I would be bringing back the Tennents Sixes to make up the shortfall in games
If we are going to have a more competitive league it needs to be more cutthroat and lucrative to be successful. Currently 3rd place are closer to bottom than top.
Reorganisation of Scottish Football
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If we are going to have a more competitive league it needs to be more cutthroat and lucrative to be successful. Currently 3rd place are closer to bottom than top.
"Giving a greater share of pooled resources to the 'smaller' sides".
What about sharing the gate money like they did years ago before competition was wiped out completely?
Id also share out euro money and prize money as this distorts things further.
Introduce an affordable and sustainable salary scale (not a salary cap). This would allow the "diddy" teams to keep their best players and build young exciting teams that could challenge for honours. Remember when George Burley's Hearts looked as if they could win the league until they sold off some players? This is what we need.
Real competition will make games less predictable and more exciting. More fans of the "diddy" teams will turn up. Atmosphere's will improve.
Celtic will struggle with their 60k capacity breezeblock dump while we'll be in a better position to maintain 40k plus STs at Ibrox.
These changes would require a decent lead in time and overheads would need to be covered until such times as the new order was established.
Nothing else will save our game.
I would be bringing back the Tennents Sixes to make up the shortfall in games
If we are going to have a more competitive league it needs to be more cutthroat and lucrative to be successful. Currently 3rd place are closer to bottom than top.
It all comes down to the way the money is distributed.
No need to merge clubs. Just share out the money more evenly.
Good post. However all may not be lost. If we voted with the others to change the way money is distributed it could leave Celtic high and dry with massive overheads and a stadium too big for their fairweather fans.
We on the other hand could prepare for a reduced income and with a much better and smaller stadium than them could adjust much easier. We could also be seen as the good guys saving Scottish football.
Introduce an affordable salary scale for all players depending on which division they play in and share the limited income more evenly.
Dont forget the league own the games and they could charge and collect monies like they do with cup competitions.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Probably the worst idea I've read for a while.
BulletProofBear
Well-Known Member
The prospect of league restructuring rears its ugly head every few years without fail, as some kind of panacea to the complete lack of basic skill most Scottish players have. It's moot.
Willem Bear
Well-Known Member
When the Premier League (as it was called ) was first introduced in season 1975-76, it was assumed that two visits per season by each of the OF would be enough to put sufficient money into the coffers to allow the “poorer teams” to survive, season on season.
It’s a GREAT idea, but falls flat when the home sides refuse to sell out and FILL their grounds with an away support that is locked out, on the wishes of the pettiness and jealousy of a pandered to home support.
These clowns are the architects of their own downfall, and ultimately, only the more enlightened will survive.
That's your opinion, but Scotland doesn't have enough people to support over a hundred clubs in a pyramid. That's just a fact of life.
If we put clubs into areas and fans bought in, you could get decent attendence at games, more chance of real competition, and more chance of more money in the game.
I get it breaks tradition, and need a different way of thinking.
Current model. 2 teams keep winning the league for the next 100 years....
Nakedbear
Well-Known Member
Giving up on competing in Europe effectively as well.
There is no money to be distributed and too many clubs to distribute to and no viable product to sell to make money.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Hearts didn't sell any players. George Burley getting sacked after 10 games caused the disharmony, although they still managed to finish 2nd and win the Scottish Cup.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
There's no need whatsoever to merge the likes of Kilmarnock and Ayr, Dundee and Dundee United. Further down the leagues is where we have too many clubs, but even then these supporters love their club every bit as much as anybody on here loves Rangers, so who are we to tell them to merge? They turn up year in year out knowing they will never see their team win a trophy and to watch a very low standard of football. They are proper supporters.
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
It'll never happen for one main reason. It's a terrible idea...
JorgAlbertz
Well-Known Member
You're confusing full time/part time with professional. The players signing contracts of service with clubs is what defines them as professional as well as meeting SPFL entry criteria. The quality of player and coaching will mean that some in the pyramid below the 42 SPFL clubs are better football teams. That doesn't necessarily mean it suits them to turn professional or that the lower clubs in the 42 should not be professional.
There is not a need for mergers of smaller clubs to increase fanbases. Doing so would lose some of those rivalries that are worth keeping - and in any event the main issue we have here is not low crowds. We are a nation of 5.5m after all - expecting 300000-400000 people to come out to top flight games every weekend is unrealistic and will never happen until clubs can be sustainable on higher revenue from other sources and ticket prices fall enough to draw higher crowds in.
If the sponsorship/TV revenue was ever sorted the smaller clubs could lower ticket prices, invest in better facilities, do away with plastic pitches, improve their stadia even visually, invest in better coaching and players and improve the product even further, eventually being competitive in European football outside of Celtic and Rangers.
League reconstruction alone can't solve those problems and neither can mergers guarantee success (although ICT clearly have done brilliantly over the past 2 decades).
The only way for the game to progress is for the idiots in charge who couldn't run a wax melt facebook business to be gone.
chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
Yeh i agree its at time now where i imagine if that happened it would be easy for the fans of those clubs to walk away from going to football due to the current cost of living crisis.
JorgAlbertz
Well-Known Member
SPFL revenue that goes to clubs should be split 50/50 between prize money and an annual payment.
The annual payment should be evenly split among all clubs. Prize money can then be scaled.
The only other way to boost crowds among the other teams would be to make them more likely to be involved in a title race or play better football. Reconstruction could help with that to a degree but only with expansion to 20-24 teams. The 38-46 games playing each other twice would initially lose them some blue/green pounds from the 2 visits per season but will also see the likes of Hearts/Aberdeen (no laughing at the back) be more competitive in the league not losing so many points to us per season.
With more matches to play weaker teams there is more opportunity for bigger clubs to blood youngsters with less pressure. The same applies to the mid-level clubs who would be relatively safe in the league, and can play a bit more open and expansive football.
Grumpy Old Git
Well-Known Member
My original suggestion didn’t involve merging clubs that was another poster.
Difficult to share money more evenly if 2 clubs attract 50% of attendees.
Add in the SPL self preservation policies doubtful that will happen.
Frankly I don’t expect anything to change.
Too many vested interests despite the actual product not being great.
Basically you have The Old Firm arguably could compete somewhere in the EPL and then you have the rest probably Div 1 in England.
You could argue I’m being harsh.
-ZED-
Well-Known Member
I still like the idea of a top division of 14. Split after 2 rounds of games into top 6, bottom 8. The top 6 play 36 games, 18 home/away with no ambiguity. The bottom 8 play 40 games, giving them some additional revenue for missing out on additional games vs us and them.
tottie beck
Well-Known Member
Too many top tier teams as it is, but you raise a good point about relegation/promotion from the league and the lower leagues.
I’d go two divisions of 16 teams, playing home and away with the teams that finish 31st and 32nd going into a play off with the top two lower league sides
I think this would improve the product as at present familiarity breeds contempt.
Before anyone says, “TV will demand 4 OF games” I know that, but it’s a case of the tail wagging the dog and those running the game have a responsibility to stand up to them.
I’d go two divisions of 16 teams, playing home and away with the teams that finish 31st and 32nd going into a play off with the top two lower league sides
I think this would improve the product as at present familiarity breeds contempt.
Before anyone says, “TV will demand 4 OF games” I know that, but it’s a case of the tail wagging the dog and those running the game have a responsibility to stand up to them.
linthousebear1981
Well-Known Member
Bringing more part time teams into the league is not helping.
Rejuvenation should've happened many times over in the last 25 years but Scottish Football loves our money and hates us equally at the same time. The self preservation society will not look at the long term gain for the game but the short term financial lose that would impact them instead. Their is no vision in Scottish Football and it appears there never will be. We have just signed a TV deal 3 years early and for actually less money than what we are on just now because of inflation and we are giving them more game.
In my opinion no division in the professional setup should have a part time team. We have something like 20 of them that are part time. That is nearly have of the teams in the professional divisions.
In my opinion I would get rid of something like 8 teams from the professional league. I would have two divisions, Prem 18 teams, Championship 16 teams. The rest can play in regional leagues and give them a pyramid to get into the Championship. All teams must go full time. No plastic pitches in the Prem.
It won't happen because none of these PT team's will vote for this because they won't want to go full time. None of the prem teams will vote for it because they won't get two visits from us and them.
Rejuvenation should've happened many times over in the last 25 years but Scottish Football loves our money and hates us equally at the same time. The self preservation society will not look at the long term gain for the game but the short term financial lose that would impact them instead. Their is no vision in Scottish Football and it appears there never will be. We have just signed a TV deal 3 years early and for actually less money than what we are on just now because of inflation and we are giving them more game.
In my opinion no division in the professional setup should have a part time team. We have something like 20 of them that are part time. That is nearly have of the teams in the professional divisions.
In my opinion I would get rid of something like 8 teams from the professional league. I would have two divisions, Prem 18 teams, Championship 16 teams. The rest can play in regional leagues and give them a pyramid to get into the Championship. All teams must go full time. No plastic pitches in the Prem.
It won't happen because none of these PT team's will vote for this because they won't want to go full time. None of the prem teams will vote for it because they won't get two visits from us and them.
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Five of the Premiership teams aren't giving us and them all the tickets for empty seats anyway, so why wouldn't they vote for it? The teams below give us one stand or less.
Hearts
Killie
Aberdeen
Motherwell
Hibs
I seem to remember them selling a player to Celtic. Memory tricks I guess.
The point is the league needs more than the OF to make it worth watching. Everybody knows this. The way to achieve it is to share the income more evenly AND introduce a sustainable and affordable pay scale (not a salary cap)
Noddy
Well-Known Member
We're on the same page. I'd love a more competitive league. The 80s was a brilliant decade for Scottish football, in a competitive sense.
Changes to the arseholes running Scottish Fitbaw required also.
Pollokbear
Well-Known Member
Unless we get shot of the paedo ridden club in the east end and all associated with it that ain’t happening. Too many of those clowns seem enthralled by whatever Kim-Jong Liewell orders.
bob1873
Well-Known Member
The simple point is the population of Scotland cannot support a professional league with the number of clubs we have now.
If (I know we never will) we had a US sports franchise system we'd be lucky to have any more than 12 teams. We have clubs refusing tickets to us (and the unwashed) so they can have an empty stand. There at most 4 or 5 semi decent stadia the rest need knocked down and rebuilt.
Scotland is a backwater and the league reflects that. It's sad reality.
If (I know we never will) we had a US sports franchise system we'd be lucky to have any more than 12 teams. We have clubs refusing tickets to us (and the unwashed) so they can have an empty stand. There at most 4 or 5 semi decent stadia the rest need knocked down and rebuilt.
Scotland is a backwater and the league reflects that. It's sad reality.
IbroxMainStand
Well-Known Member
If they did reorganise I think the best thing would be to change the premiership into a league of 10 and get rid of the split. I don't see increasing the number of teams as helping the quality as you would just end up with part time teams in the top league. There should also be strict rules on no artificial pitches in the top division.
RabSpackman
Well-Known Member
Being the big fish in a small pond of Junior football would seem to be a better scenario than being an also-ran in a league pyramid where you stand next to no chance of progressing upwards - and even if it did the chances are that your club would need to be restructured beyond recognition.
There’s a valid argument that Scotland has too many clubs in its league structure.. how you choose which clubs would be left to get on with it, and how many are disbanded or pushed into Junior or Regional status is an incredibly delicate subject.
There’s a valid argument that Scotland has too many clubs in its league structure.. how you choose which clubs would be left to get on with it, and how many are disbanded or pushed into Junior or Regional status is an incredibly delicate subject.
There are a number of different ideas being floated here. All with merit, to a greater or lesser degree.
What is obviously agreed upon is that Scottish football is in desperate need for reform whether or not, in the short term, it impinges upon our club and, in the case of shareholders, our pocket.
Now I am not privy to the facts and figures that the authorities hold but If the standard of football is to be improved then the standard of coaching, at the very lowest levels, must be improved. I would therefore start with a national programme of encouraging infant and primary school teachers to obtain coaching badges with free instruction classes and also perhaps, with perks, expenses, or small retainers. By doing this we would be identifying, helping, and training the stars of the future.
A similar programme should be introduced for secondary schools.
When it comes to the professional game I believe that any profits should be diverted into improving the standards of the grounds so that at every stage of a clubs rise through the ranks the facilities for both spectators and players are improved and that they are helped by the authorities to attain them.
At the apex it is unhealthy with two clubs dominating. Other clubs must have a chance of competing for titles. Starting with an assumed handicap of 12 points from losing matches at Ibrox & Piggery there chances of success are slim. With a larger league this would be reduced to only 6 points.
What is obviously agreed upon is that Scottish football is in desperate need for reform whether or not, in the short term, it impinges upon our club and, in the case of shareholders, our pocket.
Now I am not privy to the facts and figures that the authorities hold but If the standard of football is to be improved then the standard of coaching, at the very lowest levels, must be improved. I would therefore start with a national programme of encouraging infant and primary school teachers to obtain coaching badges with free instruction classes and also perhaps, with perks, expenses, or small retainers. By doing this we would be identifying, helping, and training the stars of the future.
A similar programme should be introduced for secondary schools.
When it comes to the professional game I believe that any profits should be diverted into improving the standards of the grounds so that at every stage of a clubs rise through the ranks the facilities for both spectators and players are improved and that they are helped by the authorities to attain them.
At the apex it is unhealthy with two clubs dominating. Other clubs must have a chance of competing for titles. Starting with an assumed handicap of 12 points from losing matches at Ibrox & Piggery there chances of success are slim. With a larger league this would be reduced to only 6 points.
Frank Harper
Well-Known Member
Indeed but then you get the clowns from the other SPFL teams voting for the ludicrous Sky deal and keeping us in boring system for the next decade.
CrunchBear
Well-Known Member
Merging clubs is a non starter.
League 1 and 2 regionalised, larger championship. Bin the playoff which protects our second bottom team and let's have more rotation of teams coming in and out the top.
I would make it so teams not in Europe compete in the league cup. Would mean teams actually play for and win a trophy from time to time which would help bring fans in a bit for clubs who play for nothing every year.
We need to get fans back in stadiums. I would enforce minimum ticket pricing, set % for away fans and work with tv to make better kick of times for longer trips.
Some kind of revenue sharing has to come in to help clubs along. It stings but a more competitive league benefits us.
I think finally the tv deal. It has to come back under one company for every tournament and we have to really think about what we can offer. Yes the quality of the league is poor but there's a passion and an authenticity which definitely resonates with a certain kind of fan.
League 1 and 2 regionalised, larger championship. Bin the playoff which protects our second bottom team and let's have more rotation of teams coming in and out the top.
I would make it so teams not in Europe compete in the league cup. Would mean teams actually play for and win a trophy from time to time which would help bring fans in a bit for clubs who play for nothing every year.
We need to get fans back in stadiums. I would enforce minimum ticket pricing, set % for away fans and work with tv to make better kick of times for longer trips.
Some kind of revenue sharing has to come in to help clubs along. It stings but a more competitive league benefits us.
I think finally the tv deal. It has to come back under one company for every tournament and we have to really think about what we can offer. Yes the quality of the league is poor but there's a passion and an authenticity which definitely resonates with a certain kind of fan.
Grumpy Old Git
Well-Known Member
You see clubs in upper echelons of Scottish Football giving away a sizeable chunk of income to other clubs.
I don’t unless it comes to Rangers when it becomes sporting integrity.
Effin joke
foot1efreek
Well-Known Member
Totally disagree with this. For example take your own local junior team. Rangers are away and they’re at home. Would ye no jump along and support them?
I don't agree, the biggest revenue for Scottish football is people in the grounds. A competitive league would make that more interesting, it would be a better standard of football, and then more chance of better sponsorship.
Call then professional/unprofessional. But like you say, they are not full time footballers, so pretty irrelevant. Getting paid 300 quid a week doesn't make you a pro footballer in my eyes.
Need to think so much bigger and really change things.
Will never happen though
Fair enough, that's your opinion.
I think having the same two teams win the for next 100 years is a terrible idea.
Trying to build it as a product to generate money to me is a pretty good idea. Getting teams like queens park in the prem teams with no stadium, teams with 3 stand.. . that's what the pyramid can lead to.. it's tinpot
That's the mentality that will never change the game. Anyway. Fair enough
I'm not saying stop junior/amateur football, just try and build something elite at the top level with what we have
I agree. The biggest problem is lack of competition. Our top league is a joke. Fix that and there's a chance we could see fans of "diddy" clubs coming out in numbers. Of course it will probably have an adverse affect on us and the tims but they have a much bigger problem. Their stadium is too big and its built on the cheap. How are they going to maintain it with huge bills and diminishing crowds? We're in a much better place.
But still just a 2 horse race. No one outside the OF wants to watch that.
CL money isnt that significant in England and the other rich leagues but it totally distorts Scottish football. Only 2 teams can get the money. Us and them. How can the others compete with this? They cant.
We could always share it out. Help the "diddy" clubs get rid of plastic pitches and maybe allow them to keep their best players.
Cavin
Well-Known Member
Don't think any league setup fixes that, as mentioned above, only some sort of money distribution would do that, or/and dare I say it, some sort of NA style draft where the lowest finishing team gets the pick of the bunch of up and coming youngsters!
Scottish football is at a crossroads its 40 years yes 40 years since a club outwith Rangers and that mob has won the League that is a damning stat . The big 2 need to move away for the game to flourish , this will never happen because of the european spots that would be lost . The game needs a complete and utter re-vamp or more and more sponsors etc will pull out
Barryhopez
Well-Known Member
The merging of teams is a terrible idea.
Put it this way, as the CL grows would you want UEFA to say...'Scottish teams do littlle, amalgamate and represent Scotland overall?'
Of course not, so why should supporters of other (in the eyes of the big boys) smaller teams do this?
Noddy
Well-Known Member
What attitude is that? And how many clubs are you leaving us with if you're merging Ayr and Killie, Dundee and Dundee United etc etc?
King Richard Gough
Well-Known Member
We struggle as it is to compete in Europe, and your idea is give cash we don’t have away?
It’s socialist nonsense. Your idea essentially is a race to the bottom. It will be competitive because we’ll all be as bad as each other.
It would be like the Welsh or Irish leagues and thankfully will never happen.
Laudrup1
Well-Known Member
The main draw back is there's no jeopardy for teams in the middle ten.
I get the point that it might mean taking more risks on youth players etc..
However, there's nothing to push for (compared to a league like the EPL having so many European places) and you end up with an absolute ream of meaningless games where there's not even the excitement of them meaning anything and the product still isn't great.
papacrobertson
Well-Known Member
Some points to note.
Merging teams is a ridiculous idea and only Inverness Caledonian Thistle has been a success with this. I can't see any other clubs wanting this.
Darvel can be promoted and will probably be in League Two in the next 2-3 seasons.
Both League Two and the Lowland League need to open up more automatic promotion spots to allow the stronger part time teams to get promoted more easily. Eg Darvel could lose their play off again this year likely against Linlithgow Rose and still be in tier 6.
The B Teams that us, them and Hearts have in Lowland League are one of the reasons the strongest part time teams like Auchinleck Talbot, Pollok, Darvel, Clydebank, Linlithgow Rose etc are not at least in the Lowland League as could have 18 teams and no B teams plus the West of Scotland League only just joined the pyramid as COVID hit and no teams been promoted yet.
There are structures that can improve the lower divisions but 12 team format and split does an okay job for our league. 10 teams is too few. 14/16 teams we don't have enough games or another more complicated split - I can see 14 team maybe working... 18 teams is too many as then would be part time teams in the league that and quality would suffer and other teams wouldn't vote for only 2 games against Rangers & Celtic.
Merging teams is a ridiculous idea and only Inverness Caledonian Thistle has been a success with this. I can't see any other clubs wanting this.
Darvel can be promoted and will probably be in League Two in the next 2-3 seasons.
Both League Two and the Lowland League need to open up more automatic promotion spots to allow the stronger part time teams to get promoted more easily. Eg Darvel could lose their play off again this year likely against Linlithgow Rose and still be in tier 6.
The B Teams that us, them and Hearts have in Lowland League are one of the reasons the strongest part time teams like Auchinleck Talbot, Pollok, Darvel, Clydebank, Linlithgow Rose etc are not at least in the Lowland League as could have 18 teams and no B teams plus the West of Scotland League only just joined the pyramid as COVID hit and no teams been promoted yet.
There are structures that can improve the lower divisions but 12 team format and split does an okay job for our league. 10 teams is too few. 14/16 teams we don't have enough games or another more complicated split - I can see 14 team maybe working... 18 teams is too many as then would be part time teams in the league that and quality would suffer and other teams wouldn't vote for only 2 games against Rangers & Celtic.
