Napsburybear
Well-Known Member
The way this whole charade has played out it will be engineered so that Farts stay up.
Reconstruction - 3 top flight teams dont back it
- Thread starter Homelander
- Start date
Barca Bear
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that VB.The Premiership doesn’t have its own prize pot. The entire pot is split between all 42 clubs on a percentage basis according to your position in the 42 clubs. E.G. 13.4% for club 1 and 0.18% for club 42.
Easily seen from this:
SPFL prize pot reaches £25m | SPFL
Prize money of £25 million will be paid to clubs for season 2018/19...spfl.co.uk
it makes it easier to explain.
given the figures you’ve shown, and no increases,
if the new league of 14 was in place and using your table,
13 wouldnt earn £ 562,500 and
14 wouldn’t earn £475,000.
Their prize money would increase to be closer to 12th.
as a result the next 28 receive less money between them than at present.
thanks again for the figures.
tottie beck
Well-Known Member
Hibs, Hamilton, and St Mirren are my guess
Hibs will want to damage their greatest rivals, Hamilton are perennial relegation candidates, and St Mirren have struggled to get a foothold since coming back up in 2017
Hibs will want to damage their greatest rivals, Hamilton are perennial relegation candidates, and St Mirren have struggled to get a foothold since coming back up in 2017
Interesting regards the prize money. Shows how short sighted/played Hearts have been.
Are any other countries leagues as fractured as ours. Truly embarrassing state of affairs.
Starting Anew
Well-Known Member
think that’s it. But it would leave 13 miles adrift from 12 and pretty much guarantee their relegation the next year. It would be a bit mental.
1288Bear
Well-Known Member
Not exactly. What Hearts are proposing is not that the teams from 15 to 42 get less to fund the increase to clubs 13 and 14. They are proposing teams 1 - 12 pay for that increase as far as I understand.
The Union Flag
Well-Known Member
Id like us to vote No. And I say that as someone who believes we need the biggest and strongest teams to at least try and improve this sham of a league.
However, as someone who has had the phrase “sporting integrity” thrown at me for the last 13 years or so, I couldn’t possibly agree with awarding a title and not relegation. You can’t have one but not the other.
Of course this whole debacle could have been avoided and true sporting integrity could have taken place by finishing the season or at the very least calling it null and void.
I suspect Hearts will goto court which suits us down to the ground because it’ll expose the corruption of those at the top of the spfl.
However, as someone who has had the phrase “sporting integrity” thrown at me for the last 13 years or so, I couldn’t possibly agree with awarding a title and not relegation. You can’t have one but not the other.
Of course this whole debacle could have been avoided and true sporting integrity could have taken place by finishing the season or at the very least calling it null and void.
I suspect Hearts will goto court which suits us down to the ground because it’ll expose the corruption of those at the top of the spfl.
sw26
Well-Known Member
You will have to walk me through this logic.
There is no circumstance that Hearts stay up without the clubs voting in favour of that, which seems very unlikely at this point. I don’t really get this notion that the SPFL board can just unilaterally force through changes off their own back - there would have been no need for the Dundee shambles if that was true.
Biggus Dickus
Well-Known Member
If it fails I'm sure they'll be offered friendlies with big hitters to stop them going the legal route.
Barca Bear
Well-Known Member
Thanks m8.
my original too long rant on this came from the sheep owner back in April who was explaining his discussion with ND about not calling the prem until reconstruction was discussed.
the papers then produced the table of prize money as is posted above and explained the 13/14 increase if they were in the new prem.
Definately stated that the remaining 28’s % of pot would be lower.
This was way before the budge present proposal,
cheers.
According to Stephen McGowans column in the Daily Mail this morning the Hearts proposal is going to fail but it won't matter as reconstruction is going to get forced through anyway.
By the sounds of it Doncaster is going to start bullying the lower league teams to make it happen.
By the sounds of it Doncaster is going to start bullying the lower league teams to make it happen.
1288Bear
Well-Known Member
Got to say I was surprised at Budge's proposal. If she left the money alone she only needed 75% in the Premiership and would have had a better chance of getting it through.
Looks to me like she's resigned to the fact it was unlikely to get approved. She knows that they will be portrayed as the ones killing off clubs if they go legal so perhaps trying to get a more even split of the cash without affecting those further down was some desperate attempt to appease people in advance of any pending legal case.
I'm normally fairly decent at reading between the lines and trying to second guess people and understand their motives but this whole thing has been totally baffling with so many twists it's been difficult to follow or, indeed, to simply keep up.
So much sh1te just to award 1 tainted title.
The SPFL could have saved us all a lot of trouble if they just came out at the start and said "look there's going to be no more football played this season, teams currently at the top of their leagues are to be declared champions, all prize money will be distributed based on current positions but nobody will be relegated. We will promote the top two in every division including adding the winners of the Highland and Lowland League into Div 2 and everyone will be happy - oh sorry everyone but Rangers but f-ck them" and it would probably have sailed through with only ourselves objecting.
Twosignals
Well-Known Member
I would have laughed at you in posts gone, I know it’s outrageous, however the way things are going with Liewells tight grip on the SPFL, how many teams would jump ship?
bluetonic
Well-Known Member
Was he standing on a roundabout while saying this?
Clyde having no truck with it:
www.clydefc.co.uk
Club Statement: Hearts' Proposal
Sat, 30th May 2020 10:39am
We have reviewed the current Hearts reconstruction document in detail and recognise the challenge faced by Ms Budge to deliver a solution that is appropriate across all 42 SPFL clubs.
The document raises the major points of relevance, in particular the underlying threat to Scottish Football from Covid-19. If we have a criticism, it is that it is a top down approach which fails to give due regard to teams outside the Premiership. It lacks the independence of thought that might have delivered a truly holistic solution across all of the leagues and those outside the SPFL. That criticism is not aimed at Ms Budge’s attempts, nobody who is not wholly independent can do other than have particular regard to their own club.
The core of the proposal - to a top 14 - seems to be the most urgent matter to be resolved, as we appreciate the central revenue generating league requires clarity for a number of commercial and practical reasons.
However, that clarity is critical for the other clubs across the leagues as well. The reality is that the landscape for returning to football remains uncertain, particularly for the clubs below Premiership level. The financial resources and sustainability of clubs when testing costs of perhaps £120,000 per season per club, perhaps with no crowds and no hospitality, are still unknown factors. These major factors might become clearer in the coming weeks or months, so it seems premature to enforce a structure across the rest of the leagues simply because it appears to work for the Premiership.
In these special circumstances it would make more sense to find a way to resolve the situation for the Premiership, then allow the remaining teams to develop their own solution in the coming months, having regard to the factors that they find themselves facing. Of course, it is a fact that the rules do not currently allow for such an approach, but in special circumstances there has to be a way to deal with the challenges we face.
The simple 3 x 14 solution proposed by Hearts implies that the teams below the Premiership could essentially look after themselves, but this should not automatically require a structure of two leagues of 14. It actually makes sense to allow those clubs to draw up their own solution and at that point factoring in the review of the pyramid structure below.
The Hearts paper points to the possibility that some clubs might not play at all in the coming season. That is a serious and concerning issue for clubs, so setting a new structure now, when clubs might decide to ‘mothball’ for a season, risks further disruption, and perhaps the loss of all football for all clubs below the Premiership. Far better to establish who can and cannot play with the clearest possible view of the future, with perhaps a deadline set for when clubs decide.
Decisions on the future structure of football in Scotland are being made unnecessarily quickly. This should not be a conversation about reconstruction as such, it should be a conversation about how we can structure football so that as many teams as are able can take to the field as soon as possible.
The information that should inform the structure of the leagues will be as much to do with how many clubs can play, and when the leagues can start. These decisions will be driven by the public health messages that clubs can respond to. At the moment, 3 x 14 is not necessarily a solution for the teams below the Premiership and any rush to put such a structure in place fails to recognise what the current public health measures and financial challenges mean for clubs.
Despite all the challenges our club faces and the difficulties which have been exacerbated by Covid-19, we continue to aspire to progress under the existing structure. On that basis, we have no intention of voting for a proposal that fails to resolve the issue in a manner that addresses the concerns of all clubs in membership of the SPFL.
May 30, 2020
www.clydefc.co.uk
Club Statement: Hearts' Proposal
Sat, 30th May 2020 10:39am
We have reviewed the current Hearts reconstruction document in detail and recognise the challenge faced by Ms Budge to deliver a solution that is appropriate across all 42 SPFL clubs.
The document raises the major points of relevance, in particular the underlying threat to Scottish Football from Covid-19. If we have a criticism, it is that it is a top down approach which fails to give due regard to teams outside the Premiership. It lacks the independence of thought that might have delivered a truly holistic solution across all of the leagues and those outside the SPFL. That criticism is not aimed at Ms Budge’s attempts, nobody who is not wholly independent can do other than have particular regard to their own club.
The core of the proposal - to a top 14 - seems to be the most urgent matter to be resolved, as we appreciate the central revenue generating league requires clarity for a number of commercial and practical reasons.
However, that clarity is critical for the other clubs across the leagues as well. The reality is that the landscape for returning to football remains uncertain, particularly for the clubs below Premiership level. The financial resources and sustainability of clubs when testing costs of perhaps £120,000 per season per club, perhaps with no crowds and no hospitality, are still unknown factors. These major factors might become clearer in the coming weeks or months, so it seems premature to enforce a structure across the rest of the leagues simply because it appears to work for the Premiership.
In these special circumstances it would make more sense to find a way to resolve the situation for the Premiership, then allow the remaining teams to develop their own solution in the coming months, having regard to the factors that they find themselves facing. Of course, it is a fact that the rules do not currently allow for such an approach, but in special circumstances there has to be a way to deal with the challenges we face.
The simple 3 x 14 solution proposed by Hearts implies that the teams below the Premiership could essentially look after themselves, but this should not automatically require a structure of two leagues of 14. It actually makes sense to allow those clubs to draw up their own solution and at that point factoring in the review of the pyramid structure below.
The Hearts paper points to the possibility that some clubs might not play at all in the coming season. That is a serious and concerning issue for clubs, so setting a new structure now, when clubs might decide to ‘mothball’ for a season, risks further disruption, and perhaps the loss of all football for all clubs below the Premiership. Far better to establish who can and cannot play with the clearest possible view of the future, with perhaps a deadline set for when clubs decide.
Decisions on the future structure of football in Scotland are being made unnecessarily quickly. This should not be a conversation about reconstruction as such, it should be a conversation about how we can structure football so that as many teams as are able can take to the field as soon as possible.
The information that should inform the structure of the leagues will be as much to do with how many clubs can play, and when the leagues can start. These decisions will be driven by the public health messages that clubs can respond to. At the moment, 3 x 14 is not necessarily a solution for the teams below the Premiership and any rush to put such a structure in place fails to recognise what the current public health measures and financial challenges mean for clubs.
Despite all the challenges our club faces and the difficulties which have been exacerbated by Covid-19, we continue to aspire to progress under the existing structure. On that basis, we have no intention of voting for a proposal that fails to resolve the issue in a manner that addresses the concerns of all clubs in membership of the SPFL.
Valley Bluenose
RTV? Completed it mate!
Some of the supposedly better informed posters on Kickback said the SPFL Exec would take Budge's plan, tweak it and run with it as their own - forcing it through as an 'emergency' measure. They pointed to the SPFL Articles and, specifically, Article 103, as stating this was possible.
I had a look at Article 103 and it does give them some powers. However, it also says 'subject to Article 104'. So, off I went to Article 104, which states that 'the Board shall not...determine a Reserved Matter without the prior approval of the required percentage(s) of the relevant members in a General Meeting'.
Changing the number of teams in the league or changing the prize money distribution is a Reserved Matter. So, the same percentages would apply, i.e. 90% (11-1) in the top flight.
1288Bear
Well-Known Member
No surprise that Clyde are against Hearts proposal as they are one of four Division 1 teams who would be demoted to the bottom tier of Scottish Football.
Says an awful lot and alludes to self interest being the driver for others but fails to acknowledge it as the key factor in their decision.
He also seems to suggest that they could decide on a top four premiership just now and leave the rest to make up their own minds later - his preferred option being 3 leagues of 10 which would keep him in League 1. In a series of bizarre suggestions this has to be one of the strangest yet - although I could have misread that section.
Says an awful lot and alludes to self interest being the driver for others but fails to acknowledge it as the key factor in their decision.
He also seems to suggest that they could decide on a top four premiership just now and leave the rest to make up their own minds later - his preferred option being 3 leagues of 10 which would keep him in League 1. In a series of bizarre suggestions this has to be one of the strangest yet - although I could have misread that section.
temperance
Well-Known Member
Scottish football is an embarrassment, It really is 
Barca Bear
Well-Known Member
He might have been on here earlier in the week when I suggested to see who cannot play bcd. Then sort out the leagues with who is left.
