Selling players: emotion v common sense

Earl of Leven

Earl of Leven

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For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
 
I’d sell Morelos as for a number of reasons, I think it’s best for us going forward.

But I’d keep Tav. Pretty integral to the team and offers us something we simply won’t find in another full back. Whereas with Alfie, we already know we can actually improve in his absence.
 
A) We aren’t going to win the league next year if we lose Morelos & Tav as well as Kent. Makes no sense to be weakening ourselves when the title is there for the taking.

B) I’m not confident we can replace these important players successfully in one window.
 
There’s two ways to look at it EoL
Sell the players for a profit of circa 20 million and reinvest in the squad
It’s a huge profit and that lot across the city have been doing this for a few years now The downside is that you have to find players who will better the squad and as we have all seen most players take time to bed in

The other way is to keep our best players and we have more chance of winning the title next year which brings a chance to qualify for the Champions League which brings a far bigger profit. The downside to that is that there is a fair chance we don’t actually reach the CL group stages as the qualifying for that looks harder and harder each year
 
The chat while in the lower leagues was full of nice rhetoric which quickly went out the window when we started losing regularly to them again.

It's blindingly obvious the agreement has been there with Morelos that he can go this summer I think most made their peace with that months ago.

Tavernier would be close to impossible to replace in terms of what he offers. You only have to look at the guy that they got on loan from Dortumund who is very poor. Attacking fullbacks are ten a penny but productive ones are priceless.
 
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I think it comes down to what the objectives of the team/club are. If the priority is making money then we sell players once their value has increased to x point.

If our objective is to win the league, which is my ultimate priority for next year and I'd like to think its the board's too, then we keep our best assets and add more quality to the team where needed/possible.

We've currently got a squad which for the last 2 months or so has been churning out 8/10 performances. Why would we risk dismantling the core of this team to gamble on new players coming in at least being as good as what we've got.

The obvious exception is Morelos. Great goalscorer but has his issues. Been very important for us but we have proved post split that hes not integral. Personally I'd like him to stay but I see the merit in selling and reinvesting the money.
 
We receive silly money for Tav and he goes, I don’t think emotion comes into it, same goes with Morelos, who will go definitely I’m sure.
 
Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
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Every player has his price, that pretty much happens at every club in world football.

The key is our initial outlay.

For example we need to be be the club that finds for example a Jelavic cheaply then sells him as we would no longer be able to buy the finished article.
 
Nobody, not even Tav is irreplaceable.

The reality is we need to complete the normalisation of the clubs affairs.

The bheasts benefited financially more than anyone else from our misfortune.

I think around 2011 ish both clubs were generating £50-60m in revenue.

A couple of years ago it was something like £90m them v £30m us.

The trophies will come, you could argue it will be a bi-product of increasing revenue (as long as the funds are re-invested in the squad).

It's not a post I'm comfortable with, I think it's just the reality of modern fitba'.
 
Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
Click to expand...

I’d like to keep Tav and sell Alfie.

Tav is an incredible athlete who can give us a whole right side by himself when we want to play narrower up top as we have done so well after the trip to the pigpen. He’s getting better defensively every year and rarely picks up injuries or suspensions.

Alfie is an immense talent but he’s not yet clinical despite the number of goals he’s scored. Nobody scores everything but he has a significant number of days when he doesn’t look like he will score- the two games at Easter Road for instance when we should have won out of sight. You could argue other people need to step up on those days but it’s been an issue for us in bigger games. He’s such a good focal point we are also a bit more direct with him and that at time plays into the hands of the teams we play.The biggest factor for me though is he’s a marked man, even by Rangers standards. Every time he falls, every time he challenges it’s going to be analysed and slowed down. I think if he stays he’ll be suspended a fair bit. We can’t afford that.
 
It’s definitely the way we need to work going forward, however that doesn’t mean we have to sell everyone at once.

When Morelos leaves, then I don’t think we need to accept an offer for Tav. Keep him and use the Morelos money to reinvest in the squad.

I also think we have to trust MA and Gerrard in that they have adequate replacements scouted and in place to sign. Of course, not every signing works out but that’s a chance every club takes.

Money talks and if big bids come in for Tav, Alfie or anyone else then we’d have huge decisions to make.
 
I think that we're only looking at one half of the equation here too. Its all very well to suggest selling Tav and Morelos and banking 20-30m. However, we've yet to show any sort of consistency when it comes to successfully scouting/buying players.

Our best players this year have cost 1m in transfer fees (McGregor, Arfield, Kent and Morelos) whereas the biggest disappointments this season have cost us around 5m (Barisic, Grezda and Lafferty). Obviously transfers are always a lottery to an extent, but you need to hope that we already have suitable replacements lined up for any important players that are leaving.
 
Keep Tav and Alfie can go.
I'd love to keep both but realistically it may not be possible.
Our European run will undoubtedly have helped us a great deal this summer.
At the moment it's speculation as to whether we'll sell.
A year ago a proper bid would have seen them gone.
 
Tbh it also depends on the player. If a player wants away, after having received a good offer, then it may cause problems with the player if we refuse. I'm only guessing but I think Morelos is might be a bit more bolshie than Tav if such a situation arises..
 
I think Morelos and Tav will be sold for big money and a significant fraction reinvested to replace them and improve other areas.
 
In an ideal world we sell morelos for 15m as defoe is better anyway imo , I think we must keep tav if financially possible
 
Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
Click to expand...
Strong post. I've had this thought for a long time. Everyone is happy to back the 'buy develop sell' plan until it comes to actually selling, then it becomes 'well if we can get another year'. It's very difficult to judge but we must sell at the optimum time.
 
Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
Click to expand...

Ideally, the position would be one major sale a season - i.e Morelos this season and replace, Tav next season and replace.

The question for me is - Are we strong enough to survive losing both Morelos and Tav at the same time ? You're talking 45 goals scored and another 30 set up between them I think.

Also how much does Gerrard see of the potential money. Say we get £25m between them. What happens if SG only gets 10/12 of that and the rest goes to funding the club and covering the shortfalls ? Is that enough for him to deliver 4/5 automatic starters that go right into the starting XI ?

For what it's worth I'd happily punt Morelos this summer. Tav I'd be looking to keep. I'd be ideally selling other players with resale value before him.
 
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Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
Click to expand...


I lost all "emotion" for players when in 97/98, I watched first hand a bunch of perma-pished players get fucked out of Europe twice in a month and then be so unfit they were out ran by nobodies throughout the league season.
 
SDF said:
Ideally, the position would be one major sale a season - i.e Morelos this season and replace, Tav next season and replace.

The question for me is - Are we strong enough to survive losing both Morelos and Alfie at the same time ? You're talking 45 goals scored and another 30 set up between them I think.

Also how much does Gerrard see of the potential money. Say we get £25m between them. What happens if SG only gets 10/12 of that and the rest goes to funding the club and covering the shortfalls ? Is that enough for him to deliver 4/5 automatic starters that go right into the starting XI ?

For what it's worth I'd happily punt Morelos this summer. Tav I'd be looking to keep. I'd be ideally selling other players with resale value before him.
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Pretty much covers how I see it.

We have a tricky road ahead not sure how the club are planning the next step.
 
I wouldn't entertain any bids for Tav. He's just far too vital to the team and we won't get anything close to him in terms of a replacement.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Seems most would sell Alfie...
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He's a very talented liability-a real paradox-before he was a very powerful all rounder who missed unbelievable sitters-he almost completely ironed that out of his game but with that improvement he remains fragile mentally-something that can improve over time.

The million dollar question is his worth to another club. If it is the 15M plus figure or even a bit less surely we cash in?

Even if he stays we need a different type of striker-we need somebody a bit bigger and as robust who gives us another option...if he goes I would suggest we need two strikers......Defoe has still got a lot about him but how he likes to play is difficult at Rangers where teams sit in.
 
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Earl of Leven said:
Seems most would sell Alfie...
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It's better for him, it's better for us. We'll simply go round and round and round in circles with him and the referees if we persist with him next season. Clean start for everyone is best IMO. We get our money, Alfie gets his move and we both go on to hopefully bigger and better things.

He's also far more replaceable right now than Tav is. We've saw that.
 
We have to find middle ground.
There is a settled look about our side we haven’t had in a while..But we’re also a business.
Morelos and Tav are two who would probably fetch us a good wad of cash.. £15/20 million for both.????..
Morelos was scoring for fun but have the SPL hammer throwers sussed his temperament out.? And has Alfie learned from it .??
So keep Tav, sell Alfie.??
Just glad I’m not making that decision.
 
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Earl of Leven said:
For years we discussed 'the plan'. As we struggled to beat Alloa and went to replay with Albion Rovers we hoped one day to have proper coaching and scouting. We'd buy bargains, train them, improve them and caah in, to fund 'the project' at all levels.

Now? It's happening....Tav and Alfie. But what I've noticed is more and more "Actually keep them, we want them for 55...he is my favourite player....what if we waste the money on shite players..."

What is your opinion? How are you feeling re emotional v practical? For me we can't ever turn away £22m for players who cost £1.2m. Our very future depends on it.

Your views:
Click to expand...
Pragmatic, around £10million for Tav ,take it. Anything over £15 million for Alfredo take it. £25 million to spend for 1.25 million outlay. If we can get sell on clauses so much the better.
 
If the right bids come in then we sell.

What the right bids are only guys behind the scenes know.

What I do know is that if we sell our best players it will make it harder to win trophies
 
SDF said:
It's better for him, it's better for us. We'll simply go round and round and round in circles with him and the referees if we persist with him next season. Clean start for everyone is best IMO. We get our money, Alfie gets his move and we both go on to hopefully bigger and better things.

He's also far more replaceable right now than Tav is. We've saw that.
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Re Alfie - as much as I don’t want it to be the case you are spot on there Dunc.
 
Mview83 said:
Re Alfie - as much as I don’t want it to be the case you are spot on there Dunc.
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He's been a brilliant bit of business by the club. He's been good for us and we've been good for him. Three wage rises in two years, a manager who has went to bat for him constantly, a support who idolise him. You could argue that in terms of his standing at a club, he will never have it better in his career.

But the mental flaws are still there sadly. We cannot be paying top whack wage wise to a striker who has yet to fully earn our trust that he won't self implode time and time again.

£15m+ and everyone's a winner. Said before, the boy's talent will take him as far he wants. We've saw the improvement ourselves. But his mentality will be the crucial factor that either makes or breaks him.
 
Tav, I would like to keep. However I think we have a replacement in Ross Mcrorie. Not the finished article, but neither was Tav when he came into the team.
Alfredo can go for me, providing we get a substantial fee and have a replacement lined up. I was disappointed in his behaviour vs Kilmarnock. I am not sure he is capable of keeping his feelings in check.
Ultimately our model has to be develop and sell.
 
Alfie will go this summer and tav will go next summer imo.

Tav will be 28 by that point so if we want big money he needs to go at that point but I don't want them both going in the same window.
 
SDF said:
Ideally, the position would be one major sale a season - i.e Morelos this season and replace, Tav next season and replace.

The question for me is - Are we strong enough to survive losing both Morelos and Tav at the same time ? You're talking 45 goals scored and another 30 set up between them I think.

Also how much does Gerrard see of the potential money. Say we get £25m between them. What happens if SG only gets 10/12 of that and the rest goes to funding the club and covering the shortfalls ? Is that enough for him to deliver 4/5 automatic starters that go right into the starting XI ?

For what it's worth I'd happily punt Morelos this summer. Tav I'd be looking to keep. I'd be ideally selling other players with resale value before him.
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^My thoughts also,replacing more than one big player per window is very difficult and Kent and Morelos going which I expect to happen,will be tough enough.

I'd sign Suchy and Holtby on frees if they'll come,Ojo on loan sounds like it's done.Jones,Hastie and Stewart done.The young lad from Oldham as a project CH.
A striker and 'inside forward' of the best quality we can get would be my focus if possible.
 
I’d sell Morelos if the price is right
Refs don’t give him a fair crack sadly and he’s always got a mad momment in him.
 
Our emotions have nothing to do with Alfie wanting to go. By all accounts he wants to play in a more prestigious league.

I think Tav will be a massive loss and hard to replace but if 10 mil or more comes in for him I don’t know how we turn that down
 
47blue said:
Tav, I would like to keep. However I think we have a replacement in Ross Mcrorie. Not the finished article, but neither was Tav when he came into the team.
Alfredo can go for me, providing we get a substantial fee and have a replacement lined up. I was disappointed in his behaviour vs Kilmarnock. I am not sure he is capable of keeping his feelings in check.
Ultimately our model has to be develop and sell.
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McCrorie isn’t good enough on the ball to replace Tav. Brilliant defensively but the way we play requires a player with more nous in the attack.
 
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No sentiment in it for me.Buy low and hope to sell on at a profit.The downside is, can we buy low successfully on a regular basis when to win 55 we all know we need an upgrade in quality.

Trying to replace a 30 goal a season striker and the best attacking fullback in the country would likely take the best part of the cash generated.
 
We all want to get back to winning titles. Nobody wants to have to go through again what we have during the last 7 years. To some, winning will trump security, others will take the opposite view. Fortunately, it's not binary, we can do both with good business in the transfer market. That is why the investment made by the current board in Mark Allen and the enhanced scouting and development teams is so important. We have the means now to sell higher and buy lower and because of that we don't need to sell many, one a season seems a reasonable target. And nothing is forever. We have a load of good youngsters coming through the ranks, many with the winning mentality missing in the last few years and developed the Rangers way. Properly used, we should see the need to sell much reduced with the balance perhaps swinging the other way.
 
David Edgar said:
McCrorie isn’t good enough on the ball to replace Tav. Brilliant defensively but the way we play requires a player with more nous in the attack.
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Flanagan at RB showed how much we missed Tav there I thought,and I say that as someone old fashioned that really likes Flanagan at LB to balance all the attacking Tav does down the other flank.
Tav-Goldson-Katic-Flanagan looks a solid back four to me,but Tav is the one who offers more going forward obviously and we're much,much less effective without him.

If only Barasic could become the player we know he can be for us we'd have even more of a threat though.
 
We have shown, in a small numbers of games, that we can cope with the loss of Morelos. Indeed we have improved our style of play also, Tav is virtually irreplaceable for us. Tav is probably playing at his optimum, his market value is at its optimum too.
 
David Edgar said:
McCrorie isn’t good enough on the ball to replace Tav. Brilliant defensively but the way we play requires a player with more nous in the attack.
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Respectively disagree. Mcrorie has more pace, which would be an asset overlapping and defending. He has more than enough to develop into the role IMHO.
 
I never really buy the line that this player or that are irreplaceable.

If we have a good structure in place, which it increasingly appears that we do, and a strategy to implement on the park, players will be bought to fit in with that so we shouldn’t be as apprehensive as about losing the likes of Tav or Morelos as some on here appear to be.

They were punts really, bought for a combined fee of little over a million quid, players who have developed into something greater than perhaps we ever hoped, but I don’t see that it’s a trick we can’t repeat.

If we were to sell them for circa £20m, I’d be confident we’d strengthen the whole squad with that sort of money while also finding more than suitable replacements for each player.
 
I've met Tav & his wife & she said even if he's transferred elsewhere, she regards the new house they bought in Strathblane will be the family home, they love it here & have two lovely young kids
However if we get an offer that's upwards of what we got for Alan Hutton then I think we've got to take it
I'd be sorry to see him go but if someone doubles his wages & we get money to reinvest, then this is the route we need to go down
If other clubs come in for our players with big buck's then they must be performing,
The mob across the city have made plenty out of a similar roll model
 
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