willing to invest if Club 1872 can prove to be installing professional people (who are Bluenoses) to provide a central control to the divergent views of the broader membership.
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This is exactly what I was and same as you about investing in club 1872
 
I feel like this needs a Walter Smith type figurehead to get the fans behind it.

I'm ready to invest when the time comes, 650 quid to prevent future generations enduring what we've had to this last 8 years is an easy decision for me.

That said, I can fully understand anyone who is wary right now, C1872 have a lot of convincing to do.
 
Logged into my club1872 account and can no longer see my subscription and paid in to date. Tells me to contact admin if I contributed via rangers first. What’s that all about.
 
CheltBlue said:
Then perhaps it should be shares in c1872 that are bought and its used as a vehicle to purchase Rangers shares? So you own shares in the company that owns shares in Rangers. Bit complicated to do it that way but it would ease the unknown quantities as we all like to "hold" something we've bought.
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That actually seems a good idea. What do others think?
 
Agree with a lot of very good posts on this thread. I’m surprised we can go from Dave Kings announcement to collecting cash so quick and no corporate governance plan issued.

The sums of money involved means that this needs qualified people as full time employees to ensure this is done properly and a full explanation of how it will work before I commit.
 
Hillheadbear said:
First of all, I think this is a great opportunity for the support to hopefully 'future proof' the club from the likes of Ashley. I am personally very supportive of making this happen.

However, £13 million is a lot of money to be asking for. To get anywhere near that number they will need Bears who are willing to stump up several thousand in one go rather than a few hundred and they will need quite a lot of them.

So Club 1872 are going to have to do a lot of work to get these bigger investors on board. Sending out an email asking for legacy donations isn't going to cut it.

We need a complete brand rebuild, we need people at the top who have a track record in business, we need full transparency, we need professional advisors and auditors, we need proper governance, we need a comprehensive prospectus, we need to be confident in the integrity of those running the show and we need to know what their strategic vision of Rangers going forward is going to be.

I have money to invest. However, I had over 5,000 shares pre-2012 which are now worthless. I also invested through the RST at the Green share issue. So I'm going to want some reassurance before I pump in more of my hard-earned.
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Great post. I have just been made redundant (well more accurately taken VR) and have a decent sized cheque coming. In normal circumstances I wouldn’t think twice about dropping a large sum into C1872 but in covid times I have to look at my family first and be a bit more cautious with such decisions.

This on paper at this particular time looks a very hard bridge for C1872 to cross.
 
I’m not really clued up on c1872 as never had spare cash to invest.

What is a “legacy member”?
 
Hillheadbear said:
Like you, I also have an audit background. As a result, I have seen a lot of companies, some very well run, some not so much and most somewhere in the middle.

With ambitions to own 25% of the club, this isn't a supporters club on steroids that we are talking about. We are now getting into real business and we need real governance and a proper corporate structure.

Even though I'm a member of C1872 - life member via the RST - I haven't really paid too much attention partly because I'm overseas and partly because, in the grand scheme of Rangers, they didn't matter too much. That, however, is about to change.

When you have 25% of the shares, then you want to have - must have - a seat on the board. So you need a clear strategic vision of what you want to achieve as a major shareholder and that vision must be shared by the membership. The idea that, somehow, a C1872 director on the Rangers Board is independent of C1872 is nonsense.

Then there is how the investment is structured. If I put in £5,000 (for example), I want that investment recognised in voting rights and I want to be sure that I don't get 'blocked', 'ignored' or 'expelled' from C1872 at some time in the future. I also want to know what happens when I pass on. Does my investment die with me? Does C1872 get to keep the cash and nothing for me kids? If I don't like what C1872 are doing, am I allowed to withdraw and get my investment back? Would C1872 have rights of pre-emption over my investment?

That's a lot of questions and just scratching the surface. It is why C1872 needs professional advisors for a transaction of this size and type so that the dot the 'i's and cross the 't's just right.
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Giving this a bit more thought, whilst the governance and transparency improvements are necessary, I don't think the fans can look at this as any kind of normal investment that could be cashed in later, unless there was a collective agreement to sell all or a portion of the shares to an individual or consortium in the future.
I might be wrong, but my thinking is that you're basically giving the money to Club 1872 to ensure the club cannot be taken over by unwelcome spivs in the future. Conversely, it could prevent the club being bought by a well meaning philanthropist, if Club 1872 did not want them there.
Considering it's effectively a donation, I'm not sure you'll get too many investing more than the 500 or 650 initial legacy payment. Can we get 20,000 to do this? I'd say possibly if it''sold' well.
 
CheltBlue said:
Then perhaps it should be shares in c1872 that are bought and its used as a vehicle to purchase Rangers shares? So you own shares in the company that owns shares in Rangers. Bit complicated to do it that way but it would ease the unknown quantities as we all like to "hold" something we've bought.
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Is that not just a Proxy shares system like I have with my Rangers shares from Bank of Scotland?

Club 1872 is the holding company and we all get voting rights.

To date I’ve been very dissatisfied with club 1872. There’s been very little communications and little feeling of membership of anything really to date.

I’ve been donating since day 1 of Rangers first and have no idea how many existing members there are or how much of the £13million might already have been collected.
 
SG_Loyal said:
Giving this a bit more thought, whilst the governance and transparency improvements are necessary, I don't think the fans can look at this as any kind of normal investment that could be cashed in later, unless there was a collective agreement to sell all or a portion of the shares to an individual or consortium in the future.
I might be wrong, but my thinking is that you're basically giving the money to Club 1872 to ensure the club cannot be taken over by unwelcome spivs in the future. Conversely, it could prevent the club being bought by a well meaning philanthropist, if Club 1872 did not want them there.
Considering it's effectively a donation, I'm not sure you'll get too many investing more than the 500 or 650 initial legacy payment. Can we get 20,000 to do this? I'd say possibly if it''sold' well.
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They say that the quickest way to make a small fortune by buying into a football club is to start off with a large fortune.

In many ways it is a donation because the shares aren't really tradable and football clubs are generally a lousy investment. But as with any donation - charitable or otherwise - you don't just hand over a large sum of money and hope for the best and especially when it concerns Rangers which has an emotional hold over many of us.

We still want things to be done right, done professionally, done transparently, done with integrity and done in such a way that it meets the approval of the majority of members. You still want a say in how C1872 is run and you want a say in the strategic vision for Rangers.

In my opinion, £13 million is doable if it is done right.
 
I was a shareholder pre-2012. I was a member if the RST and life member of Rangers First. I bought shares in Green’s issue and have acquired more shares since. I am a member of, and monthly contributor to C1872. I am a huge supporter of us, as fans, having a significant shareholding in the holding company so that we can protect the club.

Therefore, in principle, I am very supportive of the current initiative. However... I couldn’t agree more with hillheadbear’s reservations. C1872 has not functioned as we all hoped. It’s not been open and transparent with members, it has not (to date) been an effective advocate for the members and support at large. It needs to change if it is to become a shareholder of the magnitude proposed.

When those details are forthcoming, I will likely back this campaign. If asked to help, I would offer to help (as I know would many professionals on here). But the details provided to date do not fill me with the required confidence.
 
I was a lifetime member of RST. I have been donating £18.72 a month since Club 1872 was set up despite being a pensioner. How do I know if I am a legacy member or not? Do I need to donate another £500 despite contributing nearly £250 each year?
 
Hillheadbear said:
Like you, I also have an audit background. As a result, I have seen a lot of companies, some very well run, some not so much and most somewhere in the middle.

With ambitions to own 25% of the club, this isn't a supporters club on steroids that we are talking about. We are now getting into real business and we need real governance and a proper corporate structure.

Even though I'm a member of C1872 - life member via the RST - I haven't really paid too much attention partly because I'm overseas and partly because, in the grand scheme of Rangers, they didn't matter too much. That, however, is about to change.

When you have 25% of the shares, then you want to have - must have - a seat on the board. So you need a clear strategic vision of what you want to achieve as a major shareholder and that vision must be shared by the membership. The idea that, somehow, a C1872 director on the Rangers Board is independent of C1872 is nonsense.

Then there is how the investment is structured. If I put in £5,000 (for example), I want that investment recognised in voting rights and I want to be sure that I don't get 'blocked', 'ignored' or 'expelled' from C1872 at some time in the future. I also want to know what happens when I pass on. Does my investment die with me? Does C1872 get to keep the cash and nothing for me kids? If I don't like what C1872 are doing, am I allowed to withdraw and get my investment back? Would C1872 have rights of pre-emption over my investment?

That's a lot of questions and just scratching the surface. It is why C1872 needs professional advisors for a transaction of this size and type so that the dot the 'i's and cross the 't's just right.
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Ditto.

My family own and run our own financial services business and I, like you, might be in a position to invest.

However, probably because I’m used to our family controlling all of our own affairs, I’m not great at handing control of any of our assets or affairs to anyone other than a thoroughly well and professionally qualified and tightly regulated individual or firm.

So, I’m coming round to being broadly supportive of all the objectives we’re hoping to achieve here, but I’m going to need a lot of convincing about the issues you’ve raised (and some others) before I’ll be handing significant funds over to anyone.

All that said, I actually think we are blessed within our wider fan base with many, many business owners and professional people who could support this initiative in the right circumstances.

I’ll be watching this develop with interest.
 
LJ50 said:
I was a shareholder pre-2012. I was a member if the RST and life member of Rangers First. I bought shares in Green’s issue and have acquired more shares since. I am a member of, and monthly contributor to C1872. I am a huge supporter of us, as fans, having a significant shareholding in the holding company so that we can protect the club.

Therefore, in principle, I am very supportive of the current initiative. However... I couldn’t agree more with hillheadbear’s reservations. C1872 has not functioned as we all hoped. It’s not been open and transparent with members, it has not (to date) been an effective advocate for the members and support at large. It needs to change if it is to become a shareholder of the magnitude proposed.

When those details are forthcoming, I will likely back this campaign. If asked to help, I would offer to help (as I know would many professionals on here). But the details provided to date do not fill me with the required confidence.
Click to expand...
Like yourself I was a shareholder. Got them in 1978 and obviously lost them when everything went tits up in 2012,
Give monthly contribution to C1872 and could make a £650 one off quite easily from what I've saved not coming up for the match or going to the pub during recent times. However like yourself and previous posters, some with financial backgrounds, I think there has to be more information in the details and who is going to be the voice of C1872 on the board and how that person will be chosen/elected.
 
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