Should we be asking to furlough?

Finnieboy

Finnieboy

Well-Known Member
I know we should try and be above doing this but with the mentally challengeds now possibly only having to pay their non playing staff 20% wages they are again gaining a financial advantage as we continue to pay the full wage which of course is the right thing to do. You couldnt mark their neck with a blow torch.

Its also astonishing that hardly any criticism has come their way like some of the elite clubs in England. I shouldnt be surprised though with the compliant mhedia up here. Its beyond sickening.

I hate to say it but should we not also be taking up this option? But if we do then just wait and see the onslaught from the mhedia begin.

It really is a case of a rock & a hard place in these worrying and uncertain times.
 
Yes I'd say so.

The UK tax rate is shockingly high, rangers have given the government millions upon millions upon millions since we were formed.

If it helps us keep afloat, keep performing in Europe ect then it'll only benefit the economy in the end up.

Rangers is an institution. The government should see it as investment.
 
madride said:
I don’t think any decisions we make on this should or will be influenced by anything that mob do
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Exactly how it should be.
We should be better than that and better than them.
We should actively avoid it.
And when this blows over we should be calling out the clear fact people like Sutton are being told what to say on national channels by Celtic.
 
Finnieboy said:
I know we should try and be above doing this but with the mentally challengeds now possibly only having to pay their non playing staff 20% wages they are again gaining a financial advantage as we continue to pay the full wage which of course is the right thing to do. You couldnt mark their neck with a blow torch.

Its also astonishing that hardly any criticism has come their way like some of the elite clubs in England. I shouldnt be surprised though with the compliant mhedia up here. Its beyond sickening.

I hate to say it but should we not also be taking up this option? But if we do then just wait and see the onslaught from the mhedia begin.

It really is a case of a rock & a hard place in these worrying and uncertain times.
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I will have no problem with our club using this scheme as long as the players take a hit on their salaries as well.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this scenario is not getting worked on right now and announced next week.

If it doesn’t happen it may well be that we have business continuity insurance that fully covers this pandemic (like Dundee).
 
Finnieboy said:
I know we should try and be above doing this but with the mentally challengeds now possibly only having to pay their non playing staff 20% wages they are again gaining a financial advantage as we continue to pay the full wage which of course is the right thing to do. You couldnt mark their neck with a blow torch.

Its also astonishing that hardly any criticism has come their way like some of the elite clubs in England. I shouldnt be surprised though with the compliant mhedia up here. Its beyond sickening.

I hate to say it but should we not also be taking up this option? But if we do then just wait and see the onslaught from the mhedia begin.

It really is a case of a rock & a hard place in these worrying and uncertain times.
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We may already have done it. Rangers don't have to advertise the fact do they?
 
I would like to see players take some kind of cut first even if a token 20% reduction or something.

Don't agree with folk saying only of it's to protect jobs though. The government are asking people to stay at home. They cant go into work. I can only assume with no playing staff to look after or matches to organise only a skeleton staff of WFH will be required.

The scheme is not designed for companies to run themselves into the ground and then only use ot when they are on their last legs.
 
This scheme is not a freebie and is designed to save jobs and protect the economy. Where businesses cannot operate on a remote basis and would ordinarily release/payoff staff this scheme is here to protect these jobs. It is not intended to allow employers to defray an element of their payroll at the expense of taxpayers.

As for the club. I would like to think that negotiations are ongoing with players to accept a reduced salary, not deferred, initially until the end of June. This allowing all other employees to be paid in full by the club.

I hope that our silence to date is due to negotiations and that we will show a moral lead that has been lacking from other clubs.
 
Grant K said:
This scheme is not a freebie and is designed to save jobs and protect the economy. Where businesses cannot operate on a remote basis and would ordinarily release/payoff staff this scheme is here to protect these jobs. It is not intended to allow employers to defray an element of their payroll at the expense of taxpayers.

As for the club. I would like to think that negotiations are ongoing with players to accept a reduced salary, not deferred, initially until the end of June. This allowing all other employees to be paid in full by the club.

I hope that our silence to date is due to negotiations and that we will show a moral lead that has been lacking from other clubs.
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Are you saying that it’s means tested?
 
If there are people who have no work they can do whilst following the Governments instructions on social distancing and are staying at home then yes, absolutely.

That goes for every other business in the UK.

So long as the employees fulfill the criteria, and do not do anything for the business whilst on furlough then there is no issue with that.

Why should Rangers not be the same as every other company in the UK.
 
cooprfc said:
Only if it's going to protect jobs.

If we can otherwise afford to pay staff then no.

It's not just free money.
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Correct.
For cash rich clubs to furlough staff is a feckin joke.
If your running out of money and would otherwise NEED to make them redundant then fair enough.
Here's the thing, every single one of us will have to pay for every single person furloughed. Think about that. I'm lucky enough that my job doesn't get impacted by this(well not immediately) but I don't want to be paying an extra penny in income tax to pay for someone WHO DIDN'T NEED TO BE FURLOUGHED!
 
Must be close. I assume a pay cut for the players and furlough for the non playing staff will come next week. Sad but inevitable.
 
android said:
I will have no problem with our club using this scheme as long as the players take a hit on their salaries as well.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this scenario is not getting worked on right now and announced next week.

If it doesn’t happen it may well be that we have business continuity insurance that fully covers this pandemic (like Dundee).
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Interesting point re continuity insurance. Hadn’t considered that although I do understand only a handful of clubs throughout Scotland have this.
 
Virgil Hilts said:
Are you saying that it’s means tested?
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No I’m not! It is there to protect jobs and should be a default position once all other options have been exhausted. Football in general should be looking at the bigger picture and taking actions that enable cash flows to be opened, like opening the transfer window. It is not for cash rich businesses to protect their bank balances or to enable a two tier structure towards wage payment.
 
A1bertz said:
Correct.
For cash rich clubs to furlough staff is a feckin joke.
If your running out of money and would otherwise NEED to make them redundant then fair enough.
Here's the thing, every single one of us will have to pay for every single person furloughed. Think about that. I'm lucky enough that my job doesn't get impacted by this(well not immediately) but I don't want to be paying an extra penny in income tax to pay for someone WHO DIDN'T NEED TO BE FURLOUGHED!
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I wanted to like this three times but it wouldn't let me,Common sense must be applied.
 
Arkanoid said:
Directors turn debt into shares.
Financial institutions? Who is this, do you mean our credit facility with Close Brothers
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The last accounts mention a £3m commercial loan, separate from the unsecured loans from the investors, I have no idea if it has been paid off.

They also mention that there are no other banking facilities.
 
Arkanoid said:
Directors turn debt into shares.
Financial institutions? Who is this, do you mean our credit facility with Close Brothers
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Yes

and while the director loans can become equity the very fact they are needed to fund the business more than suggests we should be applying for these government funds
 
It makes sense too, we are no different to any other club at the moment with nothing coming in but wages still going out.
 
Tbh i thought we would have done it by now for the non playing staff and asked the players to take a pay cut unless someone else is funding them
 
Should have already, can’t even suggest what staff are doing at this stage that will add any value?
 
Hmm. Just heard the Aberdeen CEO on Radio Scotland. Interesting comments on furloughing from the Sheep guy. Their legal advice is that they cannot furlough the players because they are staying fit and uploading their daily data to a database for review by the Sports Science guys. Players are also telephoning vulnerable fans. Both classed as work so not eligible for furlough. There's a cat amongst the pigeons.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Hmm. Just heard the Aberdeen CEO on Radio Scotland. Interesting comments on furloughing from the Sheep guy. Their legal advice is that they cannot furlough the players because they are staying fit and uploading their daily data to a database for review by the Sports Science guys. Players are also telephoning vulnerable fans. Both classed as work so not eligible for furlough. There's a cat amongst the pigeons.
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It's not really a cat amongst the pigeons, mate.

On of the rules is that the person cannot do anything on behalf of the business.

"To be eligible for the grant, when on furlough, an employee cannot undertake work for, or on behalf, of the organisation. This includes providing services or generating revenue. "
 
Greebo said:
Hopefully they are sitting at home, keeping themselves safe and helping to stop this disease spreading.
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Hopefully they’re doing work though if they’re being paid, if not then not applying for furlough doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Hmm. Just heard the Aberdeen CEO on Radio Scotland. Interesting comments on furloughing from the Sheep guy. Their legal advice is that they cannot furlough the players because they are staying fit and uploading their daily data to a database for review by the Sports Science guys. Players are also telephoning vulnerable fans. Both classed as work so not eligible for furlough. There's a cat amongst the pigeons.
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Give them an optional training plan, anyone who returns unfit will be bombed out team. Sorted.
 
RoboProd said:
Hopefully they’re doing work though if they’re being paid, if not then not applying for furlough doesn’t make sense to me.
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I couldn't agree more, why should Rangers be different from any other business.

The idea that businesses should spend all of their money before doing this totally misses the point of the scheme.
 
Greebo said:
It's not really a cat amongst the pigeons, mate.

On of the rules is that the person cannot do anything on behalf of the business.

"To be eligible for the grant, when on furlough, an employee cannot undertake work for, or on behalf, of the organisation. This includes providing services or generating revenue. "
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I'm sure it will be for those clubs who've furloughed players. Are they not asking these guys to keep fit, for example? Even making phone calls to season ticket holders? That's classed as 'work' according to the Sheep CEO. I'm no lawyer though.
 
Super A said:
Yes

and while the director loans can become equity the very fact they are needed to fund the business more than suggests we should be applying for these government funds
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So we should be paying Kent and Morelos the guts of 50k per week whilst Maggie from the Ticket Office on a zero hour contract on £8.50 per hour should be furloghed. I think you've got your trousers on back to front
 
I would be very happy to see -

1.The players & management team offering a 30% reduction in their salaries.

2.The club claiming the 80% Furlough for normal employees but then topping it up to 100% from 1. above.

3.Im fine with any balance of these being committed to the NHS, but acknowledge that things are tough for the club.
 
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