Taking the knee

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TheDerryend said:
Still no one wants to challenge the biggest problem of the lot. Social media.

That's where it's all coming from. Yes it maybe 2021, but this last few years have seen a significant rise in division. When c**nts are being paid money in Macedonia to make up bullshit and cause all this grief, what are the sm companies doing about this, who's actually paying these guys would be somewhere to start.

I'm afraid we're now entering a phase of out and out hatred that goebels would have been proud of. I'm getting to the point of hardly trusting anyone on the web now.
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You are right in a lot of what you say. Social media is what it is. Like everything that has the power to do good it also has the power to cause harm. We cant be responsible for that and cant control it. we can do something about what happens in Ibrox and how we behave in and around the stadium.

That will be a significant and powerful message if we get it right.
 
CoopBlue said:
If there was better communication coming out the club, things could be clarified better.

We were all told that the team were fed up with the knee stuff......and now they are doing it again.

What has changed since the end of last season ? That's a crucial point and would at least give the fans a perspective on the whole situation. When you do something, then you diss it and then you start doing it again, is it any wonder fans are questioning the whole thing ? I mean, how long before they maybe start dissing it again ??
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Might be a response to what happened at the Euros with the England team? That's all I can think of.
 
GodStruth said:
Fair enough, but its not really your place to tell racially abused sportsmen how to protest
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The vast majority of racial abuse players receive is on Social Media Platforms with the vast majority of the posts coming from outside The UK. Racial abuse is disgusting and nobody should be facing it in 2021 but the players aren't facing any racist abuse doing their day to day job in Scotland which is playing football. When was the last time any of our players were abused at a football stadium in Scotland, ie their place of work?

The Knee is clearly a divisive gesture no matter what people try to say as polls show and booing all over stadiums in the UK with fans in it since returning have showed.

Blaming the fans in the stadium is totally barking up the wrong tree when the vast majority of abuse is coming from bots on Social Media. The protests should be against Social Media Companies who refuse to police and regulate their platforms which give the racists and bots the platform to spread their hate and bile. If all the players and sports stars around the world started advising their fans to delete Twitter, Instagram and Facebook you would see the Big Tech Companies change their stance overnight and actually do something about the hatred and bile that gets openly spread on their platforms.
 
Coop1872 said:
Might be a response to what happened at the Euros with the England team? That's all I can think of.
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I think there’s a good shout it is that.

Regardless they shouldn’t need to explain themselves. If that’s what they want to do then the fans should support them on it. If the directors and Steven Gerrard are giving them their undivided support then we can too.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
The vast majority of racial abuse players receive is on Social Media Platforms with the vast majority of the posts coming from outside The UK. Racial abuse is disgusting and nobody should be facing it in 2021 but the players aren't facing any racist abuse doing their day to day job in Scotland which is playing football. When was the last time any of our players were abused at a football stadium in Scotland, ie their place of work?

The Knee is clearly a divisive gesture no matter what people try to say as polls show and booing all over stadiums in the UK with fans in it since returning have showed.

Blaming the fans in the stadium is totally barking up the wrong tree when the vast majority of abuse is coming from bots on Social Media. The protests should be against Social Media Companies who refuse to police and regulate their platforms which give the racists and bots the platform to spread their hate and bile. If all the players and sports stars around the world started advising their fans to delete Twitter, Instagram and Facebook you would see the Big Tech Companies change their stance overnight and actually do something about the hatred and bile that gets openly spread on their platforms.
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All fair enough, but they're not protesting about the origin of the abuse, just the abuse itself, no matter where and how it comes about.

And for the record some of our players HAVE received racial abuse inside Scottish football stadia
 
footballhead said:
I’ve been on FF since the days of the old, old board. Plenty of folk on here know me personally.

I stopped posting a while back when the new board started and I lost access to the lounge - kinda couldn’t be arsed getting the post count back up.

can I ask, is there anything about my posts that are even remotely suspicious?

edit: the reason I’ve have stated posting here is I think this could be a worrying watershed for the club if we don’t get our act together.

also, if you doubt I’m a Rangers fan, I’m in the photo in my profile pic.
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I just found it a bit odd that after we won 55 you never posted and are only in this thread I think any member would think the same.
You have been on forums a while you say and I'm sure you have noticed things like this as well.
 
Northhiglander said:
You are right in a lot of what you say. Social media is what it is. Like everything that has the power to do good it also has the power to cause harm. We cant be responsible for that and cant control it. we can do something about what happens in Ibrox and how we behave in and around the stadium.

That will be a significant and powerful message if we get it right.
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This is far as I go with social media. A look at some of the links on here to twitter have proved it to be a wise decision.

I'll be honest mate, I'd need to win the lottery to go back to the football, but to be honest i prefer watching it with my mates now. Bottle of russian standard and that's good enough for me.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
The vast majority of racial abuse players receive is on Social Media Platforms with the vast majority of the posts coming from outside The UK. Racial abuse is disgusting and nobody should be facing it in 2021 but the players aren't facing any racist abuse doing their day to day job in Scotland which is playing football. When was the last time any of our players were abused at a football stadium in Scotland, ie their place of work?

The Knee is clearly a divisive gesture no matter what people try to say as polls show and booing all over stadiums in the UK with fans in it since returning have showed.

Blaming the fans in the stadium is totally barking up the wrong tree when the vast majority of abuse is coming from bots on Social Media. The protests should be against Social Media Companies who refuse to police and regulate their platforms which give the racists and bots the platform to spread their hate and bile. If all the players and sports stars around the world started advising their fans to delete Twitter, Instagram and Facebook you would see the Big Tech Companies change their stance overnight and actually do something about the hatred and bile that gets openly spread on their platforms.
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seriously?
 
QR codes linking people to their seats, fewer people in so easier to identify with the advanced CCTV that was installed, should hopefully result in a good few bannings for the racists that boo. Plenty of people on the mygers waiting list happy to take the seats, we don’t need the people happy to drag Rangers’ name through the mud because they are too stupid to understand what is being protested.

if you hear anyone booing i’m sure a call post match to the fan hotline will make it easy for the security team to locate and ban these people.

Everyone, anyone. Except self serving morons who don’t care for our club or brand.
 
GodStruth said:
All fair enough, but they're not protesting about the origin of the abuse, just the abuse itself, no matter where and how it comes about.

And for the record some of our players HAVE received racial abuse inside Scottish football stadia
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Agreed mate but the abuse has been very sporadic (not that, that makes it ok). No doubt with a drunk, coked up ned. Identify these c*nts and ban them from football stadia for life.

The origin of the abuse is the key point though. The media spent a full week after the England Players got abused creating the narrative a culture war was happening in the UK and totally ignored that 98% of the abusive posts made to the players came from outside the UK. The UK is not a racist country in the slightest and I think many people are pissed off with the narrative being rammed down their throats.

The US has it's own problems and is in no way similar to our society.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Agreed mate but the abuse has been very sporadic (not that, that makes it ok). No doubt with a drunk, coked up ned. Identify these c*nts and ban them from football stadia for life.

The origin of the abuse is the key point though. The media spent a full week after the England Players got abused creating the narrative a culture war was happening in the UK and totally ignored that 98% of the abusive posts made to the players came from outside the UK. The UK is not a racist country in the slightest and I think many people are pissed off with the narrative being rammed down their throats.

The US has it's own problems and is in no way similar to our society.
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Should the players only protest against racism in a country perceived to have a greater racism problem? So European games but not domestically?
 
Teddyjohn said:
Should the players only protest against racism in a country perceived to have a greater racism problem? So European games but not domestically?
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I don't think it's a football problem to solve. It's a society issue and racism only disappears with education, attidues changing and time. I'd say we have already made great strides towards that in society in recent decades and it will die out over the next generation or two.

Will football start to become involved in protesting against all of societys issues? Who gets to choose what topics the players are allowed to protest against? What about protests every game about the slave labour in China and the treatment of Uyghur Muslims? Protests soon about Climate Change at the football?

All of this stuff has just opened up a can of worms. Most people just like to watch sport or go to the football so they can switch off from all the other sh*te that's going on around the world.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
I don't think it's a football problem to solve. It's a society issue and racism only disappears with education, attidues changing and time. I'd say we have already made great strides towards that in society in recent decades and it will die out over the next generation or two.

Will football start to become involved in protesting against all of societys issues? Who gets to choose what topics the players are allowed to protest against? What about protests every game about the slave labour in China and the treatment of Uyghur Muslims? Protests soon about Climate Change at the football?

All of this stuff has just opened up a can of worms. Most people just like to watch sport or go to the football so they can switch off from all the other sh*te that's going on around the world.
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At the end of the day mate it’s a five to ten second gesture that has absolutely no bearing on your life or anyone else’s that’s in the ground. If our board and our manager are 100% supportive of it then there is absolutely no reason why the Rangers fans can’t do the same. These players deserve that.
 
I'm a Birmingham fan mate ,who doesn't go much these days.
It's not reflective in Black players singing a contract.
It's about co ordinating a way of doing something which isn't overtly political and can get everyone onside.
There will be players throughout the length of the UK who have felt forced to do the knee.They'd look bad if they didn't.Read Lyle Taylor's take on it .

I personally thought Millwall,when they held the banner from' kick it out 'up did it the right way.Not one boo.

Teams like Millwall are forever being labelled racists.By white middle class liberals from somewhere like Bath.When the reality is anyone from the old Bushwhackers firm would have grown up on S.E London estates with people with different skin colours.
Less grandstanding by the media would go a long way .
GodStruth said:
Indeed, but dont come crying when Rangers are dragged through the gutter, again, because some of our followers have embarrassed themselves

Dont come crying if Kamara decides to leavevor Goldson doesnt sign a new contract

Dont come crying if we draw against Livingston because of the effect on the players

Dont come crying if you lose your season ticket
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Drumchapel-Bear said:
The vast majority of racial abuse players receive is on Social Media Platforms with the vast majority of the posts coming from outside The UK. Racial abuse is disgusting and nobody should be facing it in 2021 but the players aren't facing any racist abuse doing their day to day job in Scotland which is playing football. When was the last time any of our players were abused at a football stadium in Scotland, ie their place of work?

The Knee is clearly a divisive gesture no matter what people try to say as polls show and booing all over stadiums in the UK with fans in it since returning have showed.

Blaming the fans in the stadium is totally barking up the wrong tree when the vast majority of abuse is coming from bots on Social Media. The protests should be against Social Media Companies who refuse to police and regulate their platforms which give the racists and bots the platform to spread their hate and bile. If all the players and sports stars around the world started advising their fans to delete Twitter, Instagram and Facebook you would see the Big Tech Companies change their stance overnight and actually do something about the hatred and bile that gets openly spread on their platforms.
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If people really want to help reign it in, boycott their platforms till they do something about it.

If 150 young men and teenagers are being paid to spread shite from macedonia, then there's your real problem.

Do this and you'll see immediate action taken by these companies. That will be a huge part of it taken away for a start.
 
TheDerryend said:
I've worked next to many black people, especially in amazon. Cant say I've witnessed any, in fact people were mixing and getting on well enough.

You'll need to explain this a bit more. Is it in your work? Have you experienced it?
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As I said "in a workplace - someplace".
Companies like Amazon are going to be super strict and have a zero tolerance policy on racism.
Apparently they are renowned for their diversity and inclusion goals.
There is plenty of evidence that not all workplaces are making the same effort.
Here is a link to a TUC report on racism in the workplace.
www.manchester.ac.uk

Racism is still a huge problem in UK’s workplaces, finds report

A shocking report has found that the majority of ethnic minority workers have experienced racial harassment at work in the last five years, and have been subjected to unfair treatment by their employer because of their race. October 2018 marked the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of...
www.manchester.ac.uk www.manchester.ac.uk
I'm also in mind of the 'casual' racism that minorities face in the service sector. I have witnessed racial abuse directed at take away workers first hand.
 
The support manage to not boo players crossing themselves and I'm certain a chunk of the support don't support the vatican and catholic church.

Sky will have their microphones and volume up to eleven tomorrow.

Why can't people grasp the damage they'll do to the club, regardless of their views?
 
DT1872 said:
The support manage to not boo players crossing themselves and I'm certain a chunk of the support don't support the vatican and catholic church.

Sky will have their microphones and volume up to eleven tomorrow.

Why can't people grasp the damage they'll do to the club, regardless of their views?
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Couple of good points there.
 
Do the players really know?

I guarantee you now,some will have done it so they don't appear racist.

Then black players doing the salute.If they totally knew what they were doing they wouldn't do it .
It's about equality not power .
Bluenose1979 said:
The public aren't wondering why it's still going on. Let's actualy be honest about what people understand instead of finding ways to feign confusion and ignore the message.

Every single person discussing this and in the stands knows exactly why the players take the knee when they do it. The players have been quoted umpteen times here alone on exactly why they do it.

Nobody is standing around and honestly not knowing the reasons the players are on their knee prior to a match.

The only issue is folk who either decide that they don't accept the players' own explanation of why it is or folk who outright oppose them and the message.

Taking a knee doesn't end racism and nobody expects that to be the actual result. Taking the knee is indicating that the issue is still there and as long as we are talking about it it is doing its job by keeping the topic highlighted.

The only people who can actually end racism are the folk partaking in it and until the rest of us all get behind the message that has even less chance of happening.

Quibbling and bickering over the historical or political significance of the specific gesture they choose is a distraction far more empty than the gesture itself and simply becomes a means of not actually talking about the real issue.
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andygray said:
As I said "in a workplace - someplace".
Companies like Amazon are going to be super strict and have a zero tolerance policy on racism.
Apparently they are renowned for their diversity and inclusion goals.
There is plenty of evidence that not all workplaces are making the same effort.
Here is a link to a TUC report on racism in the workplace.
www.manchester.ac.uk

Racism is still a huge problem in UK’s workplaces, finds report

A shocking report has found that the majority of ethnic minority workers have experienced racial harassment at work in the last five years, and have been subjected to unfair treatment by their employer because of their race. October 2018 marked the fiftieth anniversary of the introduction of...
www.manchester.ac.uk www.manchester.ac.uk
I'm also in mind of the 'casual' racism that minorities face in the service sector. I have witnessed racial abuse directed at take away workers first hand.
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Well I can only go on my own experience and I know that amazon wont tolerate it, but nobody needed told.

The only people who we were pissed off at were the ones coming round checking on our numbers. All of us, no matter what race were agreed on that.
 
CoopBlue said:
If there was better communication coming out the club, things could be clarified better.

We were all told that the team were fed up with the knee stuff......and now they are doing it again.

What has changed since the end of last season ? That's a crucial point and would at least give the fans a perspective on the whole situation. When you do something, then you diss it and then you start doing it again, is it any wonder fans are questioning the whole thing ? I mean, how long before they maybe start dissing it again ??
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There's that Malcolm Tucker quote coming to mind again.
 
In my opinion,the best way to eradicate racism is obviously to educate that thinking you are better than someone else because of your skin colour is wrong.
Then mix with people,work with people.Talk to people.
I'm afraid this State imposed forcing beliefs onto people won't work.The state can only ask for tolerance.They can't force you to like people.
At Birmingham years ago ,when the Zulus were born ,that probably did more for anti racism than any amount of leafletting or speeches by political leaders.Frank Bruno was another one.white kids decided to follow FB not because it was politically correct,But because we liked him and saw us in him.Lads off council estates identified with him.

They can push this BLM stuff as much as they like ,it ain't the answer.Its actually caused friction in a few football firms who have many shades in them.
 
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jtc said:
Do the players really know?

I guarantee you now,some will have done it so they don't appear racist.

Then black players doing the salute.If they totally knew what they were doing they wouldn't do it .
It's about equality not power .
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You're guaranteeing something on their behalf that you simply can't.

The players have said why they are doing it. The public seeing them know why they are doing it.
 
Are any of the guys muddying the waters and trying their very best to justify the booing actually going to Ibrox tomorrow?
 
jtc said:
Ok .Point taken.

IMO then
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Then that is on them. Personally I trust the manager and the players when they say everyone at the club is behind them and the message.

The point remains very simple - the players and staff of the club who take the knee have made it absolutely clear why THEY do it. Anyone playing dumb or conflating it with other issues is missing the point massively.
 
Noddy said:
I've not seen a single poster on this thread say they are planning to boo.
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There was one that said he would boo. Maybe his post was deleted in the same manner my reply to your question and insinuation was earlier.
 
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jtc said:
Im not sure if anybody has said they are booing, people may be arguing that it's people's right to boo and not have political stuff forced down their throats
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There's that "forced down their throats" remark again. It's an idiotic statement.

In what sense is anything being "forced down anyone's throats"? The players themselves spend a few seconds on one knee prior to kick-off. They don't shout, scream, dance or ask anyone else does it. It is entirely peaceful and non-disruptive.

Anyone suggesting this is politics being "forced down their throats" comes across as exceptionally uncomfortable with the topic being even remotely visible, rather than having a genuinely valid concern over the gesture. It's an issue in football grounds, it's happened in football and continues to do so as the players have told us. To tell them they can't highlight it in the same arenas in which it occurs is beyond sinister quite frankly - especially when all they are doing is going down on a knee for a few seconds and asking nothing of anyone else.

It's hysterical language that again (probably deliberately) mis-represents the gesture and message entirely.
 
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Bluenose1979 said:
Then that is on them. Personally I trust the manager and the players when they say everyone at the club is behind them and the message.

The point remains very simple - the players and staff of the club who take the knee have made it absolutely clear why THEY do it. Anyone playing dumb or conflating it with other issues is missing the point massively.
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Read Kyle Taylor's view .He's mixed race ( he calls himself that).
 
No matter what you think about taking the knee, booing the players will only hurt the club, if you deliberately want to hurt the club you shouldn't be going to watch us
 
jtc said:
Read Kyle Taylor's view .He's mixed race ( he calls himself that).
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And he's entitled to take his own stance and have his own views.

Provide a shred of evidence that any Rangers player is being forced or pressured into doing this and are unhappy about it.

Too many of these kinds of views come up trying to build a case against it based "somebody MUST be doing this against their will", "Some of them MUST disagree with it and just be scared not to". It's invented by folk trying to undermine it and without anything to back it up.
 
All your opinion.Not facts
Bluenose1979 said:
There's that "forced down their throats" remark again. It's an idiotic statement.

In what sense is anything being "forced down anyone's throats"? The players themselves spend a few seconds on one knee prior to kick-off. They don't shout, scream, dance or ask anyone else does it. It is entirely peaceful and non-disruptive.

Anyone suggesting this is politicis being "forced down their throats" comes across as exceptionally uncomfortable with the topic being even remotely visible, rather than having a genuinely valid concern over the gesture. It's an issue in football grounds, it's happened in football and continues to do so as the players have told us. To tell them they can't highlight it in the same arenas in which it occurs is beyond sinister quite frankly - especially when all they are doing is going down on a knee for a few seconds and asking nothing of anyone else.

It's hysterical language that again (probably deliberately) mis-represents the gesture and message entirely.
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Perhaps people don't want this when they go to a game.
Shall we take the knee before work?Or before Simple Minds start their set on their next tour?
Nobodies uncomfortable talking about it on here .What's happening is you are trying to de platform other people's views .
I havnt said they can't highlight their views .I think it's not the best thing to do but I haven't said they can't.
But you are saying other people can't register their displeasure .
I see many people per day due to my work.One of my customers and one of my best mates ,they are the only people who think taking the knee does any good.Believe me ,most people I know think it's at best ineffective or worse counter productive.
I urge you again.Read Kyle Taylor's view on it
 
jtc said:
All your opinion.Not facts

Perhaps people don't want this when they go to a game.
Shall we take the knee before work?Or before Simple Minds start their set on their next tour?
Nobodies uncomfortable talking about it on here .What's happening is you are trying to de platform other people's views .
I havnt said they can't highlight their views .I think it's not the best thing to do but I haven't said they can't.
But you are saying other people can't register their displeasure .
I see many people per day due to my work.One of my customers and one of my best mates ,they are the only people who think taking the knee does any good.Believe me ,most people I know think it's at best ineffective or worse counter productive.
I urge you again.Read Kyle Taylor's view on it
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Can you refer to what is my opinion and not facts?

People not wanting it when they go to a game changes literally nothing about what I said.

Show me where I said folk can't voice their displeasure. You can't accuse folk of deplatforming other folks views as a defence of saying players shouldn't be taking the knee and folk in stadiums not wanting politics forced down their throats.
 
Bluenose1979 said:
And he's entitled to take his own stance and have his own views.

Provide a shred of evidence that any Rangers player is being forced or pressured into doing this and are unhappy about it.

Too many of these kinds of views come up trying to build a case against it based "somebody MUST be doing this against their will", "Some of them MUST disagree with it and just be scared not to". It's invented by folk trying to undermine it and without anything to back it up.
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Why would I find evidence of Rangers players being forced ? It's a UK thing not one tiny part of Glasgow.
Being forced and feeling you may be out on a limb if you don't do something maybe be different but will bring the same results.
Players in general ain't going to say anything because they would feel the media turn the heat on them .
Seems Kyle Taylor disagreed
 
footballhead said:
There’s a chance that we’ll play Slavia Prague in the next round.

imagine what Kamara will think if we boo him kneeling in front of Kudela.

just think about it for a moment. That’s how insane the whole notion of booing is.
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Also this: here's a brief list of people who would be deservedly booed by Rangers fans if or when they came to Ibrox:
Leigh Griffiths - got in trouble for racism
Scott Brown - wanker
Kudela - racist
James Dornan - indirectly stoked racism towards Kamara
Humza Yousaf - as with Dornan
Michael Stewart - "where's the evidence of racism?"

Why then would any Rangers fan then subject Rangers players to the same contemptuous treatment, and seconds before a game starts?
 
jtc said:
All your opinion.Not facts

Perhaps people don't want this when they go to a game.
Shall we take the knee before work?Or before Simple Minds start their set on their next tour?
Nobodies uncomfortable talking about it on here .What's happening is you are trying to de platform other people's views .
I havnt said they can't highlight their views .I think it's not the best thing to do but I haven't said they can't.
But you are saying other people can't register their displeasure .
I see many people per day due to my work.One of my customers and one of my best mates ,they are the only people who think taking the knee does any good.Believe me ,most people I know think it's at best ineffective or worse counter productive.
I urge you again.Read Kyle Taylor's view on it
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Cool story bro.

The victims of racial abuse and their colleagues have decided that's what they're doing, so what you and your social circle think about it really doesn't matter.
 
jtc said:
Why would I find evidence of Rangers players being forced ? It's a UK thing not one tiny part of Glasgow.
Being forced and feeling you may be out on a limb if you don't do something maybe be different but will bring the same results.
Players in general ain't going to say anything because they would feel the media turn the heat on them .
Seems Kyle Taylor disagreed
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We are on here discussing Rangers players taking the knee and our support's reaction to it. That is what the thread is about.
 
I live abroad, I don’t attend Ibrox on a regular basis and if I did I would stay quiet because although I don’t support the taking of the knee I don’t think I have ever boo’ed my club.

I still think that in the spirit of Everyone Anyone the club could be an example and be more inclusive by encouraging the players to make a different symbolic gesture. Something we can all get behind.

It doesn’t matter how you justify it, the taking of the knee and what we have witnessed on our screens and in our stadia these past 16 months is forever enmeshed with BLM.

I don’t think there is anything controversial in that statement.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
I sympathise with anyone going to the game tomorrow who's sat near these f*cking losers. Sensible Rangers fans shouldn't have to risk putting themselves in bother just because some reprobate near them can't show a shred of decency for a few seconds.
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Fair enough, I suppose anyone booing the knee will be ignorant enough to try defend it also. If anyone around me is booing they will certainly hear my displeasure. Embarrassing.
 
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