Radio Clyde(Hollicom) stance on child protection

No, but if you don't, you become an accessory in that crime.

The true wording is "an accessory to the fact".

In other words, just as guilty as those who commited the crime.
To the best of my knowledge, in Scotland at least, an accessory is a person who aids the perpetrator of a crime before or at the time of the crime by providing advice or assistance or who acts in concert by looking out while the crime is committed.Again, to the best of my knowledge any actions after the crime has been committed does not constitute an accessory.
 
Definition. An accessory-after-the-fact is someone who assists 1) someone who has committed a crime, 2) after the person has committed the crime, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment.
 

borderbluenose

Well-Known Member
To the best of my knowledge, in Scotland at least, an accessory is a person who aids the perpetrator of a crime before or at the time of the crime by providing advice or assistance or who acts in concert by looking out while the crime is committed.Again, to the best of my knowledge any actions after the crime has been committed does not constitute an accessory.
By knowing and not reporting allowing it to continue is an accessory to the crime
 

Blue 9

Well-Known Member
To the best of my knowledge, in Scotland at least, an accessory is a person who aids the perpetrator of a crime before or at the time of the crime by providing advice or assistance or who acts in concert by looking out while the crime is committed.Again, to the best of my knowledge any actions after the crime has been committed does not constitute an accessory.
So covering up or aiding the concealment of a criminal act does not constitute being an accessory .
I have often found that it's better to keep your own council when by your own admission you don't know what your talking about.
 
Definition. An accessory-after-the-fact is someone who assists 1) someone who has committed a crime, 2) after the person has committed the crime, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the crime, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment.
I think you are getting confused with English law here ML:

Art and part is a term used in Scots law to denote the aiding or abetting in the perpetration of a crime, or being an accessory before or at the perpetration of the crime. There is no such offence recognised in Scotland, as that of being an accessory after the fact.[1]

Under section 293 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995,[2] a person may be convicted of, and punished for, a contravention of any enactment, notwithstanding that he was guilty of such contravention as art and part only.
 

LOL 133

Well-Known Member
No, but if you don't, you become an accessory in that crime.

The true wording is "an accessory to the fact".

In other words, just as guilty as those who commited the crime.
I dont think that's accurate. If you witness a bank robbery but dont report it you aren't "as guilty as those who committed the crime".

The point though is Celtic's apologists are making out they did nothing wrong 'legally' by not reporting the abuse. That is ridiculous.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I think you are getting confused with English law here ML:

Art and part is a term used in Scots law to denote the aiding or abetting in the perpetration of a crime, or being an accessory before or at the perpetration of the crime. There is no such offence recognised in Scotland, as that of being an accessory after the fact.[1]

Under section 293 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995,[2] a person may be convicted of, and punished for, a contravention of any enactment, notwithstanding that he was guilty of such contravention as art and part only.
Why did you omit the following from your post?

Without prejudice to subsection (1) above or to any express provision in any enactment having the like effect to this subsection, any person who aids, abets, counsels, procures or incites any other person to commit an offence against the provisions of any enactment shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction, unless the enactment otherwise requires, to the same punishment as might be imposed on conviction of the first-mentioned offence.
 
A truly disgusting radio station, shame on everyone connected to it. To put covering up the crimes at the Pedo Dome, before the victims, is a new low even for Clyde.
What’s new about it? They are a broadcaster who have categorically refused to discuss the issue for nigh on 40 years!
 
Why did you omit the following from your post?

Without prejudice to subsection (1) above or to any express provision in any enactment having the like effect to this subsection, any person who aids, abets, counsels, procures or incites any other person to commit an offence against the provisions of any enactment shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction, unless the enactment otherwise requires, to the same punishment as might be imposed on conviction of the first-mentioned offence.
It wasn't available in my reference item.In my view.it doesn't alter the point that I was making- There is no such offence recognised in Scotland, as that of being an accessory after the fact.[1]
 
Do not know if this Guardian article has been highlighted before. All I can say is a grateful thanks to my ancestors for being part the reformation. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...s-church-failure-child-abuse-scandals-vatican
Right at the very bottom of that piece is the sentence “support the Guardian from as little as £1 which is prequaled by the following

The Guardian will engage with the most critical issues of our time – from the escalating climate catastrophe to widespread inequality to the influence of big tech on our lives. At a time when factual information is a necessity, we believe that each of us, around the world, deserves access to accurate reporting with integrity at its heart”............


oh really? that’s interesting but maybe even more applicable is this

And unlike many news organisations, we have chosen an approach that allows us to keep our journalism accessible to all, regardless of where they live or what they can afford. But we need your ongoing support to keep working as we do.
Our editorial independence means we set our own agenda and voice our own opinions.”


Just a suggestion here but what about a £10,000 donation from the fighting fund to point their intentions towards the biggest scandal in world sport with the intention of seeing just how serious they are?
 

skorn

Well-Known Member
Just my opinion, but I'd have thought that when CFC brought Torbett back into the fold, for him to abuse again, then they actively "aided" him in his crimes.

Their knowledge of what he had done, and their deliberate action in placing him back into the very place that he had broken the law before, for him to commit more offences -- surely that constitutes liability ??
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
The point though is Celtic's apologists are making out they did nothing wrong 'legally' by not reporting the abuse. That is ridiculous.
As far as I know there is no legal requirement to report, but it's a morale code to follow as every adult should safeguard children. Most employers will have a child protection policy to promote staff report concerns.

Regardless of the fact I agree, the tweet in the OP is callous and dismissive in tone, which is horrendous.
 
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LOL 133

Well-Known Member
As far as I know there is no legal requirement to report, but it's a morale code to follow as every adult should safeguard children. Most employers will have a child protection policy to promote staff report concerns.

Regardless of the fact I agree, the tweet in the OP is callous and dismissive in tone, which is horrendous.
I worked as a Child Protection Caseworker for the ACT Government in Australia. We did training on mandatory reporting but I never came across a case where anyone was prosecuted for not reporting. It just seems obvious to me that any decent person would report, mandated or not. Celtic's history in this regard is "shameful" to quote Andy Walker, though he was referring to our use of EBTs.
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
I worked as a Child Protection Caseworker for the ACT Government in Australia. We did training on mandatory reporting but I never came across a case where anyone was prosecuted for not reporting. It just seems obvious to me that any decent person would report, mandated or not. Celtic's history in this regard is "shameful" to quote Andy Walker, though he was referring to our use of EBTs.
We do mandatory training for NHS and it's emphasised how much of an obligation adults, rightly, have to safeguard children and report concerns, but no mention of legal obligation.

You would rightly assume that anyone with morals/normal wouldn't just shrug and not report anything. I think the word "shameful" is pretty apt in this respect.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I worked as a Child Protection Caseworker for the ACT Government in Australia. We did training on mandatory reporting but I never came across a case where anyone was prosecuted for not reporting. It just seems obvious to me that any decent person would report, mandated or not. Celtic's history in this regard is "shameful" to quote Andy Walker, though he was referring to our use of EBTs.

This is NOT a failure to report. We need to realise this is a 4 decade long WILLFULLY CONTRIVED COVER UP BACKED FULLY BY CELTC AND THE ESTABLISHMENT!

Sorry for shouting mate. ;)
 

Turrabear

Well-Known Member
Not reporting it is aiding that person/persons to avoid arrest or punishment.
Don,t think that this would app,y to Clyde.the crime is already known and out in the open.as far as we know radio Clyde played no part in the crime or witnessed the crime .what they are doing is morally wrong but not a criminal act in its self.
At no point have radio Clyde stoped a person or persons being punished .If they have information on the crime and haven,t reported it to the police then they would have covered up the crime.
Celtic on the other hand knew about the crime yet deliberately covered it up.
 

Timardim

Well-Known Member
I think you are getting confused with English law here ML:

Art and part is a term used in Scots law to denote the aiding or abetting in the perpetration of a crime, or being an accessory before or at the perpetration of the crime. There is no such offence recognised in Scotland, as that of being an accessory after the fact.[1]

Under section 293 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995,[2] a person may be convicted of, and punished for, a contravention of any enactment, notwithstanding that he was guilty of such contravention as art and part only.

What about American law if it ends up there?
 
I worked as a Child Protection Caseworker for the ACT Government in Australia. We did training on mandatory reporting but I never came across a case where anyone was prosecuted for not reporting. It just seems obvious to me that any decent person would report, mandated or not. Celtic's history in this regard is "shameful" to quote Andy Walker, though he was referring to our use of EBTs.
Have you came across many cases when a sporting corporation actively covered up hundreds of cases of sickening child abuse .
Even went to the length of printing in the media that the claims had been "scurrilous" and then went on to claim that they were a "seperate entity "and then hired a group of spin doctors to twist the narrative /

Just asking for a friend .
 

BillySimpson

Well-Known Member
Right at the very bottom of that piece is the sentence “support the Guardian from as little as £1 which is prequaled by the following

The Guardian will engage with the most critical issues of our time – from the escalating climate catastrophe to widespread inequality to the influence of big tech on our lives. At a time when factual information is a necessity, we believe that each of us, around the world, deserves access to accurate reporting with integrity at its heart”............


oh really? that’s interesting but maybe even more applicable is this

And unlike many news organisations, we have chosen an approach that allows us to keep our journalism accessible to all, regardless of where they live or what they can afford. But we need your ongoing support to keep working as we do.
Our editorial independence means we set our own agenda and voice our own opinions.”


Just a suggestion here but what about a £10,000 donation from the fighting fund to point their intentions towards the biggest scandal in world sport with the intention of seeing just how serious they are?
Get real. They report about every topic under the sun. It's a paper, not a govt body, they can't give 10K to combat every evil every time they write about it. Who should they give it to? How much have You given?
 

Papasmurf

Scum Evictor
Official Ticketer
Exactly. Too many have fallen for the hype fro Hellicom and RC. Covered up and encouraged to flourish.
Exactly. Celtic acted in full knowledge of what was going on, they re employed a known paedo and further kids were sexually abused. They are as guilty as those who committed the heinous acts.

And they refuse to acknowledge it.

They are scum. And the fact there are no Celtic fans shouting for them to do the right thing makes every single supporter of their disgusting club makes them all scumbags as well.
 
Get real. They report about every topic under the sun. It's a paper, not a govt body, they can't give 10K to combat every evil every time they write about it. Who should they give it to? How much have You given?
Have given plenty, both time and money but thanks for asking. Yourself ? Just curious here but since you believe it’s unreal to suggest we test the integrity of a publication who openly profess to tackle issues that others won’t, I take it you’ve got something constructive to offer ?
 

BillySimpson

Well-Known Member
Have given plenty, both time and money but thanks for asking. Yourself ? Just curious here but since you believe it’s unreal to suggest we test the integrity of a publication who openly profess to tackle issues that others won’t, I take it you’ve got something constructive to offer ?
I just thought it was a bit absurd to suggest that every topic the paper covers, be it sex abuse in the catholic church, or the homeless or the environment, or malaria, they should give a 10K donation to the cause. It's a newspaper ffs. But I respect you if you've given cash and time to highlight the deviancy at cfc.
 
I just thought it was a bit absurd to suggest that every topic the paper covers, be it sex abuse in the catholic church, or the homeless or the environment, or malaria, they should give a 10K donation to the cause. It's a newspaper ffs. But I respect you if you've given cash and time to highlight the deviancy at cfc.
We’re at cross wires here.

Somebody on the thread posted the article in the guardian. What caught my eye was the paper’s appeal for funding to continue independent investigative journalism ( you know that rare commodity that doesn’t seem to exist in Scotland) anyway I’ve read back my previous post now and could have made it clearer but I was suggesting WE made a donation from our Rangers fighting fund with the sole aim for them to probe the elephant in the room up here.
 

BillySimpson

Well-Known Member
We’re at cross wires here.
m
Somebody on the thread posted the article in the guardian. What caught my eye was the paper’s appeal for funding to continue independent investigative journalism ( you know that rare commodity that doesn’t seem to exist in Scotland) anyway I’ve read back my previous post now and could have made it clearer but I was suggesting WE made a donation from our Rangers fighting fund with the sole aim for them to probe the elephant in the room up here.
I'm sorry - I misread your post! My "senior moments" are becoming more frequent nowadays . . . .
 
Right at the very bottom of that piece is the sentence “support the Guardian from as little as £1 which is prequaled by the following

The Guardian will engage with the most critical issues of our time – from the escalating climate catastrophe to widespread inequality to the influence of big tech on our lives. At a time when factual information is a necessity, we believe that each of us, around the world, deserves access to accurate reporting with integrity at its heart”............


oh really? that’s interesting but maybe even more applicable is this

And unlike many news organisations, we have chosen an approach that allows us to keep our journalism accessible to all, regardless of where they live or what they can afford. But we need your ongoing support to keep working as we do.
Our editorial independence means we set our own agenda and voice our own opinions.”


Just a suggestion here but what about a £10,000 donation from the fighting fund to point their intentions towards the biggest scandal in world sport with the intention of seeing just how serious they are?
There’s nowt left in the RFFF Mate !
 

LOL 133

Well-Known Member
This is NOT a failure to report. We need to realise this is a 4 decade long WILLFULLY CONTRIVED COVER UP BACKED FULLY BY CELTC AND THE ESTABLISHMENT!

Sorry for shouting mate. ;)
I agree but the point we're discussing is Celtic's claim that there is no legal requirement to report. They are deliberately moving the goal posts.

Two points.

First they are guilty of a lot more than not reporting, as you rightly point out.

Secondly. They had a moral obligation to report.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I agree but the point we're discussing is Celtic's claim that there is no legal requirement to report. They are deliberately moving the goal posts.

Two points.

First they are guilty of a lot more than not reporting, as you rightly point out.

Secondly. They had a moral obligation to report.
True mate. ;)

I just wish the cowards that write these articles (that are sanitised to keep on the right side of celtcs legal team) would be brave enough to use these 2 words more often LOL 133:


Cover-up!

Cover-up!

Cover-up!

Cover-up!
 
Extract from Lou Macari’s autobiography posted on Follow Follow in 2013
“Away from first-team and club matters, which were bad enough, another issue was beginning to raise its ugly head at the club. Within a month of my arrival one of the young players asked to see me in my office. 'Here we go,' I thought. 'That didn't take long. Here's a youngster in to complain about not being in the team. Straight away he's going to be into me to give him his chance.' He sat down and told me that he had had problems on a trip to North America with the youth team. One of the fellas in charge had made advances towards him.

As a manager you expect to have to sort out all sorts of problems. But this wasn't one I ever saw coming. I was staggered. To be frank, I didn't know how to respond for the best. Clearly the kid was distressed about what had happened, but I felt I couldn't just approach the accused and ask him to explain himself without proof. My hands were tied, in a way. I felt completely stuck and out of my depth. I spoke to my staff. They were shocked. My gut feeling was that the kid was speaking the truth, but there was no mechanism within the club or within my experience to deal with it. It was a police matter if anything. Any investigation had to start with them.
And that's exactly what happened.

A couple of years later it all came out. Celtic Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett was convicted of sexual abuse of three players, including Alan Brazil.

Frank Cairney, the manager of the Boys' Club, was charged but not convicted. It emerged that years earlier Jock Stein knew all about Torbett and kicked him out of the club. The wish to maintain the good name of Celtic, if that were ever a good enough reason, was the only thing that kept the issue from coming to light at that point. There was a string of allegations by young lads whose dreams of playing for Celtic were exploited, but it was the testimony of Alan Brazil, David Gordon and James McGrory that brought the matter to court, and Torbett to justice.” [from Football, My Life. by LOU MACARI]
 
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