SPFL-Doncaster- Lawwell, has it all gone away ?

[Valley Bluenose]

Interesting. But do Hearts and SPFL have full control over who they choose, or do they choose from a pre-selected short list? And if so, who selects the short list?

The SFA have a list of folk from which the panel will be selected. Its hardly a 'short' list though, I believe it comprises more than 50 'candidates'. Hearts pick one, the SPFL pick one and and then the two selected agree on a Chair.

The SFA will have little influence on the outcome.

 

[DEJA BLUE]

Was supposed to start this eeek, but now delayed until next week at the earliest.

Wonder why that is, we need this to start now, or time runs down to kick off. Then something major would have to happen to delay it.

 

[Carltonblue]

The SFA have a list of folk from which the panel will be selected. Its hardly a 'short' list though, I believe it comprises more than 50 'candidates'. Hearts pick one, the SPFL pick one and and then the two selected agree on a Chair.

The SFA will have little influence on the outcome.

Thanks for clarifying VBN, every day’s a school day. It would be interesting to see the 50+ list for FF to give it the once over

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Thanks for clarifying VBN, every day’s a school day. It would be interesting to see the 50+ list for FF to give it the once over

It certainly would.

 

[1288Bear]

The SFA have a list of folk from which the panel will be selected. Its hardly a 'short' list though, I believe it comprises more than 50 'candidates'. Hearts pick one, the SPFL pick one and and then the two selected agree on a Chair.

The SFA will have little influence on the outcome.

Correct although I believe Lord Clark rejected the submitted list or, at least, clarified the qualifications he expected to see for someone to sit on the panel - the inference being that some of those on the list were not suitably qualified.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Correct although I believe Lord Clark rejected the submitted list or, at least, clarified the qualifications he expected to see for someone to sit on the panel - the inference being that some of those on the list were not suitably qualified.

Yeah, he wanted folk with more of a legal background rather than 'football' people. Most specifically for the Chair, where he specified a minimum 10 years experience as a QC or Advocate.

 

[joseph]

Yeah, he wanted folk with more of a legal background rather than 'football' people. Most specifically for the Chair, where he specified a minimum 10 years experience as a QC or Advocate.

And this was just one of his stipulations the Spfl blatantly withholding or non disclosure of alll or some of requested evidence from hearts/thistle being another one - he also stated he would set aside time in his court should any blatant breaches of his stipulations occur

 

[defender]

Was supposed to start this eeek, but now delayed until next week at the earliest.

Kind of reinforcing my OP this will be made to 'go away'

 

[Disco Deejay]

Can't see Hearts and Thistle winning at arbitration. I have a feeling this will end up in court but who knows the fact it appears to be fully independent might give them a chance.

As far as we are concerned I don't expect much to happen now. We have been pretty non committal through the entire thing. A few statements here and there with some hollow quotes is not going to cut it. You cannot be coming out with phrases like 'we can assure supporters we will not be found wanting' regarding the situation then actually do nothing at all while our main rivals are being handed the league title.

The less said about the 200+ page report and the doomed vote to have an independent investigation the better. What we were trying to achieve with this nobody is sure. Everybody and their dog knew this was never getting passed so not sure what the point in this was or what we gained by doing it.

Then after our defeated resolution we get the 'status quo cannot hold ' statement before doing absolutely nothing for a couple of months.

I'm pretty certain we as a club will just sit back and see how this plays out now. The time for us to do something has been and gone.

What could we have done?

Hearts & Thistle have a far stronger case than we had and if we had gone to Court, it would have ended up with the exact same result - SFA Arbitration.

Rangers sought support at the time and received very little backing from other clubs. There was simply not the support needed to proceed with any chance of victory. Our Resolution was simply us making a point and finding out exactly how many other clubs were willing to stand up and be counted against the SPFL Board and Lawwell.

Unfortunately, we had no choice other than playing the long game. Slowly but surely, other clubs are seeing the SPFL for what they are and hopefully the Independent Tribunal will see the events of the Good Friday Dundee Votegate episode brought out into the open and convert a few more clubs into backing a complete clear out.

 

[Cambuslang Bear]

I think Hearts & Partick will win their case against the SPFL.

So do I. The fact they are picking who is on the panel is a game changer.

 

[1288Bear]

Kind of reinforcing my OP this will be made to 'go away'

Not sure it can - Lord Clark made it clear that, in his opinion, delays to date were an SPFL issue and that any delays in the Arbitration process would likely see it back in court. Also noting that there was a suitable window in the court calendar to hear the case.

He was quite clear that he would take a very dim view of the SPFL trying to delay or derail the process and any attempt to do so would see them back in court.

The media like to portray the case to date as a victory for the SPFL having been granted their preferred option of SFA Arbitration but it is anything but.

 

[Disco Deejay]

I would hope that before any payment is made, as it will be coming from the clubs the clubs will get a vote as to whether the payment is made or not. I would expect the clubs would vote against such a payment.

Clubs can vote whatever way they like, but it would make no difference. If the Court decrees that compensation has to be paid by the SPFL, then it must be paid, no matter what the clubs say.

The only way around it would be for the SPFL to liquidate. However, that is unlikely due to its annual income being more than the £10m compensation being claimed. So the compensation payment would take priority, probably in agreed instalments over a year or two and the clubs would have to receive a reduced payout from whatever is left, until Hearts & Thistle have been paid in full.

 

[defender]

Not sure it can - Lord Clark made it clear that, in his opinion, delays to date were an SPFL issue and that any delays in the Arbitration process would likely see it back in court. Also noting that there was a suitable window in the court calendar to hear the case.

He was quite clear that he would take a very dim view of the SPFL trying to delay or derail the process and any attempt to do so would see them back in court.

The media like to portray the case to date as a victory for the SPFL having been granted their preferred option of SFA Arbitration but it is anything but.

I believe money will start changing hands in the back ground and certain other assurances given, then in the interests of Scottish football we move on. All other clubs eyes will be on the season starting and the scab starts to heal over.

Cynic that I am

 

[Disco Deejay]

Not sure it can - Lord Clark made it clear that, in his opinion, delays to date were an SPFL issue and that any delays in the Arbitration process would likely see it back in court. Also noting that there was a suitable window in the court calendar to hear the case.

He was quite clear that he would take a very dim view of the SPFL trying to delay or derail the process and any attempt to do so would see them back in court.

The media like to portray the case to date as a victory for the SPFL having been granted their preferred option of SFA Arbitration but it is anything but.

Correct. His report suggested to me that he was only referring the matter to SFA Arbitration as he was compelled to do so by law. However, he was doing so with a considerable deal of reluctance and would be more than happy to take control if the SFA/SPFL made any attempt to delay proceedings or fail to hand over documentation.

IMHO they would be very stupid not to comply with his instructions and go back in front of Lord Clark.

 

[isawthat]

Where's this from?

Today’s Daily Mail sports pages.

 

[1288Bear]

I believe money will start changing hands in the back ground and certain other assurances given, then in the interests of Scottish football we move on. All other clubs eyes will be on the season starting and the scab starts to heal over.

Cynic that I am

You could be right and it is, indeed, not uncommon for parties to settle at the last minute without going through the Arbitration process.
The question is how much of Hearts and Particks £10m would they be willing to settle for and, more importantly, who is going to pay it?

 

[StirlingBear]

What could we have done?

Hearts & Thistle have a far stronger case than we had and if we had gone to Court, it would have ended up with the exact same result - SFA Arbitration.

Rangers sought support at the time and received very little backing from other clubs. There was simply not the support needed to proceed with any chance of victory. Our Resolution was simply us making a point and finding out exactly how many other clubs were willing to stand up and be counted against the SPFL Board and Lawwell.

Unfortunately, we had no choice other than playing the long game. Slowly but surely, other clubs are seeing the SPFL for what they are and hopefully the Independent Tribunal will see the events of the Good Friday Dundee Votegate episode brought out into the open and convert a few more clubs into backing a complete clear out.

We could have challenged the calling of the season. We managed to pull together a 200 page report for a resolution that was doomed to failure that even we knew was never going to be enough. You mention playing the long game and other clubs seeing the light.

Ok what is the long game??? And what clubs do you think don't actually know how the game up here operates?

Maybe you are right but I don't see what we can do now if anything. Stewart Robertson pretty much confirmed that we tried our best but move on.

Sorry that is nothing short of disgraceful from our board no matter how you dress it up.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

We could have challenged the calling of the season. We managed to pull together a 200 page report for a resolution that was doomed to failure that even we knew was never going to be enough. You mention playing the long game and other clubs seeing the light.

Ok what is the long game??? And what clubs do you think don't actually know how the game up here operates?

Maybe you are right but I don't see what we can do now if anything. Stewart Robertson pretty much confirmed that we tried our best but move on.

Sorry that is nothing short of disgraceful from our board no matter how you dress it up.

Isn't that precisely what a large potion of the Hearts/Thistle case is though? And a far stronger one than we have since they have clearly and indisputably suffered as a result?

 

[ChildOfGoth]

The spfl have won a watch in this havent they really. I think the key thing is that the evidence and the findings are ultimately to remain secret, or am I wrong?

if so this is a disgrace in itself. They bullied member organisations and presented options to the members in a way that guaranteed they would win the vote, relegate Hearts and Thistle and allow Celtic to be handed a title.

that’s the issue, the maladministration and bias of the organisation that conspired to unfairly treat the two clubs is unethical, immoral and corrupt.

we may never get to see the facts presented that at 16:48 the Dundee vote was received and before calling the result of the vote Doncaster called Lawwell who intervened and called Nelms. Their vote was changed and we ended up with Hearts and Thistle seriously damaged. This needs exposed and they need held to account for their chicanery.

My advice from a Hearts fan friend is that IF Hearts’ petition succeeds then the content will become public .

 

[ChildOfGoth]

You could be right and it is, indeed, not uncommon for parties to settle at the last minute without going through the Arbitration process.
The question is how much of Hearts and Particks £10m would they be willing to settle for and, more importantly, who is going to pay it?

Yes mate the fundamental issue of the financial capability to meet Compensation is massive .

I would be very sure too that Hearts and Thistle would much prefer No Relegation as an outcome .

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Yes mate the fundamental issue of the financial capability to meet Compensation is massive .

I would be very sure too that Hearts and Thistle would much prefer No Relegation as an outcome .

SPFL are due the first instalment from Sky in early August. Reportedly £12.5m. Any compo will simply be deemed 'costs' by the Board and paid out of that, with commensurate reductions in prize money further down the line.

 

[1288Bear]

Yes mate the fundamental issue of the financial capability to meet Compensation is massive .

I would be very sure too that Hearts and Thistle would much prefer No Relegation as an outcome .

Therein lies the problem - Hearts and Thistle win and their preferred resolution is obviously reinstatement. The SPFL can't reinstate without reneging on the already announced promotions - unless they force through reconstruction and they are way too late for that with an Aug 1st start date. The only alternative for the SPFL is compensation and they can't afford to pay it.

As they say "act in haste - repent at leisure"

 

[Earl of Leven]

We were never going to sue them, expose them, bring them down etc - I am surprised so many still think it's imminent.

 

[StirlingBear]

Isn't that precisely what a large potion of the Hearts/Thistle case is though? And a far stronger one than we have since they have clearly and indisputably suffered as a result?

Any team that had a chance to better their position has suffered due to the league being called, that is the facts.

Our board sat by and watched this unfold and made a poor effort to be seen as doing something.

No matter how you dress this up until we actually start standing up for our views and publicly challenge anything we feel is unfair or deliberately done to hamper us then it will keep happening.

As it stands our board are miles of it compared to across the road.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Any team that had a chance to better their position has suffered due to the league being called, that is the facts.

Our board sat by and watched this unfold and made a poor effort to be seen as doing something.

No matter how you dress this up until we actually start standing up for our views and publicly challenge anything we feel is unfair or deliberately done to hamper us then it will keep happening.

As it stands our board are miles of it compared to across the road.

Can't dispute your first sentence. However, as I've said, Hearts and Thistle - the two indisputably impacted the most -are taking on the challenge. They have a far greater chance of success than our 'potential' loss would have attracted.

What is it that you see in our case that would make our legal challenge stronger than theirs? Fact is, a large part of their case is built upon our dossier in any event.

 

[1288Bear]

SPFL are due the first instalment from Sky in early August. Reportedly £12.5m. Any compo will simply be deemed 'costs' by the Board and paid out of that, with commensurate reductions in prize money further down the line.

Not sure how that would go down. The SPFL do have the ability to do exactly as you suggest, however, the clubs get a draw on that money during the course of the season and many of them rely on that money just to survive.

Assuming that any compensation would likewise be paid in instalments over the course of the season it would still be a significant reduction in other clubs income.

The other thing that seems to have been overlooked while on this has been going on, unless I missed it, is the resolution of BT's rebate for last seasons games that weren't played. Another potential £3 - 4m out the kitty although, technically, that should come out last years pot.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

Not sure how that would go down. The SPFL do have the ability to do exactly as you suggest, however, the clubs get a draw on that money during the course of the season and many of them rely on that money just to survive.

Assuming that any compensation would likewise be paid in instalments over the course of the season it would still be a significant reduction in other clubs income.

The other thing that seems to have been overlooked while on this has been going on, unless I missed it, is the resolution of BT's rebate for last seasons games that weren't played. Another potential £3 - 4m out the kitty although, technically, that should come out last years pot.

They have no other way to pay any compo than from their income. Ergo, the clubs all take the hit - regardless of how much it is or over how long a period.

And you are correct. There was a story that BT Sport had agreed £2.3m. That's yet to be confirmed. Then there's refunds to the BBC and overseas broadcasters. If Hearts and Thistle get the full compo they seek - highly unlikely - then this seasons prize pot could drop to circa £10m. Ouch!

 

[bigy]

When is the hearing?

 

[ChildOfGoth]

I don’t think there is any urgency for Rangers to act . The present Petition’s outcomes could lay out some interesting opportunities .

 

[ChildOfGoth]

They have other way to pay any compo than from their income. Ergo, the clubs all take the hit - regardless of how much it is or over how long a period.

And you are correct. There was a story that BT Sport had agreed £2.3m. That's yet to be confirmed. Then there's refunds to the BBC and overseas broadcasters. If Hearts and Thistle get the full compo they seek - highly unlikely - then this seasons prize pot could drop to circa £10m. Ouch!

Perhaps inappropriate to build too much of a case right now but IF a sizeable compensation is due , say 5m plus , I would expect significant clubs to be in Admin and possibly a sizeable number of them too .

Would the mid table and below spl or Championship teams be most exposed ?

 

[1288Bear]

Any team that had a chance to better their position has suffered due to the league being called, that is the facts.

Our board sat by and watched this unfold and made a poor effort to be seen as doing something.

No matter how you dress this up until we actually start standing up for our views and publicly challenge anything we feel is unfair or deliberately done to hamper us then it will keep happening.

As it stands our board are miles of it compared to across the road.

Losing an opportunity is not the same as actually incurring a financial loss.
Hearts and Partick together with Stranraer have a demonstrable loss that they will incur as a direct result of this decision. We don't.

We have, however, missed out on an opportunity to significantly improve our financial situation as a result of this decision. That is not a direct loss but does provide grounds for a claim. That claim, however, would be for a nominal amount and not the potential £30m that some people think we should be entitled to - there are simply too many unknowns and implausible's between where we were at the time of suspension and the possible £30m. If someone prevented you buying a lottery ticket could you sue them for the amount of the jackpot because they denied you the opportunity to win it?

We do, as noted, have some justification but Hearts and Particks case is stronger with a greater chance of success.

I do wish we had a stronger case but sadly we don't.

 

[Disco Deejay]

We could have challenged the calling of the season. We managed to pull together a 200 page report for a resolution that was doomed to failure that even we knew was never going to be enough. You mention playing the long game and other clubs seeing the light.

Ok what is the long game??? And what clubs do you think don't actually know how the game up here operates?

Maybe you are right but I don't see what we can do now if anything. Stewart Robertson pretty much confirmed that we tried our best but move on.

Sorry that is nothing short of disgraceful from our board no matter how you dress it up.

How could we have challenged the calling of the season?

At that point, the best we could have hoped for was getting to where Hearts & Thistle are now - SFA Arbitration. The vote would at best have been declared null & void and another vote ordered, by which time Dundee had changed their mind and the result would have remained the same.

After the vote, I know that we canvassed other clubs and sought legal advice on several options and there was no appetite to back us. Based upon the feedback received, the Directors decided not to proceed at that point.

Hearts & Thistle have a chance of winning their case due to the the fact that they can prove that that as Companies they have lost out on income plus had their trade restricted, due to being relegated to league's that will start later than the Premier League (in terms of the Championship) and possibly not start at all this season (in terms of the First Div).

Argument that our trade was restricted or we have lost money is not quite as simple. Even winning the league does not guarantee CL income, so you cannot calculate losses based upon income that is in no way guaranteed and let's be honest here, we were 13 points behind that lot, albeit with a game in hand, so I doubt that any reasonable person is going to think that we were more deserving of a CL place.

In Summary: Our Board had no backing from other clubs and very little chance of reversing the decision to end the league, so there was no point in wasting a lot of time, money and effort on something that they had little chance of winning. Hence the reason that Hearts & Thistle are placing more emphasis on the Company Law route, rather than the football route.

 

[StirlingBear]

Losing an opportunity is not the same as actually incurring a financial loss.
Hearts and Partick together with Stranraer have a demonstrable loss that they will incur as a direct result of this decision. We don't.

We have, however, missed out on an opportunity to significantly improve our financial situation as a result of this decision. That is not a direct loss but does provide grounds for a claim. That claim, however, would be for a nominal amount and not the potential £30m that some people think we should be entitled to - there are simply too many unknowns and implausible's between where we were at the time of suspension and the possible £30m. If someone prevented you buying a lottery ticket could you sue them for the amount of the jackpot because they denied you the opportunity to win it?

We do, as noted, have some justification but Hearts and Particks case is stronger with a greater chance of success.

I do wish we had a stronger case but sadly we don't.

No because I never entered the competition. If I had my ticket and matched the first 4 numbers and they then hand picked the last two numbers to stop me from winning then I would have a case.

I totally see the financial disparity and all but that is only a small part of the issue.

Far too many seem to accept that the fact the rules can be fudged to disadvantage others regardless of league positions. We may not have had as much to moan about as Hearts or Partick financially but that does not really affect the calling of the league from a legal standing.

 

[Disco Deejay]

They have other way to pay any compo than from their income. Ergo, the clubs all take the hit - regardless of how much it is or over how long a period.

And you are correct. There was a story that BT Sport had agreed £2.3m. That's yet to be confirmed. Then there's refunds to the BBC and overseas broadcasters. If Hearts and Thistle get the full compo they seek - highly unlikely - then this seasons prize pot could drop to circa £10m. Ouch!

I take it you meant to include "no" third word in.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

I take it you meant to include "no" third word in.

Haha, oops of course I did. Will edit it now.

 

[buc11]

I'm struggling to be enthused with the upcoming season.

Maybe it's due to Covid but seeing them get whatever they want is sickening.

 

[Disco Deejay]

Haha, oops of course I did. Will edit it now.

Damn, it would have been more interesting if you knew of another way they could raise £10m at short notice.

 

[1288Bear]

No because I never entered the competition. If I had my ticket and matched the first 4 numbers and they then hand picked the last two numbers to stop me from winning then I would have a case.

I totally see the financial disparity and all but that is only a small part of the issue.

Far too many seem to accept that the fact the rules can be fudged to disadvantage others regardless of league positions. We may not have had as much to moan about as Hearts or Partick financially but that does not really affect the calling of the league from a legal standing.

Don't misunderstand my take that we had a pretty weak case to somehow indicate that I'm prepared to accept the SPFL corruption or changing of rules as they see fit to benefit one team. I'm not.

I just believed that in this particular instance Hearts and Partick have the stronger case and, as such, it was right to let them lead, allow their case to develop and expose the corruption, or mal-administration, and thereafter, once they have clearly demonstrated the various issues we previously raised, we act to cleanse the footballing authorities in this country - properly cleanse. It's the only way we have any chance going forward.

It's very much one step at a time and knowing what particular steps are most beneficial long term. For me Doncaster, MacLennan, McKenzie and all need to go then we focus on the SFA and Mulraney etc. If we dont we will be accepting second best is all we can ever achieve as, with them at the helm, we won't be allowed to compete fairly.

 

[Tim Hunter]

Therein lies the problem - Hearts and Thistle win and their preferred resolution is obviously reinstatement. The SPFL can't reinstate without reneging on the already announced promotions - unless they force through reconstruction and they are way too late for that with an Aug 1st start date. The only alternative for the SPFL is compensation and they can't afford to pay it.

As they say "act in haste - repent at leisure"

They will not be in the least repentant, the main aim of the whole process has been achieved. The "award" of an title that had not been won on the park.
At the time, Liverpool with a far superior lead were, saying that they would not be willing to accept the title of champions if the season was not completed. Celtc were unwiling to take the risk that they would have to follow suit. That is what this whole shitshow was/is about. The damage caused to Scottish football and other clubs is simply an irrelevance

 

[turps100]

They will not be in the least repentant, the main aim of the whole process has been achieved. The "award" of an title that had not been won on the park.
At the time, Liverpool with a far superior lead were, saying that they would not be willing to accept the title of champions if the season was not completed. Celtc were unwiling to take the risk that they would have to follow suit. That is what this whole shitshow was/is about. The damage caused to Scottish football and other clubs is simply an irrelevance

Nail on head, sadly up here they control the media so no one has the balls to what it was all about.

 

[Roskoranger]

The status quo cannot remain

 

[StirlingBear]

Don't misunderstand my take that we had a pretty weak case to somehow indicate that I'm prepared to accept the SPFL corruption or changing of rules as they see fit to benefit one team. I'm not.

I just believed that in this particular instance Hearts and Partick have the stronger case and, as such, it was right to let them lead, allow their case to develop and expose the corruption, or mal-administration, and thereafter, once they have clearly demonstrated the various issues we previously raised, we act to cleanse the footballing authorities in this country - properly cleanse. It's the only way we have any chance going forward.

It's very much one step at a time and knowing what particular steps are most beneficial long term. For me Doncaster, MacLennan, McKenzie and all need to go then we focus on the SFA and Mulraney etc. If we dont we will be accepting second best is all we can ever achieve as, with them at the helm, we won't be allowed to compete fairly.

I get what your saying regarding the situation but for me personally it's missing the point.

Our board told us they would not be found wanting during this. Celtic the day after football stopped, had their manager out saying they should be awarded the league title on a points per game basis.

Fast forwards a couple of weeks, it's all sewn up.

Can anyone tell me what our board done during this time to challenge this?

I love our board so much for what they have done in terms of freeing us from the clutches of the spivs and the continued fight against Mike Ashley as well but this whole episode is a huge black mark that made them look weak.

Even if it was not worth doing anything from a legal standpoint that is certainly no excuse for not speaking up and calling this whole situation out for the sham it is.
Our board remain silent.

 

[1288Bear]

They will not be in the least repentant, the main aim of the whole process has been achieved. The "award" of an title that had not been won on the park.
At the time, Liverpool with a far superior lead were, saying that they would not be willing to accept the title of champions if the season was not completed. Celtc were unwiling to take the risk that they would have to follow suit. That is what this whole shitshow was/is about. The damage caused to Scottish football and other clubs is simply an irrelevance

You are of course correct in that the bheasts will regret none of this or the damage to other member clubs. They are absolutely shameless and see nothing wrong with either covering up the systematic abuse of children in their care or of utilising the tragic death of a former bit part player to assist them on their quest for a title so they certainly won't have any regrets, or remorse, about this trivial matter.

Others, however, played a part in the decision making process and helped them achieve their ambition by going along with the SPFL's hastily arranged proposals which ultimately led to the position we are now. Clubs who will now be looking at a significant reduction in their income for next year - they (or at least the non mentally challengeds among them) may well now be regretting the decision they made previously to prematurely end the season for the promise of instant cash.

 

[1288Bear]

I get what your saying regarding the situation but for me personally it's missing the point.

Our board told us they would not be found wanting during this. Celtic the day after football stopped, had their manager out saying they should be awarded the league title on a points per game basis.

Fast forwards a couple of weeks, it's all sewn up.

Can anyone tell me what our board done during this time to challenge this?

I love our board so much for what they have done in terms of freeing us from the clutches of the spivs and the continued fight against Mike Ashley as well but this whole episode is a huge black mark that made them look weak.

Even if it was not worth doing anything from a legal standpoint that is certainly no excuse for not speaking up and calling this whole situation out for the sham it is.
Our board remain silent.

My hope is, and I could be a mile out, that there will be action following conclusion of the Arbitration process.

Hearts and Partick win and it totally vindicates our position and everything contained within the dossier. That provides grounds for a vote of no confidence, calls for those involved to be removed and potentially an independent inquiry into other matters not covered by the arbitration.

I could well be the eternal optimist and, as you suggest, our Board could let us down and do zilch. If they do then, like most, I will be seriously hacked off - and not just because I have given them the benefit of the doubt but because I genuinely believe it to be the wrong course and think that our chances of success on the field would be greatly diminished without action to remove the corruption that presently exist.

 

[Flying Fullback]

I think Hearts & Partick will win their case against the SPFL.

I think so too. Read the petition and it was pretty convincing.

What the board will award them I don't know. Will they say SPFL has to overturn the relegation or will it just be a case of compo money?

The petition did say they were only looking to overturn relegation and not Celtic being made champions, so any idea they are losing their title over this is sadly just fantasy.

If compensation is awarded and we end up with less prize money because of it, I wonder if strengthens our case to try to kick out Doncaster et al.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

Doncaster can then turn to the clubs and say we need to give them money from future earnings - sorry lads.

And how will those clubs then react CB ?

When the information from our dossier is proven to be true &
the clubs then realise that Doncaster & MacLennan's lies have
cost them significant cash ?

That's the trigger point for them being kicked out IMO.

Interesting that they fought to keep this case from being in
the public eye, i'd suggest

 

[A1bertz]

Therein lies the problem - Hearts and Thistle win and their preferred resolution is obviously reinstatement. The SPFL can't reinstate without reneging on the already announced promotions - unless they force through reconstruction and they are way too late for that with an Aug 1st start date. The only alternative for the SPFL is compensation and they can't afford to pay it.

As they say "act in haste - repent at leisure"

That can surely tell Dundee Utd, sorry. Hearts not relegated therefore no promotion...sorry.

 

[1288Bear]

That can surely tell Dundee Utd, sorry. Hearts not relegated therefore no promotion...sorry.

That would be so good. Only bettered by the conversation that follows...

"Sorry Pete but you're going to have to return the Premiership trophy you didn't win. Sorry mate."

I would absolutely p1sh myself laughing at that point.

 

[joseph]

I think so too. Read the petition and it was pretty convincing.

What the board will award them I don't know. Will they say SPFL has to overturn the relegation or will it just be a case of compo money?

The petition did say they were only looking to overturn relegation and not Celtic being made champions, so any idea they are losing their title over this is sadly just fantasy.

If compensation is awarded and we end up with less prize money because of it, I wonder if strengthens our case to try to kick out Doncaster et al.

If hearts and thistle win their case, and relegation is stopped, it also stands to reason that the winners of the other leagues cannot be declared champions and promoted without reconstruction - and this is the point they do not get the rewards that go with being named winners,
it could be argued that Celtic could also be declared champions but also without the rewards that go with being named winners- the precedent will have been set if Dundee Utd do not get promoted as basically their league has been suspended with no prizes for the winners

 

[A1bertz]

If hearts and thistle win their case, and relegation is stopped, it also stands to reason that the winners of the other leagues cannot be declared champions and promoted without reconstruction - and this is the point they do not get the rewards that go with being named winners,
it could be argued that Celtic could also be declared champions but also without the rewards that go with being named winners- the precedent will have been set if Dundee Utd do not get promoted as basically their league has been suspended with no prizes for the winners

They can't afford to pay the compensation, they will surely have to reverse the promotion/relegation if Hearts and co win.
Will Celtic give up the prize money/ future prize money for their tainted title. Yes.
Will the others, No, the prize money is vital. They can't afford to give it up and it would be stupid if a straight reversal of promotion and relegation avoided this. Gonna be interesting.