Taking the knee

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There isn’t a debate to be had around taking the knee. There isn’t scope to play semantics. Our players will take the knee for as long as they see fit. I will support them. If you don’t support them, then our captain, our vice captain and other members of our squad are well entitled to think that you’re racist. And they’d be right.
I support their right to do or say whatever they want, just as I’m happy for people to make up their minds about whether they agree and express that however they see fit, legally of course.

But if those individuals or you yourself called me a racist for simply disagreeing with a political statement, I’d sue you into the middle of your next life. And I’d win.
 
They sated that it was pointless. They sated that they would be stopping taking the knee - and they did for our remaining games last season.

Suddenly they are back doing it.

So it is no real surprise that the public out there are wondering why it is still going on - particularly when the players are on record as saying it's just gesture stuff and yields no benefit - which i agree with.
I reckon most likely is the debate over fans booing the English players doing it brought it to the fore again, especially after the abuse Sancho, Saka and Rashford received after the final.

Since the end of our last league game, our squad was also subjected to a smear campaign that turned into a police investigation manufactured and directed by Scottish government ministers, at least one MSP, and a near-unanimously hostile Scottish media. Non-Scottish, non-protestant players living in this weird little country of ours were labeled as likely anti-Catholic racists over a fake video and Kamara at least was subjected to more racial abuse. So maybe our players noticed that the power of the Scottish establishment being directed at them led to racist abuse, even if white Scottish people didn't notice, and they thought that was worth standing up to.

I think that's it. Nothing sinister. I don't think the kneeling is serving any bigger agenda at this stage. Gestures and slogans can evolve and become diluted and detached from the purpose they originally served or the meaning they had. That's what's happened with kneeling.
 
That's good then .so we all agree with free speech.
Shouldn't be any problem at the game then
It's all about perception/impact.

We can all have our opinions - including being free to have opinions of those people expressing their views and the detriment it does.

That doesn't equate to them not having the right to do it.
 
I don't think anybody booing is automatically racist but they are deliberately hurting our club, why would anyone deliberately hurt the club they claim to support?
I don’t think they are consciously attempting to hurt the club rather than objecting to the gesture of a bad organisation but you are right in that its effect that it will hurt the clubs image. Don’t do it Bears.
 
It's all about perception/impact.

We can all have our opinions - including being free to have opinions of those people expressing their views and the detriment it does.

That doesn't equate to them not having the right to do it.
You would have to question the motives of someone who boos tomorrow. It is clear that the act of booing will be seen as supporting racist views irrespective of the persons reason for disagreeing with the taking the knee gesture. It will also damage the club.

So anyone doing this is doing so in the full knowledge they will damage the club they are supposed to love and secondly will be perceived as an act of support for racist views.

Very hard to see why that would appear sensible to anyone.
 
You would have to question the motives of someone who boos tomorrow. It is clear that the act of booing will be seen as supporting racist views irrespective of the persons reason for disagreeing with the taking the knee gesture. It will also damage the club.

So anyone doing this is doing so in the full knowledge they will damage the club they are supposed to love and secondly will be perceived as an act of support for racist views.

Very hard to see why that would appear sensible to anyone.
People absolutely will question it mate. As I said, it's the perception.

Anyone naive enough to think that doing so has any other impact than creating a highly negative narrative around our club and support isn't very sensible IMHO.

You can be sure they'll be ranting about it afterwards though if there are headlines about it.
 
That's good then .so we all agree with free speech.
Shouldn't be any problem at the game then
Just because you have a right to free speech doesn’t mean you always should exercise that right. Anyone booing our own players over this is no better than a scumbag booing during a minute silence. The damage it could cause the club is immeasurable.
 
I don’t think they are consciously attempting to hurt the club rather than objecting to the gesture of a bad organisation but you are right in that its effect that it will hurt the clubs image. Don’t do it Bears.
The players have on numerous occasions stated why they are taking the knee, no matter what your view on taking the knee is, the people booing our players will be deliberately hurting the club they claim to support
 
There are people calling for action to be taken against folk who may behave differently to themselves tomorrow at the game .That goes past having different views .There will be a reason people boo tomorrow,if it happens.
Im not saying you want anyone banned,but that comment has been chucked about on here
Aye I said it..If you or any other idiot decide to boo the Rangers players taking the knee then I want you identified and ST taken away from you.That good enough for you?
 
After everything those players have done for us, booing them tomorrow for any reason is shameful.

I don't even really get it.

Lets say someone is indeed a full blown racist and hates players taking the knee for that reason. Why the hell are they even going to the match?

I just can't really wrap my head around it.

I can understand why someone might say that taking the knee has a strong link to BLM and they hate BLM so they hate taking the knee. OK. I get it. Maybe they would prefer the players to do something else? How does booing the players achieve that?

So if our players taking the knee is not the preferred gesture then surely booing the players is also easily understood as not the best way to get the point across.

It shows how deeply, deeply, f*cked up some people's relationship with Rangers really is when the players who delivered title number 55 after all we have been through might kick off the season to a round of boos.

Even if it's just 100 or so supporters. That's just insane.
 
You would have to question the motives of someone who boos tomorrow. It is clear that the act of booing will be seen as supporting racist views irrespective of the persons reason for disagreeing with the taking the knee gesture. It will also damage the club.

So anyone doing this is doing so in the full knowledge they will damage the club they are supposed to love and secondly will be perceived as an act of support for racist views.

Very hard to see why that would appear sensible to anyone.
serious question, if the person is booing because they think racialising UK society to be more like the US despite our very different experiences, and they think it would be a genuine catastrophe for us (especially, probably, black youth)…. if that was why they’re booing, do you think it would a) be fair to characterise them as supporting racism and b) right for them to be silenced by secondary considerations like the club’s reputation etc?

In short, what if someone thought the worst way to fight racism was making a contentious gesture that has associations with a highly dubious, race baiting craze?

Don’t we all get to follow our conscience or just some people?
 
Aye I said it..If you or any other idiot decide to boo the Rangers players taking the knee then I want you identified and ST taken away from you.That good enough for you?
Does this go for sectarian singing too?
 
It’s not classed as racism they both are just cobbled together as the same charge.

If you think they are classed the same could you imagine the punishment for a club who’s fans sang about upto their knees in the blood of a derogatory term for black people.

our club was not punished for racism so absolutely stop being disingenuous and trying to portray it that way

Rangers has never and will never have a racism problem
You can argue over the terminology til your blue in the face and you certainly don't need to explain the difference between the racism we've seen our own & other players suffer and what is classed as sectarian singing.

The fact is though, whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not, the UEFA charge for sectarian singing came under their racism rules.

This is how the international media reported it and it's not a great look. I'm not agreeing with it, but you accused someone of being a liar when he said the charge was racism and I'm simply pointing out he wasn't.

 
Does this go for sectarian singing too?
Honestly it should.

Anyone uttering the word "fen!an" or shouting FTP inside Ibrox is a f*cking moron. Especially on a European night.

The debate on certain other songs and phrases can go around and around forever. Those two are the ones UEFA specifically has an issue with.

Its a completely separate issue though.
 
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I live abroad, I don’t attend Ibrox on a regular basis and if I did I would stay quiet because although I don’t support the taking of the knee I don’t think I have ever boo’ed my club.

I still think that in the spirit of Everyone Anyone the club could be an example and be more inclusive by encouraging the players to make a different symbolic gesture. Something we can all get behind.

It doesn’t matter how you justify it, the taking of the knee and what we have witnessed on our screens and in our stadia these past 16 months is forever enmeshed with BLM.

I don’t think there is anything controversial in that statement.
There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't all get behind whatever anti-racist gesture the players wish to make, including taking the knee, if that's what they want to do. If footballers say taking the knee has nothing to do with any organization, I am happy to take them at face value. Most people in the UK nowadays, most people I know, don't give BLM a second thought. A minority actively support them, and another minority are obsessively opposed to it - the latter, for reasons that defy all logic, are willing to tarnish their club and shame its players by booing them before kick off.
 
So just cut out the media middle man.
Dont boo the players.
Instead contact the club and ask them to make an anti-racism gesture before each game just not taking the knee.
Keep on doing that.


Booing the players is the worst possible approach.
And those who are happy with players taking the knee can contact the club and ask them to continue doing it Then, both sides will cancel each other out. Best just to let the players decide, and respect their decision.
 
Just because you have a right to free speech doesn’t mean you always should exercise that right. Anyone booing our own players over this is no better than a scumbag booing during a minute silence. The damage it could cause the club is immeasurable.
Loads of fans of English clubs have boo'ed the taking of the knee so what damage has it caused them? Have they lost Sky money? Shirt sponsor dropped them? What is the damage you speak of?
 
I support their right to do or say whatever they want, just as I’m happy for people to make up their minds about whether they agree and express that however they see fit, legally of course.

But if those individuals or you yourself called me a racist for simply disagreeing with a political statement, I’d sue you into the middle of your next life. And I’d win.

Being anti-racist is not a political statement.
 
Jesus christ.Haven't you listened one bit to what Goldson,Aribo,Defoe amongst others have said.It hurts them. How can you not get that through to your brain.
"The damage it could cause the club is immeasurable."

Is what he said not that Goldson even though he thinks its an empty gesture feels hurt.
 
I'd say claiming folk don't have a clue why they are booing them is way off imo.
I'd say the first part of your post is spot on .As long as the club and every club In the UK who will go with this idea listen to what the fans say.
They are going to have to.
Two reasons.Firstly because the booing isn't going away and they will need a get out clause before it gets too embarrassing for any club . Basically, shifting it onto supporters to dig them out of a hole,so the big bad media can't point the finger at the club itself as some neo Nazi enterprise.

Wait till the grounds are full .A few blokes posting on a MB hinting some fellow fans may be a bit racist isn't going to stop the masses , especially the ones who are lubricated expressing their dislike of what they see as a Marxist organisation polluting football grounds .

Bin it asap and get the kick it out banners out .
Will save a hell of a lot of arguing,carnage and stop a dodgy media bending the truth.
We can only speculate on your first line, but I'd wager if you polled folk observing the booing either by hearing it on TV/Online or in the stadium live that it's unlikely the majority would come back citing the reasons folk are staing on here (Opposing the extremist element of BLM, Marxism, it being ineffective, folk not wanting politics "rammed/forced down their throat").

The issue with the rest is that it is a case of a (minority) element of the support forcing the club into a position where they then have to come back and ask what that element would prefer the black players (who are the victims of the abuse) to do.

It's not shifting the onice onto supporters to get the club out of a hole that is the problem, it's the club being put in a hole by that minority of supporters in the first place.

The players are kneeling before the games. If folk disagree with that and want to suggest alternatives, contact the club and open the discussion constructively without the need to dig a hole, push Rangers into it and then suggest the club is wrong for expecting those same supporters to actually partake in fixing the problem.

In the first instance, the victims of the abuse should be allowed to decide how they wish to express their position. Not have to run it past all these people to have it endorsed as something they are willing to let them do. Kind of defeats the purpose.
 
Why isnt the contentious act simply called kneeling?

It's a perfectly good word.

To me, taking the knee is something that happens in muay thai.
 
You are correct but missing the point.


Sky ditched the #BLM movement back in September as did the EPL. Nobody on here is dipsuting that the #BLM movement is toxic.

However its was fairly common knowledge that the EPL moved away from #BLM. Again if the players were taking the knee for this movement then you would have a fair point.

As been pointed out countless times the knee gesture was just something that was hijacked by said movement. What has also been pointed out on numerous occasions the players themsleves have came out and said it has nothing to do with the political movement.

So now that has been cleared up and the players confirming it's just a simple getsure against racism for them, why then are we still talking about #BLM the toxic political movement?

You cant blame folk far having a go at folks level of intellect here given that the facts have been laid out so clearly. Throw in the context of our own players being racially abused as well and there is no room really for debate is there?

So why be upset?

1. It has nothing to do with #BLM
2. The players are not being forced to do anything
3. The players have publicly stated how much this shit hurts them

Given all of the above why are so many people still finding excuses to be offended by this?
I appreciate the considered response rather than the mud slinging and baseless accusations by others.

Here's my best take on it. When it became obvious that BLM were toxic, there quickly became "brand separation" (for lack of a better term) so as not to tarnish the movement with the toxicity of BLM. Fantastic, the correct strategy from a PR point of view. However they kept the knee gesture. Now we can argue the semantics of how it started, that BLM hijacked it etc, all of which are very valid claims. But what is another valid claim is the knee is now synonymous with BLM as, before 2016 when supporters of BLM used it, it wasn't seen in pop culture, or at least hadn't been seen in decades. Certainly not in my lifetime anyway (80s child).

So the movement in football to effect social change ditched everything to do with BLM except what was arguably the most recognisable gesture. That is a mistake. The players can distance themselves from BLM as much as they like, they are still using a gesture which is seen by many as toxic. The problem is now both sides have become entrenched which is causing more division and dilluting the whole point of the gesture. So there's two possible best case scenarios going forward....

Best case if the kneeing continues: the people booing stop doing it but are raging inside that the gesture is still being used. No one booing currently is going to change their opinion on the knee, it's naive to think so. It will continue to be a divisive gesture.

Best case if the kneeing changes to a different gesture: the people booing start applauding and get behind the movement. All the distractions of booing and explaining why they're kneeing can end and then the actual issues become the topic of discussion.

If you truly want to get behind the players in this, which is the most desirable outcome?
 
Clubs down south aren,t under the microscope like we are up here.
Of course they are more so in England due to black English players being abused recently.

Im just trying to understand what immeasurable damage it could cause the club you guys are speaking of as its not damaged the English clubs as far as im aware?
 
We can only speculate on your first line, but I'd wager if you polled folk observing the booing either by hearing it on TV/Online or in the stadium live that it's unlikely the majority would come back citing the reasons folk are staing on here (Opposing the extremist element of BLM, Marxism, it being ineffective, folk not wanting politics "rammed/forced down their throat").

The issue with the rest is that it is a case of a (minority) element of the support forcing the club into a position where they then have to come back and ask what that element would prefer the black players (who are the victims of the abuse) to do.

It's not shifting the onice onto supporters to get the club out of a hole that is the problem, it's the club being put in a hole by that minority of supporters in the first place.

The players are kneeling before the games. If folk disagree with that and want to suggest alternatives, contact the club and open the discussion constructively without the need to dig a hole, push Rangers into it and then suggest the club is wrong for expecting those same supporters to actually partake in fixing the problem.

In the first instance, the victims of the abuse should be allowed to decide how they wish to express their position. Not have to run it past all these people to have it endorsed as something they are willing to let them do. Kind of defeats the purpose.
It'd be a piss weak protest if they changed to suit the people they're protesting against.
 
serious question, if the person is booing because they think racialising UK society to be more like the US despite our very different experiences, and they think it would be a genuine catastrophe for us (especially, probably, black youth)…. if that was why they’re booing, do you think it would a) be fair to characterise them as supporting racism and b) right for them to be silenced by secondary considerations like the club’s reputation etc?

In short, what if someone thought the worst way to fight racism was making a contentious gesture that has associations with a highly dubious, race baiting craze?

Don’t we all get to follow our conscience or just some people?
What you or I think is irrelevant. It is what the perception will be in the media. Any booing will be mercilessly used by our enemies twisted and used against by a willing MSM in Scotland.

Equally doesn’t matter if it is fair or not. It is the reality of the situation. Anyone thinking differently is delusional.

If you want to protest for your view point do it in a way that might at least have a chance of success.
 
It'd be a piss weak protest if they changed to suit the people they're protesting against.
I'm all for folk constructively trying to find the most productive and shared way to tackle the issue.

I'm quite cynical about the chances of getting one that doesn't have people calling it out under any of the kinds of reasons being thrown at taking the knee. There's not even a consensus on why folk don't agree with it.

I'm interested to hear what folk think could replace it that would actually be universally accepted without any dissent, because if there's dissent/disagreement about any of those suggestions they presumably have to be stopped as well because we can't just ignore the divisiveness of the next gesture.

All the while, we have players who simply want to keep the topic highlighted via a simple, peaceful and non-disruptive gesture who are meant to ditch it to suit folk who don't want them to do it.
 
Jesus christ.Haven't you listened one bit to what Goldson,Aribo,Defoe amongst others have said.It hurts them. How can you not get that through to your brain.
Anyone that seen Goldson’s reaction to the Kamara abuse and doesn’t understand the hurt caused clearly doesn’t want to understand.
 
I'm all for folk constructively trying to find the most productive and shared way to tackle the issue.

I'm quite cynical about the chances of getting one that doesn't have people calling it out under any of the kinds of reasons being thrown at taking the knee. There's not even a consensus on why folk don't agree with it.

I'm interested to hear what folk think could replace it that would actually be universally accepted without any dissent, because if there's dissent/disagreement about any of those suggestions they presumably have to be stopped as well because we can't just ignore the divisiveness of the next gesture.

All the while, we have players who simply want to keep the topic highlighted via a simple, peaceful and non-disruptive gesture who are meant to ditch it to suit folk who don't want them to do it.

the previous display was a once a season "hold a giant red card up"
which a lot of people didn't see as it was pre-kick off
probably sky missed a lot of them by going to adverts

by taking a knee right before the whistle - its visible
sky even add in the commentary "in the continued fight against racism"
 
Jesus christ.Haven't you listened one bit to what Goldson,Aribo,Defoe amongst others have said.It hurts them. How can you not get that through to your brain.
Goldson, pictured, posted a screenshot of a reply to his initial post on Instagram suggesting the player should “leave our club ASAP” although it is not certain the account belongs to a genuine Rangers supporter.

Goldson has issued a strong message to those unhappy with his stance – and that of the Rangers team and staff. He posted another photograph of him taking a knee while clenching a raised right fist. “Let’s try again,” he said. “The hate and ignorance in the comments of the last picture 
were disgusting but not surprising. This isn’t about politics it’s about equality!!! We all need educating, myself included!” The centre-half added later: “I’m not doing this for attention, or for anyone to feel sorry for me. But these are fans of OUR club. I know it’s a minority and I’m not suggesting otherwise, however as a majority who stand by us we need to make a stand to be heard.
“What I will say is players see these comments and they hurt us!”


Goldson as you will all be aware hasn't renewed his contract with the club. I'm sure booing him while he takes the knee as an anti-racism gesture will convince him he should stay.
 
the previous display was a once a season "hold a giant red card up"
which a lot of people didn't see as it was pre-kick off
probably sky missed a lot of them by going to adverts

by taking a knee right before the whistle - its visible
sky even add in the commentary "in the continued fight against racism"
How do you overcome those who object to "having politics rammed down their throat when they just want to watch the football"? or who say "this doesn't belong in a football stadium"?
 
Clubs down south aren,t under the microscope like we are up here.
That’s the crux of the matter for me & that’s why IMO the fans inside should just let it happen without boos. As for the teams in the EPL (or anywhere else) I hope the BLM gesture gets plenty of audible disapproval form the stands.
Hope this nonsense stops & players back ‘Show Racism The Red Card’, ‘Kick It Out’ campaigns instead.
 
I see some people are still not getting this so let’s make it simple.

1.
If you disagree with some of the political aspects of the BLM ORGANISATION - Absolutely fine, I do too. Probably a discussion for another forum though.

2.
If you think players taking the knee is somehow connected to the above - You are mistaken and should go read what black players/pundits/celebrities have said about this.

3.
If after all that, you still think there is a connection between the two - You are either a moron or wilfully ignorant and should have a real think about your pre-conceived biases and morals.

4.
If you boo (or defend those booing) the players taking a knee - You are a racist. No ifs, no buts, you are a racist.
 
technically it is but people don’t boo “Kick It Out”. Go figure

Kick it out/SRTRC was a once a year, largely ignored gesture that gets little media coverage, less TV coverage at the game

at least half our stadium is either outside or in the concourse during that display
 
Kick it out/SRTRC was a once a year, largely ignored gesture that gets little media coverage, less TV coverage at the game

at least half our stadium is either outside or in the concourse during that display
I dont think we are a racist crowd ive not heard any racism in Ibrox since the 90s.

19th Century Terrorists are not a race before someone again gleefully brings up UEFA doing us for racism!
 
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