Reasoning behind our transfer targets

MSF said:
Its not FM mate.

Far easier said that done getting rid of the high number of average players we have on decent wages. Otherwise they would of been gone long ago.
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So you think in all seriousness we will have Hererra, Dodoo, Hodson, Holt, Wallace and the many others in our squad next season?

We will have a budget to pay certain players off, others will Leave for Free, others will go for free to other clubs or for a nominal fee, some will go on loan, any which way they will not be in the squad next season.

This 36 squad thing is nonsense when you are including players both on loan at the club and on loan away from the club.

We will have a massive turnaround of players in the summer, we will end up with a 22-25 man squad of players so players will need to be brought in who are a higher quality than some of the ones leaving, we obviously wont player for player replace that would be stupidity however we are in a situation which is close to being resolved 3 windows in, there might be a couple of stragglers left over but this is down to 3-4 years of poor recruitment by management teams.

BTW , Our wage to turnover Ratio is one of the best in Britain so it is nowhere near "bordering on negligence" in terms of our finance.
 
Buffalo said:
So you think in all seriousness we will have Hererra, Dodoo, Hodson, Holt, Wallace and the many others in our squad next season?

We will have a budget to pay certain players off, others will Leave for Free, others will go for free to other clubs or for a nominal fee, some will go on loan, any which way they will not be in the squad next season.

This 36 squad thing is nonsense when you are including players both on loan at the club and on loan away from the club.

We will have a massive turnaround of players in the summer, we will end up with a 22-25 man squad of players so players will need to be brought in who are a higher quality than some of the ones leaving, we obviously wont player for player replace that would be stupidity however we are in a situation which is close to being resolved 3 windows in, there might be a couple of stragglers left over but this is down to 3-4 years of poor recruitment by management teams.

BTW , Our wage to turnover Ratio is one of the best in Britain so it is nowhere near "bordering on negligence" in terms of our finance.
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I’m not including players on loan at the club, I’ve not included Coulibaly, Kent or Worrall. Its pretty obvious Davis will be here so I’ve included him.

If we have a 22 man squad in the summer and have shifted around 15 players I’ll wire my mouth shut. There is no way we’re doing that.

Its not easy to get rid of poor players who are paid highly.
 
MSF said:
I’m not including players on loan at the club, I’ve not included Coulibaly, Kent or Worrall. Its pretty obvious Davis will be here so I’ve included him.

If we have a 22 man squad in the summer and have shifted around 15 players I’ll wire my mouth shut. There is no way we’re doing that.

Its not easy to get rid of poor players who are paid highly.
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Name me players you think will still be at the club.
 
MSF said:
McGregor, Foderingham, Alnwick, Firth

Tavernier, Polster, Hodson
Goldson, Katic
Barisic, Flanagan, Halliday

Jack, Arfield, Kamara, Davis, Rossiter, Dorrans, McCrorie, Holt, Doherty

Candeias, Grezda, Stewart, Hastie
Murphy, Jones, Middleton

Morelos, Defoe, Lafferty, Herrera, Dodoo, Hardie

Its actually 34, had originally included Wallace & McAuley.
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So let's trim some fat here shall we?

Hodson, Holt, Middelton (loan), Herrera, Dodoo, Hardie

I'd say the above are the minimum unlikely to be here next season.

Suddenly your squad of 36 is 28. I don't even think that'll be the end of the cutting back.

With some quality additions it's not an unrealistic squad.

edit: Also I don't know why you think a 22 man squad is realistic. We need MORE than 2 players for each position for the sake of competition. I don't know of any top teams who'd be happy at a 22 man squad.
 
Gaz030191 said:
So let's trim some fat here shall we?

Hodson, Holt, Middelton (loan), Herrera, Dodoo, Hardie

I'd say the above are the minimum unlikely to be here next season.

Suddenly your squad of 36 is 28. I don't even think that'll be the end of the cutting back.

With some quality additions it's not an unrealistic squad.
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Who is going to take these players?

Thats the thing. Its so easy to say they won’t be here, but in reality if that was the case then they would of been sold last summer.
 
MSF said:
I’ve no idea, I do know we won’t get rid of every bit of deadwood, and there is plenty, this summer.
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And As I said, there will be a couple of stragglers, but to say we shouldn't be looking at strengthening the squad and should be minimising players coming in is ridiculous, if anything we will have 1 or 2 who don't move on, we will be looking at at least 10 leaving this summer before we think about players leaving as a result of bids from other clubs we don't expect.

We need to be bringing in better squad players to help push the challenge, this will be in tandem with players good enough to start most games and who are the spine of the 11.

We cannot go into next season with players like Lafferty, McAuley, or Wallace as the squad players, I would look at moving on far more than I think we will aswell but Gerrard seems to have a soft spot for a couple of players who are nowhere near good enough.

As I said before, our wage to turnover % is one of the best in Britain, the board are certainly not being negligible as you claimed.
 
MSF said:
Who is going to take these players?

Thats the thing. Its so easy to say they won’t be here, but in reality if that was the case then they would of been sold last summer.
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Other clubs don't need to take them.
 
I am hoping/praying we are targeting dross like this to give the mentally challengeds false hope they don't need to spend much in the summer then last minute we pull a few worldies out the bag and they don't have time to strengthen.

Wishful thinking and all that.
 
We need to sign a quality attacking central midfielder and have a back up attacking central midfielder, to me Stewart looks like a solid back up. Clearly, the club sees it that way too, because the negotiations have dragged on suggesting we aren't really throwing silly money to get him. But they want him on a free, for reasonable wages as a back up because we don't currently have any squad players who can do that. Useful on the bench as well because he can cover a couple of positions.
I am not sure about Jones; but Middleton needs to be sent out on loan for his development, Kent might not be around next year, Murphy might not be the same player after his injury and there are big questions around Grezda. So bringing in an experienced left winger on a free seems again sensible but its a shame he doesn't have an eye for goal.
Hastie is a no brainer.
Souttar's signing for me is the most problematic, I was hoping we would be going for a "Marquee" Centre Back who is better than what we have. Maybe supported by SPFL journeyman on a free transfer as our 4th choice for the position. While Souttar is alright and could do a job moving the ball quickly against teams who have parked the bus against us, he is no better than Goldson or Katic and way too expensive to be our four choice in that area.
 
MSF said:
Who is going to take these players?

Thats the thing. Its so easy to say they won’t be here, but in reality if that was the case then they would of been sold last summer.
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I agree we may not get a fee for them, but this debate isn't about the fees. The only cost we'd be looking at for the incoming players being discussed are wages.

All of the players I've mentioned will easily find Loan clubs, and some may even move for small fees such as Holt to Fleetwood.

We're not spending big money on these guys coming in, and they'll provide depth and cover for their positions.

As mentioned a few times throughout this thread, it's not like this will be our only business this year.
 
If Stewart signs I would expect to see him playing on the right. Watching him earlier in the season he appeared to do much of his best work cutting inside from the right and skinning the fullback. He seemed to be ripping the piss out of fullbacks on a weekly basis back then.
 
MSF said:
So we’re going to pay off 5-10 players contracts?

Has an arab invested that I’ve missed?

We just put the ST prices up, again. We’re not cash rich.
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Who said 5-10 players?

You realise it isn't all or nothing?

Some will go for free, some will go on loan, some will be sold, a couple will probably get a payoff of some of the contract.

We will have cash set aside for it.

And again, despite your financially negligible claims, we are actually being run wage to turnover % wise one of best in Britain.
 
You can only judge the success of a transfer window when it closes. Clearly the 3 names mentioned by the OP aren’t going to cause a stampede at the TO
 
Walters80 said:
I would be utterly astonished if Hearts sell us Soutter. They will want double what he’s worth considering how bitter a muppet fan base they have. Guaranteed they will price us out of moving for him.

(Stewart) why not give Middleton and Hardie that place in the squad next season and use those wages on better quality? Stewart will be Lafferty Mark 2 and will start half a dozen games at most next season.

(Hastie) Probably around 18 months minimum before you would see him become a regular in the side.

Just seems to me like lazy scouting why have a DOF on a big wage to identify these types of players?
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Lazy scouting?
How about lazy posting.
It’s at least eight weeks till the window opens .
Ten to twelve before pre-season train starts and sixteen till the window closes.
Yet fans are getting all agitated about the players were being linked with and slating the DoF for not doing his job properly!
Slow down everybody.
I posted before the January window that we’d be linked with about a hundred players.
That was covered by the first week.
It’s going to happen again this summer.
Let’s see where we are when pre season starts.
Then again at the end of the window.
Otherwise, there’s going to be heart attacks at this rate.
 
Buffalo said:
Who said 5-10 players?

You realise it isn't all or nothing?

Some will go for free, some will go on loan, some will be sold, a couple will probably get a payoff of some of the contract.

We will have cash set aside for it.

And again, despite your financially negligible claims, we are actually being run wage to turnover % wise one of best in Britain.
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OK I’ll bite to the last part since its the 3rd/4th time you’ve said it. Lets see the source.
 
Vamos_buffalo said:
What does it matter that it’s April?

Just because it’s April means it’s good business signing bang average players like Greg Stewart?
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We’ve signed him?
No, not that?
We’ve told everybody we’re after him?
Not that either?
FFS, what level are the negotiations at?
 
tazzabear said:
We’ve signed him?
No, not that?
We’ve told everybody we’re after him?
Not that either?
FFS, what level are the negotiations at?
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Don’t know mate just going on the discussions.

I’m saying IF we sign him it’s not exactly filling me with enthusiasm whether it was April or July
 
50p Flute said:
Wait until Souttar tries to zing a a few passes at Ibrox and doesn't pull it off, the reactions from the stands will see him reduced to 10/15 yard passes from there on in.
I said to a few of the mates last night about Ajax and the wonderful young team they have developed, we have youth teams who are doing fantastic but always seem to fall short, the fact we have a very impatient home support doesn't help matters.
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Frame this. In fact, blow it up, frame, copy it, and distribute it to every seat at Ibrox. I couldn’t agree more with ur statement bro, and it pisses me off
 
they're concerned because these players are rank

we have enough dross to get rid of without wasting more cash on more of them
 
MSF said:
OK I’ll bite to the last part since its the 3rd/4th time you’ve said it. Lets see the source.
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It is in the accounts.

You claimed the board were being financially negligible, you are wrong, if you go and look at the accounts you will see how wrong you are.
 
Buffalo said:
It is in the accounts.

You claimed the board were being financially negligible, you are wrong, if you go and look at the accounts you will see how wrong you are.
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I said considering how big our squad is it was bordering on negligence. Don’t put words in my mouth.

You’re saying we are being run wage to turnover % one of the best in Britain. You must have the figures for every British club, so lets see.
 
I bet Stevie G had to bend over backwards just to get Goldson to sign - a man who had had a major heart OP and hardly featured for a low-level EPL team.
That is the new reality.
No massive wages and no big stars anymore.
Some folk still think it’s the 1990s.
 
50p Flute said:
Wait until Souttar tries to zing a a few passes at Ibrox and doesn't pull it off, the reactions from the stands will see him reduced to 10/15 yard passes from there on in.
I said to a few of the mates last night about Ajax and the wonderful young team they have developed, we have youth teams who are doing fantastic but always seem to fall short, the fact we have a very impatient home support doesn't help matters.
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I almost hate to admit I like this post.
Seriously, it’s something I’ve been banging on about since, well, forever.
With our fans though, it goes beyond new signings.
Our manager gets it and our kids get it.
 
tazzabear said:
Lazy scouting?
How about lazy posting.
It’s at least eight weeks till the window opens .
Ten to twelve before pre-season train starts and sixteen till the window closes.
Yet fans are getting all agitated about the players were being linked with and slating the DoF for not doing his job properly!
Slow down everybody.
I posted before the January window that we’d be linked with about a hundred players.
That was covered by the first week.
It’s going to happen again this summer.
Let’s see where we are when pre season starts.
Then again at the end of the window.
Otherwise, there’s going to be heart attacks at this rate.
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Yes it’s lazy from the point of view of potential Bosman/free transfers whatever you want to call them it’s ridiculous our net doesn’t spread more than 20 miles away.

Said it a few times now but a club like ours who can’t spend huge money on fees needs to be looking at a decent level of out of contract players and these type of players are snapped up or approached in January/February time.

The best we can come up with in Bosman signings are players from Kilmarnock, Aberdeen and Motherwell do we really need a director of football to identify these types of signings? What exactly is Allen getting big bucks for given the level of signings being suggested so far?
 
[/QUOTE]
We haven’t signed anybody!
Nor, for that matter has anybody else who is significant.
Is that in itself not, well, significant?
 
tazzabear said:
We haven’t signed anybody!
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Not yet but it’s clear we are incapable of looking beyond the SPFL for decent level free transfers given the level of guys we are linked with/rumoured to be in talks with.

We do not have the money to pay big transfer fees for 5/6 players so our scouting in the out of contract market should be vastly better than watching Kilmarnock.
 
tazzabear said:
I almost hate to admit I like this post.
Seriously, it’s something I’ve been banging on about since, well, forever.
With our fans though, it goes beyond new signings.
Our manager gets it and our kids get it.
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It's infuriating but I can't see it ever changing to be perfectly honest.
It did seem to taper off a wee bit as we came back through the leagues but it's never went away and if it was ever going to it would be during that time.
 
Necro said:
The transfer window is months away from opening, the reason we’re linked with squad options now is because that’s what we’re after. Low cost/free signings to improve the overall quality of the squad.

Marquee players won’t be signed until the window opens
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Where are we getting all this money for said Marquee players?
 
@MSF


You query Hodson, Holt, Middelton (loan), Herrera, Dodoo, Hardie

Arent all these guys with the exception of Middleton out of contract this summer?

Edit...Dodoo with another year, thats criminal from Warburton. Holt has 1 more year, Herrera too? FFS.

Didnt Hardie get a 1yr contract last summer?
 
S
Polar bear said:
Where are we getting all this money for said Marquee players?
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Sorry for jumping in mate, but I’ll be astounded if Morelos isn’t sold this summer and if what we make from that doesn’t form the majority of our transfer budget this summer-how much we get is another matter and to quote the age old saying ‘depends on how much clubs are willing to pay ‘
(Apologies for the cliche also)
 
TN8 said:
This time of year is always a good laugh.

We make or are linked with a couple of early Bosman signings or SPL guys who'll likely end up being good squad fillers, and folk go into full blown tampon-launching mode as if they're the only signings we're going to make in the entire transfer window, which isn't even fucking open yet.
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Absolutely spot on.
I spent an hr one Saturday morning trying to explain squad fillers to some nugget on here and why they are required .
The response was rangers shouldn’t have squad fillers :rolleyes:
 
50p Flute said:
Wait until Souttar tries to zing a a few passes at Ibrox and doesn't pull it off, the reactions from the stands will see him reduced to 10/15 yard passes from there on in.
I said to a few of the mates last night about Ajax and the wonderful young team they have developed, we have youth teams who are doing fantastic but always seem to fall short, the fact we have a very impatient home support doesn't help matters.
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Most big clubs have an impatient support. If players are good enough they won’t go into a shell they will continue to play the passes.
 
cav said:
S

Sorry for jumping in mate, but I’ll be astounded if Morelos isn’t sold this summer and if what we make from that doesn’t form the majority of our transfer budget this summer-how much we get is another matter and to quote the age old saying ‘depends on how much clubs are willing to pay ‘
(Apologies for the cliche also)
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That is the only way (Id do it) to get anything resembling a Marquee player.
 
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The Royal Standard said:
Absolutely spot on.
I spent an hr one Saturday morning trying to explain squad fillers to some nugget on here and why they are required .
The response was rangers shouldn’t have squad fillers :rolleyes:
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That's why we refused to sign John Brown, because Rangers don't sign squad players who have never been capped, from crappy little Scottish teams. In fact there is a whole thread there isn't there who is your favourite squad player signed on the cheap from a crap Scottish team.
 
It’s not signings like Stewart, Souter and Hastie that will determine the success of the summer window, these are the players that come in and provide squad depth as we move a few players on while leaving us with more money to spend on our main targets.

It is the 3 or 4 quality players that will take us to the next level that will matter and the club know that
 
Buffalo said:
36 Players, with several to leave, several to be in and out to gain experience, in reality we will have a core squad of 22 players or roundabout that number.

Just now our squad looks like the below

1GKAllan McGregor
2DFJames Tavernier (captain)
3DFJoe Worrall (on loan from Nottingham Forest)
4MFGraham Dorrans
5DFLee Wallace
6DFConnor Goldson (vice-captain)
7FWJamie Murphy
8MFRyan Jack
9FWJermain Defoe (on loan from Bournemouth)
10MFSteven Davis (on loan from Southampton)
11FWKyle Lafferty
13GKWes Foderingham
14MFRyan Kent (on loan from Liverpool)
15DFJon Flanagan

16MFAndy Halliday
17MFRoss McCrorie
18MFGlen Kamara
19DFNikola Katić
20FWAlfredo Morelos
21MFDaniel Candeias
23MFLassana Coulibaly (on loan from Angers)
25MFMatt Polster
31DFBorna Barišić
32GKAndy Firth
35MFEros Grezda
36DFGareth McAuley
37MFScott Arfield
40MFGlenn Middleton

The likes of McAuley, Polster, Coulibaly, Kent, Foderingham, Morelos, Lafferty, Wallace, Worrall will likely not be here/.

Firth, Middleton, Hastie will be for the future with the odd appearance

That is you down to a 15 man first team squad in essence add Docherty its 16.

So we need to be strengthening numbers with quality and some squad players to get us up to the required numbers.

I am not even going to include the ones who are definitely leaving, Holt, Hodson, Dodoo, Hererra etc as they will not be at the club come September no matter what.
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You the new Paul Daniels, 36 to 22 to 15 to 16 in the blink of an eye.

Have we just cancelled the signing of Jones too and getting rid of Polster having just signed him and not having played a game.
 
Slickrick said:
Are they good enough to challenge for the title. Looks like wages spunked on average players to me.
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Maybe not next season but the season after that or the one after they might be. We have snap up the best young talent and look to develop them into stars of the future. It’s the exact same for them, what they done with Armstrong, Christie, what they’re hoping to do with the young winger from St Mirren. Some won’t work but it’s what we have to do.

We also need players this summer that will improve the first team, I’m sure they’ll come too.
 
We don’t need anymore squad players We need to be signing players who’ll come straight into the starting 11 and turn Candieas, Jack, Goldson, etc into squad players
 
helicopter-sunday said:
We've always bought the 'best' players from other Scottish clubs, this is no different.

First of all in Scotland you need to win the battle, and having players who know what Scottish football about is key to that.

Then you chuck in a few real quality signings and you have the making of a good team.

Let's get behind these lads.
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Yes but sadly over the years we have had our fingers burned a number of times, Ally Maxwell, Darius Adamczyk, Brian Reid, Gavin Rae, Ian Murray, Andy Webster, Paul Ritchie, Gary Bollan, Alan Gow, Allan Johnston, David Templeton, Micky O’Halloran to name more than a team of them off the top of my head.
 
MSF said:
Stewart & Jones are awful signings. No matter the wage, the fee, the month we’re signing them. None of that matters. Their ability and mentality does, and they don’t cut it.
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Completely agreed with your post until this bit, I just can’t see why fans aren’t Willing to give jones a chance he’s been class for Northern Ireland and has turned up in big games vs us and them for Kilmarnock , he’s also a different type of winger to what we already have he’s be my 2/3rd choice behind Murphy and Kent if he hangs around
 
Soutar. We could have had him for pennies when he left Dundee Utd. However the usual suspects on here would have berated him as he improved and developed just like David Bates.

Look at Ajax this week. A lot of youngish players in their team that came in and struggled to start with but they stuck with them and look where it has got them.

We need to also identify the next John Soutar and buy him when he doesn’t cost £2m and develop him.
 
MSF said:
Souttar would become our 2nd choice & bring something extra due to his ability on the ball. Something we desperately need at centre back. However I have my doubts regarding the price. I wouldn’t be paying much more than 1.5-2m when you consider his injurys & lack of pace/athleticism.

Hastie has good potential, however he is on the same level as Middleton as shouldn’t really be near our first team on a consistent basis.

Stewart & Jones are awful signings. No matter the wage, the fee, the month we’re signing them. None of that matters. Their ability and mentality does, and they don’t cut it.
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FFS how can you make a statement like that. Stewart played very well for Kilmarnock in a role we struggle to fill. You seem to have an inside track on their mentality how the hell can you make a comment like that without any knowledge or them being given a shot?

This kind of stupid post just heaps pressure on players before they kick a ball. For me it is your mentality that doesn’t cut it.
 
JohnBrownsboot said:
FFS how can you make a statement like that. Stewart played very well for Kilmarnock in a role we struggle to fill. You seem to have an inside track on their mentality how the hell can you make a comment like that without any knowledge or them being given a shot?

This kind of stupid post just heaps pressure on players before they kick a ball. For me it is your mentality that doesn’t cut it.
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Luckily I’m not going to play for Rangers then eh.

Stewart was given a free role at Killie, and Dundee, is he going to be given that here? No, of course not.
 
Throughout our most successful periods we’ve always had 2 or 3 Scottish players that we’ve bought from other Scottish teams ,Davie Robertson ,Neil McCann etc people need to chill out ,I think we do need guys like maybe Souttar etc as they won’t get bullied in this league ,it’s half the battle being strong enough in this league we need some players that are used to fighting like mad to win a ball every Saturday .
 
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