Serious Delusion amongst our support

Of course we deserved to be there we earned it as you say with outstanding defence and taking our chances. But what would the odds have been for us to get to the final in December 07 when Lyon eliminated us from CL? We certainly wouldn't have been top 5. So we overachieved.
sorry mate you lost me there
 
But wait, Steven has only been in the job 6 months, aye, but the lacklustre performances have been with us for over 6 years.

Gerrard needs money to bring in quality or I fear he will be gone.......

And as s result, we will be stuck in obscurity for the foreseeable future and that is a big bloody worry........
 
We are in the rebuild process. We lost a year due to Ally fucking up the Championship and we lost another due to the appointment of Pedro.

Gerrard and his team, by getting us to the Group stages unexpectedly has clawed a year back. I’m not happy we went out but in general, with a team of free agents, kids and a couple of £2m players, we are doing ok.

That is a very accurate account of our situation currently. SG and the management team built a squad of players for the league, without the expectation of an extended run in Europe. With the demands that has placed on the squad, it is no real surprise that our domestic performances have suffered.
 
But wait, Steven has only been in the job 6 months, aye, but the lacklustre performances have been with us for over 6 years.

Gerrard needs money to bring in quality or I fear he will be gone.......

And as s result, we will be stuck in obscurity for the foreseeable future and that is a big bloody worry........

Gerrard needs more money, he needs more time and he needs to improve his own performances.

He's inexperienced as a manager, we knew this, we are seeing the signs of it in a lot of our performances at times. Living with that and dealing with that and the time it will take him to learn and be better is a basic requirement of hiring an un-tested manager at this level to a club with our competitive needs/demands.

Frankly, the board IMHO have no choice but to stick with him for a good long spell through thick and thin, regardless of any noise they may encounter. Otherwise the decision to give him the job and not appreciate his lack of experience will be another big black mark alongside the likes of Pedro.
 
You asked if I thought we didn't deserve to get to Manchester. I said that we did deserve it, but that we were not expected to.
ok got you, yes no one and i mean no one expected that outcome, im not arguing we should be expecting to win a european trophy into the future just "why not" does anyone one think SG has no dreams of winning one with us, i bet he does its in his DNA
 
ok got you, yes no one and i mean no one expected that outcome, im not arguing we should be expecting to win a european trophy into the future just "why not" does anyone one think SG has no dreams of winning one with us, i bet he does its in his DNA
Agreed. I think when the 3rd Europe competion starts we should certainly have ambitions to win it. Hopefully Gerrard is still here for it.
 
Gerrard needs more money, he needs more time and he needs to improve his own performances.

He's inexperienced as a manager, we knew this, we are seeing the signs of it in a lot of our performances at times. Living with that and dealing with that and the time it will take him to learn and be better is a basic requirement of hiring an un-tested manager at this level to a club with our competitive needs/demands.

Frankly, the board IMHO have no choice but to stick with him for a good long spell through thick and thin, regardless of any noise they may encounter. Otherwise the decision to give him the job and not appreciate his lack of experience will be another big black mark alongside the likes of Pedro.


agree, we have no choice but to stick, the alternative is horrendous.
To have any chance of success he needs serious financial backing and time.
but he also needs to learn fast, all in all its a tough prospect
 
agree, we have no choice but to stick, the alternative is horrendous.
To have any chance of success he needs serious financial backing and time.
but he also needs to learn fast, all in all its a tough prospect
are we expecting to much from him, the hype is starting to wain and a series of poor performances could make or break him
 
are we expecting to much from him, the hype is starting to wain and a series of poor performances could make or break him

A Rangers manager is expected to win, Rangers players are expected to win. In the real world we actually live in, those are the terms. We can talk all we want about patience and progress and all the rest, but one of the main challenges facing anyone donning the tie and suit or the jersey is that anything less than winning is not going to be tolerated for long.

SG needs time to gain experience and learn. Part of what will help him learn faster is the demands and the refusal to accept or excuse failure.

Unlike many (most) of our players, he cannot be accused of being anything other than a winner and clearly has the heart and character part. I don't think he'll be easily "broken", but he will be angry and as long as the board accept their part in hiring a guy learning his trade for this job and back him to the hilt, he can come good.
 
This whole pedastool stuff needs to stop until it's meritted

In ally we trust
In warbs we trust
In Pedro we trust
In Gerrard we trust.

Ffs some loonies wanted to give graeme Numpty the job full time because he was a good guy

Let them first earn our adulation
We are currently 5 games without scoring first and 3 games without a win.

Trust no one
Question everything
Always
 
I must have watched a different game from quite a few on here.

I thought we dominated for long periods of the match, were unlucky not to take the lead with Goldsons header at a crucial stage of the match, and suffered from a little bit of inexperience and a lack of genuine quality.

At the goal, although late in the game, young McCrorie (who had a terrific game, incidentally) just loses his guy and fails to track back into the box fast enough. Split second stuff. Probably just tiredness as he’d run himself ragged. He’ll learn from that.

Also, our final ball was poor again from midfield and we got no decent supply to Alfredo. That’s not a new problem.

Lastly, Alfredo needs to learn as well as Middleton in particular threw three or four great crosses right across the edge of the six yard box. Alfredo needs to learn to take a chance and just get in there rather than waiting for a chance to land at his feet

So, a little inexperience and a lack of midfield quality caught us out. It’s still a massive leap forward from the past seasons.

And that’s not accepting that we shouldn’t want more. I do want more. I’m just not for throwing Gerrard and this current lot under the wheels of the bus.
 
we won before why not again, please explain why its never going to happen, pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me

Again, ignoring my posts.

If we ever win the UEFA cup it'll be down to a freak upturn in the fortunes of Scottish football, monetarily speaking. Unfortunately, and this might be hard for you to grasp, we can't compete with teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Napoli etc.
 
Again, ignoring my posts.

If we ever win the UEFA cup it'll be down to a freak upturn in the fortunes of Scottish football, monetarily speaking. Unfortunately, and this might be hard for you to grasp, we can't compete with teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Napoli etc.

There may be a whole dose of reality in that post, but, do you believe that is a mentality the club, manager, players and support should ever adopt at Rangers?

Should we go into these things with an "also-rans" state of mind?

Or should we think like (I feel) we always have historically that we are up there as one of the biggest clubs in the world and deserving of being on that platform and ready to fight with the belief and character of champions?

We know the resource/money gaps, we know the real world probabilities, but should we resign ourselves to it? Is that where we are forever more?
 
Unfortunately, and this might be hard for you to grasp, we can't compete with teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Napoli etc.
Nor indeed the 8th best team in Austria
And the bottom team in the spl with a man advantage.

The excuses being handed out for shit results is incredible

How long are we gonna keep using "but remember alloa six years ago" as the answer to ever shit performance
 
Nor indeed the 8th best team in Austria
And the bottom team in the spl with a man advantage.

The excuses being handed out for shit results is incredible

How long are we gonna keep using "but remember alloa six years ago" as the answer to ever shit performance
yep its getting f uckin boring
 
Again, ignoring my posts.

If we ever win the UEFA cup it'll be down to a freak upturn in the fortunes of Scottish football, monetarily speaking. Unfortunately, and this might be hard for you to grasp, we can't compete with teams like Arsenal, Chelsea, Napoli etc.
what if, and its a big if, they knock each other out and we coast to the final
 
There may be a whole dose of reality in that post, but, do you believe that is a mentality the club, manager, players and support should ever adopt at Rangers?

Should we go into these things with an "also-rans" state of mind?

Or should we think like (I feel) we always have historically that we are up there as one of the biggest clubs in the world and deserving of being on that platform and ready to fight with the belief and character of champions?

We know the resource/money gaps, we know the real world probabilities, but should we resign ourselves to it? Is that where we are forever more?
according to Sebo yes!, we will never win anything again so whats the point in trying
 
“I was there in the ground” = look how staunch I am travelling to Vienna, and my overtly negative opinion is therefore more important.

We didn’t have the quality tonight to win. To describe that as a disgusting and abject performance is just utter guff. Why do people have so much trouble differentiating between lack of quality and lack of effort?

How would you descrbe that performance last night?

Can't see anywhere in the op where he says his opinion is more important than the opinion of anyone else.
 
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There may be a whole dose of reality in that post, but, do you believe that is a mentality the club, manager, players and support should ever adopt at Rangers?

Should we go into these things with an "also-rans" state of mind?

Or should we think like (I feel) we always have historically that we are up there as one of the biggest clubs in the world and deserving of being on that platform and ready to fight with the belief and character of champions?

We know the resource/money gaps, we know the real world probabilities, but should we resign ourselves to it? Is that where we are forever more?

On your second paragraph, 100% not. You are spot on (which ties into my point in this entire thread, you've only picked up on my last post which is a result of trolling from Chatsu).

We should always aim (club/players/manager) and hope (us) to win everything we're a part of, but as supporters, we also need to be realistic with our expectations and judge the team accordingly. Just because we want our team to win the UEFA Cup that doesn't mean it's realistic and it also doesn't mean we should judge them as if it was realistic.

The OP said we're undermining our tradition of success because people are satisfied with the progress we've shown in Europe while still being disappointed at being put out. It's a lot of shîte.

Our expectations and parameters for success need to change along with the squad we have in front of us. We did very well to go as far as we did for the quality we possess along with a lot of other mitigating factors – but supporters are to be told they're 'undermining traditions' by acknowledging and commending the squad even though we didn't win the tournament?
 
ok got you, yes no one and i mean no one expected that outcome, im not arguing we should be expecting to win a european trophy into the future just "why not" does anyone one think SG has no dreams of winning one with us, i bet he does its in his DNA
Gerrard knows that he'll not win a European trophy with Rangers. He's intelligent enough to realise Rangers are not in the same league as the big teams of Europe
 
On your second paragraph, 100% not. You are spot on (which ties into my point in this entire thread, you've only picked up on my last post which is a result of trolling from Chatsu).

We should always aim (club/players/manager) and hope (us) to win everything we're a part of, but as supporters, we also need to be realistic with our expectations and judge the team accordingly. Just because we want our team to win the UEFA Cup that doesn't mean it's realistic and it also doesn't mean we should judge them as if it was realistic.

The OP said we're undermining our tradition of success because people are satisfied with the progress we've shown in Europe while still being disappointed at being put out. It's a lot of shîte.

Our expectations and parameters for success need to change along with the squad we have in front of us. We did very well to go as far as we did for the quality we possess along with a lot of other mitigating factors – but supporters are to be told they're 'undermining traditions' by acknowledging and commending the squad even though we didn't win the tournament?

I suppose where our opinions may diverge is that I don't think the harm is in us having unrealistic demands or expectations, I think it's in the board, manager and players' collective ability to handle them, even use them to drive for greater achievement.

We can obviously look at years gone by and compare the teams and the money and think we have to adapt our expectations.

However, I'd perhaps suggest that even in some of those days we were ultimately in the same position and going up against teams with far greater resources than us, who we were probably on paper going to get cuffed by. But we had a different mentality going in. We had belief and we had winners throughout the team and club, so we approached the games with a different mindset. Results might still not have gone our way, but the character of the team didn't shirk the howls of derision, it grew because of them.

You listen to former players like KT and RG and others talking about the pressure and the lack of room for error as a player "only as good as your next pass" - they loved it, they craved it, they miss it.

While the current team may be facing bigger financial gulfs than those guys did, the principle is the same really and what we lack is that character and mentality. IMHO.

There's a lot of footballing talent there, we see it in spates. But the heart?

I think the fans need to remain true to what we've always been and keep those demands at that level. No matter how unrealistic they may be at times, because ultimately that's how we'll find the players who have what it really takes if we're ever going to get back to the winning ways we had before.

Just my two cents.
 
Gerrard knows that he'll not win a European trophy with Rangers. He's intelligent enough to realise Rangers are not in the same league as the big teams of Europe
doesn't stop him trying does it, imagine the dressing room before the game ok guys we are f ucked and never going to win anything but go out there and give it your best, no chance
 
We expect too much from almost everyone who signs for us. Greg Docherty being the most ludicrous example and Steven Davis being the next.
im not sure i agree there Docherty could still turn out to be a very good signing, as for SD well i will reserve my judgement until i see him in a jersey and playing
 
im not sure i agree there Docherty could still turn out to be a very good signing, as for SD well i will reserve my judgement until i see him in a jersey and playing
I'm not writing Doc off m8, I am making the point that the expectations on here were off the scale. There was 50 plus pager with some proclaiming him the man to take us to 55. As I say ludicrous
 
I'm not writing Doc off m8, I am making the point that the expectations on here were off the scale. There was 50 plus pager with some proclaiming him the man to take us to 55. As I say ludicrous
ok got it, I guess its human nature to expect the best, particularly when it comes to a team and their players your passionate about, we all get a bit carried away at times
 
I was there today in the ground and was disgusted at the performance turned in by the team with the backing we have.

I don’t care where we were a year ago etc, if Caixinha was sacked yesterday I’d expect the team to fight for one another and play with purpose, something totally lacking in this side today.

The attitude of “look how far we’ve come”, something I heard numerous time at the whistle might seriously undermine our traditions and attitude of success, a total celebration of failure - we were absolutely abject tonight in all positions against a team that is below some “farm teams” (as a rapid fan called them). This constant attitude of “oh well we done well”’will seriously harm the culture of our great club - it needs fixed!
What a pile of f@cking nonsense. First of all Gerrard is rebuilding the playing side of the club with very limited funds, secondly getting this club a good, sound, run in Europe at the first time of asking is an achievement, whether you can see that or not. He's had one transfer window and has had to contend with a huge turnover of players, where exactly do you expect us to be at this moment in time given everything that the club has had to go through of which was no fault whatsover of the club.

We are now on our seventh manager since our problems began in 2012, (that includes McDowell as caretaker), so more than anything the club needs stability on the managerial side in order to rebuild the playing side. Give Gerrard the time to do his job instead of spouting a load of f@cking nonsense.
 
What a pile of f@cking nonsense. First of all Gerrard is rebuilding the playing side of the club with very limited funds, secondly getting this club a good, sound, run in Europe at the first time of asking is an achievement, whether you can see that or not. He's had one transfer window and has had to contend with a huge turnover of players, where exactly do you expect us to be at this moment in time given everything that the club has had to go through of which was no fault whatsover of the club.

We are now on our seventh manager since our problems began in 2012, (that includes McDowell as caretaker), so more than anything the club needs stability on the managerial side in order to rebuild the playing side. Give Gerrard the time to do his job instead of spouting a load of f@cking nonsense.
ok nice emotional response, but getting back to the facts were is the poster wrong about last nights performance
 
ok nice emotional response, but getting back to the facts were is the poster wrong about last nights performance
I'm speaking about the full situation at the club as it stands at the moment. Certainly we were the better team last night and it's disappointing to lose but maybe you and the OP should recognise exactly the job Gerrard has on his hands instead of being so critical over the loss. It's an achievement to have the run we had in the EL, maybe you should acknowledge that as such and accept that we have a lot to do to get back to the top.
As i've said let Gerrard do his job.
 
Some folk are still living in the glory days of the 90s and trying to hold up vastly inferior players to impossible standards. We have very little in the way of funds to bring new players in but even if we had a bottomless money pit, going out and buying in a brand new team doesn't mean automatic success; it took Man City 4 years to win the league from being taken over. Expecting massive improvement from a limited squad that's had no luck with injuries in the space of 5 months is delusional.



Good post sums up my feelings



And even in the 90s by and large we were crap in europe bar 1992/93 and 1998/99 and we had some world class players in every sqaud as well



This team has been flung together in 6 months



The european run will give the players something to learn from when we have a go at it again next season
 
I'm speaking about the full situation at the club as it stands at the moment. Certainly we were the better team last night and it's disappointing to lose but maybe you and the OP should recognise exactly the job Gerrard has on his hands instead of being so critical over the loss. It's an achievement to have the run we had in the EL, maybe you should acknowledge that as such and accept that we have a lot to do to get back to the top.
As i've said let Gerrard do his job.
what? who is saying SG shouldn't be allowed to do his job, dont see the relevance to your initial post, the point the OP is making is that we cannot and indeed should not make excuses for sub performances by the team by continually referencing our plight in the past, it does no one any good, we are were we are and the bottom line is we should be in the last 32 only reason we are not is due to crap performances by the team
 
what? who is saying SG shouldn't be allowed to do his job, dont see the relevance to your initial post, the point the OP is making is that we cannot and indeed should not make excuses for sub performances by the team by continually referencing our plight in the past, it does no one any good, we are were we are and the bottom line is we should be in the last 32 only reason we are not is due to crap performances by the team

But there's a reason for the "crap performances".

It's because we don't have the sufficient quality of player, which is primarily due to the past 7 years. There's no escaping the past and what was done to the Club and the squad. It'll take time to emerge from that and certainly more than one transfer window.
 
So how did they become it then? By a team immediately going out and smashing and winning everything in our path. We've been set back sure, but %^*& sake take in to account the positives. I'm not saying it's good enough, not at all, but right now WE are not good enough. I get the impatience, everyone is in the same boat, but whether you like it or not, it's not a quick fix.

What are the positives then?
 
what? who is saying SG shouldn't be allowed to do his job, dont see the relevance to your initial post, the point the OP is making is that we cannot and indeed should not make excuses for sub performances by the team by continually referencing our plight in the past, it does no one any good, we are were we are and the bottom line is we should be in the last 32 only reason we are not is due to crap performances by the team
You're right, we are where we are and people should realise the rebuild Gerrard has on his hands instead of continually being critical of the team and therefore, by association, Gerrard. Btw, our problems of the past 6 years or so is still having a major impact on the club so i would think it's very relevant. Anyway i'll say no more on it, but rather look ahead.
 
But there's a reason for the "crap performances".

It's because we don't have the sufficient quality of player, which is primarily due to the past 7 years. There's no escaping the past and what was done to the Club and the squad. It'll take time to emerge from that and certainly more than one transfer window.
nope due to last 2 years and awful management and recruitement policies
 
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