SD v RFC Judgement

longtimedead

Well-Known Member
Every part of the onerous contract must be detailed and publicised.

If it doesn’t make a difference to us in the short term, it might completely %^*& up his potential sale of NUFC.

No doubt he has the same stuff written into them.
 

Mustang mad

Well-Known Member
No expert on this.
It looks to me though that rangers for rangers here.
We gave Ashley an open goal . He couldn't miss.
Also, back to sports direct next season by the looks of it
 

bobba

Well-Known Member
Just tried to read through it again. It seems SD had the right to match Hummels offer of production? I know SD has many brands, but did they really expect to have Rangers playing in Lonsdale branded strips?!? I had presumed it would be for non kit merchandise and retail distribution, but it looks like they wanted the right to manufacture as well?!? Maybe read it wrong, good if someone smarter (not difficult tbh) can clarify or correct.
I think this is an interesting argument relating to the whole match business. There are other softer benefits that come from an offer that aren't wholly monetary. So, for example, say we actually want our branding strategy to aim towards hipsters. Hummel have offered that with the cache that they bring as a brand. That can't be replicated, regardless of whether or not SDI would propose a 'cooler' manufacturer.
 

38Red

New Member
From where I sit, the Learned Judge has gone by the contract written between us and SDI. We all know that SDI had their placemen on Rangers at the time and they were the ones who signed this ridiculous deal. There really is nothing we can do about it until it expires except to mitigate the damage these unscrupulous individuals have caused us. We can appeal everything and wait until we are in a better monetary position before offering SDI a settlement that the fat man can accept. Unfortunately, the Learned Judge can only go by the written contract in front of him and that is his only route.
This contract superseded the 'placemen' contract. It was signed by King et al.
 

RFC_Champions

Well-Known Member
It does seem that way, but would Dave King have gone down this route without knowing the worst case scenario? Could it be that he is going through the motions for some other reason?
Could it be that our lawyers are so shït that they didn’t fully understand the “true” worst case scenario, therefore told king a lot of gash?
 

Del

Well-Known Member
It does seem that way, but would Dave King have gone down this route without knowing the worst case scenario? Could it be that he is going through the motions for some other reason?
King might be many things but one thing he is not is stupid,

He said this would take many battles before we free ourselves. He knows that SD will appeal every decision and frustrate the process wherever possible.

The judges comments on how untrustworthy the witness's on both sides were are a clear indication that there are games being played out behind the scenes.

No way King has went blind into this - it would be nice to know what the game is but for obvious reasons those cards will be played close to his chest.

On a side note with everything in lardy boys empire looking shaky there has never been a better time to start to counter attack.
 
An appeal is merely a time delay, Judges very rarely make that big of a mistake in due dilligence of these issues in commercial cases that an appeal judge would completely 360 the decision. Best we can hope for is we can convince an appeal judge to go against some of the finer details in this judgement. Businessmen like King dont become successful by being stupid so he has either had very bad advice here or is playing the long game in which he hopes we both litigate each other into a final submission/monetary divorce settlement. Only problem with that is the fat lady's front bottom has much more money reserves to burn through for lawyers than we do when chasing on field success.
 

EH47

Well-Known Member
King might be many things but one thing he is not is stupid,

He said this would take many battles before we free ourselves. He knows that SD will appeal every decision and frustrate the process wherever possible.

The judges comments on how untrustworthy the witness's on both sides were are a clear indication that there are games being played out behind the scenes.

No way King has went blind into this - it would be nice to know what the game is but for obvious reasons those cards will be played close to his chest.

On a side note with everything in lardy boys empire looking shaky there has never been a better time to start to counter attack.
Aye, but I seem to remember he made a statement not too long ago to the effect he'd somehow got one over on fatso, and things would ìmprove soon.
Was that a stupid statement to make?
 

Marty101

Well-Known Member
Just tried to read through it again. It seems SD had the right to match Hummels offer of production? I know SD has many brands, but did they really expect to have Rangers playing in Lonsdale branded strips?!? I had presumed it would be for non kit merchandise and retail distribution, but it looks like they wanted the right to manufacture as well?!? Maybe read it wrong, good if someone smarter (not difficult tbh) can clarify or correct.
This bit is difficult to get your head around, but I think the position is that SDI don't have a right to match an offer to manufacture if that offer is free standing. Manufacturing isn't one of the things the have the right to match.

They do however have a right to match if manufacturing is part of an overall deal which includes any of the things they have the right to match. The manufacturing then becomes a "connected commercial arrangement" for the purposes of the contract.

In the Hummel case we offered the right to manufacture together with the right to wholesale distribution. The right to wholesale distribution was one of the things they had the right to match. That meant SDI had the right to see the whole of the Hummel deal and match both the distribution rights and the manufacturing rights - which had become a connected commercial arrangement.

Para 76 - "Rangers chose to bundle wholesale distribution rights (which are, as I have found, an Offered Right) together with manufacturing rights as part of a proposed composite deal which subsequently became the Elite/Hummel Agreement. If a separate deal had been concluded in respect of manufacturing rights then SDIR would have had no right to match it. When, however, the right to manufacture was offered as part of a bundle, or deal, or package that also included one or more Offered Rights that right to manufacture became a connected commercial arrangement."
 

Earl of Leven

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
It looks like - to the untrained eye - that the profits made by the Elite deal are going to SDI. So again, no merch money. And yes, it appears we're back to boycotting and being only top flight club in Europe with no merch deal and zero shirt slaesm. And still the fucking judge won't name 'fair price' to buy out the deal. It seems literally infinite in duration.

Our legal team have been fucked without lube. In fact they brought the lube but were ordered not to use it by the judge.
 

texas_pedro

Well-Known Member
King might be many things but one thing he is not is stupid,

He said this would take many battles before we free ourselves. He knows that SD will appeal every decision and frustrate the process wherever possible.

The judges comments on how untrustworthy the witness's on both sides were are a clear indication that there are games being played out behind the scenes.

No way King has went blind into this - it would be nice to know what the game is but for obvious reasons those cards will be played close to his chest.

On a side note with everything in lardy boys empire looking shaky there has never been a better time to start to counter attack.
All we ever hear is king isn’t daft, he has a plan for SD etc etc. Well, if he has a plan, he’s just had his arse handed to him in a big way. Nothing in that decision makes for pleasant reading.

We were caught lying, have tried to use legal arguments that the judge said our lawyers shouldn’t have let be put forward, and gambled on a cap for damages and numerous other disasters.

He better pull his master plan out soon cos his other plan is failing badly. And if James Blair is still employed in a legal capacity we should be thinking about changing that. What a disaster he seems to have masterminded.
 

HenningBerg

Well-Known Member
It looks like - to the untrained eye - that the profits made by the Elite deal are going to SDI. So again, no merch money. And yes, it appears we're back to boycotting and being only top flight club in Europe with no merch deal and zero shirt slaesm. And still the fucking judge won't name 'fair price' to buy out the deal. It seems literally infinite in duration.

Our legal team have been fucked without lube. In fact they brought the lube but were ordered not to use it by the judge.
And what about to the trained eye ?
 

Craig

Well-Known Member
Firstly, fuck SDI and Ashley
We need to challenge this apparent never ending right of SDI to be the retail partner if they choose to be. Madness.
The issue is that it's a legally binding document, that was agreed to by all before being signed off - therein lies the fundamental problem.

Forget about us and Ashley for a moment:

Say you had a business that won a contract to supply widgets and gizmos to a certain company. In that contract, you (or your legal team) installed a clause giving you first refusal on any future contracts, all you had to do was meet the bids and terms of the other competitor(s) - it's a no brainer and a 100% win/win for you.

Now, just say that, the company buying your widgets and gizmos decides to ignore the contract and basically say fuck you Jamesy - you'd have their arse in court before they knew it.

You'd hold them to that clause they agreed to* That's just shrewd business.

*whilst they were asking their legal team what the %^*& it was they'd agreed to.
 

dudzo

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
An appeal is merely a time delay, Judges very rarely make that big of a mistake in due dilligence of these issues in commercial cases that an appeal judge would completely 360 the decision. Best we can hope for is we can convince an appeal judge to go against some of the finer details in this judgement. Businessmen like King dont become successful by being stupid so he has either had very bad advice here or is playing the long game in which he hopes we both litigate each other into a final submission/monetary divorce settlement. Only problem with that is the fat lady's front bottom has much more money reserves to burn through for lawyers than we do when chasing on field success.
They did with the big tax case, I think we won every one until the last.
 

Uncle Albert

Well-Known Member
It looks like we've tried to be as obstructive as possible (which of course, is exactly what SD has done to us for years).

I think folk are giving Blair too much credit - I'd be amazed if he wasn't acting as instructed by King.

Remember how difficult King can be. Appealing this seems pointless, again looks like us trying to be as difficult as possible and lengthening the process by many more months.

How this will all end up will be anyone's guess. I don't know why the courts can't review this relationship in its entirety and see it is utterly toxic and beyond repair.
 

Bluenose1979

Well-Known Member
Every legal opinion on here says we're fucked.
There’s really never been any convincing evidence, opinion or argument put forward in this whole saga by anyone to suggest otherwise.

There’s the blind refusal of some to accept even the most black and white information posted from the courts and the relentless belief of others that
DK simply can’t be wrong and it must be part of a super plan that is unfolding.

There is little to base that on that I can see.
 

bobba

Well-Known Member
Para 76 - "Rangers chose to bundle wholesale distribution rights (which are, as I have found, an Offered Right) together with manufacturing rights as part of a proposed composite deal which subsequently became the Elite/Hummel Agreement. If a separate deal had been concluded in respect of manufacturing rights then SDIR would have had no right to match it. When, however, the right to manufacture was offered as part of a bundle, or deal, or package that also included one or more Offered Rights that right to manufacture became a connected commercial arrangement."
How can you 'match' the IP rights that each brand has related to they manufacture their goods? i.e. Nike's Dri-FIT, Hummel's ZERO H20, etc. The products at that point are completely different entities.
 

texas_pedro

Well-Known Member
Assuming we don’t win an appeal, and nothing I’ve seem suggests we would, there are only two options:

Embrace sports direct and try and make the relationship work

Find an amount of cash to pay them off

Neither are great options and I doubt SD would take a pay off. It’s a bit of sport for them now
 

Del

Well-Known Member
Firstly, fuck SDI and Ashley


The issue is that it's a legally binding document, that was agreed to by all before being signed off - therein lies the fundamental problem.

Forget about us and Ashley for a moment:

Say you had a business that won a contract to supply widgets and gizmos to a certain company. In that contract, you (or your legal team) installed a clause giving you first refusal on any future contracts, all you had to do was meet the bids and terms of the other competitor(s) - it's a no brainer and a 100% win/win for you.

Now, just say that, the company buying your widgets and gizmos decides to ignore the contract and basically say fuck you Jamesy - you'd have their arse in court before they knew it.

You'd hold them to that clause they agreed to* That's just shrewd business.

*whilst they were asking their legal team what the %^*& it was they'd agreed to.
You make it sound so simple - I am amazed it took so many judges years to work it out.

The court time this has taken tells its own story. There is a legal war going on - it still has a long long way to go.
 

Livibear

Well-Known Member
Assuming we don’t win an appeal, and nothing I’ve seem suggests we would, there are only two options:

Embrace sports direct and try and make the relationship work

Find an amount of cash to pay them off

Neither are great options and I doubt SD would take a pay off. It’s a bit of sport for them now
The issue there is that Sports Direct aren’t in the slightest bit interested in having a normal working relationship.

As you said yourself, this is just a bit of sport to them.

They want to use Rangers as a marketing tool for SD or nothing.
 

HenningBerg

Well-Known Member
Every legal opinion on here says we're fucked.
In what way ?

Let’s be honest here , this will come down to an irreparable future relationship and us paying SDI money . How much money will be the issue after all the legal stuff is exhausted .

We aren’t “ fucked “ as there will be a limit on how much we pay them - yes it may make a big dent in the merchandise money earned , but we were getting Fck all as it stood anyway .

Let’s not over egg the pudding here - it’s been a terrible mess and we will pay the price but after what we have been through , this is manageable , if costly .

Let’s hope lessons have been well and truly learned .
 

RAFBob

Well-Known Member
Someone mentioned they read the 92nd paragraph and I've decided that I'm not reading that (I'm better at watching, listening and chatting :D), however am I right in saying that SDI would have to match the terms that are agreed with Elite?

If they do then what have we got to lose by offering them the opportunity to match the deal - I hate the fat kunt as much as the next Rangers man, I'm rather sick of seeing us losing money to him through loss after loss in court battles though.

If we get the same amount from sales of merchandise, if they have to match the production and satisfaction rates, what would we be losing?

Pride costs nothing, however it can result in Rangers losing money.
 

dmaude1872

Well-Known Member
Someone remind me why we paid £3m to Sports Direct then? Remember King's grandstanding press conference saying the deal had been renegotiated?

This is shambolic and I've criticised the board since we started selling kits via Elite. I was called all sorts for that and had posts deleted for being "negative..."

This cannot be defended.
 

insanicdrunk

Well-Known Member
How can you 'match' the IP rights that each brand has related to they manufacture their goods? i.e. Nike's Dri-FIT, Hummel's ZERO H20, etc. The products at that point are completely different entities.
Not if you join them in one contract, the manufacturing part gets same conditions as the disty part because they are in the same contract.
 

Earl of Leven

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
In what way ?

Let’s be honest here , this will come down to an irreparable future relationship and us paying SDI money . How much money will be the issue after all the legal stuff is exhausted .

We aren’t “ fucked “ as there will be a limit on how much we pay them - yes it may make a big dent in the merchandise money earned , but we were getting Fck all as it stood anyway .

Let’s not over egg the pudding here - it’s been a terrible mess and we will pay the price but after what we have been through , this is manageable , if costly .

Let’s hope lessons have been well and truly learned .
Fucked as in the entire "get it round you SD" idea involving Elite has been named illegal and all profits will go to fatso.
 

Uncle Albert

Well-Known Member
It's looking more and more like we might have to talk to SDI. We need merch money and cannot just boycott forever. I personally don't care whether Dave King hates him, the club comes first.
SDI owe us £3 Million in dividends from RRL and just haven't bothered paying it.

You're completely naive if you think it's as simple as just swallowing our pride and buying from Ashley.
 

bobba

Well-Known Member
Not if you join them in one contract, the manufacturing part gets same conditions as the disty part because they are in the same contract.
But if Nike offer to make your tops with Dri-FIT technology, no one else can do that because it's their own intellectual property. Therefore, it can't be matched.
 

HenningBerg

Well-Known Member
Fucked as in the entire "get it round you SD" idea involving Elite has been named illegal and all profits will go to fatso.
Agreed but not fucked as in totally fucked .

We’ve lost, we will payout, eventually , we will move on and be successful . As long as we have learned severe and costly lessons here .
 
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