Rangers B in the lower league system of Scottish football?

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
I know loads of them actually. I've got friends heavily involved at a few of the lower league clubs.

It's not a matter of falling in to line. It's about modernising and surviving.
You don't know them that we'll when it comes to their football clubs then.

Lower league fans have rejected games involving colt teams. They simply stay away. Shoehorning kids teams into a competitive league division isn't going to suddenly convince Clyde fans, Forfar fans or Stenny fans to embrace 4 or 6 home games a season against Rangers or Celtic kids in the hope that 4th place would give them automatic promotion and 5th to 7th would be a playoff spot.
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
If you think that fans of lower league clubs are going to simply fall into line then you're kidding yourself and don't know any fans of lower league clubs.
So the fans of Forfar and Albion Rovers, all 300 of them, will stop following their team because four times a season they havevto play us and them?
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
De ligt and De jong played about 40 games each for Jong ajax
40 games. Not exactly years of development is it?

It's the 40 games for Jong Ajax that did it and not at all the top quality coaching and care they've been given since they were7 years old.
 

millar2318

Well-Known Member
40 games. Not exactly years of development is it?

It's the 40 games for Jong Ajax that did it and not at all the top quality coaching and care they've been given since they were7 years old.
Well for de Jong it was 2 years Of development before progressing to the first team and a European cup semi final

I'd say it was an integral part of their pathway in addition to the early years coaching

See if it's not a good idea, what's the point in Madrid, Barca and bayern etc having them? Surely a waste of resource going by your wisdom?
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Absolutely not.

Lower league football deserves better than to be treated as nothing more than a tool of the top flight to play kids they have no intention of playing in top flight games.

If players are good enough to play professional football then by all means loan them to a team who will play them. They'll learn far more from being in a dressing room with professionals who are actually playing for their livelihoods. They'll learn more by playing in a dressing room that's fighting for promotion or battling against relegation. They'll learn nothing playing games against opponents who won't care a jot about games against them because the colt teams would be pegged back to a low level and the rest of a particular division would effectively be playing for promotion from 3rd or 4th place.

If the kids are good enough then get them playing for their parent clubs. If they need to be developed then let them develop by playing meaningful football at a proper lower league club. We need to value lower league football, not treat clubs and supporters with utter contempt.
Probably better tell the spaniards, the germans, the portugese and the dutch they are doing it wrong and should look at the scottish/sfa blueprint for producing and developing young players as we have been doing so well.

Oh and mibby tell lionel messi + 9 of the starting 11 of the spanish world cup winning team whose development was through the spanish b league system.

:)):)):))
 

strathavenbear

Well-Known Member
Radical idea

If they're showing potential at 18 or 19 then why not play them in meaningful games?
Showing promise doesn't mean you're ready for a game in the top league though.
I just don't think getting a start in a league cup game and 4 or 5 run outs from the bench will greatly benefit the likes of Mebude next season, where as a season of competive football at a higher standard would
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
You don't know them that we'll when it comes to their football clubs then.

Lower league fans have rejected games involving colt teams. They simply stay away. Shoehorning kids teams into a competitive league division isn't going to suddenly convince Clyde fans, Forfar fans or Stenny fans to embrace 4 or 6 home games a season against Rangers or Celtic kids in the hope that 4th place would give them automatic promotion and 5th to 7th would be a playoff spot.
Perhaps my friends are you and more progressive than the ones you know and they realise there is a need for change.

You can't possibly tell how well I know them or not with regards football or what my friends views are on it all.

I think I'll end this here on that basis.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
So the fans of Forfar and Albion Rovers, all 300 of them, will stop following their team because four times a season they havevto play us and them?
They'll stay away from those games. Absolutely. They're already doing exactly that in the cup. You don't need to like it but that's exactly what fans are doing.

The handful of traveling colt team fans won't make up the shortfall in income. If you're stuck in a division with 3 colt teams then you're looking at 6 utterly dismal home gates from a season of 18 home games.

Do you limit it to 2 colt teams - the old firm?
Why should the 2 Edinburgh clubs miss out?
Or Aberdeen?

Do you let all 5 colt teams potentially compete up to League One? Or The Championship? Do you limit them to league two? Or the Highland/Lowland leagues? What will a kid learn playing League Two football that will help him jump immediately to a top flight side? Andy Robertson at least went from Queens park to the Arabs to continue his development. He was playing teams that were competing for something.

It would be far better for Scottish football to have fewer divisions. Bigger leagues. Remove the fear factor from playing kids in competitive fixtures. Expand the top 2 leagues to either 16 or 18 teams each and regionalise tier 3 and below. You'd see more managers willing to play kids in meaningful games.
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
Self hate is believing that stacking lower league football with colts teams and expecting fans to simply fall into line.

And despite how radical and forward thinking our coaches are supposed to be, I've never seen a top flight loaned in league one or league two who could compete with the adults around them who was younger than 21, and even then it was 1 player (Dom Thomas).

Even kids who went to the championship on loan were woefully ill prepared. Aidan Wilson? Liam Burt? Liam Lindsay? Jack Aitchison? Daniel Harvie? Danny Rodgers? We simply don't develop the talent from a young age to a standard where they will ever be good enough to be good top flight players. Trying to give them those skills by the time they're 18 or 19 is a losing battle that colt football isn't going to fix.
 

Ter

Well-Known Member
I think there is a place for a restricted number of B-Teams outside of the top flight but ONLY if the lower leagues are expanded to allow more movement of clubs between each tier. It is boring playing the same teams over and over again. 7 matches for Rangers against Aberdeen and Kilmarnock last season is far too much and takes the edge off these games when they come around so frequently. I know we have issues with 4x Old Firm games contributing to the TV deal and global interest but a restructure would make sense so teams only play each other home and away in lower leagues.

Premier (14 teams, top 6/ bottom 8 split)
Champ (18 teams, 2 B-Teams permitted, none start in this tier)
National (18 teams, 3 B-Teams permitted, 2 start in this tier)
Highland / Lowland West / Lowland East

This would mean a lot of teams are at least a step closer to the top tier and even if they are relegated the teams are still only a couple of promotions away from tier 2.

Regarding the B-Teams if there are 2 in the Championship who don't finish in relegation places and a B-Team in National finish in a promotion place then there would be a play-off between the two B-Teams to see who takes the higher place to keep sensible limits.

I think that would be a good starting point and if more promotion/relegation places between leagues are opened up then it will make things a bit more exciting with more movement between leagues.

At most you would have 5 B-Teams across 2 divisions if, over time, others get promoted.

There needs to be something done to help players (especially at big clubs) develop from youth football to first team football as there is a massive gap at the moment that players are falling into and stagnating. The loans work to a certain extent but it takes the development outside of the club control at times and doesn't seem to be helping develop players enough. Time to try something new that works for a lot of players in other countries. Loads of the Ajax team that done so well in the Champions League played for Jong Ajax in the Dutch 2nd tier before playing for the first team.
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
Where's the evidence that Rangers and Celtic Colts would lead to increased attendances in the lower leagues?

Whenever our Colts play lower league teams in the Irn-Bru Cup, attendances actually go down. No fans go to watch our current Colts when they play in a cup competition, why would a league be any different?
 

Ter

Well-Known Member
Where's the evidence that Rangers and Celtic Colts would lead to increased attendances in the lower leagues?

Whenever our Colts play lower league teams in the Irn-Bru Cup, attendances actually go down. No fans go to watch our current Colts when they play in a cup competition, why would a league be any different?
At the moment there isn't any real push for fans to attend these games by the club. In a proper league competition there would be scheduled games people could plan ahead to attend and if done sensibly and scheduled so they are not on at the same time/day as the main team then fans would be able to attend both over a weekend.

I'd imagine there would be some TV/broadcasting interest in these games even if it is just Rangers TV that could bring in revenue.
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
At the moment there isn't any real push for fans to attend these games by the club. In a proper league competition there would be scheduled games people could plan ahead to attend and if done sensibly and scheduled so they are not on at the same time/day as the main team then fans would be able to attend both over a weekend.

I'd imagine there would be some TV/broadcasting interest in these games even if it is just Rangers TV that could bring in revenue.
I'm not convinced. People already have the opportunity to go and watch the Colts and they don't. Anyone can just turn up at HTC and take in a game.

And Rangers TV doesn't make a single penny for our opponent, we keep that revenue. There's nothing in it for other teams.
 

Ter

Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced. People already have the opportunity to go and watch the Colts and they don't. Anyone can just turn up at HTC and take in a game.
They are often played on weekday afternoons when a lot of people won't be able to attend. There is also little or no promotion from the club about these games.

Mostly weekend matches for example Rangers v Hibs on a Saturday and Forfar v Rangers B on a Sunday would no doubt see a decent attendance, especially from bears in that area who would go along. There would also be a lot of interest in watching it online if available.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
It would be a brilliant idea, nearly every big team in Europe has a B team. It’s a shame it won’t happen. Allows us to test young talent against players in a good level.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced. People already have the opportunity to go and watch the Colts and they don't. Anyone can just turn up at HTC and take in a game.

And Rangers TV doesn't make a single penny for our opponent, we keep that revenue. There's nothing in it for other teams.
The vast majority of games are on in afternoons in weekdays when people are working. New stand at the Hummel Training Centre can encourage people to attend on weekends.
 

Big Buff

Well-Known Member
The vast majority of games are on in afternoons in weekdays when people are working. New stand at the Hummel Training Centre can encourage people to attend on weekends.
Even if we filled that new stand, it would still be about half of the average attendance for a League 2 game.

Until we can offer a proposal where there's something in it for Annan Athletic and Peterhead, then I don't see this ever coming to pass. And short of filling their pockets with cash, I'm not sure we can give them such a proposal.

We'd be far better off developing a relationship with a full-time team in the Championship to enable them to become our feeder team. Someone like QOTS.
 

Ter

Well-Known Member
We'd be far better off developing a relationship with a full-time team in the Championship to enable them to become our feeder team. Someone like QOTS.
I'd be all for that if the rules allowed it. Currently we can only send out 2 players on loan to another club outside the Premiership. Think they had something similar to that in Holland before allowing B-Teams.

If the rules were to change then a better option geographically would maybe be Dumbarton where they get to use our training facilities and we loan them several players at a time and could help them out with the coaching as well.
 

Leo_Ger

Well-Known Member
Absolutely not.

Lower league football deserves better than to be treated as nothing more than a tool of the top flight to play kids they have no intention of playing in top flight games.

If players are good enough to play professional football then by all means loan them to a team who will play them. They'll learn far more from being in a dressing room with professionals who are actually playing for their livelihoods. They'll learn more by playing in a dressing room that's fighting for promotion or battling against relegation. They'll learn nothing playing games against opponents who won't care a jot about games against them because the colt teams would be pegged back to a low level and the rest of a particular division would effectively be playing for promotion from 3rd or 4th place.

If the kids are good enough then get them playing for their parent clubs. If they need to be developed then let them develop by playing meaningful football at a proper lower league club. We need to value lower league football, not treat clubs and supporters with utter contempt.
Major footballing nations seem to do alright by treating their lower league clubs and supporters with utter contempt by having them with play B teams.

Yet somehow not good enough for a footballing backwater.
 

joefraser

Well-Known Member
All the Scottish teams are against it.

They think that we’ll have two teams, our ‘B’ team will work there way up to the top tier and our main team will move down to England.

That’s why it’ll never get voted through
So is it possible to go the other way then and put, in effect, a Rangers B team in the English pyramid and let them work their way up the leagues. As much as the lower leagues in England lack a bit of quality, I don't think the hammer throwers are so prevalent.
 
Top