Studies underway to add more seats to Ibrox in 2022

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
I would rather we have Safe Standing before then. I want Ibrox to have an atmosphere consistently on a week-to-week basis, no matter the opposition.
My issue with safe standing is that that doesn't automatically create an atmosphere. Ibrox can be the loudest place you could imagine when we've got the current set up.

If you're plodding against Kilmarnock at home, that atmosphere isn't going to be great even if 20k are standing.

I'm not against it if there's a call for it from a large enough number but I'd rather seats were added where possible while we have a demand for that.
 

Glasgow Ger

New Member
If there's serious talk about taking the screens away and increasing seats numbers this is the way to do it.



The roof has to come off the Govan and, like they did for the San Siro, you build a larger structure to the rear of the Govan where Argyll House is that allows an additional tier.

A cantilver roof is then put on "similar" to the Club Deck. The same happens with the roofs in the corners.



We might get away with leaving the goal post structures on the end stands ( depending on how well they can be re-engineered) but it would end up with a few sight lines being restricted as the pillar is required to be retained from the existing structure. Something could possibly be done to lessen the loading and the two black goal post pillars, at the Govan side of the stands, can be moved further back but it does provide restricted views.

It's similar to what Liverpool have currently done. Theirs cost figures that we couldn't even dream of at the moment unless their was investment based on naming of the stand / stadium. It's such a long term pay back that it's basically never going to happen as far as our current set up goes.

We wouldn't have to build the additional tier all the same unless we were trying to hit 65k which is overkill IMO.

If we got to 60k it'd be plenty. You're adding about 5k to the capacity with the upper corner sections filled in. If this was coupled with the feasability studies currently going on with adding seats by lowering the pitch, you'd pretty much be there at 60k.

Again, though, there's the option to just add rows to the back of the existing Govan rather than create a complete Club Deck style tier and the seats would be better up there than below current ground level. 10 rows would add 3k to the 5k from the corners and pretty much be 60k. You lose Argyll House at that point though.

It's all possible but when it comes down to money, it's not going to happen.
These drawings are quite incredible. There would be a hell of a lot of steelwork in the Govan stand. I love the way the Etihad in Manchester’s roof is constructed and held up with suspension cables. It gives the stadium a presence from across the City!
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
It's very much "how long is a bit of string?"

Man U added 7500 to their capacity by filling in the upper corners of the stand opposite their camera so similar to what we'd look at doing and it was somewhere between £50m and £75m 10 years ago.

I don't know the complete ins and outs of that particular project but given it's similar in terms of what it achived, it's going to up there around those kind of silly figures. As a soon as we're above £20m and costs which aren't going to be paid back within a 5-10 year period, I just don't see it being an option.

We were £14m for 7500 seats in the CD in 1990. It today's money that's about £40m and we have to bear in mind that for those 7500 additional seats, we only added about 4500 - 5000 to the capacity as the Main Stand lost a load given Murray's architects failings on that project. That was also for works that solely concentrated on one stand. We have to deal with the end stands during any of these works.

There was a discussion on the thread about Edmiston House about it all. We had people telling us on that thread you could add 10k to the Copland! Lol. The entire stand as it is holds 8000. The back row would be in Livngston.


You look at Liverpool's recent Main Stand works and it was £100m for that. They added 8500 to their capacity. Again, the argument back on that thread from a certain poster was "you don't need to spend EPL money" but unfortunately building works don't trickle down cost wise as EPL payments do compared to SPL levels.

Also on the Liverpool element of things, they don't have the integration to the end stands as we're trying to achieve.


upload pic

They did knock down their existing lower tiers to start again which obviously had massive costs but what we have to do with the corner roofs and any works coming round the corner greatly increase our potential spend.

You have to consider lost revenue when the works are ongoing. Do we relocate to Hampden or tell 10k people in the Govan they can't have their ST for a year?

The lower section under the screen currently holds 800 or so seats. You'd get appoximately three times that in the upper area. Consider it like a piece of Dairylea cheese. You've got one wedge in the lower section, you'd have three in the top sections at either end of the ground so roughly 2400 x 2

It just can't see it happening while we operate under current spending levels.
Wow I did not realise Man U spent that for a similar style/amount increase in their corners, that really is a sobering amount and does put things into perspective, 100% agree that whilst we play in the SPl we could only dream of spending that amount for a 10% increase in capacity.

Looks like it is going to be trying to get bits and bobs tacked on here and there for the forseeable.

Also agree that any large-ish increase or redevelopment in the future, ie corners filled in, new tier onto govan etc would need to be financed through naming rights and/or debenture style ticketing.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
4500 new season ticket holder seats is 10% increase of our season ticket income which is currently at £15M.

Throw in euro sales and other cup games and you would be looking at an extra £2M per season. Even £10M cost to do it would be worth it if it's paying for itself in only 5 years.
I just can't see us adding that number of seats for that cost to an existing structure. No works in the UK have increased stadium capacity at a stadium with our capacity at that ratio of £ per seat in recent times.
 

bluetonic

Well-Known Member
If there's serious talk about taking the screens away and increasing seats numbers this is the way to do it.



The roof has to come off the Govan and, like they did for the San Siro, you build a larger structure to the rear of the Govan where Argyll House is that allows an additional tier.

A cantilver roof is then put on "similar" to the Club Deck. The same happens with the roofs in the corners.



We might get away with leaving the goal post structures on the end stands ( depending on how well they can be re-engineered) but it would end up with a few sight lines being restricted as the pillar is required to be retained from the existing structure. Something could possibly be done to lessen the loading and the two black goal post pillars, at the Govan side of the stands, can be moved further back but it does provide restricted views.

It's similar to what Liverpool have currently done. Theirs cost figures that we couldn't even dream of at the moment unless their was investment based on naming of the stand / stadium. It's such a long term pay back that it's basically never going to happen as far as our current set up goes.

We wouldn't have to build the additional tier all the same unless we were trying to hit 65k which is overkill IMO.

If we got to 60k it'd be plenty. You're adding about 5k to the capacity with the upper corner sections filled in. If this was coupled with the feasability studies currently going on with adding seats by lowering the pitch, you'd pretty much be there at 60k.

Again, though, there's the option to just add rows to the back of the existing Govan rather than create a complete Club Deck style tier and the seats would be better up there than below current ground level. 10 rows would add 3k to the 5k from the corners and pretty much be 60k. You lose Argyll House at that point though.

It's all possible but when it comes down to money, it's not going to happen.
Those images look ace, I guess it could only happen by rebranding Ibrox ie sponsorship, as someone would need to pay for it
 

TwoBadMice

Well-Known Member
Makes me wonder how the stan

Some people have said these stands were designed to allow a third tier. That may be the case in terms of their strength and the loads they can take but it looks quite obvious from your photo that the "crossbar" of a stand would need to be removed to allow viewing from a third tier, and that looks major when looking at how substantial those crossbars are.

It looks as if Ibrox was so well made that it's going to be difficult to add significant numbers without major costs.

It won't add significant numbers but would like to see the ends of the enclosures rising up higher and curving round towards the Copland and Broomloan. Couldn't go too near to the end stands without taking away part of the Copland/Broomloan sides but could get a thousand or so at each corner if similar to the other corners.
They'll be extra steel in there because Murray will have sold us it, that's why it will have been made so well
 

Eagle Keeper

Well-Known Member
It's crazy money when you consider the likes of Windsor park was almost fully rebuilt ( 3 new stands and one refurbished ) all for approx £25 million ? Total capacity 18,000.
 

Helicopter_Spotter

Active Member
Man Utd/Liverpool would be paying top wack, no expense spared for their developments. I like to think that those clubs with less financial clout can still afford some sort of stadium development, otherwise we’re effectively stuck at an unchanged Ibrox forever.
 

Chris the Bandito

Well-Known Member
It is not unfeasible to do, just expensive for the amout of extra seating we would get. Probably around 2-3k per corner dependant on design. With the Govan truss being the main engineering problem it really only makes sense if another tier is placed on top when the roof is replaced.

A new tier brings it's own issues with supports and foundations and will cost similar to Anfields new stand.

All in all it needs to be done in stages

1. Utilise the space between the stands and pitch. Totals depend on how many rows.
Govan 230 per row 1000-1500
Main 200 per row 1000-2000
Copland 150 per row 300-600
Broomloan 150 per row 300-600
2. Bar 72 style at the Copland and Broomloan upper 1000-1500k

Worst case we would be looking at 3500 and absolutely pushing it 6000.
I would suggest digging down as far as possible and then doing what you recommend - i.e. re-sloping the lower levels to maximise the benefits. Going by the seat plan on the ticket page of the website you're slightly underestimating the number of seats in each row. I'd also look at re-shaping the enclosure corners to arc slightly towards the end stands so the sight lines are improved and we don't lose the seats at the wings we currently do.

Do these and I think you could gain more than 6K I think around 1000 seats per row is achievable, and I think we could get more than 6 rows. Admittedly it'd be a higher cost but I think it's still in the realms of cost effective as it still isn't touching the upper tier construction in any stand.

The other interesting bit I noticed in the original pics were the little wedges of seats bridging across as small second tiers in front of where the screens are. Those feel like they'd be a vanity project in terms of number of seats v cost, but do you have any feel for how expensive they would be and how many seats we could realistically add there.
 

90minsofmadness

Well-Known Member
6000 seats? The pitch would need to be lowered to the earth’s core to add that many surely :oops:
Say 250 seats per row on each side and 125 at the goal ends is 750 per row. Lets say 1m per row is then 8m deep (probably closer to 0.5m per row). Probably need about half a meter per seat inwards too so 4m removed from the each side of the pitch too. Looks doable but might need to reduce some of the pitch size
 
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LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Say 250 seats per row on each side and 125 at the goal ends is 750 per row. Lets say 1m per row is then 8m deep. Probably need about half a meter per seat inwards too so 4m removed from the each side of the pitch too. Looks doable but might need to reduce some of the pitch size
Slight tangent and not sure how accurate or up to date this is but gives pitch dimensions of scottish clubs.


According to this our pitch is 115x78(yards) whereas the tarriers sty is 105x68 - always thought their pitch looks bigger than ours.
 

Valley Bluenose

Well-Known Member
Slight tangent and not sure how accurate or up to date this is but gives pitch dimensions of scottish clubs.


According to this our pitch is 115x78(yards) whereas the tarriers sty is 105x68 - always thought their pitch looks bigger than ours.
SPFL Rules state the pitch must be between 95-110 metres in length and between 60-72 metres in width, with a recommended size of 105m x 68m. I don't think there is any reliable info published on actual pitch dimensions per club.

Often the distance of the stands from the pitch etc can create an 'optical illusion' of a pitch being 'bigger' or 'smaller' than another.
 

HenningBerg

Well-Known Member
I wonder what the rule is for how close the pitch can be to the front row of each stand .

Im sure uefa have an actual distance that it needs to be . The closer the better atmosphere wise .
 

90minsofmadness

Well-Known Member
SPFL Rules state the pitch must be between 95-110 metres in length and between 60-72 metres in width, with a recommended size of 105m x 68m. I don't think there is any reliable info published on actual pitch dimensions per club.

Often the distance of the stands from the pitch etc can create an 'optical illusion' of a pitch being 'bigger' or 'smaller' than another.
Hampden being the main example.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
My issue with safe standing is that that doesn't automatically create an atmosphere. Ibrox can be the loudest place you could imagine when we've got the current set up.

If you're plodding against Kilmarnock at home, that atmosphere isn't going to be great even if 20k are standing.

I'm not against it if there's a call for it from a large enough number but I'd rather seats were added where possible while we have a demand for that.
There will be a better atmosphere as in theory the club would allow transfers into that section to create an atmosphere. Moving the UB out of the corner and to more central would be a start.
 

GeordieRanger

Active Member
Official Ticketer
I don't actually have a season ticket at all I do think an expansion is needed but I would be worried an extra 6k may be on the high side I just dont want some games against dross with the stadium looking empty like the Taigs having to put flags over seats
Our support isn't even comparable to them. They struggle to get 30k for run of the mill SPL games and 15k for Domestic cup matches. Our fanbase is far bigger and far more loyal than they are, and as such we should really have a bigger stadium.

Aberdeen game went on public sale this morning and sold out out within 15 mins. Pretty sure we could have sold 60k+ for that one had capacity allowed.
 

Carlton The Bear

Well-Known Member
Talk of the pitch lowering reducing the sightlines in the Club Deck for the near side touch line are bang on.

But I’d assume they’d factor moving the pitch over towards the Govan as much as they could to mitigate?

Balancing how far they can drop it before they lose too many existing CD seats to ‘restricted view’ will have to be in the costing for how sensible it is to do.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
There will be a better atmosphere as in theory the club would allow transfers into that section to create an atmosphere. Moving the UB out of the corner and to more central would be a start.
That's fair comment.

Revenue still takes priority though. I would like to see the front of the Broomloan or Copland become the standing section in time if there's a chance to sell 4k tickets in that area for people wanting to stand but moving those in there at the moment could be a stumbling block. It's possible best in the Broomloan for that reason and we don't have away fans to content with in there now either.
 

It Is Old But Beautiful

Well-Known Member
That's fair comment.

Revenue still takes priority though. I would like to see the front of the Broomloan or Copland become the standing section in time if there's a chance to sell 4k tickets in that area for people wanting to stand but moving those in there at the moment could be a stumbling block. It's possible best in the Broomloan for that reason and we don't have away fans to content with in there now either.
I would like to think those behind the goals in BF3 would transfer to BF1 meaning the UB are now in the centre so that more folk will join in with singing etc. I couldn’t imagine it going in the Copland as folk would complain.
 

yosser hughes

Well-Known Member
Wow I did not realise Man U spent that for a similar style/amount increase in their corners, that really is a sobering amount and does put things into perspective, 100% agree that whilst we play in the SPl we could only dream of spending that amount for a 10% increase in capacity.

Looks like it is going to be trying to get bits and bobs tacked on here and there for the forseeable.

Also agree that any large-ish increase or redevelopment in the future, ie corners filled in, new tier onto govan etc would need to be financed through naming rights and/or debenture style ticketing.
ive been in the new stand at anfield on about half a dozen times now,each time on the top tier, its absolutely massive ,with huge concourses, but for the outlay they have spent i would have to assume by far the largest part has been spent in the hospitality areas, they have 6 sets of escalators to rrach the top tier, but the walls are still plain concrete with some banners thrown over them ,and the flooring isnt that great either, this new stand has only provided 9000 more seats than they had previously, but the old main stand has been incorporated into the new structure and reconfigured to be the lower tier of the new stand,as i said earlier ,a big part of the money spent on this is in the restaurants and bars in the hospitality and has proved a massive success,the time it takes to pay for itself has been reduced by a few years now ,and i believe this is why they are going ahead with anfield road stand soon,as the new main stand will be paid off well before the original timescale, with regards the money it would cost us to build, we would not be looking to put in anywhere near the hospitality sections that the likes of liverpool have
 

Carlton The Bear

Well-Known Member
I remember reading an Anfield article where one of the LFC people specifically mentioned the high revenue from hospitality that a new main stand would give them as a main cost implication. Not the number of standard seats.

Edit: and was also given as a reason they didn’t do the Anfield Rd stand at the same time - as the corporate hospitality opportunities there are significantly less than in their Main Stand and ‘standard seats’ don’t generate the same income. Sad but true.
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Our support isn't even comparable to them. They struggle to get 30k for run of the mill SPL games and 15k for Domestic cup matches. Our fanbase is far bigger and far more loyal than they are, and as such we should really have a bigger stadium.

Aberdeen game went on public sale this morning and sold out out within 15 mins. Pretty sure we could have sold 60k+ for that one had capacity allowed.
The people saying we dont need to expand or we wouldnt fill it I just dont comprehend at all.

We have won nothing in 9 years yet we are still selling ibrox out against the likes of hamilton, st mirren and ross county.

There are thousands of bears who cannot get a season ticket.

IF we had a 60k capacity(easier said than done I know)

We would easily sell another 5k in season tickets.

Of course we wouldnt sell out every game but if we sell say 50k in season tickets and then also have bears able to either get a walk up ticket to sit with a mate or son/daughter then even for the smaller games we will be selling towards 55k tickets.

For bigger games aginst sheep/hibs slightly more and then selling out for big european games/tarrier games etc.

I know an increase to 60k will not be happening anytime soon but the demand IS there.

If we can bolt on some extra seating to get to around 55k Ibrox will be full or close to full more often than not.
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
ive been in the new stand at anfield on about half a dozen times now,each time on the top tier, its absolutely massive ,with huge concourses, but for the outlay they have spent i would have to assume by far the largest part has been spent in the hospitality areas, they have 6 sets of escalators to rrach the top tier, but the walls are still plain concrete with some banners thrown over them ,and the flooring isnt that great either, this new stand has only provided 9000 more seats than they had previously, but the old main stand has been incorporated into the new structure and reconfigured to be the lower tier of the new stand,as i said earlier ,a big part of the money spent on this is in the restaurants and bars in the hospitality and has proved a massive success,the time it takes to pay for itself has been reduced by a few years now ,and i believe this is why they are going ahead with anfield road stand soon,as the new main stand will be paid off well before the original timescale, with regards the money it would cost us to build, we would not be looking to put in anywhere near the hospitality sections that the likes of liverpool have
Im actually heading down to the villa game at anfield in april so will have a look for myself mate.

Not surprised about your comments on the hospitality side of things as have had a look at all the different options/levels they can now offer, its on a different planet to what we have in scotland, spurs new stadium is exactly the same - hospitality options are where the £s are.

Should also have said all on site hospitality at anfield is sold out until next season.
 

yosser hughes

Well-Known Member
Im actually heading down to the villa game at anfield in april so will have a look for myself mate.

Not surprised about your comments on the hospitality side of things as have had a look at all the different options/levels they can now offer, its on a different planet to what we have in scotland, spurs new stadium is exactly the same - hospitality options are where the £s are.

Should also have said all on site hospitality at anfield is sold out until next season.
im down for that game myself mate,easter weekend, got my ticket through the members sale, down this weekend for united but thats a kind gesture of a ticket from a friend of a friend down there
 

colinwest

Well-Known Member
Our support isn't even comparable to them. They struggle to get 30k for run of the mill SPL games and 15k for Domestic cup matches. Our fanbase is far bigger and far more loyal than they are, and as such we should really have a bigger stadium.

Aberdeen game went on public sale this morning and sold out out within 15 mins. Pretty sure we could have sold 60k+ for that one had capacity allowed.
Aww ffs, i forgot they went on sale today
 
This needs to happen due the number of season ticket holders increasing every year. I’ve heard that the club only have between 700-900 tickets available for general sale. Will probably take the club/contractors a couple of years to draw up the plans because there is a lot of options available. Can’t see any movement on this for a few years though.
 

Blu_ultra

Well-Known Member
4500 new season ticket holder seats is 10% increase of our season ticket income which is currently at £15M.

Throw in euro sales and other cup games and you would be looking at an extra £2M per season. Even £10M cost to do it would be worth it if it's paying for itself in only 5 years.
I agree. But it's not that easy. Firstly, there are associated costs with season tickets, so that figure is closer to 1 million per season. Add to that the difficulty in obtaining finance. Who would loan us x amount when we as a business are losing 11 million per year? Then there would probably be lost income whilst the work is being carried out. I know we could afford this but the reality is we won't be spending big in the short term until we stem our losses.
 

EndOfDays

Well-Known Member
I agree. But it's not that easy. Firstly, there are associated costs with season tickets, so that figure is closer to 1 million per season. Add to that the difficulty in obtaining finance. Who would loan us x amount when we as a business are losing 11 million per year? Then there would probably be lost income whilst the work is being carried out. I know we could afford this but the reality is we won't be spending big in the short term until we stem our losses.
I don't see how 5000 season ticket seats will cost the club almost £1M a season, it's not like the current 45k costs £9.5M.
 

WATP

Well-Known Member
An interesting read
I'm an engineer and have worked in large scale construction for over 30 years. I have also reviewed the Ibrox designs and other stadia design.

Only the upper tiers at Ibrox have structural steel for the seating. If you view construction photographs and the publication issued at the time you can see how the stands were built. The main issue with expansion of the upper tiers are the roof supports. Carrying out the type of expansions I have proposed will allow expansion in the short term without touching these upper tiers.

The most difficult obstacle to overcome would be the Govan roof goal post support truss, it's huge. It would require massive supports ala Dortmund or replacement of the roof itself with a cantilever type to enable the corners to be fully filled in. This would only make sense if an extra tier was built along with additional facilities, this would be expensive. Liverpools main stand redelopement cost over £100 million.

The other "new" two stands could have their roof truss's supported at a lesser cost but this alone would mean only partial corner filling to be done.

The gaps at the main stand only really have a vertical box configuration available to fill in these spaces but could be integrated with the existing staircase and structure. This, I would suggest could be utilised for corporate and those with disabilities. The opening to the pitch from outside can still be incorporated via a tunnel.
[/QUOTE
An interesting read there thanks.

However what I’ve always wondered about the corners is why can’t they be filled in with 2 separate stand alone constructions from either the Govan or the Copland/ Broomloan stands? There used to be just grass mounds there in the past can’t those current corner constructions be demolished and then new corner ones built without the screens?
 

grascots

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
An interesting read
I have always thought the same. I am an engineer too but not a structural engineer, and this has always frustrated. I think the screen corners could have seats and if the structure can support such large screens then surely a limited amount of seats could be added
 

Blu_ultra

Well-Known Member
I don't see how 5000 season ticket seats will cost the club almost £1M a season, it's not like the current 45k costs £9.5M.
The average ST gross profit is around £300 i think. If you deduct Tax, cost of administering the seats etc we are looking at around 1.5 million per season absolutemax, probably less. Add to that the finance costs, lost revenues etc, it's just not feasible at this time. We need success, cl qualification on a regular basis, big profit on player sales and a far better sponsorship and kit deal before we can do this.
 

LoganBear

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The average ST gross profit is around £300 i think. If you deduct Tax, cost of administering the seats etc we are looking at around 1.5 million per season absolutemax, probably less. Add to that the finance costs, lost revenues etc, it's just not feasible at this time. We need success, cl qualification on a regular basis, big profit on player sales and a far better sponsorship and kit deal before we can do this.
Should we not wait on the feasibility study the club have asked architects/engineers to undertake before deciding if its errrrm feasible?

:cool:
 

Blu_ultra

Well-Known Member
Should we not wait on the feasibility study the club have asked architects/engineers to undertake before deciding if its errrrm feasible?

:cool:
Yes, but Robertson has stated that it would be low 1000s. I'm only going on what he says. Anything is 'feasible' in terms of the possibilities. In terms of Finance - not so much. My opinion is that we'll get 5000k absolute max, probably with a lower of the pitch , seats at the back of the Govan and maybe a balcony where the tvs are.
 

Borna

Well-Known Member
Slight tangent and not sure how accurate or up to date this is but gives pitch dimensions of scottish clubs.


According to this our pitch is 115x78(yards) whereas the tarriers sty is 105x68 - always thought their pitch looks bigger than ours.
Theirs is measured in meters and ours in yards on that link. Both of our pitches are exactly the same size.

IMO we need to maintain as big a pitch as possible for on field purposes. Don't know exactly what's being looked at with this capacity increase, but if it includes making the pitch smaller we have to forget it.

Need to take every advantage we can get when the smaller teams come to Ibrox and park the bus. If we decrease the pitch size it's playing right into their hands. Who knows how many points it will end up costing us over a 10 year spell.
 
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