Referees abuse

#1
SFA saying they are disgusted at the levels and saying it’s the reason for a shortage. Enquiring into it to protect them and stop the abuse . Shame they couldn’t have protected the future of the game as to the young boys they knowingly allowed to be abused. The same boys many adults now whom pay for these cretins wages for without fans and boys clubs etc they are nothing with nothing.
 

Gogso

Well-Known Member
#7
It's Grassroots football they are talking about and, as a Secretary of an Under 19 team, I have to say they are correct. Some of the coaches are idiots and forget why they are there.
When my two sons were playing lads football the behaviour of some of the parents was horrendous.
Recall one father yelling at his U8 lad "what the Fluck are you doing, can't you kick a ball properly?"
Another time the Ref had to abandon the game due to the personal and obscene abuse he was taking from the 'coaches'. I later heard that he went around to the house of one of the culprits and decked him one..
 

clubdeckcharlie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#11
When my two sons were playing lads football the behaviour of some of the parents was horrendous.
Recall one father yelling at his U8 lad "what the Fluck are you doing, can't you kick a ball properly?"
Another time the Ref had to abandon the game due to the personal and obscene abuse he was taking from the 'coaches'. I later heard that he went around to the house of one of the culprits and decked him one..
Parents can and should be banned from attending by the club. Instead they feed off the coaches behaviour and make matters worse.
 

bristol_bnose2

Well-Known Member
#13
Interesting to see this thread crop up at the same time as other ones discussing why football in Scotland is so far behind the rest of Europe.

This is just another of many reasons. Bluntly, Scotland's attitude to football is about 50 years out of date. Hammer throwers on the pitch and mouth breathing fannies on the touch line demanding more hammer throwing.
 
#14
I agree, this is not a dig at the refs, they have a job to do . As we say grass roots level, that’s what the kids were grass roots level. This is my point without the stability , security and safety in this area for all concerned, the games abogie. It’s hypocritical of them not investigating why our grass roots platform has had more negatives than positives over the decades on these maters. We all want the best for out football clubs and our kids , it all starts at grass roots.
 
#15
I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football, so as a consequence they have no knowledge of the inner workings or the dynamics of the adult game with regards to passages of play and the physicality applied during a match. I think that's a large part of the problem in my opinion.
 
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bristol_bnose2

Well-Known Member
#17
I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football, so as a consequence they have no knowledge of the inner workings or the dynamics of the game with regards to passages of play and the physicality applied during a match. I think that's a large part of the problem in my opinion.
Rubbish. There are no "inner workings" or "dynamics" at play in schoolboy level football.

It boils down to aggressive ned mentality parents and coaches shouting abuse and losing their f88king minds when aggrieved by a decision.
 
#19
Rubbish. There are no "inner workings" or "dynamics" at play in schoolboy level football.

It boils down to aggressive ned mentality parents and coaches shouting abuse and losing their f88king minds when aggrieved by a decision.
I obviously wasn’t talking about kids level!
The "aggressive ned mentality" that you've just displayed with your know-it-all post yeah??
 

Mexi

Well-Known Member
#22
They threw the senior refs to the wolves 10 years ago

Only an issue when it suits them. Where have we hard that before?
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#25
Ah right, wasn’t obvious from the OP.

Fact remains though that if they professionalise refereeing and make salaries at the top end decent, it can only encourage more refs into the grass roots of the game.
Be realistic in the salary that would perhaps be on offer from the SFA at the level discussed here. Would you apply for a post that would be as well stating "as part of your role you will be subjected to personal abuse, intimidation, threats and bullying"?
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#26
£40 to be shoutted at by parents or dafties at the side of the park or at worse attacked over a game of football.

Where is the incentive.

In rugby there is a level of respect which isnt shown in football.
Folk will ask: 'There's a shortage of refs, why is that? I can't understand this, Scotland officials are shite.....blah blah!

The part highlighted in your post is bang on the £40.
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#27
I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football, so as a consequence they have no knowledge of the inner workings or the dynamics of the adult game with regards to passages of play and the physicality applied during a match. I think that's a large part of the problem in my opinion.
Whit!? :D:D:D:D:D:D

That's hilarious!
 
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mark hateley

Well-Known Member
#28
Folk will ask: 'There's a shortage of refs, why is that? I can't understand this, Scotland officials are shite.....blah blah!

The part highlighted in your post is bang on the £40.
If you want a some Saturday work I am sure for 6 hours you will get £40 and not be subject to abuse I.e. working in a leisure centre/gym or shop or even a taxi.
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#29
If you want a some Saturday work I am sure for 6 hours you will get £40 and not be subject to abuse I.e. working in a leisure centre/gym or shop or even a taxi.
Exactly.

What everyone seems to see as 'normal and accepted behaviour' towards officials is hardly an incentive to do it.
 

Ubik

Well-Known Member
#30
I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football, so as a consequence they have no knowledge of the inner workings or the dynamics of the adult game with regards to passages of play and the physicality applied during a match. I think that's a large part of the problem in my opinion.
nonsense imo
 

Scotitch

Active Member
#31
I was a youth coach and later a club secretary, no matter how much you spoke to other coaches or parents the abuse continued. I honestly struggle to see a solution to it because even after explaining that the club got fined and could potentially be expelled from the league it didn't stop.
 

ID10

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#32
Been a referee for 7 years, had some horrendous situations & threatened all sorts but thankfully never came to anything

Incidents are few & far between if you find a good league like I have

It’s enjoyable for me, I’m category 6 & referee adults on a Sunday
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#33
I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football, so as a consequence they have no knowledge of the inner workings or the dynamics of the adult game with regards to passages of play and the physicality applied during a match. I think that's a large part of the problem in my opinion.
Most refs at kids/amateur level are guys who used to play the game and do it for a few extra quid to their weekly wage.
Interestingly enough these are the guys who can actually ref to a half decent standard but will never progress to the top level of the game due to their age.
The only refs who I have ever witnessed that have been fully deserving of abuse has been the young guys about early 20's who may well go on and ref at a decent level, these young boys most of the time have absolutely zero people skills and struggle to cope with 2 teams trying to win and the emotions that go along with it. My boy plays under 14 level and we had a young guy like this recently who's answer every time a decision was challenged (by both sides) was "don't think so" in the most smug and arrogant tone possible, he totally lost control of the game and I said someone was going to get seriously hurt if he didn't get a grip, lo and behold a boy got a serious knee injury soon after. Now injuries happen but this was entirely avoidable had the wee clown kept control of the game.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#35
Nobody should be expected to put up with abuse for refereeing a game of fitba.
They might not be expected to put up with it but abuse is warranted at times, if you are saying that is isn't then I can't believe you have watched Rangers the last few years.
 
#37
I think he probably thinks it's nonsense to think refs have never played the game at all, i think it's also nonsense to think that.
Thanks for replying on his behalf, but I would tend to disagree with you. I don;t think anyone that is half decent or has competed at any decent level of football, which is the demographic I'm talking about has went on to become a referee. If you loved football and were good at it would you be doing games at the weekend like the twenty-somethings you've mentioned in your previous post?
 

Henrywatson115

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
#38
chase the parents away from early football and it will go some of the way to stop this .let the kids develop under the coaches in a safe friendly environment. I used to ref and said thos for along time .just my opinion
 

mark hateley

Well-Known Member
#39
Been a referee for 7 years, had some horrendous situations & threatened all sorts but thankfully never came to anything

Incidents are few & far between if you find a good league like I have

It’s enjoyable for me, I’m category 6 & referee adults on a Sunday
Has your car ever been targeted? Or have you been assaulted?
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#40
Thanks for replying on his behalf, but I would tend to disagree with you. I don;t think anyone that is half decent or has competed at any decent level of football, which is the demographic I'm talking about has went on to become a referee. If you loved football and were good at it would you be doing games at the weekend like the twenty-somethings you've mentioned in your previous post?
Glad you read my previous post, it's just a pity you couldn't understand it at all.
It's also a pity that we are not mind readers and don't have a magical gift that we are supposed to know what you are meaning when you don't say it.
You seem to be moving the goal posts as we move along.
 
#41
I was a youth coach and later a club secretary, no matter how much you spoke to other coaches or parents the abuse continued. I honestly struggle to see a solution to it because even after explaining that the club got fined and could potentially be expelled from the league it didn't stop.
Yip, the system is wrong. The club or more often the coach of the team is held responsible for player and parent behaviour, as it's his team. How is this fair? A coach, regardless of age/ experience should be responsible for the coaching staff and players only, he has the ability to deal with either of those 2 parties by subbing/ telling said person or people not to return to the team for the forseeable or ever depending on the relevant circumstances. However, are coaches able to deal with either a parent or indeed any other "passer by" who decides to shout abuse, given that most parks etc are public property? It will only stop when parents themselves are fined, which would involve police at every grass roots match, never going to happen. The player enjoyment is being robbed out of the game, not just refs!
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#42
chase the parents away from early football and it will go some of the way to stop this .let the kids develop under the coaches in a safe friendly environment. I used to ref and said thos for along time .just my opinion
Wait, are you are saying parents shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it? Or just the games?
Have you been reading the newspapers or the forum recently and the dangers kids face when they put trust in these coaches to provide a "safe friendly enviroment"?
Parents have every right to go along and watch their kids both train and play, parents also have the right (via coaches) to raise concern about a referees performance/conduct. Club officials also reserve the right to challenge officials if they deem fit.
At my boys level the only guy being paid to be there on a Saturday morning is the referee and people seem to think he can do what he likes without challenge? Absolute nonsense.
Clubs should (and usually do) have a strict code of conduct for parents as well as kids and i'll concede these aren't anywhere near enforced enough and all clubs should be encouraged to self police a lot better. There are arsehole parents/coaches at every club and they should be dealt with but to say parents should be 'chased' is a total non-starter.
 
#43
Glad you read my previous post, it's just a pity you couldn't understand it at all.
It's also a pity that we are not mind readers and don't have a magical gift that we are supposed to know what you are meaning when you don't say it.
You seem to be moving the goal posts as we move along.
No I did understand it, I just don't agree with it. I'll try and clarify what I'm getting at since you seem to have a bee in your bonnet going on the number of posters you're diving on.

People like Willie Collum, Andrew Dallas, Kevin Clancy, Craig Thomson etc I would put my house on it that they have never actively played organisation football in their late teens/early twenties......which is why I believe there are elements of the game they don't fully appreciate having never played at any sort of level.
 

Barryhopez

Well-Known Member
#44
No I did understand it, I just don't agree with it. I'll try and clarify what I'm getting at since you seem to have a bee in your bonnet going on the number of posters you're diving on.

People like Willie Collum, Andrew Dallas, Kevin Clancy, Craig Thomson etc I would put my house on it that they have never actively played organisation football in their late teens/early twenties......which is why I believe there are elements of the game they don't fully appreciate having never played at any sort of level.
That's not the point of the thread. By the amount of abuse officials take it seems that it is deemed 'normal' to abuse and threaten which is hardly going to attract people to do the job.

For example, if you personally get into officiating but haven't played at any level does the fat parent hungover from the night before hurling abuse at your every decision know better because he played in Saturday morning football?

(I appreciate that example is extreme, but the fact stands that the above likely happens and incidents like that are not encouraging anyone to become involved)
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#45
No I did understand it, I just don't agree with it. I'll try and clarify what I'm getting at since you seem to have a bee in your bonnet going on the number of posters you're diving on.

People like Willie Collum, Andrew Dallas, Kevin Clancy, Craig Thomson etc I would put my house on it that they have never actively played organisation football in their late teens/early twenties......which is why I believe there are elements of the game they don't fully appreciate having never played at any sort of level.
It's a forum mate, we are meant to discuss things, I'm not diving on anybody.

"I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football" is nonsense, that's what I am calling nonsense and what I am presuming the other guy was calling nonsense, but you carry on changing things to suit your argument.
 
#46
It's a forum mate, we are meant to discuss things, I'm not diving on anybody.

"I have always thought that anyone who referees football has never really played football" is nonsense, that's what I am calling nonsense and what I am presuming the other guy was calling nonsense, but you carry on changing things to suit your argument.
That's not the point of the thread. By the amount of abuse officials take it seems that it is deemed 'normal' to abuse and threaten which is hardly going to attract people to do the job.

For example, if you personally get into officiating but haven't played at any level does the fat parent hungover from the night before hurling abuse at your every decision know better because he played in Saturday morning football?

(I appreciate that example is extreme, but the fact stands that the above likely happens and incidents like that are not encouraging anyone to become involved)
I’m not changing anything, the posts I was referring to was refereeing standards and I put in my tuppence worth because I genuinely believe this is a factor and why folk lobby for ex-players to take up the positions if it wasn’t a logistical nightmare.

Nobody deserves that abuse, I see it most weeks with my boy and it’s never at any stage acceptable at that level.
 

347golfer

Active Member
#47
I chucked the amateurs this year cos my thick skin wore thin having to regularly deal with bawbags who think their Ronaldo or Mourinho.

Doing u13s - u19s now and loving it, I feel the coaches and parents have a better grasp of what behaviour is required now and its certainly changed days from when i started out in boys football 20 years ago when the parents really were unbearable.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#48
You are changing things though, you are saying that you meant something when you never said that initially. You said that any ref had likeley never played the game, absolute nonsense and I know this for a fact.
Being an ex-player does not guarantee you understand the rules of the game better though than someone else who studies the same laws of the game does it? Have you ever watched football on the tv and ex-pros discussing various decisions? Sure it might have benefits in helping you understand why a player commits a foul or what his intent was but does it really make that much a difference? Michael Stewart and bio-mechanics springs to mind for instance.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#49
I chucked the amateurs this year cos my thick skin wore thin having to regularly deal with bawbags who think their Ronaldo or Mourinho.

Doing u13s - u19s now and loving it, I feel the coaches and parents have a better grasp of what behaviour is required now and its certainly changed days from when i started out in boys football 20 years ago when the parents really were unbearable.
Without wanting to be appearing to 'jump on you' lol i'd be inclined to agree with you here, instances are few and far between from my own personal experience at this age group.
What I am saying is referees have to be held responsible for mistakes and shouldn't be beyond reproach.
 

50p Flute

Well-Known Member
#50
I’m not changing anything, the posts I was referring to was refereeing standards and I put in my tuppence worth because I genuinely believe this is a factor and why folk lobby for ex-players to take up the positions if it wasn’t a logistical nightmare.

Nobody deserves that abuse, I see it most weeks with my boy and it’s never at any stage acceptable at that level.
See my reply to you above, don't know why quote vanished.
 
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