Discussion in 'The Bear Pit' started by MTP, Dec 6, 2018 at 12:20 AM.
Jack wasn’t at his best last night but the lack of movement around him is so frustrating.
Jack did nothing the whole match. He took no responsibility and gave a cowardly performance.
This match was typical of him when we struggle to break down a defensive team, he offers nothing.
Even this mythical nonsense that he breaks down play and he is “neat” is just ridiculous.
Wtf does neat mean? Sideways 5 yard passes?
I want a defensive mid to be able to win the ball, retain possession when on the ball and to look to make passes that can get us into attack quickly when needed. He should be able to control the pace of the game and allow the more expressive players and wide players to do their job.
The problem is I can make these criticisms of our whole team apart from shagger. They all were a disgrace last night and shat in the lap of the manager and the fans.
They destroyed all the supports confidence and trust in the team last night and now we are worried not just about Dundee this weekend but even more so with Hibs and Celtic games coming where they will raise their games.
All of our players as stated were rotten the problem with Jack is I don’t see him playing much better than he did last night. Arfield is the only quality midfielder we have and the rest have to step up and get results until we can do something in January.
I feel like Gerrard is trying to emulate Benitez’ tactics from when he was successful with Liverpool.
Rafa used two holding mids, one destroyer (Mascherano) and one ball player (Xabi Alonso). This gave Gerrard freedom to go forward.
The only problem is this works in Europe and against top EPL sides but it’s unnecessary in Scotland. You need a different approach to break down sides who play backs to the wall.
Also, Jack isn’t good enough as a destroyer, not does he have the passing range to play the deep playmaker. So what does he actually bring? Not to mention the insanity of playing Coulibaly in a Xabi Alonso type role.
The whole midfield needs ripped up and started again.
As many have stated above, Jack should never be judged on his ability to affect the game in an offensive sense, that's not what his role is. If we have a properly balanced midfield, Jack is capable of being an integral part of that midfield. The problem last night, and more broadly this season, is that he has 2 people infront of him who are not of the required standard for a title challenging Rangers side. A proper box to box player and a quality No.10 recruited in Jan will see Jack show his true value.
So why didn’t he do it?
Also why is that position needed in the team when they have their whole team back defending.
We need midfielders to run at them to create space and movement for wide players and attackers. His distribution of the ball was behind our wide players or a crab like movement to either side and give the ball for the CH to aimlessly punt it forward for a 5ft 8 striker.
He's alright. But he isn't a play maker and has zero passing range...not his job though.
Bog standard spl level player.
His long term future should be elsewhere, cos it certainly won't happen here.
He might be okay with better around him....say Davis and Arfield come January.
His job as far as I can see is to hold the ball, keep it, and make a pass to the forward midfielders or wingers, he did that.
He isn't a playmaker, he's a retainer, and calmer in the midfield. I'd like him to do more, but I think he had little work with or feed off of.
I think he's great at that, but coulibally and Ejaria were well off last night, candieas and tav tried down the right, nothing doing, Middleton had flanagan behind him who offers very little to nothing in attack, Middletons a talented wee boy who lacked confidence taking folks on last night I think.
So id say Jack was not the problem.
Even McGregor having to scream at goldson and McCauley to get the ball forward tells us there was something wrong with the mentality last night.
I also think the delivery to morelos was very poor, he needs more than 2 or 3 chances to score, he was given very little, so when the chances dont come his desperation to score increases, so he gets involved, looks to steal the ball, his first foul was pointless leading to a yellow, and the second was just immature, he will grow up with age, he doesn't realise just how unnecessary it is, until he does we'll have more of the same.
Shame, I thought he was doing better.
If Jack as a highly paid professional player cannot play a decent forward pass then we're doing something badly wrong.
Nobody expects him to beat two and three men. But the idea that he cannot get the ball 25 yards from our goal and drive us 25/30 yards further up the pitch is ludicrous IMO.
He constantly shirked responsibility last night. It simply wasn't good enough. Every pass went sideways or backwards.
I'm trying to be positive these days Sir Dunc!!!
Inside I'm screaming "How can you not use your left foot?!?! How can a 20 yard pass be like building a space rocket?!"
It's all about balance friend.
Even against teams that come to sit in you still need to keep the back door shut.
The players tasked with creating the play last night failed, not Ryan Jack.
If there's little or no movement ahead of him and nobody in space who's he meant to pass to?
A point that seems beyond 99% of posters last night and this morning.
Grezda was in space several times last night and we never utilised him.
Your spot on Dunc.
Even his so called good points breaking up play and being “neat””, whatever the %^*& that means?, I don’t think he does that either.
As you say every pass is behind players.
Everyone was shit last night but at some point this season most of them have played well, I can’t say that for Jack.
What he is supposed to do he doesn’t do that either and he doesn’t have the game to do what you are asking.
Arfield badly needs 2 quality mids next to him.
Personally don’t think he’s as good as made out on here. Never drives forward or plays a forward pass. Is slow on the ball.
Offersnothing im afraid and if we want to win titles we need better than him in midfield
What he offers is what was missing under Warburton - a proper defensive midfielder who reads the game, snuffing out a lot of opposition moves from his positioning alone - Much like Hemdani, who for a long time was subject to similar threads because for some reason, we've got plenty who want a defensive midfielder to be making last ditch tackles. If they're doing that, then they're failing to do their job by not reading the game.
It's the Colubially, Flanagn and Candieas bits that cause us deeper issues I feel.
Coulibally is supposed to be the guy with a pass
Flanagan should offer better width, an over lapping run, just some form of shape and a decent entry into midfield
Candieas needs to be able to come inside and play as a 10 and take the ball with his back to goal rather than simply playing right.
We should look to solve all 3 issues then you wouldn't notice the holding midfielder and question why said player isn't creating.
The two centre half’s came forward with the ball far more than Jack last night.
Even when they passed to him in space, he passed it back to them.
Not good enough. I also think either Coulibaly should be playing there as he at least moves forward with the ball
Our forward movement last night was very poor and Arfield was badly missed.
We lacked any real edge and were far too methodical in our build up play,with our attacking midfielders and forwards sometimes not offering themselves as a target.
Last night wasn't down to Ryan Jack alone , we had failures all over the park and the result is a major warning to us about what can go wrong when we dont play at 100%.
SG needs to sort this out.
Personally I think Alfredo needs a good slap to get him to stop playing like a petulent wee boy.
How many times do we need to be faced with playing with 10 men because of Alfredos' immaturity and stupidity.
It's not f*cking good enough.
If he wasnt such a good striker he would be out the door as far as im concerned.
He didn’t do that either.
They caught us on the counter a few times, where was he ?
Floating about the half way line as usual.
He has no pace or vision to see a pass and as Sir Dunc says cant even carry the ball 20 metres which will allow other midfielders and wide players to run and make space.
All we get is the shirking of responsibility and sideways passes. Since we signed him in every big game he has been invisible.
No he hasn't - in an attempt to make your point seem valid it instead just comes across like you pick and choose your games if that is your legitimate view.
He isn’t in the same ball park as Hemdani.
I was a big Hemdani supporter on here when others were shouting for Thompson to be played instead.
Brahmin was calm, never gave the ball away and always found his player. He would carry the ball to half way and play a pass in front of his man.
He would break down attacks by taking the ball of the toes of the opposition to allow us to quickly counter attack.
Jack does none of this, he is slow and ponderous and slows down the pace of the game when we need to be increasing it.
In games like last night he is as about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.
Jacks performance was summed up early in the 2nd half
we had then pinned down and the pressure was building
another clearance found him and he was lazy with a pass - they attacked and we struggled to get that pressure back up again
Hibs games last year, the Celtic games he took part in, look at our home record last year and the record home losses.
His best games have been away from home or when having to cope with some pressure from teams who attacked us. Ironically his best game was in the 3-0 win against Aberdeen when McCrorie played his role.
The main point is in a game where a team sits back and defends and relies on set pieces or a quick counter he offers the team nothing.
As I have said the whole team was shit last night and we could do a similar critique of every outfield player, however I don’t think Jack is good enough to play for a Rangers team that wants to win titles.
He’s a player who at best is average at what he does, one we need to upgrade on
Jack is a defensive midfielder, his primary focus is to win the ball back and keep it moving, he isn't or shouldn't be expected to be playing through balls for the rest of the team.
The lack of movement last night was shambolic and when we did get the ball everyone wanted to take a few touches and pass it with rarely anyone looking to make the difference themselves.
Jack is not the problem.
To play this system you need a 'holder' its the other two central midfielders jobs to be creative.
The best example of this in the world is Busquets at Barca different level altogether same principles though.
It all falls back on the loan players not being good enough.
Ryan Jack, the two centre backs and James Tavernier were the only players doing what they were supposed to be doing last night. Jack is frustrating because he passes sideways to another man but that is literally his job, win the ball or intercept and pass to someone more creative. He intercepted and won the ball several times last night despite what many in here are trying to say.
The problem with the midfield last night was glaring. We were playing hoofball towards Aberdeen all night long, just like they wanted, not only that, Coulibaly and Ejaria were positioned along their backline, we were playing the entire game with 5 and sometimes 7 men along their defensive line, nobody was offering themselves or coming short for the ball all night long.
Also, ive seen from several people now that James Tavernier 'went hiding'. That is total nonsense, absolute nonsense. He is one player who never hides. Their left back was actually brilliant last night believe it or not.
he is billed as a holding player
yet he struggles with the taking the ball off the defence part & isn't as clincal in tackling as he should be
going forward he offers nothing at all
we seem to be getting a one burst into the "redzone" per game with him not knowing what to do when he gets there
but that last part applies to all three last night
Because you still need someone sitting. How man times have we been sucker punched into a goal by pushing evetyone forward? It happened a lot under warburton.
We missed Arfield and we need to sign another Arfield.
No disrespect to the boy because he gives his all but Jack is a midfielder with extremely limited ability. Sure he's capable of breaking up play and diving into tackles but he instinctively looks for the sideways or backwards pass ALL THE TIME . He very rarely dictates a game or inspires others around him by bringing them into play. We already have young McCrorie on our books who can do all that and arguably better than Jack can.
He missed a large chunk of our home games last year as he was injured, so no I won't look at our home record and link it to poor performances from him.... if anything I would look at it and say the correlation was shit results came more frequent when Jack wasn't there... you have also picked our home record last season rather than this for some bizarre reason.... last season we sacked 2 managers basically that suggests more to do with our home record than an individual player.
The main point is you said he has been invisible in every big game, he hasn't its a fabrication of BS to try and make your point seem valid, a point you yourself made redundant in your own post by praising his display in.... a big game.
He actually keeps the ball and plays it simple.
As a defensive midfielder, some seem to have a problem with that which is really weird.
The role of a defensive mid is not to make sideways passes.
He should be mobile enough to get back and help central defence and provide cover when the full backs move up.
He should also be mobile enough to get on the ball and quickly turn the direction of the game by carrying the ball to allow our wide players and more creative mids to find space and then find them with a pass.
He failed in both parts of this.
He took no responsibility, never moved with the ball and made passes backwards or sideways to his CHs.
When he did try to play a pass to Middleton or Candeias it was always behind them.
I am sorry that it is just Jack that is being discussed as every out field player last night was rotten.
He isn’t good enough for us for where we want to be - a league winning team.
He's a backs to the wall safety player. We are at home against premier League shite. We need a different kind of player for that. A midfider who can tackle, pass, attack and shoot. The opposite of the safety Jack offers.
The midfield ain't working and he's not the only one. It's time we tried something different.
Arfield, McCrorie, Rossiter ?
Arfield, McCrorie, Ejaria ?
Got to mix it up. The combos we are trying are shite.
Jack is simply not good enough
He hides behind his man so much for a midfielder
Doesn’t get involved in the play
Offers virtually nothing going forward
Isn’t very good at protecting the back 4 either
Dont know what game you watched last night
I don't expect him to be a first team regular next season. I thought he started the season brightly, hoping he proves me wrong, but he's a stop gap long term. He's not alone in that.
I would be amazed if he was in the top 5 for tackles won in the league. Needs a kick up the Jacksie
7 of your last 10 posts are having a go at Jack.
Give it a rest!
He wasn't great last night but was still far better than Coulibaly and Ejaria.
He's never going to play a 70 yard pass or try and take the ball out from the back like other players can. His job is simple and he does it well most of the time. He's been breaking forward and then not being used, which leaves a gap in the midfield. In saying that, I think McCrorie and Rossiter deserve a chance on Sunday, which would mean playing Jack is unlikely.
Ejaria constantly wants to drop back and get the ball, but he does very little with it. Coulibaly looks off the pace, which isn't great for a box-to-box player; he isn't a defensive mid in my opinion. We missed Arfield but I don't think the left hand side helped us at all; Middleton and Flanagan don't have the same on-pitch relationship that Barisic and even Halliday have developed with the wingers. Halliday could have been slotted into the left of the midfield three.
I felt at half time we could have made more changes - Lafferty and Halliday on for Ejaria/Coulibaly and Flanagan and go with a 4-4-2 against their 4-2-3-0.
There was no bravery in the midfield 3.
To those questioning what Arfield brought / brings to the party, last night showed you in spades - bravery on the ball.
None of midfield three from last night are good enough for a Rangers winning midfield. That’s not having a go, it’s just a fact.
I'd get this 433 to phuck and get a 4231
Jack and McCrorie the 2.
The problem is Ejaria not Jack.
Our creative midfielder can’t create or score goals. He will never make it at Liverpool
As many have mentioned, he's a deep lying holding midfielder who's job is to win back possession and play it to others who have the responsibility and attributes to do that. Unfortunately he had nothing to play too. Ejaria went sideways or passed back to McAuley 99% of the time and Coulibaly looks aimless in possession.