Discussion in 'The Bear Pit' started by MTP, Dec 6, 2018 at 12:20 AM.
This. We need better.
We'll agree to differ.
Jack is to slow he can’t open his body up and make thing sharper. U look at the like of mcgregor with the tims. Opens his body up knows where the ball is going before he has it. Jack gets it two touches to stop it another two touches for the sherhell off it and then passes to the two centre halfs or goalie. when he gets the ball he needs to be on the forward foot driving us into the game. Personally hes not what we are needing imo.
A lot of people have a blindspot when it comes to Jack.
His only attribute is breaking up play & he isn't even that good at that. In any case doing only that, is ok when we are on the backfoot in Europe etc.
Where we are dominating, he should be dropping in & always be available for the ball. When he gets the ball, he should be playing quick passes forward either out to the wingers or to the next advanced midfielder. Effectively acting as a base for attacks.
Instead he gets the ball, takes ages to pass & then only passes back or sideways to the defence.
As such, he is only doing half his role & isn't even particularly good at that either.
If we want to win anything, he should be a squad player at best.
As if he's playing in hardening cement.
His level is an Aberdeen etc.
In every big game he's played down the years he's been bodied or doesn't show up. That's a mentality issue as well as lack of ability
He's ineffective when we are supposed to be attacking.
Needs dropped for a long time. If Gerrard was looking for an excuse to get Rossiter finally in, this is it
Jack's role is to sit and break up play which he can do very well, its the two next to him that need replaced and with hopefully better quality in Jan/summer. I know Gerrard says we wont be doing much in Jan but I think we need to improve massively in some areas.
Ian Black mark II
I don't see why we should need two defensive midfielders in a home game against a mid table spl side.
I was pretty critical of jack last night and on the ball I stand by the view that he was woeful.
More dissatisfied this morning that we set up in midfield like we did and the wider team selection in general .
Responsibility for that result lies with gerrard for me.
Not jack, flannagan or Middleton etc.
I thought his absolute refusal to drive forward last night was basically cowardice or at the very least a lack of belief in his ability. Either way, it's not acceptable for where we want to go.
All he did last night was get the ball, slow the play down and pass the ball sideways or backwards. Fine if you're taking the sting out of the game but no use whatsoever when you're 0-1 down and chasing the game.
He's a good player. His reading of the game when defending his excellent but his passing is sloppy beyond belief at times and he offers us nothing in games like last night when we have the majority of the ball and should be on the front foot.
I would prefer McCrorie or Rossitor in that position , Jack doesn’t drive on rarely plays a pass with any menace it’s all safe sideways stuff which is ok away from home in Europe but not when we are playing against shite like last night.
100 percent agree with this. He brings value to the squad. Just not to be relied upon as a creative force.
Crazy that some people think that Jack shouldn't be criticised tonight. He's never played a pass that wasn't risk free and takes too long to do it sometimes!
Tonight we constantly started moves off with him which turned out pointless as he just goes for the safe option every time.
Surprised Jack is getting a pounding when Ejaria and Coulibaly were so poor. Ejaria consistently goes missing and plays more backwards balls and he's meant to be the more attacking role.
Is this an attempt to make a scapegoat of Jack after a poor overall team performance? I don't think he was worst against Aberdeen. Did some people think he was the reincarnated pirlo?
I think the problem is a both lack of movement and lack of creativity in midfield. After four or five passes between full backs and centre backs, we end up launching it or making a move up the wing which invariably ends in hopeful crosses which are blocked or easily cleared. In the middle we rarely work triangles or give and goes and this is because of lack of movement and lack of bravery/technique on the ball. Thing is no one seems to want to drive through the middle and draw out players or even take a man on. As a result we’re forced out wide and since we don’t have much aerial power we can’t exploit this.
I think last season, we had a little patch where McCrorie came in and played really well, and it allowed Jack to play a bit more football.
Jack is the only midfielder we have who can consistently find a man with a pass. He also does 80-90% of the stuff he does right.
I wouldn't go as far as to give him pass marks, but at least he's looking and trying to do the right things all the time. Coulibaly and Ejaria looked clueless at times.
Jack can play sitting, or he can play as a controlling type of midfielder. He can also play good forward passes if they are on. He won't beat players, and he can't shoot at all.
Those expecting things like that from him are always going to be disappointed.
We had many problems last night, but Ryan Jack was not close to being one of the main ones.
I'd still have him in the team every week.
No, but I think he like Ejaria and Coulibaly needs to bring more to the table.
Jack CAN play the ball forward. Anyone saying otherwise has a staunch defence of him.
Anyone that thinks it's his job just to lay the ball to McAuley or Goldson to play the ball up is deluded. It's Embarrassing that a top level midfielder either isn't trusted or isn't good enough to play the ball forward ahead of two centre backs.
His role may be to recycle the ball and break up play. But certainly not that manner. And if you think he gets pass marks, he can stay in that midfield for 500 games and never break a sweat.
Ryan Jack is never going to be our creative force, that isn't his role in the team expecting that from him games is a bit like expecting Goldon to move up front and start pinging in overhead kicks.
Ejaria, Coulibaly and Candieas are the guys who are supposed to be making things happen.
Are you on drugs ?
Jack was berating the lack of movement on numerous ocassions. It was the lack of movement that forced us square and back. That isn't Jack's fault. Where else is the ball meant to go? This in turn led to our ever impatient crowd going tonto about retaining posession, which became a vicious circle in the pattwrn of the game.
Why do we play 2 midfielders who “break up play” at home to teams who are happy to sit in?
And there we have it.
Comparing Jack to that little c.unt.
I didn’t think Jack was great tonight but that’s because everyone around him was crap.
A lack of any other type of midfielder?
Ryan Jack was the only outfield player who did what he was deployed to do i.e. play as a defensive midfielder. His job was to break things up and give the ball to those who are supposed to be our `creative` players, but that, of course, is where the plan fell apart. Coulibaly and Ejaria just aren`t good enough, yet the manager continues to shoehorn them into the side. We have better kids than them on our books and they are the ones we should be looking to develop.
For a holding midfielder who’s meant to keep the possession ticking over he doesny half give the ball away a lot ! He was extremely poor last night
We needed more energy, movement and someone willing to commit players ahead of him.
Unfortunately there wasn’t and this job was left with McAuley and Goldson, as they were being left on it and it’s obviously not their game.
Lewis Ferguson was basically man marking Jack when they had 11 men, I’d have hoped the against 10 we’d have found a way to move he ball quicker. wed have been better putting Halliday on for Flanagan and playing as normal for 10/15 after half time to try and break them down imo.
I still thought he was better than Ejaria who’s meant to be giving us that spark. I think I read somewhere that he has one assist and one goal which for someone in that position isn’t good enough
Ryan Jack is a sitting/holding midfielder, his job is basically a facilitator. He gets on the ball and gives it to the players there to create. He protects our back four.
The glaring lack of creativity against teams who sit in cannot and should not be laid at Jack's door.
Last night we had two full-backs who created nothing going forward, two wide-men who couldn't beat a carpet and two midfielders who didn't have a single positive effect on the 90mins.
Ryan Jack,along with McGregor and the two centre-backs largely did what he is there to do. If we're looking to aportion blame then the six I've mentioned plus Morelos are where that blame should be aportioned.
The selection of Flanagan in particular, in a game where we knew we'd have so much of the ball was baffling.
Jack was FAR from the biggest problem last night.
I actually think he was one of the only players anywhere near getting pass marks tbh.
Ryan Jack isn’t good enough for where we want to be
Ryan Jack is not in the side to create.
That people still can't grasp this after two seasons beggars belief.
On the contrary, we'll need a Ryan Jack if we want to get to where we want to be.
In terms of lack of movement and Ryan jack specifically.
On the ball, he plays looking at his feet. So pretty much any moves up top is pointless. You can't pass the ball any sort of distance looking constantly at your feet.
He's not a quarterback, he's a ball carrier.
He was terrible tonight, a real cowards performance from him and the rest of the midfield.
Mccrorie is miles ahead. It’s mental he’s not getting a game.
If where we want to be is battling it out with the likes of Killie, Aberdeen & Hearts for 2nd place then you're correct.
If we actually want to be winning trophies again then we'll need significantly better than Ryan Jack.
Absolutely no movement in front of him, at points i am in the broomie rear, there was about 6 players spread in front on him in a static position, pathetic nonsense!! He had no movement in front of him whatsoever
Put in effort and actually tried to keep
Hold of the ball. More than most of his team mates
For me Ryan Jack should never really play at Ibrox. European away type player. When you’re looking to go and attack teams and have players who can generate attack’s from ball winning, IMO he doesn’t come into that bracket. Not saying he’s a bad player but slows the game down to much for me and is always looking for a side pass.
Simply doesn't do enough imo.
He was far better than the 2 rockets next to him. Pissing against the wind all night.
Jack is a squad player at best, he usually gives 100% and does not hide, unlike Ejaria and Coulibaly,
but he is limited in talent and combined with Ejaria and Coulibaly will not be part of a title winning midfield.
The only solution to this is better quality players.
That requires money- a significant amount of it. there is no way around this!
What you said is his job he didn’t do that either.
He gets on the ball , takes an eternity to move and makes sideways passes to either side. He takes no responsibility and was allowing CHs to make aimless punts up the park.
When he did try to make any passes they are always behind players slowing the game down further.
In games like this when teams defend he is useless. He has no pace or urgency or vision and when we get caught on the counter he is nowhere near the defence to help.
Everyone last night was rotten no doubt about this but I didn’t see much difference from Jacks performance from all our losses at home last season.
Our midfielders are mostly apart from Arfield one dimensional or too inexperienced and it is a mistake for both Jack and Coulibaly to play. I think Coulibaly at the start of the season offered far more than Jack has ever done but both are pretty poor just now.
We’ll need a better Ryan Jack then...
But they're not so as a CM he should take responsibility and try and make things happen, tell the other two to cover him if they want to hide, no CM regardless of their role should shirk responsibility when a team like us are creating so little. Put it this way, it doesn't matter who in the mhanky mhob played in that position, if the tempo is too slow and they aren't creating their holding midfielders would take responsibility.
Thats just not the way it works.
Jack isn’t creative but he is good at his job. If the midfielders aren’t creative enough its down to Gerrard to sort that out, not for Jack to go out of position and start doing things he isn’t great at.
That's partly true but it his part of his job to create, a holding midfielder should be a key part of setting a tempo and driving your team, just look at your man that's your DP, Busquets or anyone else in that position, they'll collect the ball from defenders (which Jack rarely did last night, hence why Goldson and McAuley had so much of the ball) and if they collect the ball and there is not a great pass forward on, move it sideways and drive into space with one-two's, commit players, try and make something happen rather than just go, "that's not my job" like you're the paint guy from Still Game.
The two loan players in midfield were absolutely rotten last night i would drop both of them for Dundee Game. The only players from last night that got pass marks were McGregor and Jack the rest didn't perform. Morelos and Lafferty had a competition too see who would be sent off first.
He's not deployed to be the creative midfielder it seems that some expect. There was a wall of red shirts last night and he was forced to play the ball from side to side or backwards, and he'll rarely offer that 'one two' and outfox a defence or play that killer pass.
I think people need ot appreciate that each player has a role in the team and some are better at doing things than others.