Scottish football is a physical war of attrition

Having better players on paper means nothing if they don't apply themselves and put in the effort and work rate.

I don't think many would disagree with you.

We have the best team in this League by a country mile. Psychologically, however, we are clearly weak. We have lost that killer instinct to punish teams when in front. The more we leak stupid goals, the worse it gets. We need to be in Hearts faces from the first minute at the weekend and with no let-up.
 
If you ask me, this is on the players. Did the manager help with some of his decisions? No, but does he send his players out to be lethargic, passive and in some instances downright lazy? No.

The lack of mentality is sadly lacking and not for the first time with this group.

They have it all to do.
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.
Agreed. I've been saying for ages on here that it's a leveller that we just can't seem to deal with. If the opposition want it more we struggle and drop points.

We have a mentality issue at the heart of this team and have done for years now. It affects some of not only our best players, but best players in the league. What was our captain's quote on that again ?
 
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Lying back and letting them come at us killed us last night. We needed to be in their faces from the start.
Exactly...I can't remember 1 really hard tackle last night,we sat back and let them come at us time after time. Nearly every time they cut back they easily found 1 of their players unmarked and in space, poor tactics and poor individual performances, our next game is going to show us how they react its a must win game and the crowd won't except any player not giving one hundred percent.
 
Lying back and letting them come at us killed us last night. We needed to be in their faces from the start.
That, if previous displays are anything to go by, is on the manager. However, I don’t believe that he is sending them out to be as lethargic and passive as what we were last night.

Look at Kamara’s contribution for the second and third goals. Talk about lazy. No wonder he was hooked.
 
The way to play is like them. High energy pacy football. Midfielders and wing backs running box to box. Why do you think the spfl have recently changed the rule to allow 5 subs. They can change out half their outfield players in the second half. Look at Jota, Hatate last night totally fucked after an hour but they can bring on Forrest etc. We had a lazy midfield apart from Jack and Arfield, Tav did nothing and Borna had a nightmare. Play high energy football or we wont win the league.
 
I think that undervalues the physical element of the game. Fancy skills are obviously nicer on the eye than players who graft. I don't think you can separate the 2. A poster reckons we've got the best team in scotland by far. Arguably the gap isnt that big. We've got a very consistent team with higher than average (for Scotland) technical ability, but if we can't take care of the physical side of football and we're tactically naive with our organisation and application then the skill counts for nothing.

The best blend of physical play and skill I've seen is the Jupp Heynckes Bayern team that won the Champions League, absolutely thrashing Barcelona on the way (was it 7-0 in the semi final?). They played a high pressing game and were pretty direct with their passing, but it wasn't a long ball game. It wasn't hoofball. At times I think we fail to properly appreciate the physical side of things. That team were capable of being physical when they had to be, grafting for 90 minutes if needed and being very threatening going forward. They were genuinely brilliant to watch.
 
We can say all we want on here and give all the battlecrys but if players dont win their individual battles up here in the spfl then your not winning many games of football skill wise we are as good as anyone and better than most but you have to be physical ian ferguson had it stuart mcall had it and countless others who have worn a blue shirt have had it .
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.
Spot on its a hybrid of what other countries consider football,Skill takes a backseat to the physical side of the game.
 
Why are people making threads using fancy words, trying to distinguish from the other shite already on the go? This pish could have been placed in the numerous threads that exist on page 1
You shouldn't have answered the thread then if it bothers you so much
 
Exactly...I can't remember 1 really hard tackle last night,we sat back and let them come at us time after time. Nearly every time they cut back they easily found 1 of their players unmarked and in space, poor tactics and poor individual performances, our next game is going to show us how they react its a must win game and the crowd won't except any player not giving one hundred percent.
The Japanese 2 goals could have been avoided as he on both occasions had time to control ball have a look and shoot with no one around him, on these occasions he should have ben closed down and thumped with a heavy tackle that was one of our problems last night closing down and marking was dismal
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.
We've performed like that since the winter break. Meek, lethargic and disinterested. Our hunger and desire have vanished.
 
It’s about doing this quickly so that the class player have a bit of room. This taking 5 minutes to pass a bykick n taking 3/4 touches when 1/2 will do is killing us. Let’s the other team back in n close off any space our players need.
 
was memories of the semi final game last time where a team got in our faces and we did not handle it, and having saw the Ryan Jack interview on Rangers TV he was spot on and very honest, but again post match where is Tav gone missing again but was there for the pre match interviews
 
We have said a few time that this team lacks leaders. Players that while aren't the most skilled, can self motivate, can drive others on, are consistent if not spectacular. The Ryan Jack's of this world. A type of player you appreciate more when he's not playing.

A lot of the steel & desire you sense came from the previous management team. However, I don't think we will get that with this manager. So we might need to find a couple of other players out there that can provide that. I think Ramsey can help with that, but will he be here after the summer? Is big Souttar a leader? Can we keep Jack fit?
 
We have the best team in this League by a country mile.

Do we though?

They’ve scored more goals than us. They generally have more possession and create more chances than us. They defend better than us.

And that’s across 24 league games this season and also the cup competitions so far.

I’m not sure I can agree that ‘the best team in the league by a country mile’ would be second best in just about every single statistic as well as the league table itself all because of application levels.

If a proper neutral and knowledgable football fan was asked to pick an SPL best 11 side just now, how many of our players would genuinely make it?
 
If you ask me, this is on the players. Did the manager help with some of his decisions? No, but does he send his players out to be lethargic, passive and in some instances downright lazy? No.

The lack of mentality is sadly lacking and not for the first time with this group.

They have it all to do.
If that's the case, then we'll obviously see numerous players dropped for the weekend?
If not, then why not?
 
We have said a few time that this team lacks leaders. Players that while aren't the most skilled, can self motivate, can drive others on, are consistent if not spectacular. The Ryan Jack's of this world. A type of player you only miss when he's not playing.

A lot of the steel & desire you sense came from the previous management team. However, I don't think we will get that with this manager. So we might need to find a couple of other players out there that can provide that. I think Ramsey can help with that, but will he be here after the summer? Is big Souttar a leader? Can we keep Jack fit?
I believe the tone is set from within the heart, and leadership of the team. I don't like using that lot as a comparison, but you could see the difference last night, and especially in the recent past with Brown in the mix. We need that desire, hunger and aggression to come from our leaders in the team, but I don't believe it's there. Where that is lacking, and when those individuals themselves don't set a good example, the rest will collapse and melt away. You're right, we need to identify players with those attributes and plan ahead now.
 
If you ask me, this is on the players. Did the manager help with some of his decisions? No, but does he send his players out to be lethargic, passive and in some instances downright lazy? No.

The lack of mentality is sadly lacking and not for the first time with this group.

They have it all to do.
If that's the case, then we'll obviously see numerous players dropped for the weekend?
If not, then why not?
Should read ‘the mentality is sadly lacking’.

Davester - I’d imagine that Barasic will be benched. But GvB may give them all the opportunity to rectify their mistakes. If fitness and availability allowed, I’d also bench Kamara. His culpability in the second and third goals were inexcusable in my book and I say that despite the manager asking him to do something that he isn’t capable of.
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.
This in a nutshell. Be honest a lot of players dont like that and are intimidated. Players from outside Scotland are used to more time on the ball etc little flicks and sooner or later Dalio will be booted and intimidated by a hammer thrower
 
I’m not one for studying body language but Ryan Kent last night was moody, uninterested and insulted himself at every chance he got.
Not an excuse for him at all because I agree something seems off with him……but he’s not afforded the same freedom to move along the front line like he was under Gerrard.

This makes him predictable to mark and defend.

He‘s not dragging players out of position and creating space for others.

The lack of interchange upfront is leaving the midfield with few passing options.

This simple adjustment could see Gio get another 10% out of this team imo.
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.
100% Correct , you can be the best player in world playing in Scotland , however if you don’t show aggression , physicality and desire in the first instance ,you have no chance and would get bullied all over the place.
 
And in this war, we are bringing water pistols to a gun fight. Too nice from Manager to Captain alike. Oh for a couple of bastards in our team with a real will to win.
 
I believe the tone is set from within the heart, and leadership of the team. I don't like using that lot as a comparison, but you could see the difference last night, and especially in the recent past with Brown in the mix. We need that desire, hunger and aggression to come from our leaders in the team, but I don't believe it's there. Where that is lacking, and when those individuals themselves don't set a good example, the rest will collapse and melt away. You're right, we need to identify players with those attributes and plan ahead now.

Indeed. I keep hearing and reading pundits in their analysis say Celtic were stronger and more physical last night.

But why? Bar Diallo, are they a stronger physically player for player?

Are Juranovic and Taylor physically stronger than Barasic and Tav? Are Carter Vickers and Starfelt more than Goldson and Bassey? Mcgregor, Hatate, O'Reilly than Kamara, Aribo, Arfield? Jota than Kent?

No, their strength came from their desire and their commitment and their willingness to give 100% and believe in what thay are doing. Ours was sadly lacking in those departments.
 
Skill levels are secondary to effort and work-rate in our League. If the focus, determination and urgency is not there from the first minute, as we witnessed last night, then having better players means next to nothing.

The old mantra, you have got to win the battles before you win the war, stands true. Each player has to get the better of his opponent.

Last night, especially first half, not one of our outfield players was a match for their opponent. Every one can have an off day but you make up for that with 100% effort. Our players faild to give even that and visibly wilted under the pressure in what was our biggest game of the season.

I thought I'd never again witness the OF humiliations suffered under Caxinha and Murty but last night brought those nightmares back. Only Shagger saved us from a humbling defeat.
 
We’ve returned to being soft and showing teams respect.
It’s concerning that the few things the previous management team identified as problems, outwith tactics on the pitch, are the things we now seem to be lacking again.
 
we couldn't pass the ball 10 yards half the time. They more than matched us with talent and worked twice as hard.
 
The old mantra, you have got to win the battles before you win the war, stands true. Each player has to get the better of his opponent.

Last night, especially first half, not one of our outfield players was a match for their opponent. Every one can have an off day but you make up for that with 100% effort. Our players faild to give even that and visibly wilted under the pressure in what was our biggest game of the season.

I thought I'd never again witness the OF humiliations suffered under Caxinha and Murty but last night brought those nightmares back. Only Shagger saved us from a humbling defeat.

We played better at the Piggery when losing 2-6. Last night was just embarrassing the lack of effort and commitment from the first whistle.
 
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