Souness on signing Johnston and leaving Ibrox

whitbyontbear said:
I seem to remember reading that after Souness signed Johnston, The players were asked, in the dressing room what they thought of it. Seemingly, Coop retorted "He shouldnae be here" and was packed off to Motherwell the next day.
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This is the sort of shite judas loves spouting.
 
Kent's agent said:
Think Hugh Burns was one
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whitbyontbear said:
I seem to remember reading that after Souness signed Johnston, The players were asked, in the dressing room what they thought of it. Seemingly, Coop retorted "He shouldnae be here" and was packed off to Motherwell the next day.
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WTF is the matter with some people? Burns was long gone, he left in 87, I cant even remember him ever playing for Souness either.

As for Cooper, he was in the training camp with Johnston, not packed off to Well the next day!

The beggars make up enough stories with out 'bears' helping them.
 
SDF said:
Coop was still there when Johnston arrived. There's a squad photo at Il Ciocco and he's in it with Johnston.
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Coop would have played with Johnston for Scotland and maybe even shared a room on international duty i doubt he wouldn't have been welcoming to him.
 
Souness trying to sell a book by telling porkies... and people are falling for it..
Also like to remind those that think SDM STARTED IT ALL... HE DIDNT. BUT HE NEAR F UKING ENDED IT ALL
 
insanicdrunk said:
WTF is the matter with some people? Burns was long gone, he left in 87, I cant even remember him ever playing for Souness either.

As for Cooper, he was in the training camp with Johnston, not packed off to Well the next day!

The beggars make up enough stories with out 'bears' helping them.
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Personally I try not to reply to stuff that basically gives life on here to Filth lies.
Ignoring it hopefully diminishes it.
Sadly many of our own cannot help themselves from repeating it.
Perhaps they shouldn't be reading Filth forums?
 
I like Souness but not his bugging up of Stein. Saying Stein would be the one raking the lead over Shanks & Busby and general how good he was. Maybe it's just me.

Also always thought it was strange that he said anyone not accepting Mojo would be sold. A few months later Coops gone on to star for Motherwell were he played some of his best football especially in 91. Again, maybe just me.
 
deedle said:
Given the drop in attendance at Roman Catholic Churches over the past two or three decades, a cynic might be forgiven for concluding that the main purpose of denominational schools in Scotland nowadays is to turn out Celtic supporters.

People like Murray and Souness saw the Johnston signing in very simplistic terms - perhaps because they didn't come from the west of the central belt. Despite all the arguments given by jornalists previously, it didn't really change anything about the rivalry between the clubs or sectarianism in general.

There is a good point above about the treatment of Mark Walters showing that their so-called moral superiority was just a charade. One episode that is in danger of being forgotten was Ian Archer's comment about Walter's transfer fee - 'that's a lot of bananas'.

So much for that sanctimonious hypocrite!
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Devine admitted recently that Catholic schools exist to create cultural Catholics more than anything nowadays. One would reasonably consider supporting Celtic as part of the cultural identity of any WoS Catholic. The educational angle really wasn't one that Archer et al ever tried to pursue when blaming Rangers for creating a religious schism in society - the chutzpah is something else.

Murray (a man who admitted to never having had a night out in Glasgow) and Souness (brought up in Edinburgh and moving to London aged 17) were perhaps not the right people to take on this cultural battle. The club has never formed a coherent strategy since the 1960's to deal with identity, culture and its place in Scottish society.

In January 1988, there was one solitary letter in the Herald in condemnation of Celtic (though the writer immediately condemned Rangers 'for not contributing to social harmony'). This was responded to with a snide and barely credible letter from a Celtic fan who claimed Walters had only been abused like everyone else and that the abuse had stopped once Celtic fans realised he would be no threat to their team.

The bananas thrown at Tynecastle two weeks later were met with slightly more correspondence. Incredibly, one letter focused on Rangers 'bad sportsmanship', tackles by Souness and was allowed to finish with the line 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, or bananas!' Another letter focused on tackles by Souness in the game whilst the third asked 'what right do Rangers have to protest about bigotry?' In other words, Rangers should say nothing about one of their players being racially abused because they're Rangers and deserve it, presumably.

And that was the analysis of the biggest displays of racist abuse ever seen in Scottish football. Yet the Herald, and others, had spent the previous two decades painting Rangers as the sole contributor to social ills in Scotland. In fact, the club had been under siege as a relentless campaign from the increasingly confident RC middle class and the left-leaning Protestant middle class took place. It was a mixture of sectarianism and snobbery. The club is still living with the effects of that two-pronged strategy across the media and political establishment. The Walters incident was an open and shut case of extreme racism from the supposedly left-wing, anti-racist Celtic support yet it's largely been forgotten about in Scottish sport history.
 
hootsmon said:
Big Woods is standing there not having a clue what's going on.
Mr Holmes put that character in his place.
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This sums it all up for me.
The hysteria regarding the religion of the players we signed was very much a construct of the media and the press who fed upon it like hungry wolves.

It had never been an issue for our club until events in the early twentieth century saw the communities in Scotland driven apart very much at the insistence of the Roman Catholic Church, (Their agenda for their own reason and which they pursue to this day like the mad religious zealots they have always been.) which was exacerbated by mistrust following (The stab in the back?) Easter rising during WWI.

The separation of children in schools certainly made it difficult for Rangers to chase RC players, and besides why bother, Scottish clubs in those days only signed local players, and for Rangers we had the pick of the huge Protestant crop.
Of course for Celtc, their local base was truly far more limited and they could never enjoy our largesse of selection, but still they tried to limit the Prods and indeed suffered calamitously for it.

I have always said, between WWI and the 1960's when Jock Stein exclaimed 'They don't sign Catholics', exactly which great Roman Catholic Scots did Rangers miss out on?
I personally can only identify Jimmy McGrory and let us be honest, we would have had more chance of signing a Pope.

It is a huge bubble of shyte blown up over the years to make the club feel guilty about a matter that carried as much significant social weight as gender equality does in the modern western world.
 
Coops4 said:
To move on to the 2/3 biggest job in England after Manutd.
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Of course his stock was high, where else would he move on to?
He was at the time relived to take the job, after all it was another home to him, a place of safety and familiarity.
However, the reasons that drove him from Ibrox, were reasons that unbeknown to him, he would carry to Liverpool.
The man was dying from heart disease ....ffsake!
 
Coops4 said:
I like Souness but not his bugging up of Stein. Saying Stein would be the one raking the lead over Shanks & Busby and general how good he was. Maybe it's just me.
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It's an interesting hypothetical as to what would have happened if Stein had lived. Souness did look up to him and would definitely have listened to his advice when he managed Rangers. I'm not convinced it would have all been to our benefit. Stein had a lot of strange ideas about Rangers (which probably all related to psychological issues with his own father, a Rangers fan), was positively obsessed by us, and would have tried to fill Souness' head with them. Souness has mellowed a lot in recent years and talks in almost apologetic terms about some things in his time at Rangers (he hardly defended the club at all in 2012). He may well have got to that stage earlier if Stein had lived!
 
Coops4 said:
To move on to the 2/3 biggest job in England after Manutd.
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Liverpool were still a bigger draw than Man Utd in 1991.

Liverpool finished 2nd and won the title 4 of the previous 7 seasons . Man Utd were 6th and at 24 years and counting.

That's before you take into account Souness' feelings for them as a club considering he played there for six years.
 
Taki said:
It's an interesting hypothetical as to what would have happened if Stein had lived. Souness did look up to him and would definitely have listened to his advice when he managed Rangers. I'm not convinced it would have all been to our benefit. Stein had a lot of strange ideas about Rangers (which probably all related to psychological issues with his own father, a Rangers fan), was positively obsessed by us, and would have tried to fill Souness' head with them. Souness has mellowed a lot in recent years and talks in almost apologetic terms about some things in his time at Rangers (he hardly defended the club at all in 2012). He may well have got to that stage earlier if Stein had lived!
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Jock Stein was indeed a strange man.
I never had any time for him as I grew up during his tenure at The Filth.
He certainly was good at his job, and was lucky enough to come to The Filth at a time when Scotland was producing some of the best players in Europe in an almost industrial scale.

His ideas were in tune with the period, much as Scot Symon's were perhaps falling behind the times.
It should be remembered that Scot was in the fifties viewed as a modern manager ahead of his time.
Maybe in life it is always a matter of timing?
Had Stein been the Rangers manager in the sixties, he maybe wouldn't have won just the single European Cup.

But for Stein, he was a hugely talented man, forced into proving his fame at a club that his own father didn't care for one bit.
One for Freud no doubt? :D
 
bilkobear said:
Jock Stein was indeed a strange man.
I never had any time for him as I grew up during his tenure at The Filth.
He certainly was good at his job, and was lucky enough to come to The Filth at a time when Scotland was producing some of the best players in Europe in an almost industrial scale.

His ideas were in tune with the period, much as Scot Symon's were perhaps falling behind the times.
It should be remembered that Scot was in the fifties viewed as a modern manager ahead of his time.
Maybe in life it is always a matter of timing?
Had Stein been the Rangers manager in the sixties, he maybe wouldn't have won just the single European Cup.

But for Stein, he was a hugely talented man, forced into proving his fame at a club that his own father didn't care for one bit.
One for Freud no doubt? :D
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I think so, Bilko. His best friend never spoke to him again either. You don't piss off your family and friends unless you're a bit eccentric yourself. His world seemed to revolve around Rangers.

I wasn't of that era, Bilko, but I'm sure it was also of benefit to him that the great Rangers team of the early 1960's was reaching the end of the line for a few of them by the time Stein showed up at the Piggery. The sale of Baxter just put the tin lid on it. I'm not convinced he would have been as successful in the early 1960's even with his superior methods over Symon. It's all about players, fundamentally.

I wonder if the Yahoos would have called for him again as we started to take off. It's all hypotheticals. I'm just glad he didn't have an 'in' to the managers office under Souness.
 
Coops was done as a Ranger. He no longer had the legs for the wide left role. He went to Motherwell as a central mid. Quite possibly going on to win them the Scottish cup in that role. That's not a mark on him, he was still a great player...better than most.
 
scottylad72 said:
Coops was done as a Ranger. He no longer had the legs for the wide left role. He went to Motherwell as a central mid. Quite possibly going on to win them the Scottish cup in that role. That's not a mark on him, he was still a great player...better than most.
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Davie Cooper was always a number 10 in my opinion.
He should never have been a winger.
It probably stopped him being the player he should have been.

The years and periods of his career when he suffered of being wide in poor football teams were the very example of this waste.
Davie should have been on the ball in the middle and running games, not waiting for service on a barren limb.
 
bilkobear said:
Davie Cooper was always a number 10 in my opinion.
He should never have been a winger.
It probably stopped him being the player he should have been.

The years and periods of his career when he suffered of being wide in poor football teams were the very example of this waste.
Davie should have been on the ball in the middle and running games, not waiting for service on a barren limb.
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Good point and maybe one of the reason he could drift out of games as all wingers do. Or the amount of times he came on as a sub. Maybe if he was played in the 10 role this wouldn't have happened. Although football has changed. Still one of my fav all timers.
 
Coop's last game for Rangers was a pre-season friendly against Clyde at Firhill. Mojo didn't play, but two young South African trialists did. (We'd played Thistle at Firhill a few days previously in another friendly)
 
Taki said:
Yes, the early years were actually more interesting. From 1986-1989, Rangers were probably the coolest club in Britain and every game was like an event. In Walter's book, he talks about arriving at Rangers and the place just being an empty shell when the players went home. No staff there, no hospitality, no process for even doing the laundry, etc. I'd love to hear more about the process by which Souness came to Rangers, his initial impressions of the squad, the stadium, what needed to be done, the signing of Butcher, the 86 LCF, etc. I mean, he rarely talks about his relationship with David Holmes but half his time at Rangers was under Holmes. I'm not sure he gets how much of an utter lady's front bottom we now think David Murray is. We're not impressed by him anymore, Graeme.

Souness got a couple of awards at Rangers for 'anti-sectarianism' - one from the Lord Provost, Suzie Baird. He acts like someone who has had 25 years of Yahoos patronising him by thanking him for dealing with the 'tewwible bigotry at Rangers'. It's basically their way of overshadowing everything else he did but he just doesn't see that.
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My favourite period following Rangers.
We were the biggest club in Britain at that time. We could outbid the Man U's and the Liverpool's for players. We had the best stadium in Britain.
It really was the best of times.
 
Coops4 said:
Good point and maybe one of the reason he could drift out of games as all wingers do. Or the amount of times he came on as a sub. Maybe if he was played in the 10 role this wouldn't have happened. Although football has changed. Still one of my fav all timers.
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Davie Cooper would've been a revelation as a No10.
 
Alex Venters said:
My favourite period following Rangers.
We were the biggest club in Britain at that time. We could outbid the Man U's and the Liverpool's for players. We had the best stadium in Britain.
It really was the best of times.
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I don't think we could outbid them. But we were a far better attraction for them in terms of European football.

Souness record signing was £1.5m for Johnston, Kuznetsov and Trevor Steven. In contrast, Liverpool forked out £2.7m for Ian Rush. Man Utd paid £2.3m for Pallister and £2.4m for Paul Ince
 
Yes, there was great activity and many different issues when Souness was our manager. However, I look back on his time with us with a sense of gratitude. I recall leaving Kilbowie Park on a Saturday afternoon, having watched a woeful Rangers team, struggle against Clydebank. The next week, Graeme Souness was appointed manager by a man called David Holmes, whose vision for our club, was outstanding. The transformation, which followed was a memory to be cherished.
 
I honestly believe that Scottish, and maybe even English football, would be entirely different today if Souness hadn't came to us. He revolurionised everything. Made us the biggest team in Britain and the likes of Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal wanted what we had.
 
Thornliebank_Bear said:
When i see the great man on telly i always remember the goal v Aberdeen hes pointing at copland 2-0 win, sure it was around this time of the season, great goal great day. That was when you really started to think we had a chance to win it despite a poor start as Aberdeen were always tough opponents our record against them had been dreadful.

Robert Fleck had a very good season iirc scored some vital goals gave his all every time.
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Should never have sold Fleck I was 12/13 at the time I was gutted
 
Taki said:
I love Souness but it's sad that he seems to now regard the signing of Johnston as the pinnacle of his Rangers career. It seems to be the focal point of any his discussions about us now. It was a big signing but I prefer the first 2 or 3 years under Souness. At least he hints that we only really got 1 season out of Johnston - which we did.

I don't get the references to Walters or Cohen as though Scottish football was awash with black and Jewish players, just not at Rangers. And Scotland is not 50/50.
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To be fair to him its always a subject he gets asked about, so its going to be a big focal point of his discussions about us.
 
bluelacoste said:
To be fair to him its always a subject he gets asked about, so its going to be a big focal point of his discussions about us.
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These are extracts from his book though I guess they may have selected only the bits dealing with Mo Johnston. I don't get the impression that Souness is reluctant to talk about it and I think he regards it as an 'achievement' of some sort.
 
The whole Cooper thing is nonsense, I had been told that a few of the players who had played with him at Scotland level raised their heads about him playing for Rangers (McCoist was one name mentioned) and Souness questioned if they really believed that.
Also the first instance of high jinks involving MJ actually involved players who 3 weeks earlier had said they had a problem. Durrant had a big career ahead of him and should take the chance to play with as many big international players as they could.
Cooper's name was brought up as the story goes but it was shut down by the person who said sadly Coops was at the end of his time with the club and couldn't be guaranteed a first team place (number of subs at the time) and was never going to be able to moved in to midfield with the likes of Durrant and Derek Ferguson, even McCall who all had years left on their careers. As Cooper had been a good servant to the club he was given the option to stay or leave. Cooper felt he still had game time in his legs and disagreed so left the club. He was proved correct and won Motherwell the cup.

Souness wanted to keep Cooper around to help with some of the younger Scottish players.

The person who I had the conversation if close to the Souness family and I take what he said to me to be close to the truth.
 
A great manager for us .For years , we'd struggled and yet within a few short months we knew , just knew , we'd win that league .

Yes , in that first season ,he bought Woods and Butcher , and later on Roberts , but there was more to Souness than buying success . The basis of that season was with players like Munro , McPherson , Durrant , D.Ferguson , McMinn , Cooper , McCoist , Fleck , guys that had been 1st team players previous to Souness's arrival . Fine footballers , but imo , it was Souness that gave them that belief and mentality that turned them into winners .
 
insanicdrunk said:
WTF is the matter with some people? Burns was long gone, he left in 87, I cant even remember him ever playing for Souness either.

As for Cooper, he was in the training camp with Johnston, not packed off to Well the next day!

The beggars make up enough stories with out 'bears' helping them.
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You're correct as re Hugh Burns - he left Souness's first season . Iirc , we played Bayern Munich in a friendly at Ibrox preseason and lost 2-0 . Souness was quite vocal in blaming two of the players for losing the goals , one of which was HB . Within a few days he brought back Jimmy Nicholl and I'm not sure if HB played again .
 
Saltcoatsblu said:
a4vi47.png
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So was Jimmy Nichol one of the players punted for not welcoming MoJo ?
 
Cooper left because Walters was keeping him out the team. Souness has even admitted he should not have let him go. it was nothing to do with signing Mo Johnston.
 
SDF said:
Could not agree more.

His five years seems to boil down to signing Johnston, arguing with a tea lady and falling out with numerous folk which does him and us a massive disservice.

People forget just how much of a rut we were in when he arrived. A stagnant club going absolutely nowhere who had been overtaken by not only them but Hearts, Dundee United and Aberdeen and were essentially going head to head with Dundee to finish 5th in a 10 team table. We were a shambles when he took over.

He ripped out the blueprint and dragged us kicking and screaming into modern football. We went from losing to Clydebank to knocking out Dynamo Kyiv inside of 18 months. We went from Craig Paterson to Terry Butcher as our captain. He took guys like Fleck, Durrant, Munro and McCoist to another level. We left the rest of Scottish football for dead with our approach, our signings, our off field earnings and our football. A lot of that is down to him.

People talk about Wenger revolutionising English football. Souness did that 10 years before him up here. Wenger gets lauded. Souness gets accused of ruining our game.

But truth be told I'm genuinely sick of hearing about the Johnston signing. Especially when the story seems to change to suit whatever party is talking about it. Including Souness.
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Souness started the revolution. Signing England internationals etc was just night and day from the early 80s.
 
Never understood this nonsense about him signing our first ever Catholic player.

Catholic players had been at the club for decades before he was even born
 
Alex Venters said:
Another slur on Davie Cooper?

Just seen post above he left prior to Johnston arriving.

Another soundbite from Souness that shows us in a bad light.
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I dont think its a slur. I think its widely accepted that Davie Cooper wasnt pleased at the signing. He wanted us to remain a protestant club and made his feelings clear. At that time there was only going to be one winner and that was Souness hence Coopers departure.
 
I think Souness told the rest of the team in no uncertain terms that if they didn't welcome Johnston because he was a catholic, they would be out the door.

I don't think anyone actually did. Seem to recall there was a joke when at the training camp in Italy where Jimmy Bell arranged for him to sit alone away from the reast of the squad.

Johnston was a massive signing for us. Have Celtic ever recovered?????

In first season, he scored the 2nd in a 2-1 win or the 1 in the 1-1 draw. All the vital goals.
 
TNT said:
I think Souness told the rest of the team in no uncertain terms that if they didn't welcome Johnston because he was a catholic, they would be out the door.

I don't think anyone actually did. Seem to recall there was a joke when at the training camp in Italy where Jimmy Bell arranged for him to sit alone away from the reast of the squad.

Johnston was a massive signing for us. Have Celtic ever recovered?????

In first season, he scored the 2nd in a 2-1 win or the 1 in the 1-1 draw. All the vital goals.
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I think you can say they've recovered.
Not that they'll ever stop hurting over it though.
 
David Mack said:
I dont think its a slur. I think its widely accepted that Davie Cooper wasnt pleased at the signing. He wanted us to remain a protestant club and made his feelings clear. At that time there was only going to be one winner and that was Souness hence Coopers departure.
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To who did he make these feelings clear?
 
bilkobear said:
Indeed .
John Spencer attended a Roman Catholic school when he signed for Rangers.
He got abuse from fellow pupils.

How many Scottish Protestant kids signing for The Filth, ever got abuse at their non dom schools?

My non dom school had a few pupils who supported The Filth, and they were given no hassle, other pupils supported a variety of teams, although Rangers were the most popular.
The nearest bigot factories schools were almost exclusively filled with Filth supporters.

I am afraid the truth regarding this issue is never properly discussed, because it is dominated by those from a certain background who push a deliberate misconception of the history to suit an agenda that misrepresents the facts.
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Correct. Romanist schools are bigot factories, and if you believe anything else then you are kiddin yersel.
 
Alex Venters said:
Another slur on Davie Cooper?

Just seen post above he left prior to Johnston arriving.

Another soundbite from Souness that shows us in a bad light.
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Cooper left us for 1 reason and one reason only.
Davie was at an age when he needed first team football.
He asked the management about this at Rangers, they made it clear that he wouldn't be guaranteed first team action.
He made a sensible decision to leave us and go to Motherwell
The reality was he had years left in him
Cooper was an outstanding football player
 
Imo Souness is the best thing that ever happened to rangers.Hated when and how he left but could never turn against him.I'll never forget when he joined us, on the news came down the tunnel with the strip on,i thought i was dreaming.
 
I think if anything this thread proves that if enough mentally challengeds spread enough slurs then even some of our own will believe the manky bastards.
 
bilkobear said:
Davie Cooper was always a number 10 in my opinion.
He should never have been a winger.
It probably stopped him being the player he should have been.

The years and periods of his career when he suffered of being wide in poor football teams were the very example of this waste.
Davie should have been on the ball in the middle and running games, not waiting for service on a barren limb.
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As I recall it, Cooper played more centrally at Motherwell, did he not, and appeared rejuvenated in that role, culminating in what I remember being an outstanding season in ‘90/91 when he was pivotal in leading them to cup glory.

Being such a one footed player however, and given our rich history in producing legendary wingers down through the years (and Scottish football’s enduring love affair with tanner ba’ players in general), perhaps it was somewhat understandable that Cooper’s outrageous talents saw him shunted out onto the wing where it was felt players of his ilk flourished best?
 
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