SNP government in secrecy row over football sectarianism report
- Thread starter The Matador
- Start date
RWL12
Well-Known Member
It isnt petty. Rangers fans don't want to be favoured, we just want parity
hammer-time
Well-Known Member
So they mention McInnes getting the sad Orange B treatment from the tramps but don't talk about Stevie G's sectarianSNP Government in secrecy row over football sectarianism report
Exclusive by Paul HutcheonPolitics and Investigations Editor, Herald on Sunday
EXCLUSIVE
Humza Yousaf. Pic Gordon Terris/The Herald
The Scottish Government is at the centre of a secrecy row over a dossier which lays bare the scale of sectarianism at football matches.
Ministers are refusing to publish nearly two years of data on “unacceptable conduct” in football grounds by claiming it is confidential.
The SNP administration believes the public interest is served by withholding data that was provided by the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL).
Nil By Mouth, an anti-sectarianism charity, has now lodged an appeal with the Scottish Information Commissioner to have the figures released.
READ MORE: Hiding sectarianism statistics makes football fans less safe
They have accused the SPFL of 'going to any lengths' to ensure there isn't the necessary transparency and said it was a law unto itself.
Liberal Democrat MSP Liam McArthur said: “Sectarianism is poisoning Scottish football. Secrecy isn’t the answer. This data needs to be released immediately.”
Football clubs are being urged to take firm action against sectarian abuse that has been directed against fans, players and managers.
In February, the then Kilmarnock manager Steve Clarke, responding to chants of “sad 19th Century Terrorist b******” that echoed around Ibrox, said it was reminiscent of the “Dark Ages”.
Derek McInnes, the Aberdeen manager, also hit out after he said Celtic fans had branded him a “sad Orange b******” during a Scottish Cup semi-final.
He said: "They'll keep continuing to sing their songs because we don't have the leadership in this country to deal with it.”
However, the spotlight has now shifted to the records of bad behaviour collated by the SPFL, which runs the top four leagues in Scotland, and shared with the Government.
In 2017, academic Dr Duncan Morrow recommended a monitoring system in his progress report for the Government on tackling sectarianism.
“The outcomes of robust monitoring and evaluation on this basis should be published annually to allow for a genuine debate about the extent of sectarian behaviour and attitudes in football, its impact on culture and the effectiveness of measures to reduce it, and to help further reviews,” he wrote.
Paul Hutcheon: the Smith Commission has been bad for Scotland
In May, the Government informed McArthur that the football authorities had collected the data on “unacceptable conduct”, which is wider than sectarianism, from the start of the 2017/18 season.
Justice Secretary Humza Yousaf wrote that the “baseline” information was shared with the Government and Police Scotland “in confidence”, at the request of the football authorities.
After Nil By Mouth, one of the country’s top anti-discrimination charities, tabled requests under freedom of information legislation, the charity was refused the figures by the SNP Government.
Officials said releasing the data would be an “actionable breach of confidence” because the information was obtained from the SPFL.
They added that the information was provided in circumstances which “imposed an obligation” on the Government to “maintain that confidentiality”.
Civil servants also claimed that releasing it would undermine the SPFL’s trust in the Government, adding that the “public interest lies in favour of upholding the exemption”.
Dave Scott, the campaigns director at Nil By Mouth, pointed the finger at the SPFL for the secrecy conditions.
“Scottish football thinks it is a law unto itself and despite the investment of millions of pounds of public money into the game over recent years the SPFL seems to feel it doesn’t have to be publicly accountable. Duncan Morrow’s report called for football to be transparent in its dealings on this issue and it’s clear that the SPFL will go to any lengths to ensure this isn’t the case.
“Government and Parliament can’t allow the SPFL to call the shots and if the commissioner finds in our favour we will be contacting Holyrood’s Health and SportCommittee asking it to undertake an investigation into the report’s findings allowing a cross party group of MSPs to fully question the SPFL in public session.”
He added: “For too long the SPFL has operated its own system of ‘self-regulation’ where no one is ever held to account and the issue of bigotry is swept under the carpet. As a direct result the problem of sectarianism within the game festers with a third of all Scottish Premier League
Managers speaking out in recent months about repeated instances of sectarian abuse toward them, at games.
“The SPFL cannot be allowed to dodge, deflect and deny its way out of its responsibilities the problem and we are confident the Commissioner will rule publication to be firmly in the public interest.”
READ MORE: Groups tackling ‘toxic bigotry’ of sectarianism to share £530,000
Labour MSP James Kelly said: "The SPFL and the Scottish Government should be up front and open when it comes to the levels of unacceptable conduct being recorded in football stadiums.
"Without this transparency not only are we unable to view a clear picture of the scale of the problem, but we have little idea of what individual incidents are being classed as such.”
Scottish Tory MSP Donald Cameron said: “There’s no point in having Freedom of Information laws if data like this is kept secret. It’s yet another example of the SNP trying to do government behind closed doors.
“What’s also concerning is that such secrecy and obstruction just serves to heighten suspicion about what’s being kept under wraps.
“In fact, Scottish football fans are among the best behaved in the world, and the authorities should therefore have nothing to fear from releasing this information.”
The BBC reported earlier this year that a number of match delegates – employed by the SPFL – had spoken of their frustration that no action was being taken about sectarian incidents.
"It was so frustrating," said one former delegate. "It seems like the Scottish Professional Football League is content to sweep the issue under the carpet."
A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “Our strong preference was, and remains, that SPFL should make the data publicly available. However, the information has been provided to us on the condition that it was in confidence.
“That followed discussions between the Scottish Government, Scottish FA, SPFL, Police Scotland and other stakeholders, where the football authorities agreed to collate data on unacceptable conduct in Scottish football for the first time from the start of the 2017-18 season – but on the condition that it remained confidential.”
This newspaper asked the SPFL whether they would agree to publish the information. An SPFL spokesman responded: “We absolutely condemn all forms of unacceptable conduct at SPFL matches. Our focus is on supporting the extensive work that our clubs and the police do to identify and punish the small minority of individuals who engage in this type of dangerous behaviour. “
abuse from the tramps or the abuse to Jimmy Bell.
They mention us and Clarke giving the impression we dish it out but our fans /management aren't subjected to sectarian abuse at football matches.
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mad4rfcme
Well-Known Member
Same thing as they do with big bad Westminster.
borderbluenose
Well-Known Member
Subliminal messages trying to reflect us as Big bad the same way the report suggested the kitmans was not a beast bet the cant down south was
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Well we do 100% know that Hugh Birt was hounded out, so why wouldn’t they threaten others ?
It really is the biggest thing in Scottish football at the moment. Isn't it? Can't think of any other scandals...
Had we been the bad guys this would be out by now.
I'm guessing the mentally challengeds didn't come out of it quite as rosey as the SNP administration would have liked.
If we had clearly been shown to be the worst offenders there is no doubt it would be getting serialised in every paper with special BBC Scotland and STV programmes on it.
Anyway, what is a few thousand guys singing a fairly juvenile song at fitba managers compared to half a century of child rape by a paedophile ring at the Knew Camp?
That's the REAL issue in Scottish fitba.
If we had clearly been shown to be the worst offenders there is no doubt it would be getting serialised in every paper with special BBC Scotland and STV programmes on it.
Anyway, what is a few thousand guys singing a fairly juvenile song at fitba managers compared to half a century of child rape by a paedophile ring at the Knew Camp?
That's the REAL issue in Scottish fitba.
Gibraltar Loyal
Well-Known Member
Their arrogance will be their downfall
RangersForever
Well-Known Member
What's the makeup of the Nil By Mouth organisation in terms of numbers and religion, and any members who are known to support specific clubs.
There are very few genuine neutrals in Scotland so would help if we had information showing that Nil By Mouth are just an anti-Rangers quango.
There are very few genuine neutrals in Scotland so would help if we had information showing that Nil By Mouth are just an anti-Rangers quango.
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
GFT I’d suggest they be called. Government Funded Tims I believe.
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
Bang on the money. The SNP are unfit to govern.
deedle
Well-Known Member
NBM is now mainly David Scott, who was born in Northern Ireland. Not one of us.
deedle
Well-Known Member
We have to be wary of how stories like this emerge. The Herald is basically giving NBM free publicity.
It isn't a 'report', but a dossier listing 'unacceptable conduct' at Scottish football matches. This covers a much wider area than sectarianism.
It would be naïve to assume that groups like NBM haven't been told the headline figures, given the Scottish government knows.
Any increase in misconduct will be pounced on as another reason to introduce 'strict liability' and maintain funding to NBM.
It isn't a 'report', but a dossier listing 'unacceptable conduct' at Scottish football matches. This covers a much wider area than sectarianism.
It would be naïve to assume that groups like NBM haven't been told the headline figures, given the Scottish government knows.
Any increase in misconduct will be pounced on as another reason to introduce 'strict liability' and maintain funding to NBM.
Exactly this it is a self serving exercise in ensuring funding remains in place and to pave the way fro some form of strict liability which is NBM's ultimate goal. Turkeys don't vote for xmas.
Political sectarianism i.e support of worldwide terrorism will be deemed as acceptable and voicing your opinion on a man from Rome will not be. 21st century educational apartheid based on religious grounds is perfectly acceptable. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.
We simply boycott all away games and let it be the survival of the fittest.
They need us more than we need them.
Let’s see how strict their financial diligence is and how big a liability that creates for them.
We have no friends in the game. We don’t need any
They need us more than we need them.
Let’s see how strict their financial diligence is and how big a liability that creates for them.
We have no friends in the game. We don’t need any
How predictable of the record to have a picture at the headline showing 95% rangers fans outside Ibrox
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Not sure I agree LTD. These guys use every excuse to kick us & if that comes to taking points off of us if needed I won’t be surprised mate.
Bear all
Well-Known Member
When it happens to Lennon he is always the victim, they don't miss any opportunity to pass comment on it and neither should we.Where are all the do gooders who love to support Lennon in his perpetual victim status when it cones to our Club that's Gerrard, Jimmy Bell all being subject to sectarian abuse ,did NBM comment or was it that old chestnut they weren't asked .
weetam3106
Well-Known Member
I would bet that this report clearly highlights the paedo chants and mentions the Celtic child sex abuse cases. If that is so then its released by Government then it would put pressure on Humza useless to comment on it.
The report probably also goes into detail about the pro IRA chants and the offence created by Celtic FC.
Neither of these issues will be allowed to go public with a government stamp on them.
The SNP like to present themselves as being progressive and open, but the reality is far more sinister and dark.
The report probably also goes into detail about the pro IRA chants and the offence created by Celtic FC.
Neither of these issues will be allowed to go public with a government stamp on them.
The SNP like to present themselves as being progressive and open, but the reality is far more sinister and dark.
The Double A Man
Well-Known Member
If that's really the case then by all means 'call it out' by any way possible.This needs a wider audience, for example down south.Just imagine the Westminster Government trying to protect a single club in England there would quite rightly be uproar.
Sam English
Well-Known Member
My thoughts exactly !
Superrangers
Well-Known Member
There would be a national enquiry about it.
Actually, he's in the job to be a high profile ethnic minority face, first and foremost. His competence is irrelevant, by any objective ability measure he would have been sacked long ago.
This comment will probably get some boos, but it is the truth, and we all know it. Another lie we have to live and indulge in modern Scotland.
Legasov Loyal.
Nations mean nothing now there is no homogeneity, family then tribe is all that matters. BTW, all the rest have been doing this for centuries, time we cottoned on.
The Double A Man
Well-Known Member
No boo's from me mate.He's so one sided I'm surprised he hasn't fallen over before now.The main surprise is that it appears to be only Rangers supporters who can see this.What are the rest of the non SNP supporters thinking especially those in the shortbread assembly.
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct RB !!
Bear all
Well-Known Member
They need the Catholic vote yet in the meantime the rest of the Country can go f#ck itself,SNP rely on their anti Protestant stance as being seen as Anti Rangers so know one gives a damn but that's far from what's happening here .
Foddo Foddo
Well-Known Member
I’m thinking maybe a bit of the opposite from you and others in here. If it is a damning report on the tramps then I’d doubt NBM would be pushing for it to be published. Or am I wrong in this assertion?
Southside_shug
Well-Known Member
As I continually no debate in Scotland regarding Sectarianism has any validity without the separatist schooling being brought top the table.
One Scotland, many Cultures.....unless you are a White Anglo Saxon Protestant
One Scotland, many Cultures.....unless you are a White Anglo Saxon Protestant
Britvic55
Well-Known Member
I think it depends who's seen the report, or has at least been briefed as to the contents.
If NBM know nothing about the contents then they will be desperate to see it. If they have been only partially briefed they will still be desperate to see the contents.
Who do we think has seen the report in it's entirety? SPFL, the Justice Minister, the First Minister. Who else?
The Lord Advocate , PS, SFA, CFC?
And more worryingly, who do we think has been denied access?
Also, who within the SPFL and SFA will be privy to the contents?
jweebear
Well-Known Member
His ethnicity without doubt got doors opened for him, he was Transport Ministers and fecked that up. But his transfer to Justice Minister was a particularly contrived choice, who better than an avid Tim covering them and their back's.
wee bud's pit boots
Well-Known Member
If you haven't sussed by now, I think you are quite naïve.
Rangers, (Murray and Renfield) in particular are to blame for their negligence.
November 2000, NBM brought Cara Henderson to Ibrox for an OF match, were of course you are going to hear the Rangers support giving it laldy. - That's just the way it is.
So it was reported, that Cara, in the main stand at Ibrox was subjected to anti-sellik/kafflik/irish hatred.
But this sham had been formed a good few months earlier, so the question has to be; Why was Cara not taken to the main stand of the scum hut three months earlier, when she would have heard the same 'bigotry' but in reverse?
Not a word from these vermin about the abuse of Kris Boyd, but when the 'Cheer up Stevie Clarke' chant was chanted a 'James Hunt' from that farce of an organisation was talking about how ''WE might need to think about Strict Liability''
Our club should have been on this sham's case from day one.
And online petitions to have our stadium shut down.
That's the power of the block vote.
If nbm are pushing for this to be published then you can be sure there will be plenty about Rangers and sectarianism in the report. It’s how this sham organisation exist.
The report must have something in it that the snp don’t want published and off the top of my head I can only think it’s about the paedo ring at the scumhut that the nationalists refuse to have an enquiry about. %^*& they won’t even acknowledge it.
This report isn’t just about sectarian chants.
The report must have something in it that the snp don’t want published and off the top of my head I can only think it’s about the paedo ring at the scumhut that the nationalists refuse to have an enquiry about. %^*& they won’t even acknowledge it.
This report isn’t just about sectarian chants.
AlbieSpooner
New Member
Hopeless Humza strikes again
Ponientebear
Well-Known Member
Or they could be pushing it to justify the funding the useless b’stards receive by showing sectarian behaviour is still very relevant in this country.
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Ponientebear
Well-Known Member
Again as someone pointed out it’s doubtful NBM have even seen this report and simply want it published to keep them relevant.Yes but the bar stewards always seem to do that in one consistent direction PB
Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Good point mate.
