Rangers braced for bombshell punishment over sectarian singing (vs St Joseph’s at Ibrox)

They could try but they would have less success. This idea what we sing is irrelevant to all this is nonsense.

The Northern Ireland national team has a similar set of enemies who would love nothing more than to see it ended and who seek to damage its reputation at every turn.

About 20 years ago the NI fans made a determined effort to clean up the atmosphere at games - it has been a massive success story, better atmosphere, more fans at games, and now one of the most highly regarded set of supporters in international football. Still have all the same enemies but they don’t have anything like as much success in their efforts.

And no NI supporter is any less Protestant, Unionist, or British for it.

We will prove nothing and achieve nothing by insisting on singing the two or three songs and add ons that are an open goal for our enemies. We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and use our brains.
Now THAT'S the blueprint we need to follow.
 
Been speaking with some family members about this whole thing (older rangers fans) who tend to be slightly more old school than me.

I’ve been thinking for a long time around the need to sing certain songs you hear every week, like ones which mention the likes of Bobby sands for whatever reason.

its interesting hearing them talk about it cause the general consensus seems to be ‘but it’s not sectarian to sing about the IRA’ and debating what the word ‘19th Century Terrorist’ actually represents.

I’m not negating the value of this debate, because our friends across the city consistently help prove the point that it shouldn’t be considered a slur given the context in which they use it, but I think the same point remains - why do we need to evern sing about these things. I fail to see the link with our football club and a lot of the songs we sing, not just the ones that are considered off limits.

Rangers is most certainly steeped in the culture of Britishness, Protestantism and Ulster and I don’t think that should ever be forgotten or belittled as it’s an important part of our history and identity. It just feels like a cross roads moment - and it seems to me that we’re generally in agreement on here that most of it should be left in the past.

Just thought it was interesting the differing viewpoints from myself and my older family members, and I feel generally speaking the younger rangers fans viewpoint is represented on FF which is probably why I tend to agree with the general feeling enough on here, whereas my grandad and his mates are likely having a different conversation entirely.
 
Is this from the Celtic Fans Against Rangers (FARE) mob?
It’s just bent as fuuck. How did these scumbags get funding to carry out their anti-Rangers agenda in the first place? How did they get into UEFA? I am absolutely convinced that Celtc’s connections in UEFA are how these rhats got involved.
 
Really not interested in explaining this to you again. Your post in no way reflects my point (or reality) and that's happening too much in this conversation. Do you actually think my argument was 'people want to go to hear FTP at the football', or even that it is a nice thing to say? Of course not.
I can’t be bothered going back over your posts, but you did say we wouldn’t get done for singing FTP. I’m telling you we will. Now I’m off to have a lovely gin and watch the telly. Goodnight.
 
It’s not just the word 19th Century Terrorist, nor FTP. It’s any chant or song that could be considered denigrating any other persons race, nationality, religion, sexuality or gender.

They focus on us because we have past history. We were warned by the club and others that they were gunning for us.

Celebrate your culture by all means but in a positive way, not by using discriminatory language
Any celebration of Protestantism in modern day Scotland is frowned upon.
 
Now THAT'S the blueprint we need to follow.

It’s a proven successful route through what we are facing with a support that faced very similar issues.

Needs engagement and close coordination between the club and supporters groups to make it work. Just saying don’t sing this won’t work.

Maybe the club should contact the IFA and look at the blueprint because it has undoubtedly been a massive success for Northern Ireland on all fronts.
 
What happens if we’ve been reported for any of the games after St Joesph’s?

It seems a genuine concern to me. It would be utter shithousery from UEFA, but then they’re one of the world’s most corrupt organisations, so wouldn’t be shocked if they pulled something like that.

They should have dealt with this straight after St Joseph’s and it would have near enough guaranteed immaculate behaviour at subsequent matches.
 
@Robert Marshall Read on here earlier you were considering removing some songs from The Louden's playlist on matchdays all because of UEFA and FARE's stance on Rangers. Please don't.

We love to come to The Louden to get pumped up on songs of old before and after the games and make the N.I. bears feel welcome with songs from across the sea.

My advice to you would be keep the playlist as it is, but add more traditional Rangers songs to it that don't currently get played.

Thats the best way.
 
@Robert Marshall Read on here earlier you were considering removing some songs from The Louden's playlist on matchdays all because of UEFA and FARE's stance on Rangers. Please don't.

We love to come to The Louden to get pumped up on songs of old before and after the games and make the N.I. bears feel welcome with songs from across the sea.

My advice to you would be keep the playlist as it is, but add more traditional Rangers songs to it that don't currently get played.

Thats the best way.

Vast majority of loyalist songs do not fall foul of any law. They are legitimate cultural songs equal to any other culture.

If we can keep the brain donors in check we don’t have to change a whole lot.

The people thinking they are defending loyalism by singing the 2 or 3 songs that are a problem are doing exactly what the enemies of loyalism want them to do.
 
AS a Rangers fan and also a member of the Eastern Catholic Church, I've asked Uefa and also Fare to explain what they have found to be discriminatory. If it it is only the words '19th Century Terrorist' , 'catholic' , 'pope', then I have pushed this back to them as I find it blatantly discriminatory and sectarian if they assume that only the Roman Catholic faith is the only Catholic faith and the Bishop of Rome is the only office that is allowed to claim being Pope.
 
Vast majority of loyalist songs do not fall foul of any law. They are legitimate cultural songs equal to any other culture.

If we can keep the brain donors in check we don’t have to change a whole lot.

The people thinking they are defending loyalism by singing the 2 or 3 songs that are a problem are doing exactly what the enemies of loyalism want them to do.

Agreed, but Robert should 100% not be removing any songs from his playlist. There is no need. Where would he stop, if he removes Build My Gallows for example does he just delete the whole lot of loyalist songs?

Just keep it the way it is. Realistically nobody even mentioned changing songs in The Louden before yesterdays statement.
 
This really is total nonsense. How can the mentally challengeds get away with banners calling themselves ‘the 19th Century Terrorist army’ and sing songs in support of terrorists yet we get threatened with a Euro ban for using the same word?

Why does that have any relevancy to our current predicament? The banner in question was unfurled in a League Match. Its up to the SFA and SPFL to sort out that can of worms out. Also it wasn't an idle threat, 3000 of our own will miss next Thursday's crucial match against Legia Warsaw.

Our punishment is a result of continued and unabated singing and use of a term that UEFA had asked the club to stop the fans from using close to 15 years ago. It's that simple mate. This isn't an exercise in finger pointing or the dreaded term of whataboutery.

The fans have handed all the ammo to our enemies in our last few games in European competition on a plate. The result of that is the club has been sanctioned. Despite various fan groups, message boards, fan podcasts and the Club itself warning our fanbase that FARE and UEFA are gunning for us when it comes to singing the Billy Boys.
 
The madness continues in NA where Portland fans are holding a protest against the MLS ban on political symbols. They are demanding “anti-fascist stances are formally recognized as non-political” (sounds a lot like the mob from the east end) Now I’m no fascist lover but how the hell can an anti-fascist symbol be not political?

These people along with FARE are all part of this global Antifada movement that are out to silence free speech and will never be happy until the entire Western world agrees with them or is forcibly silenced and they get their ideal socialist paradise. They can’t debate the issues because they’ll lose. So they work in the darkness to label anyone who opposes them, fascist, racist, or bigot. They simply must be stopped.
 
Why does that have any relevancy to our current predicament? The banner in question was unfurled in a League Match. Its up to the SFA and SPFL to sort out that can of worms out. Also it wasn't an idle threat, 3000 of our own will miss next Thursday's crucial match against Legia Warsaw.

Our punishment is a result of continued and unabated singing and use of a term that UEFA had asked the club to stop the fans from using close to 15 years ago. It's that simple mate. This isn't an exercise in finger pointing or the dreaded term of whataboutery.

The fans have handed all the ammo to our enemies in our last few games in European competition on a plate. The result of that is the club has been sanctioned. Despite various fan groups, message boards, fan podcasts and the Club itself warning our fanbase that FARE and UEFA are gunning for us when it comes to singing the Billy Boys.
If you can’t see the relevance, I give up
 
If you can’t see the relevance, I give up

So let me get this straight. Your grand defence of a song long since banned by the association that is punishing us and threatening to ban us from their tournaments. Is to cite a banner held up in a game that took place outwith their jurisdiction and has no relevancy to our relationship with them? Essentially whataboutery?

UEFA don't care mate. They don't care about double standards and they don't care about the minutiae of the word 19th Century Terrorist. They've encorperated it into what they deem to be racist behaviour. Whether we like it or not. We lost that debate over a decade ago under David Murray's watch. The Club and fanbase have been aware that the Billy Boys is banned under UEFA guidelines. It's really straightforward, it's UEFAs baw and if we want to play, then we play by their rules and regulations. Otherwise we forgo European football and the prestige/wealth that goes with it.
 
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The madness continues in NA where Portland fans are holding a protest against the MLS ban on political symbols. They are demanding “anti-fascist stances are formally recognized as non-political” (sounds a lot like the mob from the east end) Now I’m no fascist lover but how the hell can an anti-fascist symbol be not political?

These people along with FARE are all part of this global Antifada movement that are out to silence free speech and will never be happy until the entire Western world agrees with them or is forcibly silenced and they get their ideal socialist paradise. They can’t debate the issues because they’ll lose. So they work in the darkness to label anyone who opposes them, fascist, racist, or bigot. They simply must be stopped.

It seems FARE are not bothered by acts of political expression. No doubt they consider the scum's behaviour as political expression too :rolleyes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/sports/soccer/world-cup-uefa-fare.html?searchResultPosition=2
 
They could try but they would have less success. This idea what we sing is irrelevant to all this is nonsense.

The Northern Ireland national team has a similar set of enemies who would love nothing more than to see it ended and who seek to damage its reputation at every turn.

About 20 years ago the NI fans made a determined effort to clean up the atmosphere at games - it has been a massive success story, better atmosphere, more fans at games, and now one of the most highly regarded set of supporters in international football. Still have all the same enemies but they don’t have anything like as much success in their efforts.

And no NI supporter is any less Protestant, Unionist, or British for it.

We will prove nothing and achieve nothing by insisting on singing the two or three songs and add ons that are an open goal for our enemies. We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and use our brains.

Excellent post
 
They could try but they would have less success. This idea what we sing is irrelevant to all this is nonsense.

The Northern Ireland national team has a similar set of enemies who would love nothing more than to see it ended and who seek to damage its reputation at every turn.

About 20 years ago the NI fans made a determined effort to clean up the atmosphere at games - it has been a massive success story, better atmosphere, more fans at games, and now one of the most highly regarded set of supporters in international football. Still have all the same enemies but they don’t have anything like as much success in their efforts.

And no NI supporter is any less Protestant, Unionist, or British for it.

We will prove nothing and achieve nothing by insisting on singing the two or three songs and add ons that are an open goal for our enemies. We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and use our brains.


I was actually just saying this exact thing there on twitter.

I seem to remember you saying this the last time UEFA were hounding us.

How did the Northern Ireland support organise this, was there meetings, leaflets etc, or did it just come about by word of mouth.

The turnaround in the NI fans reputation has been amazing, and it 100% proves that it can be done.
 
We need to take this one on the chin I’m afraid. The songs were sung and we’ve been stuck in. This was always going to happen, we all know we have enemies yet we give them ammo to hurt us. As much as opinion differs on this we have just come from a real place of fan unity with our performances and this is now dividing us, which is the intention of our enemies. It’s clear, stop singing the songs, there’s not that many of them. Then when we’re accused again the club can say they’ve reviewed the game and no such songs were sang. Help the club to defend us, they simply cannot at the moment.
 
This thread is depressing as it shows the battle lines being drawn among the support...something that has been building for a while. The younger, 'woke' fans, want control and see us as dinosaurs....they smell blood I think. There is a growing number of fans who see us a sport team, and little else.

I was born into the club and know exactly what is about. Those traditions meant we were huge, but more importantly one of a handful of clubs globally who WERE 'more than a club'. We genuinely served a community, a demographic. That is being attacked every day, week and month by our own, by Scottish nationalists, by Scum fans, by chattering class 'opinion formers', by sport media, and I fear many are ready to give in to them for a 'peaceful life'.

I hate when we have division and are fighting each other....it weakens us and helps only Nonce FC.

The biggest load of pish ever posted on this forum.
 
Uefa public
I tend to think the club have known this punishment was coming weeks ago hence the letter that came with the new Smatcards.
Uefa announced all of the sanctions they have imposed on all clubs yesterday, and its a hefty list. I don't know if the club knew but its quite possible they didn't know the extent or couldn't announce it until Uefa did.
 
It's been obvious for the past couple of years at least that their one-way sectarian campaign wasn't getting enough attention for them outside of Scotland so they started pushing the racism angle (which gets far more attention everywhere).
All their most rancid of bloggers and moral crusaders were onto it in an obviously concerted campaign.
It's now paid off for them and anti-Irish racism is now the buzz word of their media friends.
We can't say we never saw it coming.
Well some of us saw it.
The ones who never saw it then need to get their brains in gear now and stop playing into their hands.
 
I was actually just saying this exact thing there on twitter.

I seem to remember you saying this the last time UEFA were hounding us.

How did the Northern Ireland support organise this, was there meetings, leaflets etc, or did it just come about by word of mouth.

The turnaround in the NI fans reputation has been amazing, and it 100% proves that it can be done.

I don’t recall exactly how it was organised but it was a coordinated effort from fans and the IFA, with groups of supporters drowning out certain chants and songs with alternative songs, and one guy in particular with a megaphone!

That was a guy called Jim Rainey who got an MBE for his efforts.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ni-fan-humbled-by-mbe-1-1892300/amp
 
No apology no surrender.

This is the problem.

We have too many idiots within our support who don't really enjoy the football, to the point they don't even really know what they're watching. Folk like this get their kicks out of going to the games, getting steaming, and singing songs about the pope and the IRA.

It's these folk who will eventually see us kicked out of Europe and handing the tims 10iar on a silver platter.

The worst part? Fans like the poster above don't really care about that, it appears.

It's incredibly sad.
 
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This Monday we're going to get the introduction of the billy boys to peaky blinders,one of the programmes which has a huge uk audience and is sold to a hell of a lot of countries abroad.
The timing of this couldn't have been any worse,in fact it's unreal the timing of it.
I hate whats going on here,being demonised as a club and support,but the way things are these days,we can't and won't win.
As in earlier posts,I totally agree with following the NI supporters. If they can do it then surely we can. Theyre the ones who have to deal with situations on their doorstep that we sing about.
I heard the NI fans at the last euro championships and they were superb,creating a great atmosphere without the songs.
For the sake of our future as a club,this is the way forward from now on.
 
The madness continues in NA where Portland fans are holding a protest against the MLS ban on political symbols. They are demanding “anti-fascist stances are formally recognized as non-political” (sounds a lot like the mob from the east end) Now I’m no fascist lover but how the hell can an anti-fascist symbol be not political?

These people along with FARE are all part of this global Antifada movement that are out to silence free speech and will never be happy until the entire Western world agrees with them or is forcibly silenced and they get their ideal socialist paradise. They can’t debate the issues because they’ll lose. So they work in the darkness to label anyone who opposes them, fascist, racist, or bigot. They simply must be stopped.
Are you at it? We have a glorious tradition of supporting veterans of WW2 within the club and you’re harping on about anti fascists as a negative?
 
Admin felt the need to delete my previous post - god knows why

We as Rangers fans, season ticket holders, share holder etc really need to waken up and smell the coffee as if not we will become a toxic brand

Personally I could not care about

Kimg Billy
1690
The Battle of the Boyne
The UDR
Derrys Wals
The IRA
The Pope
Bobby Sands
Ryan Jack being a protestant
Even Cardoso hated the IRA albeit I am sure he didn't have a clue

You can see where I am going with this but lets be honest we continue with this shit we will be a toxic brand and in UEFA's eyes (right or wrong) out of any European competition which will lead on to the SPL cu**s taking notice and then it will be points deduction

I can see it I hope the rest of our support can
 
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Are you at it? We have a glorious tradition of supporting veterans of WW2 within the club and you’re harping on about anti fascists as a negative?
You miss my point. I have no love for fascism. It’s not about your stance on the issue. However MLS ban political displays and there’s no way (no matter your sympathies) you can say an anti fascism symbol isn’t a political stance? It reeks of the mentally challengeds to me and their line, “It’s not terrorism it’s political” Well guess what political expression is banned by UEFA & FIFA too. It makes me sick that we’re facing stand closure and expulsion for singing a song whilst the mentally challengeds escape with fine after fine after fine for behaviour far worse than us. Setting off flares and displaying an anti-UEFA banner in one away game, fighting in Amsterdam, whilst having a pro-Palestinian display while playing an Israeli side in another are all far more deserving of a stand closure or expulsion from the competition than singing a song.

Frankly I’m disappointed by the clubs stance. These people are out to destroy us and no compromise we make will be good enough. There are two things we should be looking at. 1) exposing the link between our opponents and the Irish delegate at UEFA who I’m convinced is at the root of this, and 2) oppose FARE’s on every level. Try our best to deny them funding, expose their bias at every opportunity, and even set up a counter organization (that will compete for funding) and set up a fair and level playing field for real anti-social behaviour

It’s time we started fighting back. If we can’t sing certain songs in Europe, fine. However, we should force open debate on this issue at home because debate is the one thing our enemies cannot win.
 
This thread is depressing as it shows the battle lines being drawn among the support...something that has been building for a while. The younger, 'woke' fans, want control and see us as dinosaurs....they smell blood I think. There is a growing number of fans who see us a sport team, and little else.

I was born into the club and know exactly what is about. Those traditions meant we were huge, but more importantly one of a handful of clubs globally who WERE 'more than a club'. We genuinely served a community, a demographic. That is being attacked every day, week and month by our own, by Scottish nationalists, by Scum fans, by chattering class 'opinion formers', by sport media, and I fear many are ready to give in to them for a 'peaceful life'.

I hate when we have division and are fighting each other....it weakens us and helps only Nonce FC.

Very few people actually saying anything of the sort. Just stop saying the word 19th Century Terrorist and stop singing The Billy Boys at Ibrox. It doesn't matter what age you are, it doesn't matter how 'woke' you are, whether you're 'old school' or whether the club is a symbol of your heritage and culture.

There is absolutely no rule against celebrating your own identity. If your entire identity is about fucking popes, hating the IRA or getting it up 19th Century Terrorists then you do not have much of an identity. That is not culture or heritage. It's tribalism that UEFA justifiably view as sectarian and racist. Let's not turn it into an existential crisis, we only have to stop saying one word which should've been dropped from our vocabulary decades ago.

We can sing Build My Gallows or Derry's Walls every minute of a game if we choose to. Heritage and culture are not at threat and no Rangers fans, old or new, are calling for that to change.
 
Very few people actually saying anything of the sort. Just stop saying the word 19th Century Terrorist and stop singing The Billy Boys at Ibrox. It doesn't matter what age you are, it doesn't matter how 'woke' you are, whether you're 'old school' or whether the club is a symbol of your heritage and culture.

There is absolutely no rule against celebrating your own identity. If your entire identity is about fucking popes, hating the IRA or getting it up 19th Century Terrorists then you do not have much of an identity. That is not culture or heritage. It's tribalism that UEFA justifiably view as sectarian and racist. Let's not turn it into an existential crisis, we only have to stop saying one word which should've been dropped from our vocabulary decades ago.

We can sing Build My Gallows or Derry's Walls every minute of a game if we choose to. Heritage and culture are not at threat and no Rangers fans, old or new, are calling for that to change.

This nails it. I don't want people to feel like they don't belong to Rangers. Rangers is a big part of all of us. One of the best things about our support is that despite the media's best attempts to paint all of us in the worst possible light, we are still a broadchurch of people. Sometimes it's to our detriment but we all unite at Ibrox because of the team we all love. Let's not let that get lost in all of this. Nobody is advocating that we completely cut ties with our heritage and culture.

The Billy Boys and the word 19th Century Terrorist is and has been damaging the Club, for quite a while now. Right now we have no idea to what extent it could if we persist with it, but we all know ultimately it's going to do more harm than good. It's going to end up costing our team, through no fault of theirs and most fans don't want that to happen. It's time we ditched the softest targets and focused our efforts into things that we can defend about our club.
 
Just seen this.

FjZULO1.jpg
 
Just seen this.

FjZULO1.jpg

Seems folk are taking the fact we've been reported for every game so far and speculating or assuming UEFA will just rack up the charges. We got reported for almost every game last season as well apparently but nothing happened. I think UEFA will give the club time after this initial punishment period. Could be wrong, in which case we could end up qualifying and being booted out if every match report is like that but I highly doubt that.
 
Very few people actually saying anything of the sort. Just stop saying the word 19th Century Terrorist and stop singing The Billy Boys at Ibrox. It doesn't matter what age you are, it doesn't matter how 'woke' you are, whether you're 'old school' or whether the club is a symbol of your heritage and culture.

There is absolutely no rule against celebrating your own identity. If your entire identity is about fucking popes, hating the IRA or getting it up 19th Century Terrorists then you do not have much of an identity. That is not culture or heritage. It's tribalism that UEFA justifiably view as sectarian and racist. Let's not turn it into an existential crisis, we only have to stop saying one word which should've been dropped from our vocabulary decades ago.

We can sing Build My Gallows or Derry's Walls every minute of a game if we choose to. Heritage and culture are not at threat and no Rangers fans, old or new, are calling for that to change.
Yet
 
The Billy Boys is what gave our atmosphere and why they want it gone.

Every quote by opposing players about the European atmosphere at Ibrox is because of The Billy Boys. It’s so fucking obvious why they want rid and yet our support are ready to give it up. Embarrassing
 
It’s sad and pathetic how some of the support have turned on fellow fans straight away.

Nothing offensive has been sung ffs.

To me it's sad and pathetic that some grown adults on here cannot accept the gravity of the situation our club and fans find themselves in. We've just had bits of our stadium closed and 3000 fans chucked out the ground for one of the most important games in the season. We've been threatened with further sanctions if we persist with these songs and use of the term 19th Century Terrorist. Sanctions such as, full ground closure and expulsion from competitions.

UEFA don't give a %^*& if you don't think it's offensive. The club accepted the exclusion of the Billy Boys from the song book and the use of the word 19th Century Terrorist in UEFA run competitions over a decade ago. It's not up for debate or discussion with them anymore. They view it as racist and sectarian. Why are people persisting with this 'poor us' nonsense!? The club aren't going to go to war with UEFA over a song and term they agreed to stop us from singing years ago. It's futile.

People are rightly angry about it.
 

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