Rangers - its the way you defend the charges that bothers me.

I don't believe ANYONE is asking the Board to support our supporters over songs they have been told will cause the club problems and which lead to this partial closure, But I do expect the Club to ask a perfectly vaild question as to why FARE have reportedly been in attendence at the last 11 Rangers home games in Europe.
Why the scrutiny of Rangers to this extent? not condoning the singing, but apart from that have Rangers supporters attacked visiting players? have the supporters thrown flares onto the field of play? what reason does FARE have for attending so many Rangers Matches?
We have a right to know why this organisation are placing so much scrutiny onto Rangers and their supporters.


EXACTLY!
 
Yes I get all that, but this is more than TBB. This is an attack by some dodgy left wing group on Rangers and everything we stand for. Go and look at the Vanguard Bears tweets on who is behind FARE. Videos all over twitter of FARE directors abusing British Military who were parading at Emirates Stadium. FARE are dodgy and we are being attacked by a group who hate what we stand for.

We should not be rolling over in my opinion and should stand together to defend our club and culture. Cannot not imagine Polish, Italian Ultras allowing this under any circumstances. In my opinion we are being soft as shite and we should be sticking together. Close the stadium over a song. Not a chance. They would shit themselves if they did that and 45,000 of us were outside protesting. The only way to fight shit like this is to stick together and not accept it, or its just another knock and hit to this club heritage. We going to stand for that are we?


Piara Powar has a close connection to Dermott Desmond's son and has worked for his organisation . We have a right to question the impartiality of FARE and their chief executive and to question why they are targetting our club.
 
So you don't actually want the songs defended, you want the club to engage in finger-pointing?
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Rangers fans have been caught bang to rights singing a song that has been banned, of course we don't want the club to defend that.

It doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question the lack of impartiality from our accusers.

Unless of course, you don't want the rules applied equally across the board?
 
Yes I get all that, but this is more than TBB. This is an attack by some dodgy left wing group on Rangers and everything we stand for. Go and look at the Vanguard Bears tweets on who is behind FARE. Videos all over twitter of FARE directors abusing British Military who were parading at Emirates Stadium. FARE are dodgy and we are being attacked by a group who hate what we stand for.

We should not be rolling over in my opinion and should stand together to defend our club and culture. Cannot not imagine Polish, Italian Ultras allowing this under any circumstances. In my opinion we are being soft as shite and we should be sticking together. Close the stadium over a song. Not a chance. They would shit themselves if they did that and 45,000 of us were outside protesting. The only way to fight shit like this is to stick together and not accept it, or its just another knock and hit to this club heritage. We going to stand for that are we?
That's anothe fight against FARE but right now we have to suck it up in afraid, unless getting kicked out of Europe is what everyone agrees with .But you are right FARE have to be investigated they have no impartiality regarding Rangers,its free speech for Celtic but big bad Rangers have to abide by rules made up by them the Club have to be looking for answers why this is so.
 
Yes I get all that, but this is more than TBB. This is an attack by some dodgy left wing group on Rangers and everything we stand for. Go and look at the Vanguard Bears tweets on who is behind FARE. Videos all over twitter of FARE directors abusing British Military who were parading at Emirates Stadium. FARE are dodgy and we are being attacked by a group who hate what we stand for.

We should not be rolling over in my opinion and should stand together to defend our club and culture. Cannot not imagine Polish, Italian Ultras allowing this under any circumstances. In my opinion we are being soft as shite and we should be sticking together. Close the stadium over a song. Not a chance. They would shit themselves if they did that and 45,000 of us were outside protesting. The only way to fight shit like this is to stick together and not accept it, or its just another knock and hit to this club heritage. We going to stand for that are we?

You aren't very loyal , are you?
 
That's anothe fight against FARE but right now we have to suck it up in afraid, unless getting kicked out of Europe is what everyone agrees with .But you are right FARE have to be investigated they have no impartiality regarding Rangers,its free speech for Celtic but big bad Rangers have to abide by rules made up by them the Club have to be looking for answers why this is so.

Agree mate, but we shouldn't be sucking anything up. Thats the thin end of the wedge and if we accept it now, we have lost. Screw UEFA and FARE and defend our history and heritage at any cost in my opinion. We are Rangers, and they HATE everything we stand for. You only have to Google or Twitter search FARE and its immediately clear who there people are, and we should not lie down under any circumstances for anything they say.
 
UEFA dont care about the word 19th Century Terrorist either but some Celtic minded people at FARE do,and I'm also sure FARE know about the that banner clearly states they are and see themselves as 19th Century Terrorists.
So we shud carry on regardless?
 
Agree mate, but we shouldn't be sucking anything up. Thats the thin end of the wedge and if we accept it now, we have lost. Screw UEFA and FARE and defend our history and heritage at any cost in my opinion. We are Rangers, and they HATE everything we stand for. You only have to Google or Twitter search FARE and its immediately clear who there people are, and we should not lie down under any circumstances for anything they say.
Screw Uefa? Not if you want to play in their tournaments.

Uefa hate everything we stand for? I doubt we are even in their top 100 concerns, we are a minor annoyance to them at best for giving them some paperwork.
 
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Rangers fans have been caught bang to rights singing a song that has been banned, of course we don't want the club to defend that.

It doesn't mean we aren't allowed to question the lack of impartiality from our accusers.

Unless of course, you don't want the rules applied equally across the board?

We do need to go after FARE, but this needs to be played out wisely.
THE most important issue now is to make sure none of these songs and add ons are sung by our support. The consequences of not doing this are far too serious now.
Calling out FARE as we're giving them free hits would be pointless and counter-productive. We need to take this one on the chin, make sure there are no more sanctions and bide our time.
 
Screw Uefa? Not if you want to play in their tournaments.

Uefa hate everything we stand for? I doubt we are even in their top 100 concerns, we are a minor annoyance to them at best for giving them some paperwork.
Your 100% right it's FARE that are driving this agenda and having a free reign to do so.
 
Screw Uefa? Not if you want to play in their tournaments.

Uefa hate everything we stand for? I doubt we are even in their top 100 concerns, we are a minor annoyance to them at best for giving them some paperwork.

So ask yourself why UEFA have partnered with an ultra left wing pressure group like FARE who's directors openly support Palastine and abuse the British Military? Come on! Open your eyes.
 
Regardless of the specifics of any chanting, it cannot be acceptable for anyone to form a pressure group with a specific agenda of penalising the enemies of one club. How many other clubs have FARE reported?

Loads mate, all you need to do is look at uefas disciplinary page and read the judgements. We're not the only team with stadium closures and fines for chanting. FARE operate across the continent
 
See we are still going round in circles here.

FARE are a joke but they have the ear of Uefa.

Whether we like that or not , it's a fact.

Whilst we give them the ammunition to run with we keep them sustained.

Clean up or act , make them irrelevant and then train our guns on the orcs.

You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy
 
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy
I'm missing nothing , nothing at all ,going by this reply.
 
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On Thursday a club official and a fans group must lost every song sung

If UVF is mentioned in coming down the road or Englishman’s betrayal it must to hammered home to uefa its a world war 1 song

We must take the fight to them and fare . The fans have been let down again
 
FARE have been at ALL of our home games since last year's qualifiers....and reportedly complained to UEFA that they hadn't fined/banned us before. They are scum, absolute scum.

This doesn't mean we can sing about the Beast of Rome, the Whore of Babylon...or about 19th Century Terrorists, despite it being political and NOT racist (at least get your crimes right UEFA).

Both things are true at the same time...
 
What defence do you expect the club to give? Condone the songs? Say they weren't sung despite being video evidence?
Exactly ...Rangers FC cannot defend the singing of “19th Century Terrorist b’s “ in some songs . Time to drop this altogether for the greater good !
 
We do need to go after FARE, but this needs to be played out wisely.
THE most important issue now is to make sure none of these songs and add ons are sung by our support. The consequences of not doing this are far too serious now.
Calling out FARE as we're giving them free hits would be pointless and counter-productive. We need to take this one on the chin, make sure there are no more sanctions and bide our time.
Exactly how it should pan out.
Being honest, I have zero faith that it will.

For all the good the board have done, they are still Murray-esque negligent when it comes to defending the club or fans.
 
Yes I get all that, but this is more than TBB. This is an attack by some dodgy left wing group on Rangers and everything we stand for. Go and look at the Vanguard Bears tweets on who is behind FARE. Videos all over twitter of FARE directors abusing British Military who were parading at Emirates Stadium. FARE are dodgy and we are being attacked by a group who hate what we stand for.

We should not be rolling over in my opinion and should stand together to defend our club and culture. Cannot not imagine Polish, Italian Ultras allowing this under any circumstances. In my opinion we are being soft as shite and we should be sticking together. Close the stadium over a song. Not a chance. They would shit themselves if they did that and 45,000 of us were outside protesting. The only way to fight shit like this is to stick together and not accept it, or its just another knock and hit to this club heritage. We going to stand for that are we?
FARE have UEFA's ear but there is nothing we can do about that. Stop giving FARE reasons to report us and their work dries up, their funding runs out. We can help kill FARE by cutting out the stupid songs that are neither part of our history or heritage, as someone else suggested. We need to box clever.
 
Agree mate, but we shouldn't be sucking anything up. Thats the thin end of the wedge and if we accept it now, we have lost. Screw UEFA and FARE and defend our history and heritage at any cost in my opinion. We are Rangers, and they HATE everything we stand for. You only have to Google or Twitter search FARE and its immediately clear who there people are, and we should not lie down under any circumstances for anything they say.
Take up your protest with UEFA personally then and not in the name of the club. Post your favourite songs on twitter and Facebook and tag them in on it. Take up your argument with police Scotland that it’s not racist when they are arresting you for it. Start up a wee rendition of TBB in the courtroom when your getting charged and explain you won’t be told what you can and can’t sing. That way you get your protest and the rest of us fans don’t lose out on seeing our team.
 
So ask yourself why UEFA have partnered with an ultra left wing pressure group like FARE who's directors openly support Palastine and abuse the British Military? Come on! Open your eyes.
Pretty sure cletic were sanctioned for flying Palestine flags?
Your 100% right it's FARE that are driving this agenda and having a free reign to do so.
That's probay true. FARE have reported us in every European game since being back in the top flight - Uefa ignored them. A uefa delegate attends jospehs game and we sing a song we know is banned, and get sanctioned as per uefa's rulebook. Keep doing it then stadium is closed, keep doing it after that then expelled from tournament.

FARE might be questionable at best, but the sanction is for something we actually did do. So until we clean up the songbook not sure how we can tackle FARE
 
Exactly how it should pan out.
Being honest, I have zero faith that it will.

For all the good the board have done, they are still Murray-esque negligent when it comes to defending the club or fans.

My only criticism of the board (so far) in all this is they should be actively engaging with the UB (maybe they are?). The UB also need to take this on the chin and move forward. They can potentially have a huge role in making sure none of the pish is sung at games whilst creating a brilliant atmosphere.

The FARE problem is a battle for another day. Just now, we need all supporters, including the board, the UB, BO and RSC's on the same page. Some bears are just not seeing how potentially serious this whole thing will play out. Simple-minded defiance will see us papped out of Europe with hugely negative consequences.

At what point do these fans start to learn?
They will do more damage than any Rangers hater could wish for.

FARE's day will come.
 
FARE have UEFA's ear but there is nothing we can do about that. Stop giving FARE reasons to report us and their work dries up, their funding runs out. We can help kill FARE by cutting out the stupid songs that are neither part of our history or heritage, as someone else suggested. We need to box clever.

That's not for you to say though. For generations, decades, longer....those songs, beliefs and attitudes were part of our support and made us a hiuhe club. It is not for you to decry that.
 
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy

You are completely missing the point here. We are very close to being kicked out of Europe ffs.
What do you think the consequences of that will be?
 
The club have to have their say in this,A strong statement telling fans exactly what songs,chants and add ons that will not be tolerated,Season ticket removal life bans and lay down a message that the rules will be strictly enforced and strongly policed.
To sit and do nothing is not an option.
 
My only criticism of the board (so far) in all this is they should be actively engaging with the UB (maybe they are?). The UB also need to take this on the chin and move forward. They can potentially have a huge role in making sure none of the pish is sung at games whilst creating a brilliant atmosphere.

The FARE problem is a battle for another day. Just now, we need all supporters, including the board, the UB, BO and RSC's on the same page. Some bears are just not seeing how potentially serious this whole thing will play out. Simple-minded defiance will see us papped out of Europe with hugely negative consequences.

At what point do these fans start to learn?
They will do more damage than any Rangers hater could wish for.

FARE's day will come.

I've no doubt that the songs will disappear. My only fear is that they return again, as they have done now, as a result of an uneven agenda.

Had we seen the filths ira repertoire under the spotlight, songs about the Ibrox disaster or mentions of huns and orange bastards under the same scrutiny, then TBB would never have come back.

I hope this is something the club recognise or we could be back here in a few years time.
 
Mate – I get the feeling that something is off here.

There is clear evidence that we are being specifically targeted by a group who have questionable motives.

The pisser is we have absolutely no defence for continuing to sing these songs.

We have been warned over the years – well warned and still they continue. This is disappointing as we had made real progress in weeding out the crap – and it is not just the Billy Boys or references to “19th Century Terrorist”.

We are playing in UEFA’s tournaments, we abide by their rules and the rules are clear.

We can’t make any push back from a position where we are clearly in the wrong and quite frankly this has to be the kick in the arse the fans need to weed this utter shite out of our stands.

This is a threat to our future as much as any witch hunt/stitch up over EBTs. This threat is within our own support though and we need the mindset to change in line with modern times. This is not to say we bin our traditions – we just need to tweak certain things like singing songs of celebration instead of fxxking this guy/group or killing or maiming anyone.

We (the fans – C1872 or Union Bears if they have the will to do it and I would certainly contribute if they were seeking to raise funds to afford legal fees) need to take ownership of this and we need to seek legal advice over what is acceptable and what is not. We should not be waiting for the club to issue a list of acceptable chants.

Any investigation of FARE and their motives would need to be independent from the club.
 
Mate – I get the feeling that something is off here.

There is clear evidence that we are being specifically targeted by a group who have questionable motives.

The pisser is we have absolutely no defence for continuing to sing these songs.

We have been warned over the years – well warned and still they continue. This is disappointing as we had made real progress in weeding out the crap – and it is not just the Billy Boys or references to “19th Century Terrorist”.

We are playing in UEFA’s tournaments, we abide by their rules and the rules are clear.

We can’t make any push back from a position where we are clearly in the wrong and quite frankly this has to be the kick in the arse the fans need to weed this utter shite out of our stands.

This is a threat to our future as much as any witch hunt/stitch up over EBTs. This threat is within our own support though and we need the mindset to change in line with modern times. This is not to say we bin our traditions – we just need to tweak certain things like singing songs of celebration instead of fxxking this guy/group or killing or maiming anyone.

We (the fans – C1872 or Union Bears if they have the will to do it and I would certainly contribute if they were seeking to raise funds to afford legal fees) need to take ownership of this and we need to seek legal advice over what is acceptable and what is not. We should not be waiting for the club to issue a list of acceptable chants.

Any investigation of FARE and their motives would need to be independent from the club.


Agree with all of that bar the last sentence. The club needs to be taking on FARE (at the right time which is not now). Who else is going to do it?
 
Reading this thread I have the absolute fear we will be cited again with a stadium closure.

How difficult is it to understand that we have to really clean up our act for UEFA competition. We could have our stadium closed, and at worst expelled from the competition.

What do you think our manager will do if we are thrown out of Europe after reaching the group stages again? I doubt he will be here long in that scenario.

What cost is a stadium closure to the club in revenue? 1-2M?

Are our fans actually that stupid they want to derail our entire season and possibly chase our manager out the door?

All this is staring us right in the face because for a few games of football we cant sing about our club rather than some songs deemed offensive by the tournament organisers?

As for FARE why is it such a surprise to some folk? They have at this for over 10 years with us. People need to realise that by giving them ammo we can never attack them or do anything about them as we are in a self inflicted position of weakness. If we are squeaky clean we can go straight for the throat.

And as for this notion that UEFA are in cahoots with them that's utter nonsense. UEFA ignored their reports on us all last season. UEFA probably cant be bothered with them but they are a registered charity and if they complain about us enough times then UEFA are forced into action.
 
Piara Powar has a close connection to Dermott Desmond's son and has worked for his organisation . We have a right to question the impartiality of FARE and their chief executive and to question why they are targetting our club.
After we clean up our act THIS is what MUST happen, we can't throw stones from our glass house at the moment. They've made the mistake of doing just that and their time will come
 
You are completely missing the point here. Its an attack our culture and beliefs by a left wing pressure group who are totally ANTI BRITISH. Them forcing us to stop singing certain songs is exactly what they are after!!! If we do that, FARE and what they believe in have won. We should stop nothing, whatever the consequences. You are letting a very dodgy, left wing British hating pressure group decide what songs the famous Glasgow Rangers sing. Unbelievable we roll over that easy

you are an idiot.

it has been explained by numerous organisations and even our own club that singing about/against catholics, the pope etc is not going to be tolerated.

That's the end of it. If you are so stupid that you seem to think that we should keep on doing it and subsequently get kicked out of Europe and all the other consequences just because it is "oor kultchure" then i don't know what else to say.

Go sing about that sort of stuff somewhere else - the club have told the support numerous times its not welcome.
 
After we clean up our act


THIS is what MUST happen, we can't throw stones from our glass house at the moment. They've made the mistake of doing just that and their time will come


thats 2 points in the stock answer reply for this thread! you could have used whataboutery and that was a jackpot score
 
thats 2 points in the stock answer reply for this thread! you could have used whataboutery and that was a jackpot score
Have you just learned what you believe the meaning of whataboutery to be, and it's your new go to word!
Your definition is wrong because there's nothing whataboutery in what I said mate
 
For me the OP is spot on.

Its the manner of this " charge" The "Claimant" has a hatred of Rangers and is linked like a spiders web to liewells chamber of brushed over horrors.

Okay, lets get one thing straight, i think being able to or not being able to sing offending songs is a nonsense. HOWEVER the rules say we cant - so we cant. We MUST stop. And for the record I am a regular attendee ( and season ticket holder at Ibrox and i DO not and NEVER have sung the offending songs)

But i do feel slightly, no not slightly, hugely discriminated against. We are NOT the only club to be "naughty" but we are the only one to be thrashed for it.

We need total impartiality no matter what competition and our board can do so so much more to fight the corner that we are in.

Whilst we must to as Dave King says and follow the guidelines laid out we should be looking for more action elsewhere.
 
And as for this notion that UEFA are in cahoots with them that's utter nonsense. UEFA ignored their reports on us all last season. UEFA probably cant be bothered with them but they are a registered charity and if they complain about us enough times then UEFA are forced into action.

It was UEFAs observer apparently, a Norwegian chap, who reported the songs.

I reckon the scenario is that UEFA have got bored with FARE constantly reporting us, and FARE have spat the dummy.

UEFA send their own guy and unfortunately our support give him the evidence.

We know FARE are at every game we play in Europe, we know they are operating to an agenda, I suspect that UEFA do too.

If we get our act together then we starve FARE out.
 
Does anyone think if we stopped singing the Billy boys and the adds on the corrupt FARE would stop targeting our songs?
This organisation have been after us for decades they would be offended with other songs. Our board should be questioning why FARE seem to target one club ours.
We can all Google to see the Racism and bigotry from FARE and they're very political so why are UEFA using them.
I think we (The Fans/1872 etc ) should start a another Fighting Fund and be seeking a human rights lawyer to go after FARE and expose them for their hatred of our club.
 
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So you don't actually want the songs defended, you want the club to engage in finger-pointing?

See this finger pointing and whataboutery argument, it does nothing but shutdown discussion.

In order to help the club/fans and even society. You have to explain why the double standards or how things are being viewed and reported.

Otherwise it just raises questions and it usually gets peoples backs up who then react negatively to being told to do something when others are allowed to do similar.

Its human nature...treat one set of people differently and get unrest. Treat everyone the same and explain reasons and usually we comply.
 
There is no defending it. UEFA are judge and jury. We don't stand trial or go to court, the charge is the charge. Fans said the word in question. Don't say the word, that's literally all people have to do. That's what the club have told you.
 
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