Rangers - its the way you defend the charges that bothers me.

We don't have a leg to stand on OP.
Rangers may have responded to the charges for all we know but maybe just not in public.

Let's all agree to get out own house in order. That's all you me and the rest of the fans can do. Comply at long last with the club's wishes. They have asked us for years and it's largely been ignored.
 
Does anyone think if we stopped singing the Billy boys and the adds on the corrupt FARE would stop targeting our songs?
This organisation have been after us for decades they would be offended with other songs. Our board should be questioning why FARE seem to target one club ours.
We can all Google to see the Racism and bigotry from FARE and they're very political so why are UEFA using them.
I think we (The Fans/1872 etc ) should start a another Fighting Fund and be seeking a human rights lawyer to go after FARE and expose them for their hatred of our club.

See this line trotted out time and time again.

Of course they won't they will try their hardest to pin something on us but no matter how hard they try it wont work. As long as we keep to the PC song book there is nothing that can be done and if UEFA eventually listen to them at least we are in a position of strength and can defend ourselves.

Still plenty to sing apart from BB, 50p flute & Super Rangers its not difficult.
 
Rangers can't be seen to condone religious stuff.

We might not like it but thathere we're at.
That's true but they've proved to be pretty fucking Murray-esque when dealing with the support in all aspects of support related PR stuff. We had English and Stewart make fun of the fact that our support were involved in a crushing incident and their response was as pitiful as they come, growing more and more frustrated at how limp-fucking-wristed they are.

I fully agree the song sheet needs to change, argued that fact on here and twitter when TBB, bought a flute etc crept back in circa 5 years ago but if this board think they can piss on us from a great height like Murray did then I'll oppose them just as vehemently. They better get their act together.
 
But it shows it's not a word that causes them any offence. They use it to describe themselves...would they really use an offensive word in a banner?

No.
This really isn’t the point.

It boils down to the fact that we can’t sing it. End of
 
There is no defending it. UEFA are judge and jury. We don't stand trial or go to court, the charge is the charge. Fans said the word in question. Don't say the word, that's literally all people have to do. That's what the club have told you.
Once again, every word you wrote is right and understood. Totally. No arguments. No defence.

Do you then think that the likes of FARE will then simply stop their infatuated intent to do us serious harm? If, as you put it, it's literally down to not saying the word (which I'm in agreement with you) are you really saying, in all honesty, that will be an end of FAREs deeply set desire to besmirch our name?

Cause where your undoubtedly right in what you've said, its blindingly obvious, its what you've not said that worries me. Theres more afoot here than us stopping to sing one word, I assure you
 
Agree mate, but we shouldn't be sucking anything up. Thats the thin end of the wedge and if we accept it now, we have lost. Screw UEFA and FARE and defend our history and heritage at any cost in my opinion. We are Rangers, and they HATE everything we stand for. You only have to Google or Twitter search FARE and its immediately clear who there people are, and we should not lie down under any circumstances for anything they say.
What does not accepting it look like to you? Keep singing and just don’t play football?
 
Once again, every word you wrote is right and understood. Totally. No arguments. No defence.

Do you then think that the likes of FARE will then simply stop their infatuated intent to do us serious harm? If, as you put it, it's literally down to not saying the word (which I'm in agreement with you) are you really saying, in all honesty, that will be an end of FAREs deeply set desire to besmirch our name?

Cause where your undoubtedly right in what you've said, its blindingly obvious, its what you've not said that worries me. Theres more afoot here than us stopping to sing one word, I assure you
Because there’s more than one word.
 
This argument of “if we stop singing the songs they’ll get us for something else” is completely irrelevant. How about we stop singing the songs then we can take that argument if we are still pursued! At the moment we don’t have a leg to stand on. If we clean up our act then it’s a different story and we can go after FARE if we still think it’s double standards.
 
There’s nothing to defend. It was loud and clear and indefensible. The “but what about Celtic” nonsense is so immature it’s unreal. I don’t want the club to “stand up” for sectarian singing. They have told us not to do it, so we don’t do it! It’s that simple. It’s UEFAs tournament and we play by their rules whether we like it or not. If we start getting picked on for one or two people singing banned songs then I agree we need to look at it as a witch hunt, but this particular charge we are guilty no doubt. Anyone watching the game knows we were but you still want the club to fight it?

In the OP's post he says the songs have to go, he's not asking the board to defend sectarian singing. What he's saying is we should be looking at the background of FARE and why they are so obsessed with Rangers. The other mob have had numerous fines for loads of misdemeanours including players being assaulted, we sing a naughty word in a song and face stadium closure. Surely the club should be asking these questions, they deserve to be answered.
 
They should absolutely be challenging the validity, and impartiality, of the accusers.

Why hasn't it already been done?

It is gross negligence by a board who already know how life works here in Timmyo.

You confront them at every turn, you highlight every single peace of cheating by the scum in black, domestically.

The bottom line is, the board simply doesn't have the stomach for that fight. I realise that they have came into fights that Murray should have been fighting, but where is this line in the sand?

It's not about criticising the board per se. It's just that they never understood the tsunami of hatred coming their way when they started turning the club around.

You then, over the last couple of weeks, have the filth draping banners over three segments of stands. Pelting an opposition European team with objects but we get 3,000 seats closed down for a song, and we don't say a word, other than to have a dig at our own fans?

In 21st century Scotland that is negligence.

In any fecking century it is negligence.
 
Because there’s more than one word.
Seriously. You write that as if it's an effective shutdown.

I'm aware of the issues over the songs thanks...but if you read the message to which I'm replying the poster talks about 'literally one word' needing changed. I'm referencing their post hence aligning the response.

But thanks for the lazy, half arsed and unhelpful response. Moving on now.
 
Other clubs have been fined for "illicit" chants including the scum (IRA, I think), Man U ( Hillsborough) and Liverpool ( Munich air crash). I would like to see the club seek clarification as to why these particular chants are not dealt with in a similar manner. One about an organisation that has murdered thousands of innocents, another about the deaths of football supporters and the other about the deaths of footballers themselves.
 
Seriously. You write that as if it's an effective shutdown.

I'm aware of the issues over the songs thanks...but if you read the message to which I'm replying the poster talks about 'literally one word' needing changed. I'm referencing their post hence aligning the response.

But thanks for the lazy, half arsed and unhelpful response. Moving on now.
Trying to isolate a single word and cut songs as close as possible is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
We don't have a leg to stand on OP.
Rangers may have responded to the charges for all we know but maybe just not in public.

Let's all agree to get out own house in order. That's all you me and the rest of the fans can do. Comply at long last with the club's wishes. They have asked us for years and it's largely been ignored.


I keep seeing this written so, can you tell me what you think then happens? Do you think they wont ever come after us for something else and then something else?

This for me is not just about a few words sung in a song but instead about us as a club and who and what we are seen as representing.

This is Piara Powar at an anti Israeli and pro Palestine meeting so, when the tramps had their support Palestine banners and flags during a European match..he wouldn't be thinking, they should have their stands closed for breaking the rules..He was thinking, I agree! even though their display was racist antisemitism.

sarsak-09861.jpg


http://www.inminds.com/article.php?id=10604&hc_location=ufi
They hate us!
 
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This really isn’t the point.

It boils down to the fact that we can’t sing it. End of

That's what I'm getting at though. To help the club and fans, they need to explain their reasoning and just saying its a derogatory religious word doesnt wash because celtic support displayed a banner with it.

As I've said on other posts. They have to explain because it's the only way people move forward. Targeting one group only hardens that group against everyone else.
 
Other clubs have been fined for "illicit" chants including the scum (IRA, I think), Man U ( Hillsborough) and Liverpool ( Munich air crash). I would like to see the club seek clarification as to why these particular chants are not dealt with in a similar manner. One about an organisation that has murdered thousands of innocents, another about the deaths of football supporters and the other about the deaths of footballers themselves.


Thats what Im asking
 
Since Friday there have been no end of posts in a multitude of threads calling out the club or the board for appeasement, lack of leadership or not defending the fans.

The reality is they can't. There are certain things you can't defend publicly and come out looking good. Does anyone think the club saying "they're just as bad" or "it's not really racist, it's just sectarian" or "you're racism police are bigots" is actually going to help? Because those are the 3 defenses the board is being taken to task for not making.

Also, remember this isn't a dialogue. It isn't even a trial. Once it's been highlighted this is a sentencing hearing. When UEFA say we're going to close the ground or expel you from the competition, all the club can do in mitigation is try to comply with the rules and say they're working on it.

UEFA are an organisation which cares little for football and nothing for reason or fairness. They care about money and corporate sponsorship. Corporate sponsors don't like even a whiff of organisations like FARE screaming the R word. As much as we might think it's untrue or biased, it doesn't matter.

In the end any sort of mixed message is going to get us expelled from UEFA competition. It's a serious threat and it's happened before. I'm guessing plenty of the support nowadays have forgotten we never got to defend our one European trophy and it hurt.

There are folk in our support who took all those warnings about FARE, Dave King's appeal on the pitch, the Everyone Anyone campaign, the Follow with Pride broadcasts on the screens before every game, and decided nobody really told them they couldn't sing any damn thing they want. That somehow they were getting a nod and a wink to FTP it up. They're still pleading ignorance. That isn't going to cut it as a defence. They really need it spelled out very simply and clearly - no more. Any sort of mixed message and those folk will take that as a go ahead to get us punished again - there's a point where pleading ignorance and victimisation is just whining.

I think we need to take a step back. Do we want the club to defend this?

Some of our songs are frankly embarassing. Take UEFA out of the equation. Why does anyone want to sign FTP at a football match? It doesn't matter whether it's racist, it's plainly got nothing to do with football and doesn't exactly attract new fans. I'm not exactly the world's most pc person as my previous bans and closed accounts testify, but I cringe at some of the song book.

The default mentality of many seems to be fight because this is coming from the club's enemies. We should be looking at the effect it has on the club's friends. When they're embarrassed maybe we should take the hint. We should think more about the message rather than the messenger.

The aim of every song at the football should be to get the whole ground singing to encourage the team. There was a time when songs like the Billy Boys did that, but it doesn't any more. Times change, and the song book needs to evolve to survive. That's life - literally. There are plenty of fans who find it an embarassing anachronism. The best singalongs now are ESWF because the whole stadium can join in even if you came with your granny or your kids.
 
It’s getting stupid now.
We were warned before on a few occasions and we all know the word 19th Century Terrorist should be sung so we either stop it or they’ll punish us further with the SFA following no doubt
 
%^*& off. you can say and sing it all you like but don't do so while hid behind other people and our club is liable for punishment.
%^*& off. you can say and sing it all you like but don't do so while hid behind other people and our club is liable for punishment.
Telling somebody to f. off when they make a comment, are you for real, get an education. I don't have a clue what you are talking about, hid behind other people. What does that even mean, who is hiding. I have said it is not illegal to be anti-catholic in Scotland and that is it, in a religious sense.
 
Telling somebody to f. off when they make a comment, are you for real, get an education. I don't have a clue what you are talking about, hid behind other people. What does that even mean, who is hiding. I have said it is not illegal to be anti-catholic in Scotland and that is it, in a religious sense.
When using it as a justified reason for Rangers supporters to sing about the Pope and Catholicism? I'm deadly serious.
 
That's what I'm getting at though. To help the club and fans, they need to explain their reasoning and just saying its a derogatory religious word doesnt wash because celtic support displayed a banner with it.

As I've said on other posts. They have to explain because it's the only way people move forward. Targeting one group only hardens that group against everyone else.

I do get what u mean mate.
But I feel the club would be pi55ing in the wind with this argument.
 
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy

I have read some truly depressing posts on FF over the years.

This blows them all out the water.

What fxxking chance do you have when you read shite like this?

You are prepared to watch Rangers get kicked out of Europe and lose our manager and best players over a few fxxking songs?
 
Once again, every word you wrote is right and understood. Totally. No arguments. No defence.

Do you then think that the likes of FARE will then simply stop their infatuated intent to do us serious harm? If, as you put it, it's literally down to not saying the word (which I'm in agreement with you) are you really saying, in all honesty, that will be an end of FAREs deeply set desire to besmirch our name?

Cause where your undoubtedly right in what you've said, its blindingly obvious, its what you've not said that worries me. Theres more afoot here than us stopping to sing one word, I assure you

No, of course they won't. But FARE don't decide the charge, UEFA do. And unless you are wearing a permanent tinfoil hat, there is no suggestion UEFA have any reason to charge us when there is no reason to.

FARE might complain about Derry's Walls or Build My Gallows, but that's not to say UEFA have any reason to do anything about them, because there is nothing wrong with them.

Don't sing songs about 19th Century Terrorists. The end.
 
I keep seeing this written so, can you tell me what you think then happens? Do you think they wont ever come after us for something else and then something else?

This for me is not just about a few words sung in a song but instead about us as a club and who and what we are seen as representing.

This is Piara Powar at an anti Israeli and pro Palestine meeting so, when the tramps had their support Palestine banners and flags during a European match..he wouldn't be thinking, they should have their stands closed for breaking the rules..He was thinking, I agree! even though their display was racist antisemitism.

sarsak-09861.jpg


http://www.inminds.com/article.php?id=10604&hc_location=ufi
They hate us!


We all know how they operate, as do UEFA. Celtic have had at least 3 fines for displaying the palestine flag how did fare help then?

UEFA probably cant be bothered with fare as much as any of us but regardless its inexplicably clear we are not allowed to sing discriminatory chants at UEFA games.

Keep UEFA Happy and adhere to their rules and FARE will become irrelevant.
 
To be honest I am shocked at how easily our fans have turned on other fans here and slaughtered them for singing songs. Pathetic. You don't see Polish fans or Italian fans stopping doing anything because of what fucking UEFA and FARE say (whoever the %^*& they are). I think its a nonsense and we should stick together and %^*& them and protest at UEFA at every opportunity whatever the consequences.

Why the %^*& should we change anything because of FARE. I'd be very interested to know who is behind that lot anyway. Vanguard Bears have been tweeting some very interesting stuff on that organisation, and here we are turning on Union Bears over songs we have sung for years because of dodgy and politically motivated fuckers like FARE. Really? One slap on the wrist and we have rolled over like pussies. You certainly don't see Polish, Italian ultras behaving like this. About time we stuck together and sing whatever the %^*& we like.
ANd at the same time lose your club and your manager through the closed stadiums and lack of european football through bans you do realise that if we follow your advice and keep doing what we got punished for you'll be able to sing anything you want but it wont be at Ibrox because it'll be closed down.
 
We all know how they operate, as do UEFA. Celtic have had at least 3 fines for displaying the palestine flag how did fare help then?

UEFA probably cant be bothered with fare as much as any of us but regardless its inexplicably clear we are not allowed to sing discriminatory chants at UEFA games.

Keep UEFA Happy and adhere to their rules and FARE will become irrelevant.

Fines not stadium partial closures- thats the difference

Illicit chanting and banners and not charged with racism as we have been. We arent racist and should never be tagged as such


FARE- are an organisation that has a clear agenda against us and for me this isnt about just a song or words in a song as I stated above.. Even years ago, Martin Bain could see that and said so and he was a useless idiot
 
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We all know how they operate, as do UEFA. Celtic have had at least 3 fines for displaying the palestine flag how did fare help then?

UEFA probably cant be bothered with fare as much as any of us but regardless its inexplicably clear we are not allowed to sing discriminatory chants at UEFA games.

Keep UEFA Happy and adhere to their rules and FARE will become irrelevant.

And yet we're told it's 3 strikes and out?
 
Telling somebody to f. off when they make a comment, are you for real, get an education. I don't have a clue what you are talking about, hid behind other people. What does that even mean, who is hiding. I have said it is not illegal to be anti-catholic in Scotland and that is it, in a religious sense.

No, but if you're going to go shouting about it in a public space then there will be consequences.

The most obvious thing is why use Rangers as a vehicle for those beliefs? There are other outlets. But then again, singing in a crowd does provide a degree of anonymity.
 
I still can't believe there are people who refuse to see the issue here.
Absolutely nobody has attempted to defend the songs or ask that the club does.

We are asking that Rangers take the lead and ensure these rules are applied to every club in European competition as they have been to us.

Surely wanting a level playing field is the least we should expect?

We've ditched the songs and I have no doubt we will again. The filth across the city see nothing wrong with chants and banners about huns and orange bastards.
It seems to me that FARE see no issue either.
It's not 'whataboutery'.
We'll get our house in order.
How will FARE and UEFA deal with the next instance of sectarian chanting in Glasgow?

It won't be at Ibrox.
They won’t it is it’s us who are being hunted
 
They won’t it is it’s us who are being hunted
So then we gather the evidence.
We ask the club to seek reasons for their behaviour being ignored.
We ask UEFA why an organisation who are turning a blind eye to the glorification of terrorism are allowed to stand in judgment of our club.

We can't do this while singing about the pope and 19th Century Terrorist blood though.
 
Fines not stadium partial closures- thats the difference

Illicit chanting and banners and not charged with racism as we have been. We arent racist and should never be tagged as such


FARE- are an organisation that has a clear agenda against us and for me this isnt about just a song or words in a song as I stated above.. Even years ago, Martin Bain could see that and said so and he was a useless idiot

All of our charges from UEFA over the years have been for sectarian singing and the odd one for crowd trouble. Regardless if we agree with them or not religious discrimination comes under the same banner as racism according to UEFAs rules. There is not a thing we can do about that unless they change their rules.

We might not like it but thats the facts its classed as one of the most serious crimes in the eyes of UEFA. You highlight the tims constant fines but most of them are for throwing stuff, pitch invasions and other things.

Taking all this into account its still pretty simple, Sing Rangers sons during Uefa matches and we will be fine, continue with the BB and %^*& the pope/19th Century Terrorist bast./50p flute etc and we will play behind closed doors or even worse thrown out of the competition. Our manager will probably walk and you can kiss good bye to stopping Celtic.
 
you are an idiot.

it has been explained by numerous organisations and even our own club that singing about/against catholics, the pope etc is not going to be tolerated.

That's the end of it. If you are so stupid that you seem to think that we should keep on doing it and subsequently get kicked out of Europe and all the other consequences just because it is "oor kultchure" then i don't know what else to say.

Go sing about that sort of stuff somewhere else - the club have told the support numerous times its not welcome.
This!
 
So then we gather the evidence.
We ask the club to seek reasons for their behaviour being ignored.
We ask UEFA why an organisation who are turning a blind eye to the glorification of terrorism are allowed to stand in judgment of our club.

We can't do this while singing about the pope and 19th Century Terrorist blood though.

I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of the support realise this but equally the vast majority of the support would like the club to turn their attention to the other mob once our own house is in order. I don't reckon it's the removal of certain songs that's the problem, it's the constant stream of attacks on Rangers and their supporters when the manky mob get away with murder. Stopping the songs that get us into bother is a must, parity is also a must.
 
I do get what u mean mate.
But I feel the club would be pi55ing in the wind with this argument.

If the club at least makes the effort for the clubs and supporters own sake then we cant ask any more.

I suppose its about showing UEFA we're trying to own the problem and get the issue stamped out but we need help and answers and clarification goes a massive way to persuade the fans.

And back in the real world :confused:
 
This week's UEFA sanctions and all the fall out has really done ma heid, and I'm really wanting to dwell on it. But theres just this nagging thing that I couldn't really understand, cause I found myself in both the 'supporters are fully to blame' plus 'the clubs let us down' camps but wasnt sure why. Now I think I know; It's the processes that has got to me.

To be clear, I'm no looking for posts breaking it down to what others rightly feel is the basic premise - that as long as we dont sing sectarian songs then well be okay. Because I agree. I am fully in agreement. At the end of the day, no songs and no add ons means no problems. But I do wonder about other stuff.

I dont particulary agree with the chastising of the UBs. Not because they're not to blame, but I feel they're to blame for being part of the Rangers support, and we win, lose and share blame together.

But, for as much as I totally accept, as above, the faults with the fans, theres still this nagging sense of feeling let down by the club that I think can still be a legitimate point to raise.

For it's not what's got us here - again to clarify, that's the fans bad - but how we get out of here that genuinely concerns me. And for that, the fans must lead....but the club must support, and it's not good enough to say theres nothing they can do.

Lots of reference, time and typing in various threads explains about the charges Rangers faced from the St Joseph's match, for which we were found guilt and sanctioned- with the next step being stadium closure. Well, from a transparency and procedural view, I'd be interested in the club explaining when we were charged, when the matter was heard and what representation was offered.

Not that I think we could or should have defended the indefensible, it just strikes me that all the comments thus far are that we were charged, BF1 specifically mentioned, and now the seats will be empty.

In any parallel process, no matter how heinous the crime, you are entitled surely to answer for your conduct. So did the club, and if so who and when?

Because it's going forward that really highlights the concern. If we are reported, charged and punished - as seems to have been the case so far - without representation, then there must be an inevitability that we may play very soon to an empty Ibrox, and then if the process reoccurs, run the risk of being chucked out of Europe.

So, Rangers. It's the way you now represent us going forward that matters. If we as fans take full blame, support us in weeding out the problems. I'm not suggesting this will be either difficult nor hard, so back off those tempted to interject with the "how difficult can it be" comments. I get it.

But let's be honest. Come 2130hrs Thursday night, if not before, our haters will be reporting what they consider inappropriate conduct to UEFA. The narrative has begun, the report probably already written in pent up anticipation,

So at this point Rangers, if the criteria for a charge is simply receipt of a complaint, then you must be better placed to defend the fans. God forbid, if the support let us down then again I wont seek to defend the indefensible, but if anything else occurs and we are tasked to answer spurious or mischievous reports, defend us.

And in doing so, its legitimate to talk of stated cases, precedence, concerns over legitimacy of sources....and I'm not being naive to think UEFA will shut down Ibrox cause of an email from an unfamiliar email address and the like, but bear in mind the fans legitimate concerns over the conflict if interest at FARE, yet they still sit as arbiter of our conduct. Somehow.

So yes, the fans must absorb the blame and fix it. But this laizzez faire approach thus far to charge followed by punishment I can swallow (cause I can't think of any real mitigation nor excuse) but the line in the sand is drawn and the stakes set. Today was a barometer, and the fans passed. Fingers crossed, they will again o Thurs and going forward. And if they do, and you dont stand up to any unfair charges which will still be reported simply cause haters hate and wont care actually what we sing cause their agenda is set, you will rightly as a board lose me and others like me


not sure what fans expect the club to do in this instance , show me a club who have taken UEFA on in similar circumstances and won ??
 
When using it as a justified reason for Rangers supporters to sing about the Pope and Catholicism? I'm deadly serious.
It is not being used as a reason to justify singing at football matches, it is stated as fact.
No, but if you're going to go shouting about it in a public space then there will be consequences.

The most obvious thing is why use Rangers as a vehicle for those beliefs? There are other outlets. But then again, singing in a crowd does provide a degree of anonymity.
I am not saying it should continue. Ibrox has been a vehicle for these songs as long as I can remember, over 50 years. It is not something that will be stopped easily. It has been passed from generation after generation almost religiously, going back even to WW2. It will take time if you want it to stop, but stop blaming your fellow supporters, who see it as tradition in the 70's, as an act of defiance against terrorists, who murdered innocent British people.
I think one of the problems for our support is different generations have different experiences. Older supporters understand why we sing these songs and younger ones do not, hence they don't want to hear them. I don't want anything that damages the club, but I also don't think we should appease those who hate us.
 
There’s readily available footage of Celtic chanting “ get the Brits out now “ and we are all off to Dublin in the green with add ins at euro games this season along with their PLO flags something they’ve been previously fined for and not a peep from anyone , that’s before we get to the missiles thrown too

But have you reported these instances to FARE?
 
TBB has been explicitly and specifically banned from being sung by Rangers fans in football grounds in all forms as per the directive from Uefa in 2006. The penalty for singing it in European games was clear, partial closure. Sing it again in European game, stadium closure. Sing it again after that, expulsion from the tournament. We have chucked ourselves under the bus
I do feel that the 2006 decision is dodgy. The evidence was given anonymously; the evidence, by the experts was incorrect, to be charitable, or, more probably, a deliberate misrepresentation. I am not a lawyer in any shape or form but to have a political word dubbed as racist, when it has never been, and to have the club liable for misbehaviour inside and outside the ground, strikes me as an attack on free speech. Perhaps some legal brain might look at a supporters' body taking a case to the ECHR on one or more of the following fields
  • liberty rights that protect freedoms in areas such as belief and religion, association, assembling and movement;
  • political rights that protect the liberty to participate in politics by expressing themselves,
  • due process rights that protect against abuses of the legal system such as imprisonment without trial, secret trials and excessive punishments;
  • equality rights that guarantee equal citizenship, equality before the law and nondiscrimination;
 
I do feel that the 2006 decision is dodgy. The evidence was given anonymously; the evidence, by the experts was incorrect, to be charitable, or, more probably, a deliberate misrepresentation. I am not a lawyer in any shape or form but to have a political word dubbed as racist, when it has never been, and to have the club liable for misbehaviour inside and outside the ground, strikes me as an attack on free speech. Perhaps some legal brain might look at a supporters' body taking a case to the ECHR on one or more of the following fields
  • liberty rights that protect freedoms in areas such as belief and religion, association, assembling and movement;
  • political rights that protect the liberty to participate in politics by expressing themselves,
  • due process rights that protect against abuses of the legal system such as imprisonment without trial, secret trials and excessive punishments;
  • equality rights that guarantee equal citizenship, equality before the law and nondiscrimination;
I'm no lawyer either and I can't comment on the evidence given to uefa at the time, even though I agree it's suspect at least. But simply put its irrelevant. The club signed a document agreeing to abide by judgement of the UEFA disciplinary bodies; I believe we would have signed some version of it this year. It's uefa's competition and they set the rules, if you want to compete in their competitions you need to abide by them - and they are judge, jury and executioner.

The ECHR I don't believe is an option for this reason.

On a side note though, Rangers would never challenge the ruling. We chose not to go to CAS at the time over TBB and not sure if we ran out of appeals or waived our right to appeal; I think basically due to the fact that even if we could sing a 'clean' version of the song we run the risk of people putting in the add ons - which ultimately could lead to being expelled from Europe.

My personal view (and hopefully the club's too) is why run that risk for a song / word. We don't need it, it has no place in a football ground and it was already pretty much phased out years ago and only creeped back in relatively recently. Its really important that people do not get the idea it's ok to sing the song, even with different lyrics
 
I'm no lawyer either and I can't comment on the evidence given to uefa at the time, even though I agree it's suspect at least. But simply put its irrelevant. The club signed a document agreeing to abide by judgement of the UEFA disciplinary bodies; I believe we would have signed some version of it this year. It's uefa's competition and they set the rules, if you want to compete in their competitions you need to abide by them - and they are judge, jury and executioner.

The ECHR I don't believe is an option for this reason.

On a side note though, Rangers would never challenge the ruling. We chose not to go to CAS at the time over TBB and not sure if we ran out of appeals or waived our right to appeal; I think basically due to the fact that even if we could sing a 'clean' version of the song we run the risk of people putting in the add ons - which ultimately could lead to being expelled from Europe.

My personal view (and hopefully the club's too) is why run that risk for a song / word. We don't need it, it has no place in a football ground and it was already pretty much phased out years ago and only creeped back in relatively recently. Its really important that people do not get the idea it's ok to sing the song, even with different lyrics

As supporters we do have that option of taking UEFA to court. TBB is not sectarian. TBB is not racist. We should be fighting for that slur, on us, to be removed.
 
Next upheld complaint the stadium will be closed after that we will be flung out of Europe is that what you want?
How long until a charge resets?

If the support do something similar in 5 years time will that be classed as a second offence and result in ground closure, or will it be a first offence and have same punishment as Thursday?
 
As supporters we do have that option of taking UEFA to court. TBB is not sectarian. TBB is not racist. We should be fighting for that slur, on us, to be removed.
Good luck with that, I would certainly agree it isn't racist, however it's Uefa's view on it that matters; and as I say the club agrees on abiding by the decisions of Uefa's disciplinary body. Its that or don't play in Europe - I would rather play in Europe
 
How long until a charge resets?

If the support do something similar in 5 years time will that be classed as a second offence and result in ground closure, or will it be a first offence and have same punishment as Thursday?

A repeat any time within 3 years will be regarded as a second aggravating offence, it appears from art 25 of UEFA’s regulations
 
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