Right, where we are re manager

Earl of Leven

Earl of Leven

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Okay, distilled from the anger, drink (!), and lashings of excellent common sense posts:

Reasons to change -
He is a bottle merchant in 'must win games'; his players don't seem willing to give 100% for him - the 'team of fighters' was nowhere to be seen yesterday; we all know the climb back will be long and no-one seriously expected us to have same manager, or even just 1 or 2 managers; he has spunked half our budget on two Mexican duds; he actually played Windass as #10 yesterday - criminal offence let alone a footballing one; his 'tactics' are obscure and look very like long ball punts up the park; we can expect better - and do - than "Oh we're in the pack for 3rd, how exciting"; tough fixtures ahead and not many 'easy points' now.

Reasons to be cautious -
Board are 100% the good guys but clearly have no serious money to invest or ideas to leverage any; where we want to be is at the moment impossible to reach based on current budgets - could Pep win the league?; it will cost at least £3M to swap him for McInnes - we don't have it; can a new manager really make these guys lean, fit, well drilled winners?; what about the Mexican flops - we will NEVER get £4m back for them...can we really switch managers and leave them adrift?; maybe he does need time to make his systems work.

However....I understand that a lot of the bottom section is defeatist. A lot of the reasons to stick and not twist are based on caution and a lowering of standards. I heard it yesterday on way back to car...lots of groups of pals arguing and every group had at least one: "Ach we're pish now...big support but not a big team...2nd or 3rd is where we are." I worry that becomes a majority view...we downsize mentally as well as materially. I would argue we need to invoke the spirit of the red and black campaign...but that's another thread.
 
The bottom line is that the team under the current manager cannot and have not laid down any markers to suggest that we are moving forward.

Every single big game, bar one freak 8 minute or so period resulting in a 3-0 win at Shittodrie, his team have shat the bed in every sense be that physically, mentally or result.
 
We are going nowhere under Pedro it’s time for him to go.


He came with no real record of winning and he’s only managed in shitty leagues and people thought yup that’s the man to take us forward.


Worrying very worrying indeed.
 
If we ever want to win things again we need shot of Pedro - he cant cut it tactically against better teams and in big games

We need the opposite, frankly, and the Board need to find a way to deliver it
 
I am also interested in the opinions about psychology...the people defending him and how defeatist it can come across. Are we scared now to 'get even worse'?
 
id stick with Pedro until the end of the season. Its a pity he cant stick on a pair of football boots as he has more heart and more guts than some of the players who need to take responsibility.

this is not an excuse but Alves was right as well with his comments about Refs and what our players have to put up with. Other teams don't play football against us they play "lets assault and try and injure a Rangers player", meaning our players cannot concentrate/focus on the game plan set out for them by the manager as they are also looking out for some nutcase coming in to injure them.

you can bet your life than no Well player will ever play against the sheep or the scum the way they do against us and that actually goes for the majority of teams . They set out to attack our players and put them out the game and thats their main focus, its not to play football.
 
i just dont know what other people see in him, the constant 'give him time, he'll turn it around' - why do you think this what is it you see from the team that suggests this?
 
mendes said:
id stick with Pedro until the end of the season. Its a pity he cant stick on a pair of football boots as he has more heart and more guts than some of the players who need to take responsibility.

this is not an excuse but Alves was right as well with his comments about Refs and what our players have to put up with. Other teams don't play football against us they play "lets assault and try and injure a Rangers player", meaning our players cannot concentrate/focus on the game plan set out for them by the manager as they are also looking out for some nutcase coming in to injure them.

you can bet your life than no Well player will ever play against the sheep or the scum the way they do against us and that actually goes for the majority of teams . They set out to attack our players and put them out the game and thats their main focus, its not to play football.
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You think the support will stomach another 3/4 pastings off the tims and maybe once or twice from the sheep before the axe falls?

I would doubt that he will get the season, at this rate he wont see Halloween.
 
mendes

One huge theme yesterday after game was "At least filth won't pump us in the final" - is that really how bad it is? What manager can stay of support are roughly 80/20 convinced scum will thrash us EVERY time we play them?
 
Sutton_Blows_goats said:
i just dont know what other people see in him, the constant 'give him time, he'll turn it around' - why do you think this what is it you see from the team that suggests this?
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Nobody can see into the future. Pedro must be given a fair crack of the whip. That means judging his performance over the full season. He may or may not turn it round. At least we will know for certain.
If a new manager is necessary then we must plan and prepare carefully. Time to do it right is critical. Getting it wrong again is unthinkable.
 
He HAS to get longer. This is the toughest period of our history that ANY manager has had to face. We are coming from a massive disadvantage and rebuilding. EVERY team and enemy are gunning for us. It's a tough job right now. It's too soon to make the change.
 
Sutton_Blows_goats said:
i just dont know what other people see in him, the constant 'give him time, he'll turn it around' - why do you think this what is it you see from the team that suggests this?
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Personally, when we’ve played well, I’ve been impressed with the team. If, and I accept it’s a massive if, he can gain consistency with that, then I believe we’ll be a good team. I’d rather give Pedro a bit longer to try and achieve that, than rip it all up again and bring in someone like McLeish.
 
The decision to stick or twist has to be done before January. No point changing managers after the window closes or we get a repeat of last seasons shambles.

It should be an easy decision if the results from this next run of games are poor.
 
Up until now I've been willing to give him time, yesterday ended that.

Look at his record before us, it's exactly what we are seeing play out - he's not a winner, his teams have always had a win 1-2 games, draw or lose, win a game record.

He was a risk and it isn't paying off - why delay the inevitable?
 
Sutton_Blows_goats said:
i just dont know what other people see in him, the constant 'give him time, he'll turn it around' - why do you think this what is it you see from the team that suggests this?
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I pointed this out many times mate. There is a relentless cycle among some supporters that goes along the lines of:

- It's only three games into the season
- It's a new squad, needs time to bed in
- It's only eight games into the season
- It's only the league cup
- It's only ten games in, he needs til Christmas
- It's only Christmas, he needs to strengthen in January and see how he does
- The January signings need time to bed in
- It's only February FFS
- There's still 10 games to go...
- He needs the summer to get his own players in and get rid of the remaining dross...
- FFS! You lot wanted him to fail!!!

I'm all for sensible levels of patience, but there has to be real evidence that time is the answer and we're not simply prolonging the agony or delaying the inevitable.

Ultimately the progress this season, given the time and money he's been given is not enough and I don't see anything that indicates this team has it in it to make the leap forward we need to. If the new signings were looking the part and it was only the last of the Warburton era who were bogging us down, I'd maybe have more patience. However, the likes of Cardosos, Pena, Alves, Herrera, Dorrans have not set the heather alight and some are flat-out dire if we're being truly honest.

I think if the club has money to invest, then it needs to be used to get someone with some real managerial clout in. I don't know who, but I just can't see how giving Pedro more money to sign more players of the calibre he's brought in so far is going to help based on his time here.
 
I believe yesterday was the point of no return.have the same feeling as i had when we lost 4-1 to hearts under Warburton.
 
IF we are to get rid, I'm honestly not 100% sure about it right now but if we do we have to push the boat out and get a manager same level as Brenda or better if we want to do it right.

Before you ask I don't have names at the top of my head, however we cannot accept or settle for mediocrity.
 
He is a dead man walking, it’s just when not not if in my view.

I understand the argument “can we afford to sack him?” I would counter that though with can we afford not to? To have failed every big test thus far, to have not won three games in a row by this point, and to have been backed the way he was in the summer to have this little progress isn’t good enough.

In the January window can we actually afford to back him again?

I said yesterday the next appointment is absolutely key and somehow the board need to push the boat out. No more projects, no more unknowns, the manager has to be the biggest investment the club make.
 
There is a wider context than just Pedro, even putting aside what you think of the boards performance.

He has had 1 transfer window to pretty much replace a team. He tried to put a spine in which looks like he had, but Jack and Dorrans just aren't cutting it for me. Fod, Alves, Freddo but no midfield general running the game.

Then we have the director of football role. This is meant to bring consistency in the event of changing manager. He's not been here for a transfer window yet. I've no idea if he's any good for us, what he brings or even what he does. So we bring in a new manager who has to work in this set up under a director of football. Who do we get? How long will we give them? 1 transfer window again?

We have improved, we should be better though. I'd give Pedro until after new year, possibly until March. If it's still the same way then we look to get someone in for new season and........ we go again.........
 
He needs to go.

The rationale after the Progres humiliation from many was lets see how he gets on first three games of the season.

The results was 4 points from 9.

Give him until the end of October then? Cant manage 3 wins on the trot and we are 6 points behind Aberdeen and Celtic and closer to 4th than 2nd.

This is forgetting the debacle that was March - May.

Why stumble along from calamity to calamity? If King and the board are serious about returning Rangers to the top of Scottish Football then they need to hold their hands up here, admit the experiment was wrong and change things.
 
We tried to be different with PC. Reinvent the wheel by signing him as manager. He's been a failure and we tried to give him every opportunity to get success. His recruitment of players has been terrible. Dorrans has fleeted in and out of games.
Jack has been the standout player imo.
This is HIS team. Nobody else's.
I want him gone. We are treading water and the season on current form is over before Halloween.
There are posters on here who don't want to see him gone however they must be in the minority now.
I say we go back in time and get an old school manager.
 
Earl of Leven said:
The football is not even easy to watch - it is basically a long ball variant.

This is okay when you win but induces anger when results are poor.
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I think the football on show is awful. For the first couple of months we all wondered what style of play Pedro was trying to implement.

Now it's clear: Back to front or wide right for an early ball into the box. However our main striker is 5 feet 9.

It's tragi-comic.
 
rangersno.1 said:
He came with no real record of winning and he’s only managed in shitty leagues and people thought yup that’s the man to take us forward..
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Have to flag this one up, as it's utter crap. Mexican league, in which Pedro won the title with an unfancied club, is incomparably better than SPFL.
 
It pains me to say it but we're simply going around in circles by sticking with him.

His inability to win when it really counts is now at the joke stage. Yesterday wasn't surprising either.

Soon as that first went in the heads dropped and the players and management had their excuses for yesterday ready made. We were an indisciplined mess by the end.

"Aye but...aye but" Aye but nothing. He's shown nothing to suggest he can win when it matters.
 
barcode said:
He HAS to get longer. This is the toughest period of our history that ANY manager has had to face. We are coming from a massive disadvantage and rebuilding. EVERY team and enemy are gunning for us. It's a tough job right now. It's too soon to make the change.
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I'm with you on this mate
 
I actually think some of his signings are decent and another manager with a better vision and tactics could get more out of them. So all is not lost by sacking him.
 
SDF said:
It pains me to say it but we're simply going around in circles by sticking with him.

His inability to win when it really counts is now at the joke stage. Yesterday wasn't surprising either.

Soon as that first went in the heads dropped and the players and management had their excuses for yesterday ready made. We were an indisciplined mess by the end.

"Aye but...aye but" Aye but nothing. He's shown nothing to suggest he can win when it matters.
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It was the polar opposite of a 'team of fighters' and first goal did seem to be the winner....
 
I like Pedro but when I watch his interviews I find it difficult to understand what he is talking about.
This for me could be a major issue, communications with the players (doesn't explain the Spanish/Portuguese ones!).

I think he is a very likeable guy but talks a great game without really saying anything.

We took a gamble on him at a time when we should have played safe and got an experienced and proven manager in, we can all see it isn't working but may have to live with it till the end of the season as getting a replacement will be very difficult during a season.
 
We are being dragged down to his level

When you are at the stage everything is exaplined away as an excuse it's over

In a few months time once the emotional attatchment is removed - like McCoists tenure people will look back on this and wonder what we were thinking

There is no unearthed potential in Pedro - it's a nonsense

Pena and Herrera are Black and Kyle on steroids in terms of cost, damage and negligence


Leave us in a better place than when he arrived - i would really question that
 
scott_gers said:
I like Pedro but when I watch his interviews I find it difficult to understand what he is talking about.
This for me could be a major issue, communications with the players (doesn't explain the Spanish/Portuguese ones!).

I think he is a very likeable guy but talks a great game without really saying anything.

We took a gamble on him at a time when we should have played safe and got an experienced and proven manager in, we can all see it isn't working but may have to live with it till the end of the season as getting a replacement will be very difficult during a season.
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Board maybe wanted wanted to 'short cut' the road back by going left field...and now is time to admit it didn't work. Nothing wrong with the idea on paper but it hasn't worked.
 
barcode said:
He HAS to get longer. This is the toughest period of our history that ANY manager has had to face. We are coming from a massive disadvantage and rebuilding. EVERY team and enemy are gunning for us. It's a tough job right now. It's too soon to make the change.
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I am with you on this.

We could sack Pedro bring in the likes of McInness (please no)

He underperforms we hound him out get someone else in and repeat.

We need a bit of stability at Rangers not continual upheaval.

FFS we could have more managers in five or six years than we have had in our history.
 
I ,m still in the give Pedro time side
but he’s goinny have to get two good wins Wednesday and Saturday or he’s toast imo
 
Im completely torn on this.
A) I am sick of his soundbites and bad results
but
B) we have to stick with a manager at some point, we cant become one of those basket cases who change staff every window.

Also
C) can we afford a change? ( I hope the board find deep pockets)
 
I think the squad is decent, a good manager could run the mentally challengeds close if he gets this squad playing well.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Board maybe wanted wanted to 'short cut' the road back by going left field...and now is time to admit it didn't work. Nothing wrong with the idea on paper but it hasn't worked.
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Interesting in his post match interview yesterday he defended the players and took all the blame himself.
Perdro looks down, dejected and fed up - missing the sunshine and stress free life too much.
 
Earl of Leven said:
I am also interested in the opinions about psychology...the people defending him and how defeatist it can come across. Are we scared now to 'get even worse'?
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Some will defend anything mate. It not exactly an indication that there is well thought out counter reason on here. McCoist was getting defended right up until and even after his pathetic resignation. Warburton was getting defended even after he had fucked off and done us over. People defended signing Simonsen for a second time ffs.

I fear we're now at the stage for Pedro where it is only those types who are still claiming he should stay or will come good.

We're in a horrid position now. A terrible manager on a 3 year deal and he's been given about £8million which he has absolutely wasted. We'd not got a fraction of that back on those players and any new manager will not get more out of them.
 
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